Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Braking

Ok, what am I doing wrong? I lock my right leg when the pedal is at 6 o'clock, lean forward, pull up on left leg...and still, it takes all of my strength to get even the most minor of skids...

Suggestions?

the problem is almost certainly due to a moment of hesitation, which shifts your weight to the rear and makes it harder to overcome friction. from my own experience, and what i can gather about others', hesitation comes about from being reluctant to fully shift your weight forward.

Reduce your gear inches

use your brake

use your brake

:cry::50::deadhorse:

If you cant stop it dont ride fast or use a caliper brake till you can.

Lean more forward to displace more weight off the rear wheel to start a skid. Practice.

Search too, this has probably be discussed extensively.

Reduce your gear inches

+1

I assume the OP is some hipster freestyle dork wanting to learn to skid. if so, running a silly small gear inch to learn and then building it up as you gain the skill and feel is the way to go.)

Otherwise, if if the OP is jsut riding on the street...use a brake and don't worry about skids, they are useless.

I assume the OP is some hipster freestyle dork wanting to learn to skid. if so, running a silly small gear inch to learn and then building it up as you gain the skill and feel is the way to go.)

Obstacle,

You are wrong. I'm just a teacher with no money for transportation living in NYC. Being a car owner is out of the question. As is being a hipster freestyle dork (though I like some of the same music). But thanks, I appreciate the healthy cynicism.

I'm interested in learning how to stop more quickly, that is all. I'm using a front brake now, but just wanted further advice on the matter.

Right now I'm riding 42/16. Should I decrease the size of my crank? rear cog?

I skid on about the same number of gear inches just fine. You don't need to change it.

I'm guessing that you're thinking of skidding more as something like: Pedals go around, and then at one moment you push/pull with you legs with all your might and skid.

It's more about timing and properly getting your weight over the back pedal. Try riding around and letting the pedals push your back leg, and you, off your saddle. You sort of need to become dead weight on the bike, and just let the momentum push you off the saddle. So, with that feel, once your back leg (or what will be your back leg once you start the skid) approaches 6-o'clock, stiffen and extend it, and let the pedal start to push your body upwards. Around the same time, you should pull up with your front leg. Once you get to around 3 and 9-o'clock, you'll get to a point where you can almost feel the drive train wanting to lock-up. It's ok to try it at slow speeds first to get a feel for it.

That ratio is on the lower side, so that shouldn't be a problem.
What kind of tires are you using and what is your foot retention setup?

I skid on about the same number of gear inches just fine. You don't need to change it.

I'm guessing that you're thinking of skidding more as something like: Pedals go around, and then at one moment you push/pull with you legs with all your might and skid.

It's more about timing and properly getting your weight over the back pedal. Try riding around and letting the pedals push your back leg, and you, off your saddle. You sort of need to become dead weight on the bike, and just let the momentum push you off the saddle. So, with that feel, once your back leg (or what will be your back leg once you start the skid) approaches 6-o'clock, stiffen and extend it, and let the pedal start to push your body upwards. Around the same time, you should pull up with your front leg. Once you get to around 3 and 9-o'clock, you'll get to a point where you can almost feel the drive train wanting to lock-up. It's ok to try it at slow speeds first to get a feel for it.

Winner! It's more like making love, than a post fight anger induced screw. finesse it as a motion not a quick action for satisfaction :D

700x25c. As for foot retention, I am using metal cages.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=6260788

that will get you started.
once you're comfortable with the idea, everything else will come natural and eventually evolve into doing it while in saddle.

technique is the key. learning when to push/pull takes coordination at 1st. I go by the saying, "front foot pulls up, back foot pushes back" I really think gear inches comes 2nd to being able to do it compared to knowing how to do it. I've jumped from a 68 gi to a 84gi and had no issues with skipping/skidding. Tires make skidding more difficult depending on its compound

Thanks for your patience and suggestions!

42/16 is somewhat of a low ratio. You should be able to skid, assuming you ride your bike often. I'd say it's just a matter of technique. Practice, practice, practice.

And run the front brake either forever or until you can skid consistently barely getting out of the saddle and barely remember the brake is there.

i read this thread, went and practiced at the park in the grass and dirt, and can now skid. . just not that consistent or long on regular pavement

I try not to skid in order to save my tires.

Use a brake.

However, if the OP wants to learn how just to learn how, he should reduce his gear inches to 72 or below and lead the technique by pulling up on the forward leg, instead of locking the trailing leg and then pulling up on the forward leg.
In your mind, initiate the movement with the thought of hitting the handlebar with your knee and then your hips; your trailing leg will do the right thing.

I brake by back pedaling, and I inadvertently skid on a regular basis.
In my humble opinion, once the skid begins, the bike skids further than it would have if held just at the edge of skidding.

nice thread bro i learned on a fix mt. bike
cheers

i would advise against worrying about weight transfer. It's more of an adamant approach to the skid. Think in your mind "no matter what i am going to hold these pedals horizontal". To do so it will take both your front and back leg working together. Don't worry about leaning forward because if you rely on that, you won't be able to stop as fast. Watch Andy's portion of mash if you want to learn how to do a seated (or close to it) whip.

i would go to an area of grass, or super slick pavement like a skatepark or an indoor basketball court, which is the best of the three, and just practice there.

I'm interested in learning how to stop more quickly, that is all. I'm using a front brake now, but just wanted further advice on the matter.


You will not stop any faster by skidding than you will by properly applying your front brake.
You'll actually take longer to stop.

nuts on the stem. thats the advice that helped me most.
its fun to skid and all, and probably a good skill to have when riding a fixed gear, but when you actually need to stop brakes are where it is at.

Ok, what am I doing wrong? I lock my right leg when the pedal is at 6 o'clock, lean forward, pull up on left leg...and still, it takes all of my strength to get even the most minor of skids...

Suggestions?

Install a front brake. Unless you want to hurt yourself, there is no reason why you should use a skid as your primary braking source.

I'm interested in learning how to stop more quickly, that is all. I'm using a front brake now, but just wanted further advice on the matter.


quoth the OP

as long as ur not tarcking, keep ur front brake
its good to have in emergency situations

Install a front brake. Unless you want to hurt yourself, there is no reason why you should use a skid as your primary braking source.

I think it's the people who avoid doing something fun because it's dangerous who are the masochists, not the other way around. And besides, you can always manage the risks when you know you're taking them, i.e. when you're having a dicking around sesh on your bike. That way, when your front brake cable snaps, and the risks are real, you'll be way more prepared than the guy who always rode a front brake "because what if you throw a chain dude?" and he suddenly realizes that sometimes the other thing happens too.

as for braking, just go with a break and anticipate by slowing leg speed... as for skidding, you are not smashing your nuts against the stem, it takes a few painful tries, but you need to get as much weight forward and you will eventually figure how to do it without damage to the crotchal region

as for braking, just go with a break and anticipate by slowing leg speed... as for skidding, you are not smashing your nuts against the stem, it takes a few painful tries, but you need to get as much weight forward and you will eventually figure how to do it without damage to the crotchal region

YOU DONT LEAN FORWARD TO SKID. ARGH this is a misconception. Nuts to stem skids are different than slowing down skids

Think in your mind "no matter what i am going to hold these pedals horizontal".

Sounds like a surefire approach to injury.


when your front brake cable snaps, and the risks are real

lols... is this supposed to be serious?

I think there's something to the idea that not knowing the risks, or at least being unprepared and/or ignorant of the risks, is much more masochistic. That being said, I'll be riding the front brake until I feel comfortable (this means on hills too) without it. That's my goal.

That way, when your front brake cable snaps, and the risks are real, you'll be way more prepared than the guy who always rode a front brake "because what if you throw a chain dude?" and he suddenly realizes that sometimes the other thing happens too.

when is the last time you heard of a front brake cable snapping (never)

I've had two brake cables snap on me this year, it...does happen guys. once on the fixed bike was no problem, the freewheel was a bit scarier but I was ready for it to happen (it was a slow test ride) and ted shredded it. but I guess I should have freaked out and ridden into the curb instead!!

Install a front brake. Unless you want to hurt yourself, there is no reason why you should use a skid as your primary braking source.

maybe read the thread before further beating an already very dead horse.

...Watch Andy's portion of mash if you want to learn how to do a seated (or close to it) whip.


i watched it, and he's constantly doing it. Is his ratio/gear inches really low? i dont see anything other than he levels out his footing, and every time i've even come close to attempting it, i get the "bucking" sensation..

you gotta tilt your bike hard, too. When your back wheel is sideways, it wants to slide a lot more. Figure out how to feel like you're almost falling over (andy does at one point) and then pull it back from there. and go out when it's raining!

don't tilt too hard. you should learn how to do it first with dry ground because that way you have a bit more traction on the ground and won't slip as easily. it's all about feeling out your balance and doing a tail whip in the rain is not too smart for someone who doesn't have the technique down first.

* I mean doing it in the rain will make it easier though but I don't recommend it, regular skidding is fine to do in the rain though since you'll be more centered over the bike

Word, it's veery easy to lose control when it's wet. You learn how to be soft with your movements so you don't tip the bike over. And you don't get as tired as fast. When it's dry, it's more about raw effort to break traction, but you can also use the extra grip to throw nastier fishtails. I'm actually still really new to sit-down skiddin, but I like to mix it up practising on rainy and dry days because you can work on different aspects of your skid while other parts are easier.

here's a nice rear view of how it's done
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Mik5AKGYnw

on this note, can many of you skid comfortably without proper foot retention and being able to pull up?

ive been curious

I can skid w/o clips and straps. takes coordination and a bit of getting used to but it's definitely very doable but not too convenient

not to hijack, but should be helpfull information at either rate

ive really banged up my knees alot recently from playing hockey, and pulling way to high of a gear on my pedicab, both are my own fault, but at either rate i have been finding it painful and a struggle to skid so im trying to make it as easy on myself as possible, im running a 48/17 setup so maybe stepping down to something pus is a good idea and then just refining my technique as others have stated in this thread?

my typical technique is to wait for front pedal to orbit around start by lifting and then put weight down as soon as i get to the proper point, i think its damaging my knee, :s

if you don't already have one get a brake. you really don't want to mess up your knees with skidding and you should be fair to your knees and give them proper rest. I don't do it a lot because I find it unnecessary 95% of the time. My general feeling is if you are constantly skidding (in a place that's not hilly), you're not riding well planned. I usually slow down on flats by backpedaling but use the brake exclusively on hills. Skips are reserved for quick speed modulations/maneuvering.

i don't skid that much, and i do ride a front brake, and I'm not a show off but i cant deny that i do enjoy it, :(

your right, i should be taking it easy

ps, in regards to the mash videos

skids downhill = cake

weight is transfered forwards when traveling downhill

right on, I hear you on it being fun and it being easy on a hill

Reduce your gear inches

(I'm a noob to all this, go easy)

Is it easier to skid with lower gears? Right now my bike is 48/16 and I'm having a hell of a time getting a skid, unless its on a rainy basketball court..and even then its a struggle to keep the wheel in place :(

yea it is easier

anyone who posts "use a front brake" needs to shut up already. its not funny, we all understand the need for brakes, we all get how you think everyone who doesnt run one is an idiot, naive, etc. no ones arguing your point.....but for god's sake, if theres a thread about skidding, LET POEPLE WHO ACTUALLY SKID HANDLE THE THREAD.

anyone who posts "use a front brake" needs to shut up already. its no9t funny, we all understand the need for brakes, we all get how you think everyone who doesnt run one is an idiot, naive, etc. no ones arguing your point.....but for god's sake, if theres a thread about skidding, LET POEPLE WHO ACTUALLY SKID HANDLE THE THREAD.

don't worry I don't think you're an idiot for not running a brake because I too do it from time to time (I just don't grab the brakes). I agree, let the thread topic lead on and stop derailing it with the obvious. I think EVERYONE should learn how to do all the necessary movements when riding fixed regardless if they use them frequently or not. I think it's always good to have something to fall back on and it will only make you a better rider. The way you'll, who advocate the constant use of a front brake, talk about using it to slow down, you'd think we all ride single speed and not fixed gears. It IS possible to slow down other ways besides a brake on these kind of bikes and you should let all others who are curious on how to do it, ask how to do it. Even Sheldon knew how to do it all and gives a tutorial on how to do it.