Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Is it worth $100 extra to have a lugged frame

Hi

I have seen and taken part in several posts about lugged SS/FG frames

They cost about an extra $100 over brazed frames like Kilo TT

So to find out how people actually like lugs for the money
we have gotten some to try out

http://bikeisland.com/images/pb013.jpg
http://www.bikeisland.com/images/pb011.jpg
http://www.bikeisland.com/images/pb002.jpg


What do you think? Worth the extra $100 over same type frame without lugs?

http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1100

Of course, if people really like lugs at that extra cost; we will be bringing a lot more

I think it looks great.
I would pay the extra $100 if it came small enough to fit me.
Which it doesn't
:(

go w/ lugs...they hide ugly welds.

I think that everyone on the board will likely prefer lugs - already you see posts that prefer the look of lugs.

However, I think for your market, no offense, such as the Kilo TT, people purchasing those bikes do not care so much about the "look" of lugs, and are there to, frankly, get a cheap bike.

i think it is worth $100

While you'll probably do more volume on the cheaper frame, enough people like lugs that I think you'll be able to sell plenty of lugged frames for the $100 upcharge.

Personally, I couldn't care less if it has lugs or not. I'm more worried about how it rides and holds up to hard sprints.

Lugs look great and I'm sure you'll have no problem with the $100 up-charge since you'll still be competitive with the cheapest lugged frames available. Sad to add braze on's though, I know your going to get lots of frowns on the frames for that. Everyone is all amped on a clean smooth frame right now as evidenced by every single re-painted conversion that dremeled the braze on's off. BTW I like that green a lot I used to have a bike painted that color and I always loved it!

They cost about an extra $100 over brazed frames like Kilo TT


I am a little confused, lugged frames are brazed, and non-lugged frames are welded (right?).


Personally, I couldn't care less if it has lugs or not. I'm more worried about how it rides and holds up to hard sprints.

Well, if you are worried about hard sprints you probably should be worried about welded/brazed. Welding hardens the metal near the weld and makes it more brittle. Brazed/lugged does not.

That said, when was the last time you saw the welds on a Surly Steamroller fail? I only know of one case of failure.

PS - Lugs look awesome, and hold some nostalgia for older riders.

Tabor, I believe the "braze-ons" he's referring to are the ones for the cable stops and the water bottle cage on on the frame.

This is a very nice lugged frame. When I replace my frame, I may order this frame, but the braze-ons will have me consider others. :(

I think it looks great.
I would pay the extra $100 if it came small enough to fit me.
Which it doesn't
:(

+1


More small sizes!

Well, if you are worried about hard sprints you probably should be worried about welded/brazed. Welding hardens the metal near the weld and makes it more brittle. Brazed/lugged does not.

Frames break in places other than the welds. The three lugged frames that I have owned all cracked in the BB shell or in the seat tube, just above the BB shell. Lugs really don't improve modern frames in any significant way. These days, lugs (and threaded forks) are mainly for fg fashion dorks and retrogrouch curmudgeons. They may look nice (to some), but not worth paying extra, if you ask me. Plus, lugged frames all look basically the same to me..similar diameter tubes, similar style of lugs (with some exceptions), and the lugs restrict what you can really do with the design of the frame.

At any rate, who cares...its a bike. I learned a long time ago to stop worshipping gear and just ride it.

Oh yeah! Absolutely.

And that green is beautiful.

Mike, you suck! :D

You know you're not suppose to bring out something better after I've already bought a Kilo.

But yea, if I was presented with this and the regular Kilo, I'd pay the extra $100. It looks great.

I love love love lugged bikes, but don't think I would pay an extra $100 for them unless it was something special, like that green with a contrasting white head tube and maybe white panels, or maybe chromed head lugs, stays, and fork crown. That would be hot. It looks like I'm in the minority on this one though.

worth the extra hundy if it's got sexy track geomoetry and no cable guides. If you could swing that plus straight bladed forks with that crown i would probably buy like 4.

worth the extra hundy if it's got sexy track geomoetry and no cable guides. If you could swing that plus straight bladed forks with that crown i would probably buy like 4.

I'd buy one today and just drop out of school to pay for it ;) I agree though geo is key and loose the cable guides! I like these drop outs way better FWIW.

SRSLY?
Cable guides and water bottle mounts totally ruined that otherwise great frame.

SRSLY?
Cable guides and water bottle mounts totally ruined that otherwise great frame.

x2


Pay the extra $100 for the lugged frame.

worth the extra hundy if it's got sexy track geomoetry and no cable guides. If you could swing that plus straight bladed forks with that crown i would probably buy like 4.

I agree aesthetically, but with a straight blade fork the smaller frames would overlap your dad. Definitely loose the cable guides, bottle mounts, and chain tensioners.

go w/ lugs...they hide ugly welds.

also they are sexy

I'm going to keep hijacking threads wanting an aluminum track bike from bikesdirect.

As for the lugs, eh.

I'd pay a $100.00 premium for those lugs.

I dont much mind the bottle mounts, but yeah, tighter geometry straight fork blades now!

I like it. But I'm a sucker for lugged steel.

Looks like it would make an ideal FS/SS utility bike (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=419651). If I were you, I'd pitch it to that market, which is growing quickly I notice.

Get rid of the brazed-on warts and make the head tube at least 74 degrees, and I will DEFINITELY purchase a frame.

I like it. But I'm a sucker for lugged steel.

Looks like it would make an ideal FS/SS utility bike (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=419651). If I were you, I'd pitch it to that market, which is growing quickly I notice.

Needs rack/fender mounts...

That green is sweet!

I'm going to keep hijacking threads wanting an aluminum track bike from bikesdirect.

As for the lugs, eh.

+1. Basically, copy the Pista Concept in overall geometry and tube diameter. Include a carbon fork.
Keep it track, but include at least a front brake hole for street versatility. I'd pay more than a $100 extra for that.

if I was in need of a new bike frame and had money, yes.

Why welded cable stops? D:

I would have bought a Concept knock off from BD if the price was right months ago... but then I went out and just got a regular old Concept.

But seriously, to echo the others, you killed it with the cable guides. Steepen the geometry by a single degree for ST and HT, keep the wheelbase tight, and you have a winner. I'd totally replace my abused, beat up KHS for a $300 lugged cr-mo frame if you implemented those few suggestions. Hell, I was prepared to start wading through eBay for some cheap old European track frames once mine died off...

I say NOPE but I just bought a carbon bike . While a thing of beauty it only adds weight. If you have the cash and like the look do it...If ya need the $ for assessories than F -it....:notamused:

looks beautiful... that said i like the look of a hydroformed/brazed/really beautifully welded frame like the caad8's more than a generic looking lugged frame. i'm sure these would sell well for you guys though.

Keep the water bottle bosses but lose the cable guides on the top tube.

Needs rack/fender mounts...

True enough. I travel light, so I didn't even notice.

Keep the slack angles, water bottle bosses and braze-ons, put a derailer hanger, canti posts, rack mounts and vertical dropouts on it and sell it as a sexy budget touring frame.

Those track fork ends are sexy, though.

Ditch the TT brazeons, and you've got a keeper.

Those dropouts are niice.

Cable/water bottle mounts gotta go in my opinion. But I guess there's a market for those.

:lol: Half of you want an NJS wannabe frame. The other half wants the complete opposite. Good luck BD Mike.

i read that as "NJS wantanabe"

hi-larious.

:lol: Half of you want an NJS wannabe frame. The other half wants the complete opposite. Good luck BD Mike.

It makes good sense to drop $300 on a lugged 4130 frame as opposed to $700+ on an NJS though, practically speaking. You get the same aesthetic but more rugged tubing for the street, and most people abuse the **** out of their street bikes anyway.

Besides, people have been asking for a cheap lugged track frame for years now, and while no one else has been able to fit the bill, BD nearly made the target - that is, until the TT guides and/or 73 degree angles.

I really appreciate the feedback

I understand and feel the feedback on braze-ons, eyelets, fender mounts, cable stops. And it seems we may need two versions of many SS/FG frames

I started adding eyelets and even racxk brakeons to lots of bikes a couple of years ago when I thought the long march to higher gas prices was starting. Now it is getting close to where I thought it was headed 2 years ago [$5 / gallon]. I see how this effects people; and how it is effecting bicycle sales.

Now LOTS of our SS/FG customers want to commute and replace car trips with a ride.

I think the ultility of SS bikes is just now being seen by the general public; but they want/need braze-ons etc

But we may need to also keep some more 'pure' track frames

{interesting note: some pure cyclo cross types were not happy with addition of eyelets and rack brazeons to our CX bikes - and many think it is stupid for our top Ti CX bike to also have disc tabs. But lots of buyers of CX bikes use them for commuting; just as many track bikes are used on street**

Thanks again

Mike

If you released that frameset with 1 degree steeper seat and head tube, no cable stops (in my opinion rack/fender mounts are fine) and contrasting lugs you would have a frame that outsells the Kilo TT

BD Mike, you make perfect business sense.

But I still want a lugged frame with at least 74 degree tube angle and no brake guides and water-bottle holes. ;)

id like to see something with really steep angles no brakeholes, wb mounts, rack things, etc
+1 for the 'pure track bike'

pure track bike sounds awesome, and if it's lugged all the better... i'd still rather have a fuji track pro - style frame even though it turned out to be just as heavy. i think there's going to be just as many people wanting a 'new tech' pure track frame as will want an njs style one.

BD Mike, you make perfect business sense.

But I still want a lugged frame with at least 74 degree tube angle and no brake guides and water-bottle holes. ;)

I do too... now. I have an IRO Mark V that I love for commuting, but I'm now feeling the need for a pure track bike that I can use...on the track. But I don't want to drop a ton of money for a part time hobby.

This frame looks like it came off the same production line as a road bike frame, except for the horizontal dropouts.

It probably has a road height bottom bracket shell, which gives me some concern for pedal strike, although 165mm cranks seem to work with a road height bottom bracket.

=====


Half of you want an NJS wannabe frame.

"NJS wannabe?"

I like track geometry and minimalism on an urban street fixed gear bike.

In that application, track geometry and minimalism makes more sense to me than "Tour de France wannabe" road geometry, brake cable guides and water bottle bosses.

Water bottles?

My longest typical ride, 7.5 miles, takes me about half an hour with urban traffic and stop lights.
I can make it for half an hour without a water bottle.

=====

My dream frame would have no holes nor braze-ons, and 59cm Bianchi Pista geometry (75 degree head and seat tubes, sloping top tube, high bottom bracket shell, and a fork with a 28mm rake).

If I ever get the frame described above, I will probably have to go to someone who fillet brazes frames.

...I still want a lugged frame with at least 74 degree tube angle and no brake guides and water-bottle holes.

+1

"NJS wannabe?"

I like track geometry and minimalism on an urban street fixed gear bike.

In that application, track geometry and minimalism makes more sense to me than "Tour de France wannabe" road geometry, brake cable guides and water bottle bosses.

Water bottles?

My longest typical ride, 7.5 miles, takes me about half an hour with urban traffic and stop lights.
I can make it for half an hour without a water bottle.

=====

My dream frame would have no holes nor braze-ons, and 59cm Bianchi Pista geometry (75 degree head and seat tubes, sloping top tube, high bottom bracket shell, and a fork with a 28mm rake).

If I ever get the frame described above, I will probably have to go to someone who fillet brazes frames.


Ken, your persistent and unwavering fanatic devotion to your Pista and its geometry makes me :roflmao2: