Google sponsored links
Global oil production is expected to peak and begin a permenant decline within the next 6 years. Massive disruption to the oil dependent world economy expected.
Discovery of new reserves peaked 40 years ago. We now consume 4 bls to 1 discovered.
KEEP RIDING BOYS AND GIRLS.
http://www.oilcrash.com/eating.htm
http://hubbertpeak.com/
http://www.dieoff.com/
http://ogj.pennnet.com/articles/EdPro_Article_Display.cfm?&Section=Articles&SubSection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=152444&PUBLICATION_ID=7&VERSION_NUM=1
http://healthandenergy.com/oil_crisis.htm
http://www.oilcrisis.com/magoon/
http://quasar.physik.unibas.ch/~fisker/401/oil/oil.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/04_04_02_oil_recession.html
http://planetforlife.com/index.html
http://www.peakoil.net/Default.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0525-04.htm
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content
here.
Ready to buy? Check out these two online bike stores:
-
http://www.nashbar.com (you can find the latest bike nashbar coupons in
this thread)
-
http://www.performancebike.com (you can find the latest performance bike coupons in
this thread)
Cya on the forums,
- The BikeForums Team
-
http://www.bikeforums.net
With China now using oil at rates that far exceed any prior predictions, the day of recogning will be here much quicker than expected.
We had 30 years lead time to convert to renewable energy.Blew the chance.. Plenty of warning.. The petroleum giants were determined to gouge us to the last drop.
Well, the conversion will be exciting.. If only more military conflicts don't divert our attention to the real scientific challenges... Usually major powers would rather fight for a resource rather than use technology..
Have read about this news at other web sites over the years. Not really news to me.....
Question, will this be good for cycling.. Will our cycling lanes look like Peking in the morning and will Shanghai reverse its anti cycling ban...
if no more petrolium, no more fuel to fuel the factories that make bicycles......
Petroleum could be saved by use of sources such as thermal, solar, wind, biomass, ethanol,coal,shale, etc. About the only means of transport that can't be switched are those that use aviation fuel.. I used to read these reports on a web site called "Brainfood," I think it was.
Studies by the British government reported that production areas such as Mexico, Britain, Norway, Venezuela, Alaska,Nigeria will be gone by 2008. Even Saudi Arabia's proudction will start its decline before 2020. Iraq and Saudi Arabia held like over half of the world's petroleum reserves.
New finds were being made in places like Ecuador and VietNam, but nothing big enough to off set the losses...
Less than a decade. Need work pretty fast to divert economic disaster. We have squandered over a 30 lead time. We knew all this in the 70's when Jimmy Carter called the petroleum shortage a 'national security problem.'
Petroleum could be saved by use of sources such as thermal, solar, wind, biomass, ethanol,coal,shale, etc. About the only means of transport that can't be switched are those that use aviation fuel.. I used to read these reports on a web site called "Brainfood," I think it was.
Studies by the British government reported that production areas such as Mexico, Britain, Norway, Venezuela, Alaska,Nigeria will be gone by 2008. Even Saudi Arabia's proudction will start its decline before 2020. Iraq and Saudi Arabia held like over half of the world's petroleum reserves.
New finds were being made in places like Ecuador and VietNam, but nothing big enough to off set the losses...
Less than a decade. Need work pretty fast to divert economic disaster. We have squandered over a 30 lead time. We knew all this in the 70's when Jimmy Carter called the petroleum shortage a 'national security problem.'
The petroleum giants have squeezed us until it hurts and their best fun is yet to come..Some predict gas as high as $7 a gallon.Not for a couple more years..
And you all think the Iraq war is bad-you ain't seen nothing yet. In fact the US has been studying for years major war plans that would have outcomes that would make WW1 and WW2 combined look like childs play. And it's all based on threats to the oil supply. US believes (as well as some European countries especially England) that there needs to be a major reduction in world population. There are only 3 ways to do this: 1) disease; 2) hungar and 3) war. Why does the US have enough food grown here too feed the entire world yet we (as well as other nations) let billions of tons of food go bad every year while Africa (just to name 1) starves and millions are dying? Aids came from virus known as the Green Monkey Virus, a particular monkey that some tribes in Africa have eaten for thousands of years, yet no one seems to wonder why aids was not around for thousands of years. This is a virus that supposely occurs naturally in that monkey! Do you all really think aids is a byproduct of nature? So what do you think is going to happen when the western world discovers they are being starved for fuel and two of the largest eastern countries is also being starved for fuel?
Anyway I could go on but by now you all think I'm wacked, which I probably am.
... US believes (as well as some European countries especially England) that there needs to be a major reduction in world population. There are only 3 ways to do this: 1) disease; 2) hunger and 3) war. ... Anyway I could go on but by now you all think I'm wacked, which I probably am.
or 4) humanely, sanely, ethically, and sensibly by providing incentives to reduce the birthrate, including political empowerment and education of women, reduction in infant mortality, democracy, and economic development. Most of western Europe has already achieved negative population growth; without immigration, the U.S. would be there, as well. If the Bush administration were truly concerned about global overpopulation, it would support family planning.
Global oil production is expected to peak and begin a permenant decline within the next 6 years. Massive disruption to the oil dependent world economy expected. Discovery of new reserves peaked 40 years ago. We now consume 4 bls to 1 discovered. KEEP RIDING BOYS AND GIRLS.
This is a problem only for short-term, noncreative, paradigm-frozen individuals, governments, and societies. (Unfortunately, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney come to mind. This observation is coming from a registered Republican, by the way.) For the rest of us, it is a tremendous scientific, academic, social, and economic opportunity. I have long advocated a multifaceted energy policy comprising aggressive conservation, renewables, nuclear fusion, and coal conversion. To ride the paradigm shift, consider investing in companies such as Rentek (RTK), enhance your home's insulation, line-dry your towels and other heavy clothing items, select the smallest engine available when purchasing or leasing a motor vehicle, and, of course, keep cycling (and recycling).
I do believe we have less than 10 years at the most to convert to renewable energy.. This did not have to be a calamity for the world. I fear that is the case. Both economically and in terms of peace..
With China demanding oil we need rapid change. Doubt we are up to it..Like if mass transit became a huge priority and hybrids could quickly become the norm it might be an easier conversiion to the new economy..
Unfortunately, the US is still stuck on selling vans and SUV's when we are facing a potential economic calamity.
If only transit could get me half way to work, I might ride most every day..26 miles.. Sort of rough..As I have said in the past..Getting people to work is a national priority and private cars just are not efficient...Both in terms of space, time, and fuel...
With China now using oil at rates that far exceed any prior predictions, the day of recogning will be here much quicker than expected.
This, my friends, was the part of the equation that was not put into the formula when calculating petrolium supply/demand during the past several administrations.
I don't think anyone could have predicted China's rapid rise from the ashes of communism and their consequencial demand for oil. Add to this the smaller scale demand growth by other developing countries and suddenly, conservation by the developed world is no longer a viable solution to the oil supply problem.
This, my friends, was the part of the equation that was not put into the formula when calculating petrolium supply/demand during the past several administrations.
I don't think anyone could have predicted China's rapid rise from the ashes of communism and their consequencial demand for oil. Add to this the smaller scale demand growth by other developing countries and suddenly, conservation by the developed world is no longer a viable solution to the oil supply problem.
Mike...The civilized way to get the resources we need is to buy it on the global market, with the resources at the whole world disposal.Money.. Military conquering a nation to steal someone's else resources only works for awhile.
We are the one's exporting our jobs to China and buying their newly found cheap crap. They have every right to demand petroleum, to fuel their exports and make foreign currency reserves, which is the only way to have a vibrant economy- A message which does not resignate with us.
Without foreign currency reserves a monetary unit will eventually crash. The cause of our trade deficits a big one is oil and the other buying from overseas what we used to make here.
You live in the midwest. Any where near Flint.? Buenos Aires looks more prosperous..
The only way the American public is going to buy into conservation is MONEY. It's got to cost them a lot to make them think. The government should jack the price of gas up to about $2.50 a gallon. The money earned from this should go toward creating an economy not so oil dependant.
Also the national speed limit should be reduced. That saves a bunch of things, lives, oil, money.
Mike...The civilized way to get the resources we need is to buy it on the global market, with the resources at the whole world disposal.Money.. Military conquering a nation to steal someone's else resources only works for awhile.
We are the one's exporting our jobs to China and buying their newly found cheap crap. They have every right to demand petroleum, to fuel their exports and make foreign currency reserves, which is the only way to have a vibrant economy- A message which does not resignate with us.
Without foreign currency reserves a monetary unit will eventually crash. The cause of our trade deficits a big one is oil and the other buying from overseas what we used to make here.
You live in the midwest. Any where near Flint.? Buenos Aires looks more prosperous..
I agree with all your well-made points, cyclesalot.
The only way the American public is going to buy into conservation is MONEY. It's got to cost them a lot to make them think. The government should jack the price of gas up to about $2.50 a gallon. The money earned from this should go toward creating an economy not so oil dependant.
Why should "the government" have all the fun jacking up gas prices? Why not leave it up to private industry? In fact, just allow the government to take away the subsidies and pull the military out of the petro-protection business, and let the prices fly where they may. The sad reality of this fantasy is that if this happened, we would all be riding bicycles with nowhere to go for the next 25 years.
Oh by the way, megaman, $2.50/gallon won't have much impact on driving habits. Look at Japan where gas is $4.50 per gallon. They have a superb public transportation system and guess what - their roads are still bumper to bumper traffic.
>>>>If only transit could get me half way to work, I might ride most every day..26 miles.. <<<<<
Transit does work but there are only a handful of cities like Manhattan that created the infrastructure. We have hundreds of miles of railroads and subways so there is really no reason to own a car if you live in the New York Metropolitan area. I live in this area and became car free without any problems. Yet, people still buy cars and the roads are bumper to bumper come rush hour every day.
>>>>Oh by the way, megaman, $2.50/gallon won't have much impact on driving habits. Look at Japan where gas is $4.50 per gallon. <<<<<
If you raise the price of gas, we will have massive inflation as everything will be effected. I agree with Mike that raising the price will NOT change habits. Furthermore, you will never get local governments to agree with raising gas taxes. We just voted down a gas tax in NJ to help pay for public transportation.
Mike, you must live in the high rent district, cause around here at $2.50 a gallon people aren't going anywhere unless they really have to. The extra funds generated could help alternative transportation get off the ground. The people in the SUVs would most likely sell them and their sales would sharply decline. I don't have one, but if I did I would be looking for something much more economical. Maybe $4.50 doesn't stop them in Japan. But that ain't here. I'm not a big fan of government intervention, however, letting prices go where they may is probably political suicide. And how does that solve anything cause as soon as the price goes sky high the sales of petroleum products will fall so the companies can stay in business. The lower the prices the more is consumed. It would be a yo-yo with no good long term solution.
The jobs issue is a different beast. The american public demands, by their buying habits, that jobs do go overseas. With the gap growing between rich and poor in this country the lower income people are constantly searching for a better price. Yet numerous times when they buy that cheaper item that's another job sent overseas. They can't find better paying jobs so they search for cheaper products, and on and on.
at $2.50 a gallon people aren't going anywhere unless they really have to. The people in the SUVs would most likely sell them and their sales would sharply decline. (portions have been deleted)
My wife and I sold our Suburbans when the gas got up to $1.50/gal! We were paying $0.89/gal when we purchased them. 40gallons x $1.50/gal= $60.00 to fill each of them up!
I ride most places now. Still have a vehicle, I have to travel for work. It gets almost 30mph. My 3/4ton Suburban only got around 11mpg on a good day.
Speaking of traveling for work, what alternatives would there be for those of us who have to travel using our own vehicles for work? In my case the company pays a flat rate per mile. (IRS max) My area covers over 55,000sq miles. Just wondering what ya'll think alternatives for us types would be.
Ok, I may be off point a bit... :D
<snip> Furthermore, you will never get local governments to agree with raising gas taxes. We just voted down a gas tax in NJ to help pay for public transportation.
In Montana we pay $0.46/gal of gasoline. I believe that is one of the highest in the nation.
Even with the higher tax on fuel we still have more SUV & pickup trucks that you can shake a stick at. And with all this consuption and taxes being paid into the state money mill, our state is still can't figure out how to fund public schools.
CZ in Mt... Just because I find California driving miserable and have some anti-car arguments, I am not for banning the dam things.. I fear what the energy future might hold for the auto industry and our economy.. My inpatience is just I feel we need to treat this economic revolution with the planning that it requires.
I believe there are vital uses for the auto, it is just that we need prepare for when gasoline could possibly be rationed.
Thirty years ago it was a national emergency. It still is.With enough preparation the economic dislocations could be lessened, is my hope.
I read about this crisis about two years ago on the website called "Brainfood." Each year we waste more preparation time. Some scientist say hydrogen and ethanol can be quickly harnassed for our energy needs. I hope so.
Of course, I hope cycling can be a part of the mix to lessen petroleum dependency..Be better for our congestion problems and better for our cardiovasular needs.
Mike, you must live in the high rent district, cause around here at $2.50 a gallon people aren't going anywhere unless they really have to. .
I dunno, megaman. I hear ya, but think about it. In the USA, the only alternative transportation for most people is either bicycle or walking. That isn't an option for a lot of people. Today's populations live many miles from work and commerce - too far for most people to give up the automobile. How would Mama san do grocery shopping and bring her kids to all the crazy lessons and schooling and functions? I tell you, if gas went to $3.00 or $4.00, Mama would still be driving. Papa might be eating oatmeal for dinner and wearing shoes with holes in them, but Mama will still be driving with very little change in habits.
Public transportation is great, but you need population density to make it work. We don't have much population density in the USA because of urban sprawl. Sure some cities have some density, but imagine the nightmare of trying to figure out effective bus routes for most of America.
I am willing to bet that if gas prices doubled or tripled, people would still drive their cars and give up other expenses to do so. They MIGHT change their lifestyles a little, but the automobile will still reign supreme in the USA. There simply is no alternative.
Here in Los Angeles and San Diego like 40,000 commuters pack the coastal train routes into either LA or San Diego each day. I understand your point.But I fear American culture will come into contact with reality with long lines at gas stations. Don't have a product in volume needed you have to line up..
That was one of the most violent aspects of American culture in the last 30 years...Fights insued. People fumed.You might wait for your gas but you might be late.
this could be averted with hydrogen, shale, ethanol.
I dunno, megaman. I hear ya, but think about it. In the USA, the only alternative transportation for most people is either bicycle or walking. That isn't an option for a lot of people. Today's populations live many miles from work and commerce - too far for most people to give up the automobile. How would Mama san do grocery shopping and bring her kids to all the crazy lessons and schooling and functions? I tell you, if gas went to $3.00 or $4.00, Mama would still be driving. Papa might be eating oatmeal for dinner and wearing shoes with holes in them, but Mama will still be driving with very little change in habits.
Public transportation is great, but you need population density to make it work. We don't have much population density in the USA because of urban sprawl. Sure some cities have some density, but imagine the nightmare of trying to figure out effective bus routes for most of America.
I am willing to bet that if gas prices doubled or tripled, people would still drive their cars and give up other expenses to do so. They MIGHT change their lifestyles a little, but the automobile will still reign supreme in the USA. There simply is no alternative.
Very good point. Just as in the 70's people will start by buying efficient cars and scrap the SUV and other gas guzzlers. One Ford Explorer uses twice as much gas as a Civic wagon. At double the gas prices folks can still get around on the same money. Even today I see more and more SUVs sitting on the used car lots. That may just be the progression of used vehicles, but it seems auto manufactures are dropping prices like crazy on the SUVs.
Speaking of traveling for work, what alternatives would there be for those of us who have to travel using our own vehicles for work? In my case the company pays a flat rate per mile. (IRS max) My area covers over 55,000sq miles. Just wondering what ya'll think alternatives for us types would be.
Ok, I may be off point a bit... :D
I too have to drive for work on occasion. I do field work on drilling rigs (water wells), and carry around equipment, and drive offroad frequently. While I can't see any alternative to my truck, I did get a 4cyl toyota tacoma that I can get 23 mpg regularly on. Not bad for a 4wd truck. Anyway, I ride my bike to the office when I am in town, which is most of the time anyway.
I think you went the right route getting a car with good gas mileage for work. I can't see any alternatives though. Sometimes cars are necessary.
More efficient transportation, or new energy sources wont fix this. People need to live within 1 mile of where they work, go to school and shop.
More efficient transportation, or new energy sources wont fix this. People need to live within 1 mile of where they work, go to school and shop.
And this will work? Actually, if we had "new energy" we would not need oil.
Personally, I've heard this type of prediction for decades. Killer bees, earthquakes, ozone, seas rising (a total impossibility, IIRC), martians, global warming, and none of it has panned out the way it was described. Yes, we will run out of oil someday, but I bet I will be dead.
So you young folks now have the same chance to make the same proposed changes as your folks did back in the 60's and 70's. Lets not hope greed gets in your way like it did theirs.
Actually, the more I look at todays problems the more I feel the baby-boomers let us down. Seemed like a lot of the talk of the previous generation was just that, talk :mad:
I am willing to bet that if gas prices doubled or tripled, people would still drive their cars and give up other expenses to do so. They MIGHT change their lifestyles a little, but the automobile will still reign supreme in the USA. There simply is no alternative.
Ahem! We`ve been here before. The U.K.pays about U S. equivellent of 6 dollars a gallon! Does that put people off motoring? Does it heck!. Still the British love afair with their cars goes on.
Surveys suggest that if prices were doubled,even tripled, they would not give up their motors.
They would mortgage their Grannies rather than loose their vehicles. Poor benighted fools....
...this could be averted with hydrogen...
Just a quick point about the much touted hyrdrogen. Despite what most people believe hydrogen is NOT an energy source, only a way of storing energy with a small energy loss. To 'make' hydrogen from water you need lots of energy, with reduced fossil fuels for energy the only practical means to do this is nuclear. Whether the general public will support a nuclear economy remains to be seen.
Also there is some debate about whether the year 2000 was the peak year of oil production. High oil prices in 2001 sank the global economy into recession reducing demand and production. If 2003 fails to meet or beat the 2000 total, then I believe that 2000 was the peak year. If this is true, expect higher oil prices coming right up (currently at a high 33usd a barrel) followed by another recession.
The time to act is now, more wars for oil are not the answer (as a Canadian I fear for our future as we have the worlds 2nd largest reserves). Replacement with renewables, efficiency and curtailment must begin now. Are there any politicians out there who are listening!?!?!?!
Side note: the Brits are starting to 'get it', the gov't has issued a graph stating that the UK will be an importer of oil in the next couple of years with domestic production sliding to just about 0 by 2020. Compare this to the USGS who still say that oil is basically limitless and there is no reason at all to worry about oil supplies.
>>>More efficient transportation, or new energy sources wont fix this. People need to live within 1 mile of where they work, go to school and shop.<<<
This is unrealistic. I understand that people need cars as they live in the middle of nowhere. I also understand that this is a CHOICE and no one is forcing you to live there. Since this is a matter you choose upon yourself, then you must face the consequences of being dependant on the automobile. If you want to free yourself, all you have to do is move! If you can't move, your stuck.
I'm part of the car-free crowd that won't go back to spending 30 percent of my paycheck for a machine that spends 95 percent of it's lifetime parked. I'm tired of buying gas, paying tickets, repairs and tolls. We all have to make decisions on what you want to do with your money.
>>>>>Just a quick point about the much touted hyrdrogen. Despite what most people believe hydrogen is NOT an energy source, only a way of storing energy with a small energy loss. <<<<<
Jackpot! You stole my thunder. The auto manufacturers do not want to spend the billions needed for hydrogen cars until the last drop of oil is sucked from the face of the earth. There are only a handful of cars that use hydrogen and they're not selling because of the high cost.
Check out 'The Party's Over' for a good read about peak oil. It contains the following quote regarding automobiles (off the top of my head): in an oil starved future can we expect people to travel by automobiles that are partially made from oil, are powered by oil, roll on tires made of oil on roads made of oil? A wealthy minority may be able to retain their automobile use on ever deteriorating roads. The author recomends a 'good sturdy bike' for the rest of us.
Screw transportation though, there is so much oil waste that there's a huge margin for improvement. There's no reason at all that we can't have car's that get 100mpg with current tech, we will just have to sacrifice some comfort is all. Where the peak oil story gets scarry is in regards to food production, I can't eat my car, but I need oil and gas to get the food I eat from the fields to my mouth.
Also I regard natural gas depletion as a far more serious issue as a Canadian. The thought of freezing in -30c weather with no natural gas heat is not a thought I relish. Natural gas producers are running around like chickens with their heads cut off just to keep production flat, amidst ever increasing demand. In fact 2003 is a record year in terms of low pressure from new wells in the Western Canadian Sedimentary Basin. I doubt that we will be able to support tar sand extraction with natural gas much longer, which could make the oil problem much much worse (unless we get going on nuclear steam to produce tar sands). If any of you live in States/Provinces where there is new investment in gas fired electrical generation, call your gov't now and tell them to get their heads out of their asses and plan for a future without abundant fossil fuels (other than coal). I have to do more research on Coal Bed Methane to see if it is a possible temporary way out of our natural gas crisis.
PS - I often think now would be the time to start a bike company whose only purpose is to make transportation bikes, this is a market with huge growth potential me thinks!
If any of you live in States/Provinces where there is new investment in gas fired electrical generation, call your gov't now and tell them to get their heads out of their asses and plan for a future without abundant fossil fuels (other than coal). I have to do more research on Coal Bed Methane to see if it is a possible temporary way out of our natural gas crisis.
The sad part about this story is that the US federal government is seeking to privatize areas of national parkland (like Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park) and exploit the natural gas there. Even if it's not done soon, it might be done later as we get more desperate for energy, whether it's due to decreasing supplies or increasing demands.
I think it will be impossible to protect ANY area if it contains large amounts of oil or gas. Public support for nature refuges will disapear as the grip of depleation tightens. This is another reason why we need renewables NOW, I don't want to see oil dereks in Banff National Park!!!
1. Replacing a car that gets bad gas mileage with one that gets MPG rarely makes economic sense.
2. Our gas is too cheap...
3. At 55, 65, 0r 75 MPH my high performance sports car gets Honda/Toyota sedan gas mileage.
4. In Southern Cal. cars are not the leading creator of hydrocarbons.
My predictions....oil products will get more exepensive...we're at least 20 years from running out of oil..at least..and out government will never let a shortage compromise our position of a world power.
Alot of these arguments almost sound like when people are debating for school referendums. They assume that many things the school wants to do to expand isn't needed. Some things aren't. Therefore, the referendum isn't passed cause of some small parts. That hurts the whole educational process. Also some people refuse to believe there is a problem. Some people wouldn't pay anything even if it was to delay their own execution!
Only when the voters are convinced of the need does the referendum get passed.
It's gonna be the same way with the energy crisis coming. Many people think the crisis won't concern them, isn't going to happen in their lifetime, or just isn't really going to happen at all. Too many people are going to wait for someone to pull a magic rabbit out of the hat. Something needs to be started to be done about this very soon. It will require a life style change for almost everyone. And we all know the only one who likes change is a baby!
We will probably all have to give up somethings.
On the brighter we are living in the highest standard of living in history overall. It will still probably get better, but it may not be what we except.
PS - I often think now would be the time to start a bike company whose only purpose is to make transportation bikes, this is a market with huge growth potential me thinks!
Have a look at Breezer bicycles. http://www.breezerbikes.com
If any of you live in States/Provinces where there is new investment in gas fired electrical generation, call your gov't now and tell them to get their heads out of their asses and plan for a future without abundant fossil fuels (other than coal). I have to do more research on Coal Bed Methane to see if it is a possible temporary way out of our natural gas crisis.
PS - I often think now would be the time to start a bike company whose only purpose is to make transportation bikes, this is a market with huge growth potential me thinks!
Unless there are new environmental controls on coal burning electrical plants, we can all kiss our asses goodbye if coal is our future. Western coal contains a witches brew of toxics, from uranium to mercury, much of which goes up the stack and is redeposited downwind. For starters, 50 tons of mercury per year in the US from burning coal for electrical generation has made many fisheries off-limits for human consumption, and has dire environmental consequences all around.
No one even wants to talk about the hazards of uranium emissions from coal burning plants, but uranium emissions from coal burning plants are much greater than the level of emissions from any nuke plant; I have seen samples of western coal completely encrusted in uranium minerals -- uranium has a chemical affinity to organic materials such as coal, and in places that uranium and coal occur together, such as the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and the San Juan Basin in New Mexico, this is a serious problem, that curiously goes undiscussed in any public forum...
I'm all for transportation bikes, as opposed to bikes marketed primarily for recreational use. Although this type of bicycle is common is Europe and Asia, Breezer is the only company I know of that is solely dedicated to transportation bikes in the US.
If only transit could get me half way to work, I might ride most every day..26 miles.. Sort of rough..As I have said in the past..Getting people to work is a national priority and private cars just are not efficient...Both in terms of space, time, and fuel...
I encourage people to plan where they live and work so that they can cycle comfortably. Fuel conservation, air quality, and global warming aren't the only reasons to live close to work and bike. The cozier you are to your community, the more you'll recoginize neighbors and suspicious goings on. Local shopping, I believe, is good for the neighborhood, and by extension one's home value, too. We bikers can concider ourselves as self centered and selfish as the rest of society, guiltlessly.
As for my car driving coworkers, I ask them why they choose to live so far away, that they have to spend their precious time and money sitting in grid lock on their way to work. I urge them to hone their skills in selfishness.
They could keep their SUVs and almost double their fuel eficiency by moving 1/2 the distance to work. I don't tell them that once they take my advice, I'll egg them on to try biking!
We in California are living in a fool's paradise.Property values are so redicilious that we commute two hours to work to find something affordable.. I thought I was lucky over 10 years ago when We bought 25 miles west over a pass where it is over 20 degrees cooler in the summer.I hate the heat...
Would not be biking over there when it is over 100 degrees for 8 weeks of the year. Really do not like inland California..We all like to live on the coast. Wish mass transit/biking/alternative transportation could be a part of the solution.
Certainly if we all converted to hybrids, that would free up a lot of production..
If our government wants to lower the world population why would we oust Saddam? It would have been better to keep him in power and lift all sanctions. That way we could buy cheeper oil and he could keep killing.
I think it is funny how people predict what will happen 20 years into the future. It is impossible. With the way technology is moving, advancement in medicine, commnication, and energy are unforseeable.
I think it is funny how people predict what will happen 20 years into the future. It is impossible. With the way technology is moving, advancement in medicine, commnication, and energy are unforseeable.
It might not be so unpredictable, if you have enough data. The energy companies are probably far more concerned about maintaining their own profit-making abilities through the next century than we are about running out of oil or gas. They must have plans to protect their wealth.
I only hope those plans are good for the rest of us.
Ironically, it may be the oil companies that come up with alternative sources of energy 20 years from now as production declines and demand keeps rising. Like all businesses, they search for profit. When it becomes obvious that the oil won't last forever (if anyone knows this it is the oil companies, since they are the ones searching for it), the oil companies will try to corner the market on new technologies. I bet they commit quite a lot of resources into alternative energy research even today.
Indeed they do, in fact British Petroleum (BP) now refers to itself as Beyond Petroleum. Shell is also rushing headlong into alternative energy. Their futures are not as bright as their pasts though, as in the renewable energy market they face more competition mainly from electical generation companies.
There will always be energy available to sustain civilization, we are not facing the 'end of the world' here. I think we can live very comfortably on far less energy than we now use, in fact I would argue that our quality of life will be enhanced in a lower energy future, as bikers I think we can attest to this. Less energy = less consumption hopefully= less work = more leisure, a return to a simpler way of life where we can 'stop and smell the roses' and actually talk to one another again rather than rushing around in a mad (stupid) quest for more and more material wealth to fill our empty souls and show up our neighboors.
PS - If I seem philoshical it's because I saw The Return of the King last night and it has reinforced my feelings sacrifice for the greater good and the benefits of 'simple life'. Great movie.
I agree.. The switch could turn out to not be all bad. Actually, I hate big oil even worse than Nike Corp. But the switch could have its rough spots for certain industries that employ lots of people..
That's why I think we need to change our culture in regards to work. Rather than laying off millions of people why not reduce the work load on everyone? Rather than having people working 40+ hour weeks while 10+% have no work why not just have everyone who genuinely wants to work spend 35 hours a week. Sure it may reduce productivity, but I would argue that all high productivity does is heap more wealth on the wealthy. Surely not many in industrialized North America are working less and making more, other than those at the top.
I encourage people to plan where they live and work so that they can cycle comfortably. Fuel conservation, air quality, and global warming aren't the only reasons to live close to work and bike. The cozier you are to your community, the more you'll recoginize neighbors and suspicious goings on. Local shopping, I believe, is good for the neighborhood, and by extension one's home value, too.
As for my car driving coworkers, I ask them why they choose to live so far away, that they have to spend their precious time and money sitting in grid lock on their way to work. I urge them to hone their skills in selfishness.
Amen to all of this! Just FYI, how do your coworkers respond???
I encourage people to plan where they live and work so that they can cycle comfortably. Fuel conservation, air quality, and global warming aren't the only reasons to live close to work and bike. The cozier you are to your community, the more you'll recoginize neighbors and suspicious goings on. Local shopping, I believe, is good for the neighborhood, and by extension one's home value, too. We bikers can concider ourselves as self centered and selfish as the rest of society, guiltlessly.
As for my car driving coworkers, I ask them why they choose to live so far away, that they have to spend their precious time and money sitting in grid lock on their way to work. I urge them to hone their skills in selfishness.
They could keep their SUVs and almost double their fuel eficiency by moving 1/2 the distance to work. I don't tell them that once they take my advice, I'll egg them on to try biking!
Most people live far from work not only because of cost, but because of crime. Most of the schools near my work have organized gangs, as well as the streets around the neighborhood. One gang member shot another yesterday near my old mail route, something that people don't see happening in the "burbs". I get an amused smile on my face when I see people writing about planning where they work, when most in my area will take any job that comes along. I'm 25 miles from work, but we're closer to the wife's job. Moving to someplace near her work would be about $700 more a month. She's one of the people I could never convince to give up her car. I'm working on being able to ride most of the time, but my overall daily energy expenditure would be like riding a century every day.
Got to keep working on that.
Very good point. Just as in the 70's people will start by buying efficient cars and scrap the SUV and other gas guzzlers. One Ford Explorer uses twice as much gas as a Civic wagon. At double the gas prices folks can still get around on the same money. Even today I see more and more SUVs sitting on the used car lots. That may just be the progression of used vehicles, but it seems auto manufactures are dropping prices like crazy on the SUVs.
No question about your point that people would buy more efficient cars. Maybe for awhile, bicycling might even become fashionable again. We've been through this so recently that 'history' doesn't have to repeat itself because it isn't even history yet.
In the 1970's, gas prices did double almost overnight in the USA. My Dad had big gas sucking vehicles. Ya, he was concerned about the price of gas, but he couldn't just throw out his gas suckers and buy new gas efficient Japanese imports either. Remember that in the 1970's when the first oil shocks hit us, there were CHEAP Japanese imports. The fuel efficient Volkswagon beetles and vans were fuel efficient, still in production, and affordably priced. Still, it took years until the old American-built fuel-inefficient cars were replaced by more fuel-efficient cars. I knew families that didn't finally make the transition until the 1980's.
THEN, in the 90's, the market drifted back to the gas guzzlers. Hey, man... are we gettin' played here or something?...
Mike, it sorta weird you should mention all this with a time line. Growing up on a farm I can tell you that my father was looking into ethyl alcohol production as a way to generate income, and fight the high cost of fuel. Not only was everyone looking at smaller, more fuel effecent autos, home owners where looking into ways to harness solar power, etc., to lower home heating cost. (Did you know you can string a garden hose back and fourth over you roof and pay almost no hot water heating cost in the summer?) I think this is when the oil companies got hit in the face with the wet fish,(so to speak)! They realized that there was a breaking point where alternate energy sources become ,cost wise, on par with oil as a source of energy! Thus the sudden drop in fuel prices.They realised that people whern't going to need them any more, unless they droped prices and kept the public on the teet!
Smaller autos will become a nessity for average families as fuel prices go up. It is sorta irronic the the largest cost for a gallon of fuel is TAX, not the price of the fuel itself. We can get along quite well on much less energy than we have grown accustomed to having. How many of you have programable thermostats in your home? This addition alone has saved me hundreds of dollars a month over my neibours in winter. I never let my house get over 67 or so in winter and never cooler than about 78 in summer. With a programable thermostat my house goes to 60 when there is no one home and at night while we sleep. If I ride my bike to work just a few days a month, that is a savings for me and the world, it all adds up. I could go on and on. I don't beleave all the doom and gloom, but there will be an end to the oil driven world some day, at that time we will be forced to use other energy sources. Most people born after the 70's don't even no about all the ways to save energy, it isn't even talked about in daily life!
I went to 4-H camp this past summer as an adult leader for my county. One of the little classes they where trying to teach the children was about waste reduction. Then at lunch there where individual packets of everything!!!!! More garbage than when I was a kid at the same camp!!! People, many times we talk out of both sides of our mouth on many subjects. End my rant! Some times I just get sick of the whole thing! :mad:
Previous -
Top -
Next
Copyright 1999 - 2007
BikeForums.Net - All rights reserved.
Common bike forum topics in clue bicycles, cycling, mountain biking,
cycling jerseys, shorts, socks, shoes and bike equiptment selection.