Fifty Plus (50+) - OT: Major rant about short-lived computer electronics

If we can buy bikes, cars, refrigerators, TVs etc. that last 30 years or more, then why on earth can't a printer or scanner last more than a handful of years before it needs replacing?!

My dad gave us a nice scanner about 5 or 6 years ago. It was a surprise gift for Christmas after I expressed an interest in one. A few years later, we replaced our computer and kept the scanner and the printer.

This past year or so the scanner not performed well. Sometimes it scanned, but would take FOREVER to respond. Then it reported that a plug-in or somethng related to the Adobe PhotoDeluxe software was missing. Now, it makes the noise as if it is getting a signal from the computer, but no scan whatsoever.

Hubby has uninstalled and reinstalled the scanner s/w twice, turned off/re-booted/unplugged the computer and scanner at least twice, verified that we have the latest driver, and has spent several hours doing everything he can think of to get it to work. He's good at stuff like this and almost always gets things working.

Since it was a Christmas gift, and especially because it was gift from my precious father whom I lost barely 2 months ago, this scanner is very sentimental to me. It makes me sick to think it's time to trade it in for something newer when it may be just a compatibility issue with the computer.

Why, WHY WHY?!!???!! :mad:

Just buy a new d*mn scanner

:D

In a more serious note, home-quality scanners are fairly light-duty. Commercial (expensive) scanners can last a long, long time.

I once had a printer that broke after printing 17 pages.

Well then, why do home-quality refrigerators, blenders, and other household appliances last MUCH longer, probably as long as many commercial versions? People have old refrigerators in their garage (or house), old b/w TV sets still going strong.

IMHO they build home-quality scanners to be light-duty because they know we've accepted the fact that we'll have to replace them (and printers, computers, and other computer devices) every few years or so. We accept it!! We wouldn't tolerate a car that failed on us in the middle of the freeway every few days and just slammed to a halt while we were sailing along at 65 mph, yet we accept this.

WHY?!

If it did last, you'd have a scanner that would work well if only it was compatible with the new OS on the upgraded computer. Planned obsolescence.:crash:

Things get better! They can't keep making things backwards compatible, so it really is planned obsolescence.

On the bright side, at least you didn't pay $12,000 for a mac Lisa with 256k of ram and no hard drive. We get a lot for our money nowadays.

The way I figure it, there are 2 ways to go with things... if you're not a hard core user, you remain behind the times by about 4 years, and people will GIVE you everything you need as they upgrade. Or you can buy it for pennies on Craig's List. You need some techie skills here to know what will work with what. But you will find yourself with more computer stuff than can shake a stick at.

OR, you buy the best, latest technology and you hang onto it for as long as you can, buying used identical peripherals as you need to replace something. You do not buy anything new until the software you need to use outstrips the computer. Then you buy a whole new system. Using this method means you can probably go 8 years if you're a light user between systems. I have to do this every 2 years--:notamused:.

BTW, Yen, make sure it's not locked. You're supposed to lock the scanner everytime you move it. If it's locked, it will sound like it's on but it won't scan. It's usually a little slidy switch on the back of it.

If you don't lock it when you're not using it, and you move it around a lot, it will stop working.

Well then, why do home-quality refrigerators, blenders, and other household appliances last MUCH longer, probably as long as many commercial versions?

WHY?!

This is not my experience. I do think we're living in the age of reasonably decent cheap stuff made in China or Malaysia. However, quality control seems, often enough, to be lacking. I just bought a well-respected brand name tea kettle. After about a week the handle fell off. I don't think this kind of story is all that unusual.

solveg - I didn't know about that switch! I checked, and it was unlocked. We never move the scanner though.

Jet Travis - now that I think of it, those old refrigerators and TVs and blenders etc that are still working after 30 years..... were made 30+ years ago! Perhaps, therein lies the difference. "Reasonably decent cheap stuff" fits perfectly within our throw-away society. :cry:


I guess our next purchase will be an all-in-1 printer. We looked at a few the other night that can scan, print documents, print photos, burn CD/DVD, even print and attach a CD label! All for a few hundred dollars. And I can hardly wait to see what the replacement will be able to do when it stops working in just a few years.:crash:

If it did last, you'd have a scanner that would work well if only it was compatible with the new OS on the upgraded computer. Planned obsolescence.:crash:
You might want to try Linux. Your old scanner might be supported and you may find you like Linux better than M$ even if it's not supported. The most popular Linux is ubuntu 8.04. and is replacing M$ Vista as that OS is so bloated and bug ridden that people that need a computer for doing real work and not as a game machine are adding ubuntu to there computers at an exceedingly fast rate. All it will cost you to try it out is a free download and a blank CD-R. Just go here
http://www.ubuntu.com/ if your currently running XP or Vista you'll want ubuntu 8.04. If your running and older computer; say something with Win98 you'll want xubuntu 8.04. http://www.xubuntu.org/ xubuntu will allow you to recycle your old computer into a very usable machine once again.:thumb:
Once you make your choice just download the ISO image and burn a disk from it. Detailed instructions on how to do this are on both pages. After you have burned the disk you can boot your computer with it without making any changes to your computer as the disk you burned is a live-CD. You do not even need a hard drive in the computer! This allows you to try out Linux on your computer before you install it. It's be slower and a little restricted on what you can do but you'll know if all your hardware is supported. After a week or so with Linux you'll detest M$ Windows and see it for what it really is, an over priced flaky X-Box.

My friend Yen, I must say I hear your frustration and anger at that scanner coming through the post. I think I understand a little bit after having lost a dear one. When my father's watch stopped it should not have been a surprise, but it was. I wished it could have kept on going just like I wished my father could have. Perhaps, since your father's passing is still so raw, one thing you might find helpful is to take something off of the scanner and make it a keepsake. I don't mean to trivialize in any way your loss but perhaps it might help. I have my grandfather's and my father's things in a special place in my home. I have a little drawer I keep the things that remind me of them. Perhaps you could even take the logo off of the scanner and save it if you don't want to save the whole thing. I'm grasping at straws I know, but I just would like you to know I feel for you and your family. Since my dad bought me my first bike I guess he is responsible for me writing this in some small way. Good luck and blessings upon you. I really wish you the very best.

My friend Yen, I must say I hear your frustration and anger at that scanner coming through the post. I think I understand a little bit after having lost a dear one. When my father's watch stopped it should not have been a surprise, but it was. I wished it could have kept on going just like I wished my father could have. Perhaps, since your father's passing is still so raw, one thing you might find helpful is to take something off of the scanner and make it a keepsake. I don't mean to trivialize in any way your loss but perhaps it might help. I have my grandfather's and my father's things in a special place in my home. I have a little drawer I keep the things that remind me of them. Perhaps you could even take the logo off of the scanner and save it if you don't want to save the whole thing. I'm grasping at straws I know, but I just would like you to know I feel for you and your family. Since my dad bought me my first bike I guess he is responsible for me writing this in some small way. Good luck and blessings upon you. I really wish you the very best.

That's such a thoughtful post! I hadn't even thought of Yen's loss.

I haven't had very good luck with all-in-1 jobs. They don't do anything all that great.

[quote=Yen;6725793]I guess our next purchase will be an all-in-1 printer. We looked at a few the other night that can scan, print documents, print photos, burn CD/DVD, even print and attach a CD label! /QUOTE]

We own a couple of Epson all-in-ones. Go the Epson store online; frequently they have refurbished returns.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=63068985

You can get this refurbed Epson RX580 for $85 (this is the one I own). That includes about $60 worth of ink...they're selling you the printer for close to nothing to get you addicted to their ink....

Well then, why do home-quality refrigerators, blenders, and other household appliances last MUCH longer, probably as long as many commercial versions? People have old refrigerators in their garage (or house), old b/w TV sets still going strong.

IMHO they build home-quality scanners to be light-duty because they know we've accepted the fact that we'll have to replace them (and printers, computers, and other computer devices) every few years or so. We accept it!! We wouldn't tolerate a car that failed on us in the middle of the freeway every few days and just slammed to a halt while we were sailing along at 65 mph, yet we accept this.

WHY?!

I agree with you about the computer components and electronics, but disagree about the appliances. The days of a refrigerator, dishwasher, or stove lasting "forever" are over. My parents had their old refrigerator in their garage and it was there when the last parent died - that thing worked for over 60 years. I just replaced a 10 year old stove, I've bought so many front loading washing machines (things "go out" on them and it is the price of a new one to fix them) that I could have opened a small laundromat. I've bought several dishwashers (same repair dilemma), and the list goes on... Irons seem to last a year or two (my mother' s GE is probably still working somewhere), CD players ditto, even the car radio in the Toyota went out and had to be replaced, if you can believe it, because it was sealed and couldn't be opened. I have a whole library of laptops in the bottom of my file cabinet - I just can't stand to throw out $2500 pieces of plastic and copper, I guess. My bike, however, is one year old and so far seems to be holding together. It's a pretty simple machine, though.

When my photo quality scanner crapped out on me a couple years ago I checked the
manufacturer's (HP) web site for trouble shooting help and was able to isolate the problem
to the power pack, "Brick". My local computer store wanted over $100 for a replacement
power pack....I ordered one on-line from the manufacturer's web site for $20 and am happily
still using my scanner.

Might be worth your effort to follow up with the manufacturer before replacing the scanner.

solveg - I didn't know about that switch! I checked, and it was unlocked. We never move the scanner though.

Jet Travis - now that I think of it, those old refrigerators and TVs and blenders etc that are still working after 30 years..... were made 30+ years ago! Perhaps, therein lies the difference. "Reasonably decent cheap stuff" fits perfectly within our throw-away society. :cry:


I guess our next purchase will be an all-in-1 printer. We looked at a few the other night that can scan, print documents, print photos, burn CD/DVD, even print and attach a CD label! All for a few hundred dollars. And I can hardly wait to see what the replacement will be able to do when it stops working in just a few years.:crash:

Not only made 30 years ago, but quite possibly made in this country, or in a US managed plant overseas. That was an era in which people who still made things with their hands had control over the manufacturing areas in this country. Today it is perfectly acceptable cost of doing business to produce x% junk as long as its cheap junk. We (and I mean WE, you and I) still buy at Walmart and Home Depot and Stop $ Shop because the price is better. By By local hardware stores and Ma & Pop grocery stores....................you were nice but we want cheap...............................

I'm not going to say we should turn back the clock and isolate ourselves from Globalization..........we can't, its going to happen...............but do we have to let hacks in management produce junk for the instant gratification of the shareholders.

Get a Mac.

It's the answer to all of life's computer problems.

WHY?!

So they can sell more of them, more often.

Remember when cars were basically disposable? They were cheap and you got a new one every two or three years. The industry was really healthy too.

Now they've been forced to make them last longer, and they got much, much more expensive. So they sell fewer, less often and the industry is faltering.

Consider the prices of computers and computer peripheral devices these days. I bought a printer that came with ink for no more than the price of the ink...the printer itself was essentially free. I have a scanner that cost $15 after rebate. Have you priced a refrigerator lately?

When you buy "inexpensive", you very often have to be tolerant of "cheap".

I have a working scanner now -- it came as a toss-in with my last laptop. But for a few years prior to that I just used a digital camera to copy documents, photos, etc that I would otherwise have scanned. It worked pretty well in competition with el-cheapo scanners. A tripod helps but is not essential.

Man, I must be the odd man out here.
Bought the HP Pavillion back in may of 2001 got a basic hp printer at the same time.
Sence that time, I've replaced the power supply (once) $37.95+ shipping. I installed it
Mouse (once) $12.95 wally world
Printer (once $ 39.95 Wally World
Aside from pulling the stinkin side panel and duct taping air purifier quality filtration material over the opening, I've done nothing..It works every day.

My wife's HP all-in-one printer/scanner/fax, a $25 yard sale treasure, has jammed a couple of times, but I have been able to unscrew a few Torx fasteners, move the carriage by hand, and get the thing rebooted and going again. More often than not, when an electromechanical consumer appliance fails, the source of the problem is something relatively minor, but the thing ends up in the landfill.

Don't get me started on garbage disposers. My 4.3-year-old expensive ISE 444 just died, and I am suspecting an internal leak leading to motor burnout. (The "0.3" is important, because the factory warranty is 4.0 years.) I am going back to cheapo models, which last just about as long as the more expensive ones.

I am about to replace a still-running 20-year-old refrigerator, and I fear that its replacement will not last as long. To put things in perspective, the price for a new 18 cu ft top-freezer unit is just over $600, compared to just under $600 20 years ago, despite at least a doubling in the CPI.

But the thing is, new technology is SO much better than that of just a few years ago!

I didn't own a scanner at all until about 6 years ago. The quality was so inferior compared to professional drum scanners, that I thought they were a waste. They were expensive, too.

Then at work, some clients requested flatbed scans. We thought they were crazy, but we got a new flatbed scanner and they were pretty dang good.

I'm on my 3rd scanner in 6 years. The last one does an EXCELLENT job at scanning, plus you can scan it in as a PDF, which means that text is as clear as it is in real life. Now I scan in all my financial stuff and receipts and vet bills for permanent storage.

Only 8 years ago, I couldn't even retouch a scan made on a flatbed without it falling apart. A drum scan is still best, but boy! Scanners have come a long way in a short time. They're so FAST now, too!

A drum scan can take 40 minutes to do, from mounting to saving and cost hundreds of dollars. Granted there's a ton more detail... but for most uses, you can get a reworkable image from a $150 flatbed in 20 seconds!

Go technology! I'm looking forward to seeing what my next scanner can do.

My friend Yen, I must say I hear your frustration and anger at that scanner coming through the post. I think I understand a little bit after having lost a dear one. When my father's watch stopped it should not have been a surprise, but it was. I wished it could have kept on going just like I wished my father could have. Perhaps, since your father's passing is still so raw, one thing you might find helpful is to take something off of the scanner and make it a keepsake. I don't mean to trivialize in any way your loss but perhaps it might help. I have my grandfather's and my father's things in a special place in my home. I have a little drawer I keep the things that remind me of them. Perhaps you could even take the logo off of the scanner and save it if you don't want to save the whole thing. I'm grasping at straws I know, but I just would like you to know I feel for you and your family. Since my dad bought me my first bike I guess he is responsible for me writing this in some small way. Good luck and blessings upon you. I really wish you the very best.


+1
That was a very touching & thoughtful post.

Well, I am old enough to remember my father's first color tv. It was delivered by three men. Two to carry it in from the truck and one who spent the next two days adjusting it. Today, I can walk into a store, buy a high resolution TV, take it home connect two wires and expect it to work flawlessly. That is not to say, I have not felt the frustration when something doesn't work.

torgrot

I used to build my own computers. May sound technical but it is just a collection of parts that you slot together. A 10 year old could do it. In this manner I could select the quality of the parts I wanted- the spec and by carefull shopping around- The price I would pay.

However- 3 years ago- I was up for a new computer and walked into a local "WallyMart" electrical store. There was a computer box- with basically the spec I had been looking at building- For half the price I could build one. Video card was not good- but that could be changed. Bought it- Got it home- plugged it in and it is still working and doing exactly what I want it to do.

So my being fussy and technical has probably cost me a few $$$'s over the years.

But things like printers and Scanners are not something I can build. I have to buy them complete and rely on Epson or HP to have built the thing properly in the first place. They do work and work well- till one day- they just do not work. They make all the right sounds- but nothing happens. Time to get the mags out and surf the net to find out what the latest technology is that I don't need- just so I can buy it.

Technology is evolving faster then most of us can comprehend.
I have 4 computers, one Printer/Copier/Fax by HP, Bose Sound System and digital Camera by Cannon all talking to each other.
The computers are Toshiba Lap Top with Windows 98 on dial up.
HP Pavilion dv6000 Lap Top with Vista on Wireless Router by Linksys.
HP Pavilion Desk Top with Vista on Broadband Cable.
Dell Lap Top with Windows 98 on Wireless Router by Linksys.

All this stuff acted up due to causes beyond my skills. It took $1,000 and consultants to find that a damaged cable screwed up the Wireless Router and it messed up the Dell which is still seriously sick and made the HP act funny.
I had intermittent problems for months and it took a lot of Brandy to calm my nerves.

I am trying to tell you that technology is running away fast and it is not all bad but it can drive you up the wall. The younger educated crowd seems to take it with much more confidence then us older folks.

They just trow it out and get a better mousetrap. We older folks fall in love with some of the s**t as Lance A. said. Yen may have that problem. Todays marvel is tomorrows junk.

Well then, why do home-quality refrigerators, blenders, and other household appliances last MUCH longer, probably as long as many commercial versions? People have old refrigerators in their garage (or house), old b/w TV sets still going strong.

IMHO they build home-quality scanners to be light-duty because they know we've accepted the fact that we'll have to replace them (and printers, computers, and other computer devices) every few years or so. We accept it!! We wouldn't tolerate a car that failed on us in the middle of the freeway every few days and just slammed to a halt while we were sailing along at 65 mph, yet we accept this.

WHY?!

Jen, I think that's exactly right, we accept it. And would we pay the cost of a design with 20 year durability, when you can get the next upgraded home model for far less $$?

Regarding cars, there's a thing we car engineers do called failure modes and effects analysis (FMEA). It's far from foolproof, being a human process, but it is intended to predict and prevent the failures that would bring the car to a halt, while permitting the company to identify failures that are much less severe in their consequences. Based on this and an understanding of consumer expectations, car companies decide what failures to prevent most aggressively. I assume home appliances (other so-called durable goods) design processes have similar steps.

At the end of the day, Tom B. has it right - we don't have many choices, so if you need to scan, you need to buy a scanner.

Road Fan

All of Man's technology follows an arc.

Someone drew a comparison between automobiles and computer technology,
which was, I thought, pretty good.
I just saw a way of expanding the original comparison a little.

The car as we know it was invented in 1885.
How many decades passed before a recognizably modern, affordable internal combustion powered
automobile became widely available?
One that was reliable?
Fifty years?
Seventy years?

So much for automobile tech.
How about personal computer tech.?

The personal computer was invented in the 1970's.
-I'm biased, I run Apple shtuff, but this is my post....

So, how many decades have passed since the invention of the personal 'puter?
Four?
The peripherals are not up to speed, and the computers themselves still lack a lot.

There's so much more to expect, just over the horizon.

If computers were cars, we'd be typing on the equivalent of a 1935 Ford Business Coupe right now.

There's room for improvement.

----------------------------------

The original poster was posting about a departed loved one's gift.
I agree with CYCLEMISSION's suggestion to keep at least a piece of the scanner as a keepsake.

Thanks everyone! I never expected such a response. I could have taken it to a computer-related forum where nobody knows me, but I wanted to get that off my chest among friends.

The failure of this scanner is like rubbing salt on a wound, but I know my dad would not want me to linger long on it, any more than he'd want me to give up riding during this time. I appreciate the kind words expressed about this issue, and I like the idea of keeping a small part of it. Thank you.

I never considered Linux as a solution -- I will look into that. I've seen it recommended as a solution to other problems so it's worth a try.

The main thing about an all-in-1 that scares me off is that it reminds me of the advice my dad would give me now and then...... the more bells and whistles, the more things that can fail. Simple might be better.

The main thing about an all-in-1 that scares me off is that it reminds me of the advice my dad would give me now and then...... the more bells and whistles, the more things that can fail. Simple might be better.

Wise words- But I have an all in one in the garage on the shelf that works perfectly. Only problem is that the quality of the printer- scanner- copier and even the fax- are well below what I would call acceptable. But 6 years after getting it- it still works. So there it sits on the shelf gathering dust till my printer stops working.

A Bit of research pays dividends and about 10 years ago- we wanted a new Dishwasher. Could not afford the Top of the range ones so went into the UK sourced ones. One make we had never had trouble with and that was Hoover. Price was sensible and so we went for the top of the range one. There were certain manufacturers that were cheaper- but we had been warned off them by others. So got the dishwasher and after about 10 days- it broke down. Repairman came and 10 days later it broke again. For the next two months it was breaking down every 10 days. Then I insisted on a new machine and 10 days later it broke down again. I got my money back and then found out that this machine was made in Eastern Europe- in the same factory as one of the makes I had been warned away from. It transpired that it was a rebadged Cr*p unit of one of the makes I did not want.

I now buy German Manufacture on the Household appliances. Not only do they last- They can be repaired.

I'm happy to report that the scanner works again. Hubby deleted an Adobe font something or other that was hanging or not working or something and the scanner was looking for it. Now it works -- slowly, but it works! :D

All is now right in the world!