Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Brooks B17 saddle rivets like "warts".

First, I'm not a 'troll' and before the shouts of blasphemy, I have an issue with my new B17 saddle. Last week I received my 'new' Brooks B17 Standard (black w/ss rivets) and I'm a bit concerned if there's a 'quality' issue going on at Brooks (still waiting on Brooks' email response to my problem).

The stainless rivets along the back are raised, rather than flush. Two of the rivets I can get a fingernail under the head, and on one of the two, you can actually see daylight under the head.

I don't wear padded shorts (nor feel that I should have too), and when sliding back on the seat the rivets stick into my bony butt.

Has anyone experienced this problem? When Proofide'd, will the leather 'swell' that much? I'm not sure that it will.

Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks..........

Wonderful. Here's the Brooks response:
This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
Your message was not delivered because the destination computer was
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First, I'm not a 'troll' and before the shouts of blasphemy, I have an issue with my new B17 saddle. Last week I received my 'new' Brooks B17 Standard (black w/ss rivets) and I'm a bit concerned if there's a 'quality' issue going on at Brooks (still waiting on Brooks' email response to my problem).

The stainless rivets along the back are raised, rather than flush. Two of the rivets I can get a fingernail under the head, and on one of the two, you can actually see daylight under the head.

I don't wear padded shorts (nor feel that I should have too), and when sliding back on the seat the rivets stick into my bony butt.

Has anyone experienced this problem? When Proofide'd, will the leather 'swell' that much? I'm not sure that it will.

Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks..........


There's some variation from one Brooks to another, because of the variation in one piece of leather to the next. But because you say you can actually see daylight beneath at least one of the rivets, I think you have reason for a return or refund. I've got three B-17's, on all of them the rivets more or less sit flush with the leather, in fact the rivets pretty much press into the leather a little. Proofide won't make a difference with this.

Wonderful. Here's the Brooks response:
This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
Your message was not delivered because the destination computer was
not reachable within the allowed queue period. The amount of time
a message is queued before it is returned depends on local configura-
tion parameters.
Most likely there is a network problem that prevented delivery, but
it is also possible that the computer is turned off, or does not
have a mail system running right now.
Your message was not delivered within 4 days and 0 hours.
Host brookssaddles.com is not responding.
The following recipients did not receive this message:
<sales@brookssaddles.com>

I had no problem logging on to brookssaddles.com within seconds. However that is Brooks website in England. I would suggest that you go back to the shop that sold you the saddle, or if you purchased it online then go back to that vendor. Either should be able to assist you to rectify the problem through the U.S. distributor for Brooks.

First, I'm not a 'troll' and before the shouts of blasphemy, I have an issue with my new B17 saddle. Last week I received my 'new' Brooks B17 Standard (black w/ss rivets) and I'm a bit concerned if there's a 'quality' issue going on at Brooks (still waiting on Brooks' email response to my problem).

The stainless rivets along the back are raised, rather than flush. Two of the rivets I can get a fingernail under the head, and on one of the two, you can actually see daylight under the head.

I don't wear padded shorts (nor feel that I should have too), and when sliding back on the seat the rivets stick into my bony butt.

Has anyone experienced this problem? When Proofide'd, will the leather 'swell' that much? I'm not sure that it will.

Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks..........

Find the receipt/packing slip, put it back in the box and take it back!

You should NOT have to wear padded shorts with that saddle unless you're really putting in some miles.

Out of all the saddles Brooks makes, there are bound to be some that are less (or way less) than perfect.

That sounds like an issue that needs fixing, and I suspect Brooks will take care of you. Rivets on my B17 and my wife's B67 both are flush with the leather.

That said, I have often found that while I could get a company to fix a small issue for me, it is often easier to get it fixed locally for a small cost and no headache. I would go to a shoe repair shop or a horse saddle maker and see if they can either fix or replace.

http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=113212

Andrea Men is Brooks Marketing Rep and has been conducting the user testing of the Brooks Imperial saddle here at BikeForums. PM him.

As other have stated, there is variation in the saddles. I had one with raised rivets, but it didn't bother my big fat butt. If possible, take it back.

You can try to tap the rivets with a hammer.
The Brooks Standard is assembled by robots. The ones with bigger copper rivets are assembled by people.

http://www.branfordbike.com/images/saddles/brooks/handmade.jpg

Gap under the rivets is not normal. Just return/exchange with the place you purchased, contacting Brooks will not get you anywhere quickly, they will likely recommend exchanging it.
Al

Thanks all for your suggestions. I've packed it up and it goes back in the morning. In the mean time, another saddle is currently on it's way. Hopefully, it will have less flaws.

And thanks 'dobber', I've shot Andrea a short msg.

Ride safe all....

huh, I would have just smacked the rivets with a hammer.

FWIW, I don't own a Brooks, nor do I plan to, but when Andrea was in the forum recruiting testers for their new models, he was the epitome of class and efficiency when it came to accurately responding to inquiries. I have no doubt that Brooks will treat you right.

huh, I would have just smacked the rivets with a hammer.

Doesn't work. They need to be solidly supported on the opposite site and the frame of the B17 makes it so it is near impossible to do so cleanly. Even it one can support them, they may not take the extra squishing well.
Al

So what's the status? I'm pretty sure that the admins have a good rapport with Brooks, and we'll assist any way we can. Andrea showed up when I was away, so I'm out of the loop.

Brooks B17 saddle rivets like "warts". Status:
~ I contacted Nashbar and ordered another B.17 Standard, receiving an apology, a 20% discount, and free shipping.
~ I returned the defective B.17 to Nashbar via the USPS ($10.45).
~ Andrea has contacted me and I've provided him the information on the seat. No further word from him, nor from Brooks.
~ The new B.17 has arrived and it's ss rivets (although some are raised slightly) is a bit better than the last one.

I would suspect that the Brooks 'B.17 Standard' production machinery is either out of alignment, or is becoming a bit worn with demand. Either way, I intend to keep this one and work with it. I've proofide it, and now have about 20 miles on it. So far so good, and the raised ss rivets are not nearly as pronounced as the last one was (even when sitting on it).

Thanks all for your responses, suggestions, and support. Ride safe....

I'm gonna borrow this thread for a bit.

I bought a Brooks B17 Special Copper Saddle about a month ago, this one:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/Full/11669-1.Jpg

However, I have now used it for about 200km and it's starting to break in...but...I can feel the large rivets pretty badly. Am I sitting too far back? Maybe I should tighten the saddle (already did it once)? How tight should it be? As tight as when it was brand new?

I guess tilting the saddle a bit upwards in the front (it's horizontal now) would help a bit but when I tried my pubic bone got really sore...

Does anyone have any magic advices for me? :)

FWIW, I don't own a Brooks, nor do I plan to, but when Andrea was in the forum recruiting testers for their new models, he was the epitome of class and efficiency when it came to accurately responding to inquiries. I have no doubt that Brooks will treat you right.

He was also one of the most kind and gracious people I met at Interbike 2008. If anyone has an issue with Brooks, let me know, and I will put you in touch with him.

And he's really tall. I'm 5'10".

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/2889534213_53bb4d12f5.jpg?v=0

I've had raised rivets before - remove the saddle from seat post and support under the rivet with a big punch - or a dowel rod will work in a pinch. Tap the rivet gently with a ball peen hammer until is suits your taste. Done.
If you browse the Brooks site you can actually see one of their employees do the exact same thing as they assemble the saddles.

I've had raised rivets before - remove the saddle from seat post and support under the rivet with a big punch - or a dowel rod will work in a pinch. Tap the rivet gently with a ball peen hammer until is suits your taste. Done.
If you browse the Brooks site you can actually see one of their employees do the exact same thing as they assemble the saddles.

When I buy a part I expect it to be be properly built. Why should I have to seat rivets in a saddle as expensive as a Brooks is when Brooks already pays for machines and people to do this job?

I once bought a Browing .22 rifle which turned out to have a defect in the chamber. It was an expensive gun, and I was annoyed to have to return a new gun to be repaired. 3 weeks later I received a replacement, but it wasn't the same one which I had sent them. As a way of apologizing for the defect, Browning sent me a new high grade rifle (fancy wood, gold engraving) that retailed for triple what I had paid for the basic level rifle.

Needless to say, I would never buy a firearm made by anyone else.

When I buy a part I expect it to be be properly built. Why should I have to seat rivets in a saddle as expensive as a Brooks is when Brooks already pays for machines and people to do this job? :(

I once bought a Browing .22 rifle which turned out to have a defect in the chamber. It was an expensive gun, and I was annoyed to have to return a new gun to be repaired. 3 weeks later I received a replacement, but it wasn't the same one which I had sent them. As a way of apologizing for the defect, Browning sent me a new high grade rifle (fancy wood, gold engraving) that retailed for triple what I had paid for the basic level rifle.

Needless to say, I would never buy a firearm made by anyone else.


This attitude seems to be the new way of thinking.*
I am not talking about fixing a broken product out of the box. but if it needs just a tap with a hammer I know I can fix it an be done in a minute or two. No need to send my saddle back and be without for a week or two (or longer!). not worth my time or effort or postage for that matter!.
I also have been know to trim the leather of my saddles or (GASP!) actually modify a saddle by punching holes and lacing it underneath. If something is defective with the saddle I will send it back and ask for a replacement. But a raised rivet edge is not defective in my book.

As far as other bike parts:
I will also grind my own bolts down if they are too long.
Tap threads in something that is stripped.
Grind off or drill out cable stops if they don't suit my tastes.
Make my own parts if I can't find one I like.
etc. etc. etc.

This also applies to my car and double for my house.

*This thread was written with a calm voice and NO smart ***** tone in my voice.

This attitude seems to be the new way of thinking.


so you would accept a new bike with a scratch in the paint? a new pair of jeans with a seam partially open? how about 25 cents back from a machine with 50 cent sodas... and you put in a dollar?

I don't think this is a new way of thinking at all... I think customers have long expected a product to work right and be right "out of the box."

I think shirking that responsibility to provide a good product is "the new way of thinking... "

Brooks has been doing this for a darn long time... evidently something slipped past their inspectors.

Brooks has been doing this for a darn long time... evidently something slipped past their inspectors.

This is a leather saddle, made in the UK. I'm no expert on their process, but it would seem to me that since leather expands and contracts, there is no way that you will ever get them 100% perfect, 100% of the time. I wouldn't be surprised if changes in temperature and humidity affect the initial construction. If it got wet before being ridden, then ended up someplace dry and hot, things can happen.

Conversely, if it's a flaw in the way this particular seat was made, fix it, get it fixed, return it, or whatever.
Personally, I think the OP needs to accept the fact that this is a product handmade by the same process Brooks has been using since forever.

This is a leather saddle, made in the UK. I'm no expert on their process, but it would seem to me that since leather expands and contracts, there is no way that you will ever get them 100% perfect, 100% of the time. I wouldn't be surprised if changes in temperature and humidity affect the initial construction. If it got wet before being ridden, then ended up someplace dry and hot, things can happen.

Conversely, if it's a flaw in the way this particular seat was made, fix it, get it fixed, return it, or whatever.
Personally, I think the OP needs to accept the fact that this is a product handmade by the same process Brooks has been using since forever.

Exactly. Hey the rivets are fine... it was the cow that was flawed. ;)

I really don't know if the fact that it's handmade and leather has anything to do with his issue. I do know that I rode my motorcycle home in the rain one night, and my expensive leather riding gloves have not fit the same since.

OP received defective product, returned defective product, received replacement. Nashbar, not being in business out of altruism, will then return the defective saddle to Brooks for credit. Brooks will check defect to see if there's something that needs to be corrected on their manufacturing line. Chances are, whatever went wrong has already been corrected as part of their QC feedback, and they may simply tell Nashbar to destroy the saddle instead of paying for return postage.

It happens in any manufacturing situation--a certain percentage of product is bound to go out on the low end of acceptable tolerances, or even beyond that, as defective. It's a fact of life, and expected in very small percentages of any manufacturing run. Hopefully quality control catches stuff like this before it ships, but sometimes not.

It's good to know about a potential problem in a widely known and loved product, but beyond that, this situation is a complete non-issue.