Mountain Biking - Disc brakes on XC bikes, just a fad?

Is there a point to disc brakes on XC bikes? Are V's not good enough anymore? dont they weigh alot? im seeing more and more of them every day... i dont see the point...

They're actually not too bad (the hydraulic ones anyway), yes they do weigh a bit more, but not much. They take a bit to brake in, but once they're working a full capacity, they rule, especially if you ride in wet or muddy areas. But yes it is a fad, that's why many manufacturers are adding cable actuated discs to their line up, basically just for looks. V's a superior to cable actuated discs.

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You guys are actually foregetting one thing. Disc brakes are the only brakes that doesn't wear on your rim. That can save a lot of money if you're using an expensive rim.

Ahhh. good points, i dont get to ride in mud much, or have expensive rims... so i didnt think about that.

I don't understand why hydraulic disc brakes would be good and cables would be bad. Wouldn't the only performance difference be the amount of effort applied on the levers to stop? Wouldn't they still be better than Vee brakes in wet weather? The only other real disadvantage I can see is they would require more adjustments than hydaulic brakes. I am thinking about buying a bike with cable disc brakes and would appreciate the input.

I have a Cannondale bike with the CADD 5 frame, it has no mounts for 'normal' V's and is therefore Disc only... the bike weighs about 21lbs... because it is disc only, the weight saved from removing the brake bosses for V's means the discs don't weight much more than XTR V's... I'd never go back to V's, I love the power and modulation of discs. cannondale are commited to discs, with there race-team, so I don't think it's a fad for them http://www.bikeforums.com/ubb/smile.gif

There was a review in the July '00 issue of Mountain Bike that had a Disk Brake review. Although they chose the Shimano XT Disc's as "Editor's Choice", the write-up on Avid's Cable Actuated Disc's changed my mind. These sound like the idea system for XC. No hydraulic's to deal with, extremely adjustable, and very cost effective.
From what I've read about other Cable Disc brakes, I would be very leary of any of the currently available units, and would opt to wait until the verdict was in on the Avids.
Hope this helps...
tj

I just put the Shimano XT discs on my 2000 GT XCR2000, and they have incredible stopping power. I would recommend them if anyone is considering this brake set.

I agree with NZRaceBoy, I have a Cannondale Jekyll3000sl and after using the hydraulic discs in a couple races and after some long downhills that would have ate half a set of pads I will never go back. They do not fade. I have the same fork setup with no brake bosses and the rear swingarm has none either. Just shy of 25 pounds out of the box. I read the review on Avid cable discs and was impressed, but what happens to the performance when your cable gets dirty and old???

I'm planning on puting a Pair of avid ball bearing seven mechanical disc brakes with avid Fr-5 levers on my stock Trek 6500. The only reason I'm putting them on is because my mom and me like to ride in any weather, which means we usually ride in the mud. Don't get disc brakes, unless you ride in poor contitions often (Mud, Rain etc). They do add weight, but unless you are crazy about a super light weight bike, it really doesn't matter. A definate plus is that they offer consistant high stopping power.

For mechanical disc, get the 160mm rotors, because they offer very good stopping power and they don't bend as much as a 185 or 203 rotor. For XC, a 160 rotor is all you need.

Hey Mikey, no worries about digging up threads, just make sure the information is still relevant.

I closed the other thread about the forks, because it was old info.

I'll leave this one for now.

I'm planning on puting a Pair of avid ball bearing seven mechanical disc brakes with avid Fr-5 levers on my stock Trek 6500. ......................................stopping power.

you do realize you just responded to a thread over 4 years old, right?

times and disc brakes have change. alot.

most of what's above you in the thread is not very applicable at this point in time......

Random observation on disc brakes, but qualifications first.

All 5 of my mountain bikes have disc brakes. I run Hayes, Avid mech., and Martas.

I see a lot of "advice" here about getting disc brakes foor mud, or their superior power. I think this misses the mark.

While it is true that disc brakes have more stopping power, this isn't really the point. Brakes are a governmental system. They govern the amount of stopping power applied to the wheels. Like any governmental system, they are only effective if they have CONTROL over that power. This is why I prefer disc brakes. I can more easily and precisely feather off just the right amount of speed. I can avoid locking up the wheels, especially the rear wheel on very steep sketchy descents. And as a result of this, I can go faster.

Having switched that hardtail from v brakes to avid mechanical discs, I wouldn't agree that v's are better than cable actuated discs.


I read the review on Avid cable discs and was impressed, but what happens to the performance when your cable gets dirty and old???

The same thing that happens to v brakke cables, or shifter cables. You clean them or replace them. I find that running full housing on my avid mechs increases their performance over time.

A lot of people shy away from the hydro systems because they are afraid of having to deal with them failing on the trail. In the several years that I have been running hydraulic disc brakes, I have yet to have this be an issue.

They're actually not too bad (the hydraulic ones anyway), yes they do weigh a bit more, but not much. They take a bit to brake in, but once they're working a full capacity, they rule, especially if you ride in wet or muddy areas. But yes it is a fad, that's why many manufacturers are adding cable actuated discs to their line up, basically just for looks. V's a superior to cable actuated discs.


Even though it's old, it is a classic. I'm going to save this one for people who tell me 29ers are just a fad...

Anyway, In the Uk the whole place is mud so Discs are a must for XC rides... In dry and dusty conditions, Id rather have V's but for over here, you just wouldnt survive for very long with them so you have to pay the weight penalty and buy at least cable discs..

I loves my discs. On a slightly inclining area, you can go a nice little while without using your brakes and mud can accumulate on your rims pretty good. Then when you need fast stopping power (say an upcoming 90 degree turn on a downslope), you apply some force to your V's, there might be a couple seconds where your pads are just clearing mud and water from your rims before enough of the actual stopping force is applied to make a difference. Nice to know that I don't have to "pre-pump" my brakes before I intend to use them on the trail. I loves my discs.

Disks have the main advantage for me that they don't lock in the same way the v-brakes do, this is very good if your flying down a hill and don't want to go over your handlebars

Anyway, In the Uk the whole place is mud so Discs are a must for XC rides... In dry and dusty conditions, Id rather have V's but for over here, you just wouldnt survive for very long with them so you have to pay the weight penalty and buy at least cable discs..

Hate to say it but I still use "V"'s. Only disadvantage to me is the Rim wear, but this will happen in dry conditions in any case. Wheels only last 2 years max before a rim change is due, but New wheels work out cheaper than re-rimming. "V" brakes still work well enough on the Solo XC, but then I'm a gentle rider on the bike. However-- If you are a heavier rider, riding aggressively at high speed all the time, or are prepared to put up with the weight gain and cost-- Then Disc brakes do work more effectively.

By the way, British mud is abundant this year, and the axle deep stuff I encountered on Sunday would not have helped save the disc pads.

Both of my bikes have discs and i would NEVER go back to Vs. The power and feel i get from them is leagues beyond anything u get from even the best V brakes money can buy, i think the small increase in weight is worth it for the benefits they give.

So 5 years later, is it safe to say that discs on XC's are not just a fad? LOL

I swear this is a weekly thread... Everytime I turn around, someone asks whether or not they should put discs on xxx bike. Either way, I see no reason NOT to run discs. One other really big advantage to discs is that if you kill a wheel pretty badly, it won't rub on the discs and you can nurse it home as long as it's not rubbing on the frame. Also, I've found the BB7's to be very easy to adjust, requiring only a click or two on each adjustment wheel once every few weeks. No big deal.

I'd never go back to V's, I love the power and modulation of discs. cannondale are commited to discs, with there race-team, so I don't think it's a fad for them

Race teams define fads, that's part of their job. I have both V-brakes and a mech disc bikes, the big difference is in the wet.

Hayes MX2's are ok for begginners who do not have a lot of money. They came standard with my bike. And so far they have required no ajustment, and they have outperformed my V's I had on my other bike.

They're actually not too bad (the hydraulic ones anyway), yes they do weigh a bit more, but not much. They take a bit to brake in, but once they're working a full capacity, they rule, especially if you ride in wet or muddy areas. But yes it is a fad, that's why many manufacturers are adding cable actuated discs to their line up, basically just for looks. V's a superior to cable actuated discs.

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Maybe you've just rode the cheap ones...

I'm still using the original Avid mech disc brakes that came on my 02' Schwinn Mesa. I recently built up a new bike, and since they still work great, I kept them. Hydraulic is good for most cases, and some are better but not all. I rode Hayes and Magura-equipped bikes, and unless you spend the time to bleed and adjust and tune them, they're not that much better. I'm sure they've worked out alot of the kinks with the newer stuff, but I won't switch til I build my next bike. I prefer the mech's because if you cut a hydraulic brake line, you're screwed. You can still mend a broken cable.

Well, we have all learned that disc brakes are not a fad!

Its funny how we thought 4 -5 years ago. Who would have known this was gonna happen!

Even though it's old, it is a classic. I'm going to save this one for people who tell me 29ers are just a fad...



:rolleyes:


When I saw that post I hadn't realized the thread was freakin' years old. Some of the disc brake hate has disappeared these days. Out with the old and in with the new! It surprises me that so many road bikes are using those crappy cantilever brakes when there are so many better options out there. Why exactly DO they still use that old technology on road bikes? I realize discs wouldn't be a good idea, but why don't they just use a set of scaled down V-brakes?

I'm a big guy and the stopping power from discs in the rain/mud/dirt is the same as when it's dry out so I absolutely love discs and as long as I can I'll keep running them.

Im just waiting 'til someone develops a reliable and strong carbon fibre disc like they use in formula one, alongside Ti brake calipers it should bring them in line with Vs weight wise then its good bye nasty rim eaters :p :D

Going down hills I've experiened no brake fade with my discs, but when I had my V's I almost couldn't control my speed. It was pretty bad.

:rolleyes:


Some of the disc brake hate has disappeared these days.
Think so? Check out cyccommute's posts in this thread
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=86008[

Im just waiting 'til someone develops a reliable and strong carbon fibre disc like they use in formula one, alongside Ti brake calipers it should bring them in line with Vs weight wise then its good bye nasty rim eaters :p :D

I know with F1 brakes they must reach a certain temperature to operate, but when they do the stopping power is incredible (so I've read, anyways). Not sure how easy it would be to engineer them for a bike use. Heck, even many high-end sports cars still stick with non-carbon discs because theyr'e not worth it to adapt to street use.

On another note, someone in an earlier post questioned all the tubing and fluids and fittings and seals related with reliability to hydraulic discs...same as henry Ford, who was very reluctant to adopt hydraulic discs even after most other manufacturers had them.

Anyhow, I have Avid mechanical discs and love them, except for I'm still figuring out how to make them not squeal.

The carbon fibre brakes wouldn't be cost effective and they need to run at a certain temperature to work properly. Also don't worry sbout the brake squeling, you will just have to learn to live with it, it's what disc brakes do best. ;)

I am not sure I agree with the 'up to temp' part of the carbon rotors. All airliner and a lot of larger planes use carbon rotors. They are very durable and resistent to fade and overheat(as if that is an issue for a bike) as well as they are light. Another positive is they do not warp when used hard, as metal can. The thing to watch for in bike rotors would be cracking resistance, since the rotor is thin and ouside the hub(unlike the cars and planes). Road bikes did use discs for a breif period before UCI banned them from competitions in road and cyclocross. I have yet to understand that one. The braking system inadequacies are why I prefer to ride the mtb for anything but perfect weather cruising. When the budget arises I am getting a road/cyclo frame that has tabs and I am installing them.

I know with F1 brakes they must reach a certain temperature to operate, but when they do the stopping power is incredible (so I've read, anyways). Not sure how easy it would be to engineer them for a bike use. Heck, even many high-end sports cars still stick with non-carbon discs because theyr'e not worth it to adapt to street use.

On another note, someone in an earlier post questioned all the tubing and fluids and fittings and seals related with reliability to hydraulic discs...same as henry Ford, who was very reluctant to adopt hydraulic discs even after most other manufacturers had them.

Anyhow, I have Avid mechanical discs and love them, except for I'm still figuring out how to make them not squeal.
Try a set of Aztec pads

I am not sure I agree with the 'up to temp' part of the carbon rotors. All airliner and a lot of larger planes use carbon rotors. They are very durable and resistent to fade and overheat(as if that is an issue for a bike) as well as they are light.

The reason that they work on airliners so well is, as you said they don't warp under serious heat. Also the rotors get up too heat in a very short amount of time due to all the friction involved in slowing a plane down. Yes carbon fibre rotors would work when they are cold (air temp) but they work best a certain temp (sorry I can't give you this figure). It's just not beneficial on a bike because, they would be expensive, they wouldn't get too the temp invovled to make them optimal, when they get to the same temps as metal ones on bikes they work no better, and they would be more brittle than a metal rotor.

The reason that they work on airliners so well is, as you said they don't warp under serious heat. Also the rotors get up too heat in a very short amount of time due to all the friction involved in slowing a plane down. Yes carbon fibre rotors would work when they are cold (air temp) but they work best a certain temp (sorry I can't give you this figure). It's just not beneficial on a bike because, they would be expensive, they wouldn't get too the temp invovled to make them optimal, when they get to the same temps as metal ones on bikes they work no better, and they would be more brittle than a metal rotor.

agreed...as is true with Ceramic rotors theyre using on some Porsches... optimal only at higher temp


i rode in the mud once with Vs and scraped the purty black coating off the side of my rims from the sediments... ill get some Avid Mech as soon as I get some $$$

all the above reasons are well and true. if you are still not convinced to switch try this on a friends bike that has discs. go down a steep hill with a small creek or any water at the bottom and as you sizzle through the water the COOL factor will make the difference.I can ride with confidence in places, conditions, and weather that Id have not even considered with Vs due to knowing Ill have brakes

Disc brakes aren't "Just a Fad".... They work better than any other type of brake currently available, Trust Me....

The controversy about mechanical vs. hydraulic is a different story....
I personally like both for different reasons (believe it or not)!

I've only used mechanical discs, really... I've toyed around with hydraulic brakes a bit and can't say I like one better than the other. I just have more experience with mechanical.

I've only used mechanical discs, really... I've toyed around with hydraulic brakes a bit and can't say I like one better than the other. I just have more experience with mechanical.

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My next set of Disc's will probably be some of the Avid's. (Mechanical's)
Although I have no complaints about my Hayes MX1's & Hayes HFX-DH 8" both '04 models....

Here in N Florida, it doesn't matter what brakes you have. When I ride in the Southeast mountains or places like Moab, Ill stick with Avid cable operated. When I bought my Stump Jumper, I got the bike shop to buy back the Shimano hydraulics so I could use the Avids from my old hardtail.

Al

A question:

Have disk brakes become "standardized" yet? What I mean is if you have Shimano mechanicals can you just as easily work on Avids or Hayes? It seems, to me at least, that there's still pushing and shoving going on about who is going to create the "standard". V brakes are past that and it makes it real easy (cable from one company, calipers from another, pads from a third).

Chuckie

No they are not standardized. Cables will work but pads never will. Pads and caliper design are what use the force of that particular company. I doubt you will ever see a standard, it just isn't feasible, and would make all brakes too similar to bother with competition.

V's are very simplistic in comparison :)

FWIW, you can run shimano centerlock hubs & rotors with avid mech discs according to everything I've read. The only thing that isn't standardized is the caliper. Any mech disc lever and rotor should work fine with any mech caliper. However, they all have their own pads so you have to make sure and get the correct pads.

I'd venture to say that Hydro's are more standardized than Mechanical's.

Reservoir/Piston/Pad/Fluid/Line

Much like the brakes on your AutoMo'HeinousBile....

Ref: Mo' Heinous is a local trail in the Bent Creek, NC that is very steep & fun....
http://www.mtbr.com/trails/NorthCarolina/Mo'Heinous.html

sort of... the difference is that with hydros you're basically stuck with whatever levers come with your brake set. On the other hand, with mechs you can choose your levers. In theory, I could run shimano levers with Avid Mech discs and Shimano centerlock rotors... or Avid Rotors, shimano caliper, avid levers, etc...

My Hayes HFX-9 HD's are great, but I doubt I'll vere buy another set of hydro's....

My rear lever even tried to lock-up the other day when it was about 15º. I had to keep pulling it to make it stay free-moving thru the cylinder.

at some point all fluids must freeze. ;) Luckily such things never happen with my BB7's. I doubt it's a terribly common ocurrence on hydraulic discs unless you ride a lot in single digit or sub zero temps. Cars have the advantage of producing enough heat to keep the brake fluid warm. Bikes don't have such a luxury.

Moot point. The likely hood of anyone riding a bike in those conditions is pretty small. It is definately below -20c which 99% of the riders out there would not ride in :)