Winter Cycling - Innova tires: OK or junk

I'm thinking of buying a pair of Innova 268 studded tires as _backup_ heavy duty tires for days when my Hakkapeliita W106 700x35C tires just don't seem heavy duty enough. I don't expect the Innova's to last as long as Nokian's, but I'll only be using them when there's just too many ruts to feel comfortable on the somewhat narrower Nokian's, so I'm a bit less concerned about durability. But someone (Steele-Bike?) posted that they'll only last 5 miles, which goes from "not-durable" to laughable.

What do people think about the Innova's? Do I really need to spend an extra $60 more than the Innova's to get a Nokian Extreme on the front and Mount and Ground on the back?

(My riding is on bike paths and roads, but on the bike paths the snow turns to sludge during the day, then people ride through it and when it freezes at night you get ice-walled ruts that can be moderately deep--I'd like a tire that if I hit one of those ruts, it'll just climb out, rather than getting caught in the rut and flipping me off balance.)

All I can say is good luck. There aren't many tires that are going to perform that miracle for you. I have gotten caught in those "ruts" with Nokians, Innovas, knobby and slicks. Nothing has kept the bike from following the ruts. What has helped get the bike back under control has been the studded tires. I have ridden both, and while I now have a new set of Nokians on my commuter, I also have my Innovas on a single speed. I don't think they are quite ready for the trash heap, but they are pretty rusty. I've ridden them two seasons, swapping them out when the roads aren't that icey. It doesn't hurt to have a back up.

Innovas are money wasted. Try letting some air out of your tires when the snow gets rutted.

I have them, they suck. Unless you plan on taken them off ANY time there is a significant amount of dry pavement don't get them. Mine are one their 2nd winter, the back studs are gone down the middle, the fronts are 50% worn. The outside studs are still in good shape, front and back, which can save me from a nasty crash. With low pressure in my worn Innova's I get around quite well in the winter.

Also I've heard from my LBS that Innova has a tungsten/carbide studded tire coming out (same tread pattern as current tire), that one might be worth getting if it signifcantly less than the Nokians.

My advice, spend the extra $, get Nokians, ride them for the next 10 winters.

I'd mainly be using the Innova's during the week or so after a storm, then switching back to my existing Nokian's as the trails improve.

That said, I'd have used them this week, and I'd guess that out of a 20 mile round-trip commute that only a couple of miles are icy, the rest is dry pavement. I think maybe I'm going to have to bite the bullet.

One website has the Innova tungsten/carbide tires, but I think they're $64, so not much of an advantage.

For those interested in replacing Innova's studs, see this (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=83356) thread in Shameless Promotions (was originally posted as a reply here).

--J

On the subject, has anyone found that the Innova's suck on glare ice, compared to Nokians or anything with Tungsten Carbide? I have Innovas and I was on a path yesterday morning and it was glare ice... ended up "kissing Canada" 4 or 5 times... it could be that I stink riding on ice, but I'm wondering if anyone's found that the Nokians are far superior (or in any way superior) to the innovas on ice?

No way in hell I would want the hassle of changing tires more than twice a year. I find my Nokian 106 tires work as well as anything for winter driving. Clearly, they have limitations on icy trails chewed up by pedestrians. I deal with this by temporarily using alternate routes to bypass severely ice-rutted areas. However, the issue is not traction, but the very rough ride.

These conditions normally persist for only a few weeks in the DC area.

Paul

Innovas are Ok and definitely not junk. They work good in non-extreme riding conditions where ice patches are basically flat. The studs will wear much quicker than Nokians as they're not carbide tipped but you can also replace them fairly easy.

If you want a cheap studded commuter tire, Innova will fit the bill.

If you want a tire that will last and give you more bite, Nokians are the way to go and worth the extra coin. I've got a set of Extremes on my winter MTB and they just plain rock. Great for icy trails and more extreme conditions like off camber ice sheets.

Neither is a miracle tire that will let you ride like a mad man on glare ice.

Innovas are Ok and definitely not junk. They work good in non-extreme riding conditions where ice patches are basically flat. The studs will wear much quicker than Nokians as they're not carbide tipped but you can also replace them fairly easy.

If you want a cheap studded commuter tire, Innova will fit the bill.

If you want a tire that will last and give you more bite, Nokians are the way to go and worth the extra coin. I've got a set of Extremes on my winter MTB and they just plain rock. Great for icy trails and more extreme conditions like off camber ice sheets.

Neither is a miracle tire that will let you ride like a mad man on glare ice.

I have a pair of Extreme 296's they grab pretty well on glare ice, I can bank the bike, put on the brakes fairly hard. and do wheelies. The flat hard ice is great. I agree you can't go all out, but it's better than I expected.
As posted already, nothing will keep you from being tossed around, when you hit hard frozen ruts that are almost parallel to your direction of travel.

I have a pair of Extreme 296's they grab pretty well on glare ice, I can bank the bike, put on the brakes fairly hard. and do wheelies. The flat hard ice is great. I agree you can't go all out, but it's better than I expected.
As posted already, nothing will keep you from being tossed around, when you hit hard frozen ruts that are almost parallel to your direction of travel.


Same here Nokian Extreme 296's ROCK! I love them.

John

This represents my first winter commuting.
I do about a 15 mile roundtrip on mixed plowed snow, rutted snow, ice and bare pavement.
I use Innova's, and I have lost a few studs, but the tires look good with no wear I can see, and, given my level of caution, seem to perform well enough.
I have not ridden with Nokkians and so I cannot make any comparison there.
A fellow winter commuter at work uses his summer tire in front and a kinda knobby unstudded tire in the rear.
He gets around amazingly well.
Having visited Peter White's site, and reading his comments about Nokkians, I will probably switch to Nokkians next winter, but not because the Innovas have failed me.
I think I got my money's worth.

This represents my first winter commuting.
I do about a 15 mile roundtrip on mixed plowed snow, rutted snow, ice and bare pavement.
I use Innova's, and I have lost a few studs, but the tires look good with no wear I can see, and, given my level of caution, seem to perform well enough.
I have not ridden with Nokkians and so I cannot make any comparison there.
A fellow winter commuter at work uses his summer tire in front and a kinda knobby unstudded tire in the rear.
He gets around amazingly well.
Having visited Peter White's site, and reading his comments about Nokkians, I will probably switch to Nokkians next winter, but not because the Innovas have failed me.
I think I got my money's worth.
I've used a nokian mount and ground on the front and was very happy with the control and traction that I just bought one for the back.They're expensive and hard to find [ LBS ordered ] but they will last and I feel a lot safer commuting to work on several surfices. I've read so many threads about them it made it easier spend my canuck bucks, I just to my wife how much they cost , she thinks I'm nuts for riding in the winter with a warm vehicle in the driveway..... oh well....

I've lost a couple of studs between my front and rear Innovas.
Because of Juha's post, regarding restudding Innovas, I called my local guys and they have the tool.
I'll go down Monday and get my missing studs replaced.

I have two complete sets of wheels for my commuter: one with Panaracer Tserv's and the other with the Innovas.
Any time I have enough bare pavement to feel safe, I put on the Tserv's because they just feel sooo gooood.
I probably only have a few hundred miles on my Innovas, and they still have the flashing on them from coming out of the mold.
They feel weird on bare pavement, so I switch back and forth quite frequently, sometimes several times a week.

My Innova 268's seem to work ok up here, since most surfaces I ride on are
covered with ice and snow. The best surface for these tyres seems to be newly
plowed hard pack. I may want to drop the air pressure back down to prevent
the increased wear around the midline. I raised the pressure to prevent another
pinch flat when riding on bumpy surfaces with -40 degree temps. .

I have innovas with 296 studs, and they do really well on flat ice.

I went to the bike path this weekend (flat slippy ice all the way) with my friend who has hybrid tires (flat roll band in the middle, slight knobs on the sides). I decided to try his bike to see what it was like compared to my tires. On his bike I couldn't ride very fast, and fell twice. On my bike it was a piece of cake. I could ride really fast and actually turn and slow down on ice.

Without the innovas, as soon as I tried making changes to my course I would fall, Even in a stright line with decent speed the bike would wipe out. Perhaps I am not skilled enough on ice, but I don't need to be on my innovas. I love them.

I rode most of the winter with them on a lot of pavement, and the studs show some wear, but are still there. No doubt I will buy some nokians next winter to try em out... But in my opinion, those tires ARE a viable purchase for the person looking for cheaper tires that will make you safer.

I have innova 26 x 2.35 wet tires and they have excellent grip. Never once have I slipped on wet or dry pavement but yes they do wear out very fast. I have ridden 300 km on them and they have worn out half way. I only ride on tarmac (wet or dry) so I don't know about snow.

A local bike shop has a salvage yard (used parts) in the basement. I saw one Innova tire there. The lugs were all in good shape. The studs were worn completely flat. By contrast I had a set of carbide tipped studded tires that I sold after 4 seasons and they still looked good aside from some surface rust.

If you're only going to use them on ice and snow, they might be OK. They might also be OK if your goal is to "try out" a studded tire without spending a fortune knowing these may only last a season.

Finally if you live someplace where snow and ice are a relatively infrequent concern buying Innovas has some merit. Do you really need to spend $100 - $200 for tires you'll use 8 days a year? If you hardly ever use them and when you do it's on ice and snow, then they'll last long enough.

I bought 2.0 Innova slicks a few years ago and they held up great and are still running well. Don't think I ever got a flat in them.

IMO, steel studs are money wasted. Can't say enough good things about Nokian Extremes. The only time I've had my 294s start to slip on me was descending a 15% grade on glare ice.