Advocacy & Safety - Right turning vehicles

Im pretty comfortable riding in traffic, but there is a situation that I am confused about what to do and it comes up every now and then.

Im coming up to a light, could be two or three narrow lanes in both directions. The right hand lane is designated a straight and right turn lane, so thats where I am, right in the middle of that lane. A car comes up behind me and wants to turn right. Many times they get pretty cranky and start honking non-stop. But if I was a another car or motorcycle going straight they would be stuck as well. The only way for me to let them pass is for me get off my bike and move on to the white line dividing the lanes.
What do you do, just sit there while they keep honking and ignore them or move over.

ignore the idiots and ride. they'll get over it.

if they don't, i'll slow down.

at intersections with sufficient wide RT/thru lanes, it is considerate for the bicyclist to pull up to the LEFT side of the lane, to provide cars behind the opportunity to turn right on red if the motorist feels able to get around. certainely not required but its considerate if there's enough lane width and the bicyclist feels safe doing so.

but in front of cars at traffic and they honk, turn around, smile and wave.

at intersections with sufficient wide RT/thru lanes, it is considerate for the bicyclist to pull up to the LEFT side of the lane, to provide cars behind the opportunity to turn right on red if the motorist feels able to get around. certainely not required but its considerate if there's enough lane width and the bicyclist feels safe doing so.

Right (pun not intended! :D )

The thing is, cars going straight but stopped in a RT/straight lane can't move to the side even if they wanted to. On a bike, you can, and the drivers behind you know it.

So, if you're taking the lane here, you're effectively choosing to impede them, which is why they find it so aggravating.

at intersections with sufficient wide RT/thru lanes, it is considerate for the bicyclist to pull up to the LEFT side of the lane, to provide cars behind the opportunity to turn right on red if the motorist feels able to get around. certainely not required but its considerate if there's enough lane width and the bicyclist feels safe doing so.

but in front of cars at traffic and they honk, turn around, smile and wave.

That is basically my move...

Aaron:)

at intersections with sufficient wide RT/thru lanes, it is considerate for the bicyclist to pull up to the LEFT side of the lane, to provide cars behind the opportunity to turn right on red if the motorist feels able to get around. certainely not required but its considerate if there's enough lane width and the bicyclist feels safe doing so.

but in front of cars at traffic and they honk, turn around, smile and wave.

Yep.:thumb:

I pack a .45 in my jersey pocket where the outline is very prominent. No problems.

Actually, staying to the left IN the lane would be the right move. Know that when the light changes, so does your status.

I would wave a big, happy wave to them, and stay in place. If you wouldn't move in your car, don't move on your bike.

at intersections with sufficient wide RT/thru lanes, it is considerate for the bicyclist to pull up to the LEFT side of the lane, to provide cars behind the opportunity to turn right on red if the motorist feels able to get around. certainely not required but its considerate if there's enough lane width and the bicyclist feels safe doing so.

but in front of cars at traffic and they honk, turn around, smile and wave.

Correct but....

A couple times I've had drivers pass me on the right in the intersection when I've offered them this kindness. This is stupid, illegal and rude on their part, but it does happen occasionally. I just try to be aware of the possibility.

Correct but....

A couple times I've had drivers pass me on the right in the intersection when I've offered them this kindness. This is stupid, illegal and rude on their part, but it does happen occasionally. I just try to be aware of the possibility.

This has happened to me exactly twice in 100k miles / 160k km of cycling. I guard against it by positioning myself strategically, providing just enough room for right-turners to squeeze slowly past on my right. I realize some VC purists will object, but if I can do so without impeding pedestrians, I am not above stopping past the limit line, i.e., within the crosswalk area.

I also glance back at the first car behind me. If it is hugging the curb with the right turn signal flashing, I try to be polite and move left. No turn signal -- no special courtesy from me.

What do you do, just sit there while they keep honking and ignore them or move over.

Point at the red light, then look at the driver as if he/she must be the stupidest moron on the planet.

most times i just chill on the right curb - usually about a half car length back - that leaves me in a comfy place to rest - not out in the middle of all that traffic, everyone checking out my fine curves - and it leaves cars plenty of room to turn right.

if there are two lanes, i'll sometimes just stay in the left lane - the non-right-turning lane. take my place just like a car.

i have done the 'move to the left a bit or into the crosswalk' thing, but it's a major pain in the ass because then you're blocking the right-turning car's view of oncoming traffic, etc. forget that. riding can be tough enough.

i say, all things considered, my general strategy is the best - plant yourself a half car length back on the right curb.

Very few drivers in Hawaii use turn signals.

If a driver is courteous enough to actually follow the law and signal the turn at least 100 feet before the intersection, I make room for them.

Most times what happens, is the driver does not use a turn signal, so I take the center of the lane. The driver will pull up behind me and wait a couple of seconds and then turn the signal on. They get to wait for the green light.

i have done the 'move to the left a bit or into the crosswalk' thing, but it's a major pain in the ass because then you're blocking the right-turning car's view of oncoming traffic, etc. forget that. riding can be tough enough.

The "move to the left a bit" part would work better if you stayed back a bit, roughly even with the straight-traveling car on your left rear quarter.

Parking at the curb like you do works fine, IMO, although there are a few militant VC'ers that will yell at you for "cowering in fear".. :rolleyes:

at intersections with sufficient wide RT/thru lanes, it is considerate for the bicyclist to pull up to the LEFT side of the lane, to provide cars behind the opportunity to turn right on red if the motorist feels able to get around. certainely not required but its considerate if there's enough lane width and the bicyclist feels safe doing so.

but in front of cars at traffic and they honk, turn around, smile and wave.
I'll even do that in my car if I can pull far enough left to have comfortable space on either side, but agree with the "you honk = you wait".

at intersections with sufficient wide RT/thru lanes, it is considerate for the bicyclist to pull up to the LEFT side of the lane, to provide cars behind the opportunity to turn right on red if the motorist feels able to get around. certainely not required but its considerate if there's enough lane width and the bicyclist feels safe doing so.

but in front of cars at traffic and they honk, turn around, smile and wave.

+1 Either go to the left and let them turn right (my usual manouver) or take the lane (this is what I do if there is someone ahead who is not signalling right and 'looks like they're going straight' (obviously subjective).

Why invite someone to pass you on the left and then hit you while they turn right?

By the law and your rights, you have a legal right to block that lane. That is not to say that that is the smartest or nicest thing to do. By taking a lane when there is NOT an absolute necessity to do so all you accomplish is to tick off drivers. What I try to do is to pull up to one of these lanes a few cars back and let the right turners make their turn and pull up on the right when there is a car that is not turning right. Why should I get in their way and create a hostile situation when it isn't needed? I have, at times, pulled up where I was going across and waved the vehicle behind me around to make their turn while I was stuck waiting. This creates an amazing amount of good will not just with that driver, but with the others that see it. It is simply being considerate. I see cyclists with the whole critical mass, get out of my way attitude (not to imply that this is you) and it just makes for hostility.

Sure, you can do what you want, but creating conflict is not a good way to operate. My method may take a few more seconds of my time, but make for a conflict free ride and a spirit of cooperation with drivers when they see that I value their time and needs. Additionally, isn't it 'us' cyclists who want the drivers to take a few seconds of time to be considerate of our needs as well?

What Bek said.

However if a NOL there is often not enough width to move left and allow the vehicle to pass and turn right. Then just ignore the honking.

I've never been honked at in this situation when on a bicycle (I 99/100 time stop left biased), but several times honked at while in my SUV as I often don't turn right on red even when I legally am permitted to. A driver sees my right turn signal and thinks I should, but often there are many pedestrians, sightliness to the left are difficult, etc. The situation like this I most get honked at when driving SUV is when I am in right lane and there is a "NO RIGHT ON RED" signs. Somehow the driver behind me can't see, read or understand it and think honking is the answer.

If one does move left in a wider lane to let a right turner turn - it can happen that a thru driver pulls up next to you and goes straight on green. While it is rude, I've never felt it to be unsafe or put me in extra danger. It has only happened 4-5 times, two of them when I waved the driver next to me thinking they were wanting to turn right, so not necessarily even rude, they may have thought I wanted them to do this. The other times I was very far left in a wider lane, too far.

A few tips: Never move further left than needed for the right turning vehicle to 'squeeze' by. Too much room will encourage thru drives to pull up. Also don't wave drivers forward next to you unless they are signaling a right turn.

Al

I've never been honked at in this situation when on a bicycle (I 99/100 time stop left biased), but several times honked at while in my SUV as I often don't turn right on red even when I legally am permitted to. A driver sees my right turn signal and thinks I should, but often there are many pedestrians, sightliness to the left are difficult, etc. The situation like this I most get honked at when driving SUV is when I am in right lane and there is a "NO RIGHT ON RED" signs. Somehow the driver behind me can't see,...

You're right, they can't see around that damned SUV.

You're right, they can't see around that damned SUV.

It's less tall than a mini van, a van, a pickup, etc and quite a bit narrower (narrower and with better turning radius than a Honda Accord). I intentionally mentioned SUV partly to attract the haters. My next post I'll mention I was driving a Prius, that brings 'em out too. No matter what vehicle one drives, including bicycle, someone will find a issue with it.

Anyway not being able to see around me is no excuse to honk when I am stopped at a red light, especially one with 'NO TURN ON RED' signs hung next to the overhead stoplights that can be read even when behind an 18-wheeler as long as one is not tailgating.

Al

So what is it, then? What else are you going to lie about just to get a response?

So what is it, then? What else are you going to lie about just to get a response?

I've lied about nothing, why accuse me of such?

Al

I've lied about nothing, why accuse me of such?

Al

You said yourself that you "intentionally mentioned SUV to attract the haters" and that you'll next say that you were driving a Prius.

So, which is it? Do you have an SUV (and, pray tell, WHY)? Or do you have a Prius? Or both?

And, in case you can't comprehend it, a Prius is very difficult to see through from behind because of how its rear window is laid out -- it mostly reflects the sky, which washes out anything that someone would be able to see through the car.

So, no, if there are pedestrians crossing or a sign prohibiting turning on red, drivers behind you won't be able to see them.

Unless, of course, they're in a bigger SUV... but then it just becomes another arms race, with people trying to buy taller and taller vehicles "so I can see better". :rolleyes:

... especially one with 'NO TURN ON RED' signs hung next to the overhead stoplights that can be read even when behind an 18-wheeler as long as one is not tailgating.

Okay, THAT is a crock of ****. You have to be fifty feet back to see that well around an 18-wheeler.

I'm glad I never have to ride with you.

You said yourself that you "intentionally mentioned SUV to attract the haters" and that you'll next say that you were driving a Prius.

So, which is it? Do you have an SUV (and, pray tell, WHY)? Or do you have a Prius? Or both?

And, in case you can't comprehend it, a Prius is very difficult to see through from behind because of how its rear window is laid out -- it mostly reflects the sky, which washes out anything that someone would be able to see through the car.

So, no, if there are pedestrians crossing or a sign prohibiting turning on red, drivers behind you won't be able to see them.

Unless, of course, they're in a bigger SUV... but then it just becomes another arms race, with people trying to buy taller and taller vehicles "so I can see better". :rolleyes:

Yeah, I drive both on occasion and have been honked at in similar situations in both. It has nothing to do with the type of vehicle I drive and everything to do with the entitlement some drives feel about being able to RTOR. Drivers are too impatient.

Read again, I never said pedestrians are crossing in front of me, just that many are present or that my sightlines to the left are poor - many reasons, but staying put is safer for everyone if there is any doubt. A driver in any vehicle behind a Prius can also see many present pedestrians. But again it doesn't matter - no need to honk at someone stopped at red light.
It is ridiculous to think that a Prius has problems because you can't see thru it. It is quite easy to see over (another sedan behind a Prius can tell if any pedestrian but a small child is in front of a Prius) Also no one looks thru cars in Arizona, most every car has dark tinted windows.

Al

Okay, THAT is a crock of ****. You have to be fifty feet back to see that well around an 18-wheeler.

I'm glad I never have to ride with you.

Wrong again. Have you seen how NO TURN ON RED are posted in the metro phx area? If you had you would know you are wrong. Stop making assumptions. If one can see the rear view mirrors of an 18 wheeler, one can easily see the NTOR signs.

Anyway what does being honked at while in an SUV or Prius at a red light have to do with riding with me or not?

Al

A Prius is not a low car. The Civic I have now is lower than a Prius, and it's even taller than the last Civic I had.

I really don't think you understand.

I really don't think you understand.
I don't understand why you so often start arguments with me that have nothing to do with helping the tread topic at hand, but are aimed more at my integrity (calling me a liar, doubting one can see NTOR signs behind trucks, etc.) and driving/cycling ability ('glad I don't ride with you'). This is not the first time either . Let me know why you are doing this in PM and I can help to reduce was you find perhaps annoying about me.

I did say after you commented on the SUV that I did it to bring out the haters. That was wrong, that was not the only or primary reason, I apologize. I did primarily mention SUV as they have the perception of being the type of vehicle immune to being harassed, so I mentioned SUV to re-enforce the point that even drivers of such vehicles get honked at by impatient drivers, so of course cyclist will sometimes too. I also I admit said SUV as there is a bias against them here. Franky I am amused that when not driving by bicycle I can be found occasionally driving the two types of vehicles most likely to get criticized on BF these days - yet when I drive them I am a very courteous and law abiding driver.

Do you sincerely think Prius are part of the height and size arms race going on with automobiles?

Al

I really don't think you understand.

I'm going to leave it at that.

The bottom line is (unless perhaps driving an emergency vehicle requiring rapid travel at the time) there is never a good or justified reason to honk at a driver ahead of you who is stopped at a red light no matter what kind of vehicle they are driving.

I'm curious, do folks ever see motorcyclists bias far left or right to let right turning vehicles turn on red? I've never once seen this although I can imagine it happening.

It is just as easy to stop left biased in a wide RT/thru lane on a motorcycle as on a bicycle.

Do motorists honk at lane centered motorcyclists who are not taking this extra step to be courteous?

Al