Commuting - Bicycles Banned

Check out this article...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=8&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on_re_as/china_bike_ban

Another reason why China is so bass-ackward. They produce so many bikes yet make cars the priority. Sounds waaaay to familiar.<looks around>

:( to make room for cars. This sounds like the United States in the 1920's. General Motors and Volkswagen are the 2 dominant car companies in China right now. They are both probably happy with this decision. History has a way of repeating itself.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&ncid=535&e=8&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on_re_as/china_bike_ban

what's china without millions of bikes everywhere?!?! Actually the real question is are bikes just banned from the car lanes of shanghi and they can still ride on the bike parts OR are they banned period. When I was there they had huge side lanes (2of our lanes) reserved for bikes only (no walkers). We need that in the US.

'"Bicycles put great pressure on the city's troubled traffic situation," the English-language Shanghai Daily quoted police official Chen Yuangao as saying. '

Pressure which is only a problem now because of an increase in private motor vehicles, and yet it's bikes that are banned.

What is it about cars that lead people into abandoning all reason?

--Link-- (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3484322,00.html)


SHANGHAI, China (AP) - Bicycles were kings of the road in Shanghai for decades, transporting young and old, lofty and lowly, through the city's streets and markets. Times have changed, though, and the automobile now rules supreme.

As for bikes, well, they just get in the way, according to local police.

Already barred from some major thoroughfares, bicycles will be banned altogether from important streets starting next year, newspapers reported Tuesday. To further discourage riders - especially those with a tendency to bend the rules - police are jacking up fines tenfold for infractions such as running red lights.

"Bicycles put great pressure on the city's troubled traffic situation,'' the English-language Shanghai Daily quoted police official Chen Yuangao as saying.

Yet cars, buses and taxis put pressure on the environment, argue bike proponents, who aren't taking the proposed changes sitting down.

Vehicle emissions have become a major source of pollution in Shanghai and other big Chinese cities, even while heavily polluting industries have been shuttered.

Low polluting alternatives such as electric bicycles have grown more popular, but the new rules would ban those as well. Banning bicycles could also worsen overcrowding on buses and subways and prompt more people to turn to automobiles, worsening the pollution problem.

"Bicycles are an environmentally friendly means of transportation that should not be banned,'' the paper quoted Zhao Guotong, an official of the Shanghai Economic Commission, as saying.

Shanghai should instead ``take firm control of the increasing numbers of private cars,'' Zhao was quoted as saying.

Shanghai, a city of about 20 million, has some 9 million bikes, according to Shanghai Daily. Numbers of new cycles in the city, ranging from the old-fashioned Flying Pigeons to flashy new mountain bikes, grew by 1 million this year.

Bicycles are still the dominant form of transportation across China, where most people still make less than $1,000 per year. With the Communist Party promoting bikes as cheap, egalitarian transport, working-day China ran almost exclusively by pedal power before increasing affluence and economic reforms fired a desire for private cars in recent years.

Shanghai boasted some of China's earliest bicycle factories, and like other cities, set aside special bike lanes on main roads and built bicycle parking lots. Hordes of cyclists can still be seen in the old city center, their tinkling bells penetrating the roar of traffic, riders' multihued rain ponchos brightening the gray, drizzly winter days.

Yet cars and freeway development have been gradually encroaching as Shanghai takes its place as the Detroit of China's burgeoning auto industry.

In Beijing and other Chinese cities, bikes are also being shunted aside as car ownership grows. For now, anyway, there's no talk of banning bikes in the capital, where bicycle access in the city is a symbol of the link between the communist government and its proletarian roots.

In Shanghai, numbers of private vehicles - especially the Volkswagens, GM compacts and Buick sedans made in the city - nearly doubled to 142,801 at the end of last year, according to the National Bureau of Statistics. The figure is expected to top 200,000 by the end of this year, according to Shanghai media reports.

And that accounts for only a small percentage of vehicles on the road: Private automobiles are outnumbered six to one by buses, taxis, government cars, and commercial vehicles, according to the official newspaper Liberation Daily.

City officials have tried to rein in numbers of new cars by raising registration fees and restricting access to the city center.

Nevertheless, police officials seem intent on eliminating two wheelers as the key to reducing gridlock. Could be that in future years, the only bikes in the city are the stationary kind found in health clubs.

Has anyone in China ever considered that perhaps their gridlock problems might be caused by their population density? I find it interesting that even the car-dominated cities in the world haven't yet found the need to ban bikes in an attempt to reduce congestion. In fact, I've heard numerous cities in this country at least paying lip service to cyclists as a solution to traffic problems.

Perhaps I'm just being cynical here, but I can't help thinking that someone in the chinese government right now might be thinking "roads clogged with cars - symbol of the free west."

>> Banning bicycles could also worsen overcrowding on buses and subways and prompt more people to turn to automobiles, worsening the pollution problem. >>>

Jackpot! This is exactly what is going to happen once they force everyone on buses. Folks. Most people in China will not be able to afford a car so the majority that ride bikes will be forced to take the bus. All those new slow moving buses will surely make gridlock even worse than the cyclists ever did.

The joke's on them.

They mentioned "major" streets. I would assume they're still allowed on side streets. Kind of like how bikes aren't really supposed to be on queens blvd in NYC, or people for that matter, I get close calls every day I cross queens blvd on my way to work from people doing 60+

I have to say I'm not too concerned about a ban on bikes in China. I think they're talking about really big roads like the 4 Ring Roads or the major highways. Yes there are plenty of side streets that many times are wider than the roads, just not as nice. and remember China is the brithplace of Critical Mass!

jeff

i'm actually going to be there in a week so i'll follow-up

Hey, baby, this is progress!!! (NOT!)

So if Bikes are the major transportation mode in China and they produce so many of them, I'm wondering about why I can't think of any Chinese road bikes. Are Chinese bikes sold in the US?

Hopefully, China's repressive authoritarian-style of government is changing along with it's economic progress. At least in the U.S., we cyclists have a chance of battling the big-money interests who seek to marginalize us.

So if Bikes are the major transportation mode in China and they produce so many of them, I'm wondering about why I can't think of any Chinese road bikes. Are Chinese bikes sold in the US?

Pretty much all of them are made in China and Taiwan.

Oh, duh. I guess I was thinking that they were made mostly in Japan.

So, US car and oil companies are doing everything they can to make China dependant on oil for transportation. Exactly where are 1 billion Chinese drivers going to get their oil from?
From a national security point of view, the US should be doing everything in its power to prevent China from become petroleum-dependant.

>>>Exactly where are 1 billion Chinese drivers going to get their oil from?<<<<

This made me laugh. Folks they are going to get the oil from the same oil wells in the middle east that we do. I guess their government will end up subsidizing oil imports just like the US. Our government could care less about an oil crisis in China in the very near future as we are more concered about SELLING CARS! Keep in mind the special interest (Auto Manf) groups have basically made our foreign policy and the Chinese will eventually acclerate in exhausting the oil supply in the middle east.

I read an article that stated China will have 1 million cars each year just like other industrial nations. All of these cars are going to need LOTS of gas so we can expect the price of fuel to go up once China gets up to production.

So, US car and oil companies are doing everything they can to make China dependant on oil for transportation. Exactly where are 1 billion Chinese drivers going to get their oil from?

It's not just us, Michael. British Petroleum is a big boy, too. But generally, you said it right.

From a national security point of view, the US should be doing everything in its power to prevent China from become petroleum-dependant.
From a national security point of view, you'd think the US should be doing everything in it's power to free itself from petroleum dependence. But I guess we think that whatever is best for our most powerful, wealthy companies is best for everyone.

>>>From a national security point of view, the US should be doing everything in its power to prevent China from become petroleum-dependant.<<<<

Good point but it won't happen. It wouldn't surprise me to see China invade the middle east some day to get the last working oil wells.

In the end, OPEC will determine who gets what and for how much. If China decides it wants to become dependant on oil, they will one day have to fight for it just like we're doing today. Except the fight might not be with Saddam but with us!

You know you are dealing with a completely clueless, incompetent government when a viable and valuable partial solution is treated as part of the problem itself. Amazing! They must be trying to maximize vehicle taxes, not realizing that automobile accommodation is not self-supporting anywhere.

If Shanghai, perhaps the most densely overpopulated city in the entire world, has no room for bicycles, how can it have room for more cars?

The bikes they actually ride in China are probably a lot different than the bikes they produce for export. My educated guess is that the 'local' bikes in China are more like an English / UK 1- or 3-speed 'town' or 'work' bike than like a US road bike.

He he, oops, this was in reply to the poster thinking most bikes were made in Japan, my bad, I didnt realsie that the tread was 2 pages long :)


Nah, its all Chinese stuff here. In fact you are starting to see 'Made in Japan' (Nihon-Sei) in Chinese characters (Japanese use Chinese characters) trying to promote selling of this stuff. Before it was a given that it was made here (Japan) now its all China and Korea and to a lesser extent Singapore, Malaysia and the Phillipines. Talking about all sorts of stuff, not just bikes and compos)
The day we see a Rohlof hub with a cheesy gold sticker saying 'Made in China' is the day to end it all :)

The day we see a Rohlof hub with a cheesy gold sticker saying 'Made in China' is the day to end it all :)
Of course, "Made in China" might one day be the historical equivalent of "Made in Japan;" remember that once, all the crappy junk was made in Japan while they learned how to make the good stuff better.

With the Communist Party promoting bikes as cheap, egalitarian transport, working-day China ran almost exclusively by pedal power before increasing affluence and economic reforms fired a desire for private cars in recent years.

could this be the influence from the west?

even if the banning of bicycles are just for major roads, it is still a bad thing. if bike commuters use the major road because it is the fastest route, then why would they want to start using the longer route? if they have money, they will buy a car and use a car, get fat, and die early.

The auto boom in China probably isn't so sinister or as conspiracy filled as many people want to think. I have been to China many times over the past fifteen years.

I was there when there were very few automobiles on the streets and people rode bicycles great distances without even thinking of it. I was invited to go to the zoo and it took 2.5 hours each way by bicycle. I thought it was quite a neat deal, but my Chinese hosts thought nothing of it.

TODAY, my same Chinese friends want automobiles. They want them for convenience and prestige just like everybody else in the world.

The automobile makers aren't an evil empire systematically squashing the lowly bicycle and the oil companies aren't surgically placing 'pro-oil message' computer chips in the brains of the Chinese.

Heck, Chinese fellows just want to drive around in sporty cars with a beautiful girl beside them and a dog in the back seat just like in the movies. And guess what - Chinese girls want to be sitting next to the guy with the nice car with the dog in the back seat too.

I will say that fifteen years ago, even big cities in China were magical. They were big, but they were quiet and peaceful without cars. You could stand on a corner and watch thousands of people silently float by on bicycles in a matter of a few short minutes.

Now, The streets are noisy and crowded and exhausting. New York traffic on a bad day seems like a walk in the park compaired with Shanghai.

About a year ago, I was in Shanghai and you literally could not see across the street due to the air pollution. The government put some regulations in place and the air did improve, but it was shocking to see how bad air pollution can get.

Consumers can be created and programmed to want things that they don't necessarily need in China just like anywhere else. There may may not be an evil cabal plotting car sales in China, but the Chinese government does want to 'modernize', they are accumulating the capital to allow the purchase of private automobiles, the car companies are looking for new markets (since there are already more cars than people in the US), and advertising (including product placement in movies and such) can be a very persuasive motivation, creating consumer 'desire'. What the ads never show are the negative side effects of the products they are pushing.

Fortunately, help is available:
http://adbusters.org/home/

I was reading a book the other day that said an auto based transportation system is not viable for china. It said that they dont have enough land for roads and to produce food.

http://www.earth-policy.org/Books/Eco_contents.htm

sorry its a 300 page book and im not sure where that quote was.

I was reading a book the other day that said an auto based transportation system is not viable for china. It said that they dont have enough land for roads and to produce food.

http://www.earth-policy.org/Books/Eco_contents.htm



I can believe that China's infrastructure can't handle the full load of automobile traffic. If they use today's standard combustions engines, their air quality wouldn't be able to sustain human life if the populous drove automobiles like they do in the USA or other countries.

I remember standing on a street in Beijing a few years ago watching millions of bicyclists float by. I asked myself, "what if all these people were driving cars?!" Some years later, that nightmare questions was answered to a small degree. Not everybody is driving cars yet, but the streets are a mess and the air pollution is terrible beyond words.

I haven't been to China.... yet, but I did notice in Mexico City, where the air was atrocious, that a lot of the cars driven were fuelled with leaded gas. It was clear that they didn't have fuel emmision standards or auto standards for clean air purposes. It seemed to be the same deal when I went to Malaysia. In the early 90s, the air was pretty clear, but by the late 90s, there were a lot more cars fuelled by leaded gas, and I couldn't stop coughing the entire trip. I haven't been back since.

I don't see a problem with wanting cars- if a society wants cars, there should be a way of introducing cars that are sufficient for the infrastructure and environment of the society, that's all. Everyone wants cars in Europe too, but there are quite a few fuel efficient, clean burning, small car manufacturers that produce those tiny cars that seem to be so popular there. And with those streets in Europe so much smaller than here in the USA, the cars in Europe are much more suited for them.

Of course, I wish we had those zippy little cars here too-we only get those all-too-expensive mini cars, which is ridiculous. I can't believe they cost that much to produce!

Koffee

Everyone wants cars in Europe too, but there are quite a few fuel efficient, clean burning, small car manufacturers that produce those tiny cars that seem to be so popular there. And with those streets in Europe so much smaller than here in the USA, the cars in Europe are much more suited for them.

Of course, I wish we had those zippy little cars here too-we only get those all-too-expensive mini cars, which is ridiculous. I can't believe they cost that much to produce!
Koffee

Cooler yet than the Euro compacts are the Japanese cars. There are mini cars in Japan that you never ever see anywhere else for some reason. My Japanese friend picked me up from the Tokyo airport in his family car. There was enough room for four people exactly - no more, no less and just a tiny little space for luggage. He could park anywhere and the car got 50 miles to the gallon of gas (if my conversion math was correct). He could park in the tiniest of spots and travel down those Japanese streets that are as narrow as the space between banister railings. Japan has cars that are so lightweight and small that they are just one step above pedal cars, yet they do the trick - getting passengers to and from local distances, picking up kids, going grocery shopping, etcetera.

Chinese automobiles are surprisingly similar to those the USA - inneficient, smoke coughing, and bulky. I am surprised that Japanese automobile influence has not had a stronger impact in China. You would think that the Chinese would find delight with lower cost, more efficient automobiles. Go figure.

Sounds a little like the Smart Car in Europe. When I saw one, I was crazy for it- totally efficient, and you could park just about anywhere with it. When I move to Europe, I certainly want one, and I've NEVER wanted a car before!

I think the USA has more of an influence on China than Japan- blame the media images on their interest in those big cars. :(

Koffee

>>>>The automobile makers aren't an evil empire systematically squashing the lowly bicycle and the oil companies aren't surgically placing 'pro-oil message' computer chips in the brains of the Chinese.<<<<

I dissagree. The automobile makers have dismantled dozens of trolley lines 50 years ago. They fight against Light Rail construction in cities that need them by subsidizing the opposition's legal fees. They fight against fuel efficient cars and lobby against government funding of public transportation in general.

The auto companies need more customers and you think changing China to an oil dependant country is NOT foreign policy? Come on. The last thing we need is China involved in middle east affairs since there are bound to be conflicts. Mark my word folks, when China becomes oil dependant, we'll have to deal with them sooner or later just like Iraq.

There's not enough oil for us and the Chinese.

I saw some generic roadbikes and mountain bikes on ebay, not sure where they are from but someplace in the orient. My guess is they have very generic, old school 12 speed/18 speed type bikes.

Or even singles speeds and three speeds. :-)