Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Newbie with tips for new and old

Ok, only been riding a road bike for a month or so, but I am wondering why don't other bikers have as much energy and power as I do.

Here is a quick intro. I am 6'1" @ 225. I was a fullback in college and maintained my muscle mass through out my 8 years in the military. AFter getting out i turned the muscle into fat :cry:, but have recently gotten back into somewhat better shape (still have a long way to go). I am big in the shoulders and also have huge quads from hiking and lots of leg presses.

On a lot of recent road rides I have ridden with riders who have been riding for years and even some who have raced in the past. All the riders have much better bikes than mine (i have an 07 allez elite triple) and are in much better shape (i.e. skinny and the "typical" biker). but when it comes time to ride I always seem to pull away from them after the first 10 miles or so and the groups pace is just too slow for me. We have done some 50 milers recently and I find myslef leading the group and always breaking through the wind for the group and I also seem to climb the mountains here (in denver right now) much faster and recover faster than the others.

My insight is that I have learned that most of the bikers i have seen don't do much in the line of working out other than biking (i.e. weights or hiking) and are not breathing correctly (ie. full deep breath from the bottom of the chest is best). Also, they always want to accelerate by getting out of the saddle, while I have found it easiest to stay in the saddle and maintain aerodynamics.

Personally, I look forward to getting in better shape and it feels great now to be able to blow away a skinny little biker on a $4k bike. I now look forward to doing a 100miler and working on more.

your inputs are welcome.

Ok, only been riding a road bike for a month or so, but I am wondering why don't other bikers have as much energy and power as I do.

I guess you're just a studmuffin, and everybody else is a weakling.

I guess you're just a studmuffin, and everybody else is a weakling.

No, I am saying that the bikers I have come across are not doing proper training to increase their potential. I know that I am not and never will be a professional rider, but I am able to recognize where there are training lapses.

Just like any other sport you can't go out and simply train for that sport, you must combine a strength training regime that is geared towards further developing muscle groups that are benificial to your sport.

It must be wonderful to be such a superior person. I envy you.

guys and gals I am not trying to sound superior, I am trying to point out weaknesses in training techniques most have. If you want to see improvements in your riding abilities I was simply trying to help out by offering my tips.

If you have taken it as a post trying to post I am better than you , well I can say this, I am not better than anyone else here, we are all created equal, it is training that set folks apart from the rest. I will never be a world class cyclist, but I will train the best I can to aid my cycling abilities.

Maybe the folks who posted just have a problem with the fact that I recommend breathing techniques and doing someting other than just riding in order to improve on bike ability.

Use the advice as you see fit, but please keep your childish comments to yourselves.

No, I am saying that the bikers I have come across are not doing proper training to increase their potential. I know that I am not and never will be a professional rider, but I am able to recognize where there are training lapses.

Just like any other sport you can't go out and simply train for that sport, you must combine a strength training regime that is geared towards further developing muscle groups that are benificial to your sport.


1. 'bikers' ride motorcycles.

2. recreational riding is more recreation than sport...duh. Many folks don't feel the need to 'train', they just ride.

3. Pay your one day license fee, enter a race, pin on your number, show up at the line, then come back here after you've been shelled and tell us how superior your conditioning is...keeping in mind that you just got your butt handed to you by the 'beginners' class of bike racing.

4. you ain't the only ex-military in the world, son, and what you think you know is hardly a secret.

thanks for the heads up chipcom,

I guess i will go and enter a race when I get in better shape.

I also know I am not the only ex military person here, but I didn't make that an issue you did. I also know that a very few of those in the military actually train the rest are REMF types that gripe and moan about doing PT (oh and by the way the average PT regime is a joke compared to what a person needs to do in order to stay fit and actually improve their physique).

I was just offering my advice, take it for what it is worth (FREE).

Step up your competition and riding partners. Guys that I thought were good for 3 or 4 years won't even ride with me now that I've ridden with better rider and raised the level!:innocent:

If the skinny guys can't drop you, then they aren't good riders. I know of about 10 out here that will always tear me a new one no matter how hard I train. But then again, they are the top riders of the big climbing events around here! 10-12,000 ft centuries.

You've got alot to learn newbie!:roflmao2:

thanks for the heads up chipcom,

I guess i will go and enter a race when I get in better shape.

I also know I am not the only ex military person here, but I didn't make that an issue you did. I also know that a very few of those in the military actually train the rest are REMF types that gripe and moan about doing PT (oh and by the way the average PT regime is a joke compared to what a person needs to do in order to stay fit and actually improve their physique).

I was just offering my advice, take it for what it is worth (FREE).

Best way to get in shape for a race is to race. I'm 48, 240lbs and just quit smoking...if I can go out and get shelled, so can you.

And please stow the REMF stuff...those that bandy it about usually are wannabes who never really saw a shot fired in anger...if you actually have a CAR, I'd hate to see you lumped in with them.

Here's the profile of a ride that several of us weakling SoCal clydes have done. 12,000ft of climbing, most in the first 72 miles of the 114 mile ride. I did it on a standard double (39/25) cause I'm so weak at 6'1 235 lbs!:D


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/gulpxtreme/BAProfile.jpg

great guys, good for you and your abilities.

reread my posts and realize that i am not on an I am holy than thou' trip.

Also, mr beanz that is impressive. I was hoping to do a denver to dillon trip soon which is only reaching the 9k elevation mark, but nothing like yours. I might hit pikes peak before I head back to AZ, but as of last week there was a lot of snow on it still and I don't have any winter riding gear.

great for you guys!

Oh and chipcom we can compare racks any day, oh and if you read my user profile take note of the disabled vet part, so yes I did see combat.

thaks guys for thinking I am out to say you all suck and I am better when in reality (mine anyway) I am just trying to offer my incite and since I am a newbie to road biking (long time mtb'er) I have a lot to learn, but when it comes to training for strength gains and targeting specific "zones" to achieve better performance I know what I am talking about.

Have a great day!

UF, crosstraining is a good thing. ;) I personally think you were trying to genuinely share some insights. It just got perceived wrong....these things happen ;)

Keep at it, and I'd also like to encourage you to race as well. It's a ripping hoot, win, lose or draw. You might just find out though that the cyclists you are dropping are weaker riders than you will encounter on a Crit circuit. ;)

Welcome to the boards. I'm sorry that your introduction was met with such rude responses from some of the other members. As with anything on the Interwebs, there are some people who are ruder than others. This forum is no different.

That being said, though, you did come across a little arrogant. Not enough to justify the tone of the responses you got, IMHO, though.

In-shape clydes can have a big advantage over their smaller cousins. You may not be as light as they are, but you've got the advantage of having to push that carriage around all day long, while they don't. Given that you've also had significant training in physical conditioning, it's not a big surprise that you can outpace lighter riders. Like others have said, you just need to find better riders if you want to use a group to push yourself. Or you can do some racing. That's not for everybody. Personally, I really prefer riding alone where it's just me and the road. As always, YMMV.

Yeah, I don't know why people are jumping on your case here. Crosstraining works, end of discussion. That extra strength comes in handy over the long haul.

OMG, did this turn into the Roadie Forum? I never experienced such hostility towards a poster before. We were all newbies at one point or another. It could be that the folks UF is riding with are just not at the same level as him.

UF, one thing I picked up in your post is that you always seem to be leading the rides and breaking through the wind(glad you didn't say "Breaking the wind" which could very well be interpreted differently). I am not sure if you are aware of drafting or not but the ideal place to be is behind a big guy (like you) so he can pull you which results in you not expending as much energy. The guys that have been riding for years are probably taking advantage of you being a newbie and making you do all the work for them. With your background in football and the military probably puts you ahead of the game when it comes to riding. Since your legs have been trained properly over the years where the other guys probably just always rode bikes, your legs are most likely stronger and in better shape then the guys you ride with. Also along with your football and military training comes mental toughness to push through the hard stuff where some guys will cave and not push themselves.

No, I am saying that the bikers I have come across are not doing proper training to increase their potential. I know that I am not and never will be a professional rider, but I am able to recognize where there are training lapses.

Just like any other sport you can't go out and simply train for that sport, you must combine a strength training regime that is geared towards further developing muscle groups that are benificial to your sport.

But that all presupposes that you and they have identical goals. That's a big assumption to make, and probably an incorrect one. Your background is the organized sport of football, where you can make some fairly reliable statements about what players' goals are -- what you're talking about now is a club ride. You don't know that any of these people is in any way interested in "increas[ing] their potential", and you haven't even answered the question, "Potential to do what?" Climb Mount Washington? Hang with the peloton on stage 3 of the Tour de France? Get to work every morning without getting turned into a bad-smelling paste by a crosstown bus? Stave off incipient diabetes? Or just take a ride with some friends?

Your theories of training for your stated goals will be proved out -- or they won't -- as you get more more miles to pass under your wheels. Your theories of how others should train for goals that you don't know about will go nowhere.

UF, crosstraining is a good thing. ;) I personally think you were trying to genuinely share some insights. It just got perceived wrong....these things happen ;)

Keep at it, and I'd also like to encourage you to race as well. It's a ripping hoot, win, lose or draw. You might just find out though that the cyclists you are dropping are weaker riders than you will encounter on a Crit circuit. ;)

Imagine if he had posted this in the Road forum! :eek:

Also, mr beanz that is impressive. I was hoping to do a denver to dillon trip soon which is only reaching the 9k elevation mark, but nothing like yours. I might hit pikes peak before I head back to AZ, but as of last week there was a lot of snow on it still and I don't have any winter riding gear.
Have a great day!

Actually I learned on my first century with 10,000 ft, if you can do 5,000, you can do 10! That's My opinion!:D

I do know what you mean about the training. I hit the gym with m daughter 3 or 4 nigths a week. We pump iron but I make her use percect form and with intensity. Then off to some cardio. Jumping rope with light hand weight sets between each 100 jumps. She leaves red in the face, messy hair and a good sweat! I often have her take a look around at the 50 or so people on the treadmills etc. 98% of them are wasting time. Reading, chatting, flirting, not my idea of a workout!

Before I started cycling, I was seriously pumping iron. Converting it to the bike, I had plenty of strength and surprisisingly cardio which many doubted. Before I got more serious, I was challenged by a few vegetarian coworker cyclists. They said I more than likely had no cardio. They realized they were wrong when one pulled over to puke. They cut the ride short then limped home!:roflmao2:

So I get what you're saying! :thumb:

I luv this thread. Normally I have to wade through tons of junk to find a decent flame war in the road forum.

Hey Chipcom, have you felt any performance improvement from quitting smoking?

I luv this thread. Normally I have to wade through tons of junk to find a decent flame war in the road forum.

Hey Chipcom, have you felt any performance improvement from quitting smoking?



I've seen several other posts by others that deserve some questioning and/or flaming. But seems some are excused for such behavior or comments. Really questionable when you read posts of past performances then claim dominance on the bike.:roflmao2:

I luv this thread. Normally I have to wade through tons of junk to find a decent flame war in the road forum.

Hey Chipcom, have you felt any performance improvement from quitting smoking?

Seriously...not yet (it'll be 4 weeks Saturday). My doc was always ticked that my pulmonary capacity was way better than he'd expect from a smoker. There is one noticeable benefit though...this stuff I am coughing up is pretty chewy and takes my mind off climbing. :eek:

No flame wars here...in this forum they come fast, burn hot, then burn out into misunderstandings as everyone joins hands and sings kumbya. I never get to hold the gals hands...and I resent it, thus my surly attitude. :p

Seriously...not yet (it'll be 4 weeks Saturday). My doc was always ticked that my pulmonary capacity was way better than he'd expect from a smoker. There is one noticeable benefit though...this stuff I am coughing up is pretty chewy and takes my mind off climbing. :eek:

No flame wars here...in this forum they come fast, burn hot, then burn out into misunderstandings as everyone joins hands and sings kumbya. I never get to hold the gals hands...and I resent it, thus my surly attitude. :p

And don't forget the pennies you are saving. You can add that to the petrol..sorry gas...fund.

As for the hand holding...i'll give you a hug..but not for too long..tongues will wag

thanks for the heads up chipcom,

I guess i will go and enter a race when I get in better shape.

I also know I am not the only ex military person here, but I didn't make that an issue you did. I also know that a very few of those in the military actually train the rest are REMF types that gripe and moan about doing PT (oh and by the way the average PT regime is a joke compared to what a person needs to do in order to stay fit and actually improve their physique).

I was just offering my advice, take it for what it is worth (FREE).


no that not fair on a few points.

A you are complining about your club riders ot paccing you.. but when you want to step up to racing now you need to get in better shape.?

B not all personel that dont work out are REMF. i was always on the pointy end and we never worked out.

you dont know what their trianing regiminen is..
lets say you have a few good racers in your club that you are dropping. they may have an event that they want to be ready for. and not have legs of muush.

I've seen several other posts by others that deserve some questioning and/or flaming. But seems some are excused for such behavior or comments. Really questionable when you read posts of past performances then claim dominance on the bike.:roflmao2:

In keeping with the spirit of this thread..shut up and go ride another 23 centuries!:D

In keeping with the spirit of this thread..shut up and go ride another 23 centuries!:D


OK, I'm going for a ride then!:giver:............:D

Everybody's ablilites are different and are achieved via different efforts. There's a pot bellied wrench at one of the local shops that daily drops the hammer on the local roadie racer wannabes. Hell he does it to the pro's too.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread..shut up and go ride another 23 centuries

yup, plan on one hopefully this weekend (weather permitting).

Anyway, sorry if I came off brash and Mr. Beanz I totally agree with the cardio. I actually was a long distance runner in a past life and can still do a good 10k in a decent time. Combine the running with a little kempo-karate, some yoga and aeorobics and then add some serious weight lifting and you have a well rounded regime, then top it off with cycling.

I originally thought the same thing about the more experienced riders just getting a "free ride" off me being the lead in the group, but realized that they really couldn't keep up. I have been riding in the "fast" group for the local rides, but I agree that I really need to find better riders.

Now for races, anyone know where I can find races in AZ or western NM or eastern California? I think I should be ready for one in early july when I get back to AZ. I know that I will most likely get smoked pretty bad by the pro's and semi-pro's but just competing will be a blast.

Now, back to my original post, the breathing thing is an absolute necesity for full power from your body and then a faster recovery later. It was suprising how much improvement I saw from some of the riders that tried out my method instead of their short and shallow types of breath.

happy trails to all and see you on the road.

Aside from being "deep", what exactly is your breathing method?

Now for races, anyone know where I can find races in AZ or western NM or eastern California? I think I should be ready for one in early july when I get back to AZ. I know that I will most likely get smoked pretty bad by the pro's and semi-pro's but just competing will be a blast.

You won't get smoked by them because you won't be racing with them. You'll start with the rest of the cat 5 guys (beginners) -- the elites will be long gone, and you won't be catching them.

You probably want to learn some racing techniques before you jump in, or you'll unwittingly end up doing things that are somewhere in the range from impolite to dangerous. You may be able to haul ass on your club rides, but that doesn't mean you can ride safely in a peloton.

No problemo with me UF! It's fun when someone stirs the pot a bit!:D I knew what you meant so I had no problem, justt knew what you were in for! Fun! Fun! Fun!:D

As far as pros? Geez! I went to some training rides with cat 3-5's. I thought they were fast till one night a pro showed up. It was a 1.5 mile loop. He lapped the field a few times by himself!:eek:.....and laughing while he didi it!:D

BTW, back from my ride!.....The one time I don't lsiten to the weather dude, is the one time he is right! Got one mile then started pouring rain! I waited about 20 minutes under a tree, not clearing up so I waited for a break then made it home only to have to cleanup the bike....again!:D

Now, back to my original post, the breathing thing is an absolute necesity for full power from your body and then a faster recovery later. It was suprising how much improvement I saw from some of the riders that tried out my method instead of their short and shallow types of breath.
I have had pneumonia twice and TB once. Have Two bad disc's in my back. Rode 3700 miles this year.
I feel real bad every time you pass me up.
Mr Beanz is Batman You are Robin. Go Get um.
Let me know when you have your first crash.
Please post a photo of your rear on your saddle, so that we will know it is you when you pass.
Thanks

I'd rather be the Green Hornet. He has a much nicer suit!:D

I'd rather be the Green Hornet. He has a much nicer suit!:D

Your The Green Hornet.

Personally, I look forward to getting in better shape and it feels great now to be able to blow away a skinny little biker on a $4k bike. I now look forward to doing a 100miler and working on more.

Forgot to add my bike cost $800 and I have asthma.
Yes I am now skinny @ 198 lbs.
Thanks for Serving in Iraq.

i would say you need a new group. out of curiosity what pace is the group going at? alot of people should skip the "C" group if they are already fit. Cross training has its place, but riding your bike will make you better at cycling everytime.

Your The Green Hornet.


Yeah just remember it was Kato kicking butt

You won't get smoked by them because you won't be racing with them. You'll start with the rest of the cat 5 guys (beginners) -- the elites will be long gone, and you won't be catching them.

You probably want to learn some racing techniques before you jump in, or you'll unwittingly end up doing things that are somewhere in the range from impolite to dangerous. You may be able to haul ass on your club rides, but that doesn't mean you can ride safely in a peloton.

+1 million


Now for races, anyone know where I can find races in AZ or western NM or eastern California? I think I should be ready for one in early july when I get back to AZ. I know that I will most likely get smoked pretty bad by the pro's and semi-pro's but just competing will be a blast. The source (http://scnca.org/) for racing in SoCal. There's also CBR (http://www.californiabicycleracing.org/) events. I'm sure Arizona has something similar. SCNCA regularly publishes dates/info about select AZ races.

In my case, I'm riding to get in better shape. The only lapses in my training have been a total lack of it. But yeah, if you've been working out all along, you're going to be better than people that haven't at a lot of things, not just bicycling.

If all you were interested in was bicycling, you'd probably actually lose some muscle mass from your arms and chest. It's that much dead weight that doesn't help you go faster. If you want to look good or impress women or something, that's different.

Ah this thread was good for a laugh, thanks UF!

Considering your background I think you would have a blast doing a triathalon or a cyclocross event. If you ever do decide to race be sure to let us know how it turned out for you. Believe it or not we'll still be rootin for ya.

In my case, I'm riding to get in better shape. The only lapses in my training have been a total lack of it. But yeah, if you've been working out all along, you're going to be better than people that haven't at a lot of things, not just bicycling.

If all you were interested in was bicycling, you'd probably actually lose some muscle mass from your arms and chest. It's that much dead weight that doesn't help you go faster. If you want to look good or impress women or something, that's different.

Believe it or not, some guys have a hard time shedding muscle mass. I know a former weightlifter who is an ultra-cyclist and can't get rid of his upper body mass to save his life. His arms are so big the jerseys leave ring marks from the sleeves.

Yep post some number so we know what kind of speeds and times we're talking about here.

I can average about 16-17mph so that puts me at the top of the slow group rides around here. The middle group is an 18mph+ no drop ride and and "fast group" is a 18mph+ every person for themselves hammerfest. That fast groups are averaging way into the 20's and I couldn't even hang with them for a mile much less a 40 mile loop.