Alt Bike Culture - 4000 dollar bikes:I just dont get it.

What does a $4000.00 bike have over maybe a $1000.00 bike,I just dont get it,but if the difference is weight than just pedal harder and buikd your muscles.Its not like making you car lighter and more aerodynamic to get better gas mileage.Just eat a few more hot dogs.

You cry more when it is stolen

Practical things:
- better frame/fork/saddle/bars --> better performance and perhaps better comfort
- better wheels --> better performance, better durability
- better drive train --> better performance, better durability

Intangible things:
- bling
- bragging rights
- overall satisfaction

Your recreational activities don't have to make sense, they should just make you happy.

Regards.

Riff raff who cannot afford $4,000 bikes will be jealous.

old nag < quarterhorse

kia < ferrari

natty light < glenlivet single malt

How many of us have $4000 AltBikes?

East Hill

Practical things:
- better frame/fork/saddle/bars --> better performance and perhaps better comfort
- better wheels --> better performance, better durability
- better drive train --> better performance, better durability

Intangible things:
- bling
- bragging rights
- overall satisfaction

Your recreational activities don't have to make sense, they should just make you happy.

Regards.

Summed up neatly in a nutshell.

I like good bikes. My personal limit for a new bike would be around $1,200. With my riding style, monies spent above that hit the law of diminishing returns. I'm happy with my 23 year old Univega Super Strada & Frankenhopper, a mix of surviving components bolted to a replacement frame.

Reverse snob-ism is worse than the good old fashioned kind. Always has the stink of jealousy lingering about. Wish buying a $4,000 bike was an option for me. I admire the technology and beauty of high end machinery of any kind.

Practical things:
- better frame/fork/saddle/bars --> better performance and perhaps better comfort
- better wheels --> better performance, better durability
- better drive train --> better performance, better durability

Intangible things:
- bling
- bragging rights
- overall satisfaction

Your recreational activities don't have to make sense, they should just make you happy.

Regards.

Completely agree about the practical items, technology seeks to improve performance and while most riders don't need a $4,000 bike some may just appreciate the performance factor of the higher end drive trains and other components. The intangible reasons are all pretty trivial but if people have that kind of money to spend then fair play to them, they just need to make sure they're not getting dropped by someone on a Huffy. Cycling is great because the rider is the engine so the real bragging rights come from how you ride and not what you're riding.
;)

Some people have more money than they know what to do with. My Surly Pacer + full 9 speed Ultegra cost more than $1000 to build up. Does that make me a bad person?

If you've got the money and don't need it for something else, why not buy a gold-plated bike with it?

On performance items in general, when you start getting to the better stuff, you wind up paying a LOT more to get a little more. You'd expect more of a difference between a $1000 bike and a $100 bike than between a $10,000 bike and a $1,000 bike. True of cars, watches, cameras, lots of other stuff. It'll be closer to a custom-made item, made in a high-labor place instead of China, made by people that aren't going to bother if they don't get some good income off of it, etc.

A $4,000 bike is still way cheaper than any new car sold.

the rider is the engine so the real bragging rights come from how you ride and not what you're riding.
+1 ... course I am the one who would not spend 4 thou. unles I really,,,really wanted it.

I wouldn't ever buy a 4K or more bike unless I was a multi-millionaire, but I actually very much support people who are well off spending as much of their money as possible. :)

Check out the testimonials at richardsachs.com and read the thoughts of many riders who find it utterly worthwhile to spend $4K on just a steel frameset. They felt it was worth it to get an absolutely top-notch product, made by a renowned artisan to fit their measurements exactly. If I had $4K plus components to spare, I'd probably do it too.

I'm blowing my economic stimulus check on a bunch of Phil Wood and Chris King to put on the steel road bike I plan to build this fall. I'm consciously spending top dollar for top quality bearings - I have a weakness for good bearings - that are made by honest, fairly-compensated American labor.

That road bike will probably run me around $2K once it's done. And I'm just a carfree high school teacher, not a multimillionare.

At the end, I guess some of us will pay for things other than acceptable function. People will pay for beyond-acceptable function. People will pay to support skilled workers in their own country. People will pay for the warm, fuzzy feeling that one person of extraordinary skill made the product especially for them.

It might be irrational. But people do it, and I don't think it's wrong.

I don't understand why someone would ever waste their time (and money) on building something as impractical as an alt. bike...just kidding, but hopefully you can see how this whole debate can be easily turned around on just about anything.

For the record, I do own an almost $4k bike (paid for with a well earned bonus from my employer) and it's the sweetest thing I've ever straddled. Most days I ride my $300 MTB to work though.

..........I'm blowing my economic stimulus check on a bunch of Phil Wood and Chris King to put on the steel road bike I plan to build this fall. I'm consciously spending top dollar for top quality bearings - I have a weakness for good bearings - that are made by honest, fairly-compensated American labor.

That road bike will probably run me around $2K once it's done. And I'm just a carfree high school teacher, not a multimillionare.
........

Let's see, $2,000 will get you a:

1) High mileage car that has a limited life span.

2) Functional motorcycle that's going to need some work.

3) A great bicycle that has a possible life span of 100 years.

Considering that I just put $60.00 worth of gas into my Camry, doesn't sound like a bad bargain.

http://www.vanillabicycles.com

ok im not one for spending ANYTHING on a bicycle, but DAMN these are sexy!

Had I ever married what I spent on some of my bikes would most likely have been the cause of an argument or two.

I build my bikes up piece meal, it's not as painful as coming off the hip all at once. It can take me a year or more to collect all the parts for a specific build, and the drivetrain is always the most expensive part.
What I get for my money is the exact bike I want.

3) A great bicycle that has a possible life span of 100 years.

Only if you want to dump money into it for replacing worn out parts.Its not uncommon for a bb and crankset costs $1500.00,which wear out in about 7 chains(7000 miles).

if you have the extra money and ur willing to spend it on something you love, why not?

I BOUGHT a $4100 bike.

A Lightfoot Roadrunner Magnum delta trike.

Why? I'm a double clyde, needed the strength.

Am I satisfied? Do I think it was worth it?

ABSOLUTELY!

Will I buy another bike that costs so much?

Well, this one is to let me exercise down to where I can use a more 'normal' bike; so I'm glad to say I probably won't NEED to buy another.

THANK GOD, because that was a lot of money and even tho I love my bike, parting with a chunk like that hurts!

RD

The same kind of people who ask that question probably wouldn't hesitate very long to buy the most expensive home theater system, the most expensive pro digital SLR camera, the most expensive car they can afford rather than just a basic no frills model, the most expensive cellphone, etc. If the money is spent on craftsmanship, such as the aforementioned Richard Sachs frame, or frames from other quality hand-made frame builders, I don't see anything wrong with it, simply because I'm not looking forward to the day when such builders no longer exist and all bikes come from the same factory in Taiwan. Most already do. Now, if you're talking about $4000 bikes from that same factory, well then I totally agree with you.

What does a $4000.00 bike have over maybe a $1000.00 bike

That would depend on the bike. I'd want custom as I have some fairly serious fit issues. So having your bike fit like a glove would be one thing.

Performance... there's a Roubaix in that ballpark now. I'd love to test ride it. But
what I would like is a Waterford that's a lot like my Gunnar Sport. I'd like a little
more BB stiffness, and for the wheelbase to be just a couple mm longer.

I'd also like it to look drop dead gorgeous. For that kind of money I could put
wheels on it that weigh a pound less than the ones I have.

But the choices are staggering. You could go custom carbon or get a Tarmac SL.
I have been wondering what it feels like to ride that. Too much bike for me, but it would be fun to try it once.

I spent almost that much on the pedal force RS2 I built, about $3800 if you consider the cost of parts I already had on hand [$1800] plus the cost of components I had to buy for the build[$2000]. It's all chorus with rol wheels and about 15 lbs., estimated. It's worth every penny, too, and the frame was half price. Oh, and it's from Taiwan - if you ever rode it you'd never disparage Taiwan again!

Only if you want to dump money into it for replacing worn out parts.Its not uncommon for a bb and crankset costs $1500.00,which wear out in about 7 chains(7000 miles).

Aside from the power meter cranksets (like SRM), I think the most expensive crank I've ever seen was $1000 (from Zipp) and that included a BB and a BB tool. My extremely light Stronglight carbon crankset was about $400 plus another $50 or so for the BB. Given my experience with other cranksets, I imagine I'll get at least 10,000 miles on the chainrings at which point I can replace the ones that need it (probably just the middle one for <$50) and keep riding it for another 10,000 miles. During that 10,000 mile period, I might use two chains.

If you don't approve of something that's fine; there's no need to go around making up stories about those things though.

Only if you want to dump money into it for replacing worn out parts.Its not uncommon for a bb and crankset costs $1500.00,which wear out in about 7 chains(7000 miles).


Point is that it is economically feasible to keep a bicycle going almost indefinitely. Cars usually get junked when repairs are too expensive. My Mazda truck was junked when the main computer failed. Computer was not in production- truck is trash.

My last BB I bought was around $30.00. Last crankset was about $50.00 Not Phil Woods parts, for sure, but both are still going strong after years of hard use.

I BOUGHT a $4100 bike.

A Lightfoot Roadrunner Magnum delta trike.

Why? I'm a double clyde, needed the strength.

Am I satisfied? Do I think it was worth it?

ABSOLUTELY!

Will I buy another bike that costs so much?

Well, this one is to let me exercise down to where I can use a more 'normal' bike; so I'm glad to say I probably won't NEED to buy another.

THANK GOD, because that was a lot of money and even tho I love my bike, parting with a chunk like that hurts!

RD

Good for you man. I hope I see you out on the roads or the trails sometime.

:thumb:

Even expensive, exotic bikes don't cost as much as you lose in depreciation in the first half-hour of owning a new mid-priced car. And, unlike cars, there is no routine cost for fuel or insurance.

As hobbies go, bikes are relatively cheap. No greens fees or country club memberships and the venue is already provided by your tax dollars and DOT so you might as well use it.

if you have the extra money and ur willing to spend it on something you love, why not?

You can,but my bikes get torn up after about 3000 miles,if not stolen from under me.

I would never, even if I could spend, that kind of money where I live,if it didnt get stolen from a bikejacking the streets would destroy it.A bicycle is human power(aka fred flintstone transportation) a stronger leg and gear ratio compensates for a heavier bike.

You can,but my bikes get torn up after about 3000 miles,if not stolen from under me.

I would never, even if I could spend, that kind of money where I live,if it didnt get stolen from a bikejacking the streets would destroy it.A bicycle is human power(aka fred flintstone transportation) a stronger leg and gear ratio compensates for a heavier bike.

Well the most expensive bike that I've put together was the xtracycle that I built that cost me less that $250 total, but heck if someone wants to spend a lot on their bike I'm not going to stop them.

If you ask that question, you obviously aren't a frequent visitor to this site.

Why buy D/A, Record, or Red? Why buy Zipps instead of Open Pro rims on Sora hubs? Why buy a high end saddle when a $30 is available. The sam applies to bars, stems, seatposts, etc.

There's a range of quality, performance, and prestige. You may not agree with paying more for the difference, but others do.

The same things apply to cars, camera's, computers, even coffee. Everyone has a certain amount of money to spend and their own priorities. Spending decisions are personal.

The same things apply to cars, camera's, computers, even coffee.

You forgot beer, wine, and cheese


Point is that it is economically feasible to keep a bicycle going almost indefinitely. Cars usually get junked when repairs are too expensive. My Mazda truck was junked when the main computer failed. Computer was not in production- truck is trash.

You probably could have found a good used unit. A better example might be the old 3 cylinder (69hp) Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift. A lot of them came with a 3-speed automatic that is prone to failure. There are no longer any parts left to repair this transmission. Oddly enough, this car is now rather sought after if it has the 5-speed because it gets Toyota Prius mileage at a fraction of the cost.

.

[QUOTE=Tabor;

You probably could have found a good used unit. A better example might be the old 3 cylinder (69hp) Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift. A lot of them came with a 3-speed automatic that is prone to failure. There are no longer any parts left to repair this transmission. Oddly enough, this car is now rather sought after if it has the 5-speed because it gets Toyota Prius mileage at a fraction of the cost.

.[/QUOTE]


Maybe off-topic but I did find junkyard computers. $400.00 No warranty. For a truck that had 250,000+ miles. Not worth it. I rented a Geo Metro. It GOT 47-50 mpg in the real world. Good little commuter-tooter.

A bottom bracket & crankset has a huge range of applications, unlike cars where a major component is model & year specific. After just a few years, parts go out of production. That can end a car's life just as sure as an accident. I saw a craiglist ad for a 1910 bicycle updated with modern parts. Say what you like, but after 98 years the bike was still being ridden.

I'd like to ride a high end bike. Just to know the difference even if I never buy one.

How many of us have $4000 AltBikes?

East Hill

I probably have about $4000 in bikes, parts and tools. Divide that between 18 or so bikes, and the tools, and knowing that about 2K was spent on 2 of my first bikes (one of which is my wife's), and you get the picture on the rest. I don't get the $4000 thing either. Most of those are probably Carbon fiber, and durability is NOT a factor in those.

I'd probaly pay 4K for a Vanilla or something comparable, which will be very durable but probably not MORE durable than another quality steel bike. But i don't have the expendible cash, so I won't.

My wife would proabably let me buy a Vanilla, if I sold all my other bikes. Yeah right.

"the rider is the engine so the real bragging rights come from how you ride and not what you're riding"

That reminds me, I need to find me a $4,000 bike so I can brag about something....

Completely agree about the practical items, technology seeks to improve performance and while most riders don't need a $4,000 bike some may just appreciate the performance factor of the higher end drive trains and other components..
;)

Oh no. The n-word. No, I mean the four-letter one.

Do most of us on this board "need" our bikes?

I think the people who need their bikes don't read this message board, or care to. They're too busy riding their bikes on the sidewalk to get from one minimum wage job to the next.

Even expensive, exotic bikes don't cost as much as you lose in depreciation in the first half-hour of owning a new mid-priced car. A

Have you ever try hauling 20 bags of groceries on a bike?


unlike cars, there is no routine cost for fuel or insurance.

Maybe no insurance but you just have to eat.


They're too busy riding their bikes on the sidewalk to get from one minimum wage job to the next.

Its either that or a life of crime.Sorry I haver never seen pennies from heaven.

Have you ever try hauling 20 bags of groceries on a bike?
Apparently you missed the point completely. I didn't say a car wasn't useful or even necessary. I was just using the cost of a car, which people accept, with the cost of even an extravagant bike.

And, there are people who shop entirely by bike. They just make more trips with, say 4 bags at a time, not 20.

BTW, there are lots of people for whom $500 for a bike is beyond their comprehension.


Maybe no insurance but you just have to eat.
You have to eat anyway, whether you ride or not. Riding just helps keep what you eat from turning entirely to flab.

I'm not an extravagant person, and I'm fairly minimalist in most things I do, but I'm sorry, the people who don't know why someone would buy a custom-made, expensive frame probably have never ridden one... because there certainly are differences in handling and feel. But it's like anything else, you have to have a certain appreciation for the subtleties. If the bike is just a vehicle that rolls, then you can be fine with even the cheapest models. But we do only live once, and it's short. I'm sure I will never own any of the finer things I've lusted over in my time, but the fine racing bicycle is one of the few interests in life that allow us to own something very fine for relatively little money when you consider the other things people spend money on.

I'm sure I will never own any of the finer things I've lusted over in my time, but the fine racing bicycle is one of the few interests in life that allow us to own something very fine for relatively little money when you consider the other things people spend money on.

That is the beauty of cycling as a hobby. The average-Joe can ride a pro level bike if he wants to for the cost of starter equipment in some hobbies. When I was into cars, I bought $4000 engine upgrades (that didn't include an engine either). On top of that, that same pro level bike can be daily transportation if he wanted it to with no concerns about fuel mileage.

I did want to make one more point about the "need" of buying a better bike than the cheapest bike one could find (which the OP here seems to be implying is all that one "needs"). For longer rides (and some people have commutes that I consider a long ride) using better equipment can be the difference between that ride being something that one can do every day versus once or twice a week or even once a week versus not at all. A 10-15 lb. difference in bike weight makes a huge difference in how effortless it feels to pedal, especially uphill and especially at mile 40 (or 50 or 100 or 200).

What does a $4000.00 bike have over maybe a $1000.00 bike,I just dont get it,but if the difference is weight than just pedal harder and buikd your muscles.Its not like making you car lighter and more aerodynamic to get better gas mileage.Just eat a few more hot dogs.

apparently you'll never know.

^^^^
I concur.


What does a $4000.00 bike have over maybe a $1000.00 bike,I just dont get it,but if the difference is weight than just pedal harder and buikd your muscles.Its not like making you car lighter and more aerodynamic to get better gas mileage.Just eat a few more hot dogs.

With this logic we could say that there is no material difference between a $1000 bike and a $250 bike. Just pedal harder!

How many of us have $4000 AltBikes?

East Hill

Talking velomobiles @ retail; usually $7000. or more. Add a $1000. motor for all the groceries/hills/trailers they are usually unaffordable. So sad. Can't afford a decent gas hog; so why not?:roflmao2:

Chris

Thanks Goalie!

Maybe I will see you.

I've wondered as I encountered cyclists if the had ever been to BFN and with me and my bike being somewhat distinctive (http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn208/rollerdavem/River%20Ride/) it is only a matter of time before someone says "Rollerdave?"

If that happens, I'll laugh my ass off.

(not that I need so much ass)

RD

This TidalForce electric-$2300, Trailer-$200, 8 sets of tires and tubes-$300, 2nd battery and chargers-$500, Total $3300

Avatar picture- proto delta trike, $3000.

Old Pacific Vector, free bike, new tubes and tires-$60

I'm starting to feel real stupid.

apparently you'll never know.

I dont think I have to know anyway,just buy a heavier bike and get your legs stronger.


And, there are people who shop entirely by bike. They just make more trips with, say 4 bags at a time, not 20.

And there are people who live 50 miles from their local food store.


With this logic we could say that there is no material difference between a $1000 bike and a $250 bike. Just pedal harder!

Yes,steel is steel,aluminum is aluminum,eventually your leg muscles will grow.mine did on them 50 miles weekend trips.

Years ago, living at home on messenger pay I saved enough for a '04 Roubaix - $3K plus pedals, lock, tax etc. Sweet ride. Ksyriums, carbon frame, fork, seatpost, crank, ultegra all around - definitely worth the money...haven't had to replace anything but the tubes, pads and chain once, and the thing's been riding like a dream through thousands of klicks. Beyond the frills - vibration dampening (whether or not you believe the "zerts" work, it's a hell of a lot more comfy than my aluminum/carbon trek), gel-padded bar tape and whatnot, it simply works unbelievably well. Serious maintenance is something that need not happen more than yearly (and you can get away with less), the parts last for ages (and if you want to upgrade, have genuine resale value), and performance is top-notch. Yes, replacement parts are expensive, but I'd rather buy one new set of ultegra shifters every decade than a new set of Soras or Tiagras every couple of years. In terms of quality new parts (what you'll get on anything above a Wal Mart bike), you're looking at $700 or more for a new bike, AT LEAST, and under $1000 I'd be looking pretty hard to see where they're cutting corners, because they probably are somewhere - no name break calipers, BB or whatever, or simply cheap versions. Now, most occasional riders and light commuters don't need anything more than this, but if you're a heavy rider, you're gonna be looking at a good number of replacements during the life of the frame - messenger work EATS Sora and Tiagra for breakfast, I've seen it many times.

This is not to say you can't do it for a lot cheaper tho. If you know people selling off slightly used parts, buy off Ebay, have access to a catalog or go to bike shows you can put together a truly impressive machine for a grand or two, though you might have to wait a while for deals. Find an old frame, crank or whatever, and you can upgrade the parts which matter the most (drivetrain and wheelset) while saving tons. Generally speaking, the sticker price you see at your LBS is the MOST you should ever pay for a given setup, and it can almost always be done cheaper and in a more interesting fashion (who wants STOCK, anyways?), if you've got the connections and skill.

The other part of this discussion is what you're using the bike for. A nice road bike or FS MTB is easily worth $4K if you're a dedicated rider. The same amount for a commuter bike isn't (my Rockhopper is set up as a commuter). That's what your old beater is for, the worse it looks the less likely it'll be stolen. Mark in post 36 should look at an xtracycle and/or a trailer for carrying that much. It's doable.
As far as the no store within 50miles comment goes. It was your choice to live that far out. Personally I prefer to live closer to stores and public transit (originally so I had an option if the car broke down, and now it's convienent as I bike most places).

Have you ever try hauling 20 bags of groceries on a bike?

20 bags? Nope. 30 bags? Yep. Been there done that. I used my bike trailer to carry the groceries. (20 bags had two two liters of Mtn. Dew. I gotta have my Dew! :D)

20 bags? Nope. 30 bags? Yep. Been there done that. I used my bike trailer to carry the groceries. (20 bags had two two liters of Mtn. Dew. I gotta have my Dew! :D)


I believe it was Jeff Foxworthy who coined the phrase "Mountain Dew: Nectar of Morons"

And to think I'm saving for a frame that will cost more than $4000 (Serotta Custom Ti).

This is one of those questions that has as many answers as folks that are willing to consider it. The answer is different for each person. I'm nearly 40, overweight by about 30 pounds, and getting in shape. I ride a $4000 road bike now and a $2500 MTB. I bought them cause I like them. There really doesn't need to be any other answer.