Touring - Need advice on specing a fully custom touring bike.

Okay so I want to buy my first and last touring bike. I want this thing to be able to go around the world or to the local islands for the weekend but with emphasis on the former.

I've decided to get a custom steel frame with 26" wheels (probably 38-40 spoke), MTB sized tires, disc brakes...

my main question is what kind of drivetrain should I get? I am leaning towards a 7 speed cogset for strength and, of course, a triple crankset but what about shifters/ brakes etc? I want bullhorn handlebars (like on a roadbike) durability and serviceability are key and I am opposed to Rohloff so don't suggest it :).

Also are Ortlieb panniers as good as I've been led to believe?

How does one determine an appropriate chainstay length when considering long feet (size 46 Euro) and panniers with custom 220mm crank arms (yes 220mm).

Any other advice for a bomber 2-wheeler?

It's worthy of mention I am 6'8" 171lbs (going to try to gain at least 25 though) and want to beable to ride fully self-supported without a trailer.

Muito obrigada pela sua ajuda :)

I dont know much about components, but Ortlieb bags are definitely worth the money, go buy some today.

You need to direct your custom bike frame questions to the rare builder experienced in making extra large touring bikes.

I directed two friends- one 6'7" to Bruce Gordon and the other one 6'9'' to Santana Cycles for their frames. They have been very happy with the results. Since these were late '90's bikes you would need to contact each builder for their current offerings. Serrota also comes to mind as a large frame builder.

Bruce Gordon offers a 26" wheel RockNRoad EX that could suit your needs including his CrMo racks that I have happily used for 20 years on and off road on my RNR.

Your desire for 220mm cranks will pose problems with bottom bracket height and stability due to a raised center of gravity to prevent pedal strike. I use 181mm for my size 49 shoes. How did you choose the 220's?

For wheels look to Peter White Cycles for quality components and build.

You might want to contact Sam Whittingham of Naked bicycles on Quadra Island (http://www.timetogetnaked.com/) He built me a touring bike a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the end product.After a two hour plus talk /discussion and custom fitting I had him build it with tandem tubing,disc brakes,bosses for cantilever brakes,four bottle spots,9 speed casette,3 chain rings,and heavy duty wheels and spokes. Sounds like what you are looking for in your bike. It's not that far for you to pop over and do the same.Also some guy by the name of Lance who supposidly knows something about bikes liked one of his bikes so much he bought it.

You might want to contact Sam Whittingham of Naked bicycles on Quadra Island (http://www.timetogetnaked.com/) He built me a touring bike a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the end product.After a two hour plus talk /discussion and custom fitting I had him build it with tandem tubing,disc brakes,bosses for cantilever brakes,four bottle spots,9 speed casette,3 chain rings,and heavy duty wheels and spokes. Sounds like what you are looking for in your bike. It's not that far for you to pop over and do the same.Also some guy by the name of Lance who supposidly knows something about bikes liked one of his bikes so much he bought it.

this lance guy sounds like a liar and a cheat.

There were some good suggestions in this thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=417828&highlight=

My personal advice has not changed since I answered your earlier question on this topic. Since you're in Vancouver, come down to Seattle and see the folks at www.rodcycle.com. They make 26" touring bikes all the time.

Has someone solved the racks + disc brake problem?

Has someone solved the racks + disc brake problem?

Your mileage may vary but look at these - had them on my previous bike with avid disc brakes: Axiom Journey Disc in the back and Old Man Mountain AC Low rider in front. Tight fit, but they worked.

I have cantilever brakes now and I prefer those as they don't interfere with the main components you need when touring: Racks...

Has someone solved the racks + disc brake problem?

It's been solved by mounting the caliper on the chainstay.

I've decided to get a custom steel frame with 26" wheels (probably 38-40 spoke), MTB sized tires, disc brakes...

It's worthy of mention I am 6'8" 171lbs (going to try to gain at least 25 though) and want to beable to ride fully self-supported without a trailer.

Muito obrigada pela sua ajuda :)

www.rodcycle.com. I don't know if the largest stock UTB will work. It's a day trip from Vancouver to seattle for a fitting. With that nice loonie the price should look even better. They blew the handle bar sizing on mine (to wide) but it was a free swap 7 months later and no charge for the rewrap.

For a stock 700c look at http://www.rivbike.com/l. I saw a 6'6 guy riding a stock 68cm riv a few days ago and my jaw dropped.

PS: Don't let disc breaks be a deal breaker.

Okay so I want to buy my first and last touring bike. I want this thing to be able to go around the world or to the local islands for the weekend but with emphasis on the former.

/...many good companies, take a look at the Waterford Adventure Cycle
http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=648 ...\

I've decided to get a custom steel frame with 26" wheels (probably 38-40 spoke), MTB sized tires, disc brakes...

my main question is what kind of drivetrain should I get? I am leaning towards a 7 speed cogset for strength and, of course, a triple crankset but what about shifters/ brakes etc? I want bullhorn handlebars (like on a roadbike) durability and serviceability are key and I am opposed to Rohloff so don't suggest it :).

/.. Bar end shifters can be used with any system; and they are extremely reliable. The number of speeds is up to you. 9 is a good compromise..\

Also are Ortlieb panniers as good as I've been led to believe?

How does one determine an appropriate chainstay length when considering long feet (size 46 Euro) and panniers with custom 220mm crank arms (yes 220mm).

/.. Let the company determine chainstay length. Holy smokes, 220??..\

Any other advice for a bomber 2-wheeler?

/..take tons of time and do tons of research. Backpacker magazine is a good source of info on tents and stoves.
http://www.bakepacker.com/
http://mattscoffee.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=40&osCsid=7d4b65f9be61157ec77ad809ab529fd8
I like inline levers. Oh, 36 spokes is plenty, have the wheels handbuilt by a guy known for doing this sort of wheel. There are a bunch, but Peter White comes to mind ..\

It's worthy of mention I am 6'8" 171lbs (going to try to gain at least 25 though) and want to be able to ride fully self-supported without a trailer.

/.. get someone to teach you how to lift weights ..\

Muito obrigada pela sua ajuda :)

..

I'd probably skip on the disc brakes. They work well and are robust, but are heavy and will be very difficult to repair in the field. Get a nice pair of cantis with high-quality pads.

Drivetrain, I'd go with 9 speed MTB parts (Deore XT?). Plenty strong and easy to get replacement parts. Obviously go for as low gearing as possible, definitely triple.

I don't think I'd go for bullhorns on a touring bike. Drop bars with bar-ends gives you several positions and handlebar bag options, even aero bars if you're really going long. Another option is trekking bars, which gives you a lot of hand positions.

Ortlieb makes excellent gear. The only thing is that most models iirc do not have a lot of pockets, which works for me but not for everyone.

True North Cycles offer custom made touring bikes and they are located in Guelph, Ontario and have a great reputation. I believe one of our forum members had a touring bike made by them.
Gordon p

http://www.truenorthcycles.com/bikes/touring-bicycles/

methinks if you are considering going custom, you should probably know all these answers..
or your builder should guide/help you.

you should probably do a bit more thinking/reading/research to see if this is what you truly want..

nothing like having an expensive, custom-built, last you for-the-rest-of-your-life bike built, then learning it isn't what you really want...

You might want to contact Sam Whittingham of Naked bicycles on Quadra Island (http://www.timetogetnaked.com/) He built me a touring bike a couple of years ago and I'm very happy with the end product.After a two hour plus talk /discussion and custom fitting I had him build it with tandem tubing,disc brakes,bosses for cantilever brakes,four bottle spots,9 speed casette,3 chain rings,and heavy duty wheels and spokes. Sounds like what you are looking for in your bike. It's not that far for you to pop over and do the same.Also some guy by the name of Lance who supposidly knows something about bikes liked one of his bikes so much he bought it.

Hey, I was actually thinking about getting my bike from Naked. Sam's proximity to my home in Vancouver is a huge selling point too as I have major trust issues with courier companies and my cherished belongings. So is your bike the green one featured in the gallery section on his website? The way your bike is speced out sounds just how I want mine apart from the braking system. Will you tell me here or in PM what kind of wheels you have on the bike? Tell me everything you care to tell me about it actually. What kind of shifters? Have you had any problems with it? How many miles on it? What kind of drivetrain also. How much did you pay for it?

You need to direct your custom bike frame questions to the rare builder experienced in making extra large touring bikes.

I directed two friends- one 6'7" to Bruce Gordon and the other one 6'9'' to Santana Cycles for their frames. They have been very happy with the results. Since these were late '90's bikes you would need to contact each builder for their current offerings. Serrota also comes to mind as a large frame builder.

Bruce Gordon offers a 26" wheel RockNRoad EX that could suit your needs including his CrMo racks that I have happily used for 20 years on and off road on my RNR.

Your desire for 220mm cranks will pose problems with bottom bracket height and stability due to a raised center of gravity to prevent pedal strike. I use 181mm for my size 49 shoes. How did you choose the 220's?

For wheels look to Peter White Cycles for quality components and build.

Okay great! Thanks for the tall specific info! That makes a big difference. Everyone says "sure, we can build it" but what they really mean is: "Sure, we'll take your money and build you an experiment" :notamused: Don't they know better than to elicit the wrath of the evil? Fools! Where was I?

Oh yeah, I decided on 220mm cranks based on the advice of Lennard Zinn who built me a fantastic bike and I find that if it has raised the centre of gravity, the effect is negligible. I can ride and manoevre with the best of them, often better :D Now when I ride with 175mm cranks I feel ridiculously underpowered.

methinks if you are considering going custom, you should probably know all these answers..
or your builder should guide/help you.

you should probably do a bit more thinking/reading/research to see if this is what you truly want..

nothing like having an expensive, custom-built, last you for-the-rest-of-your-life bike built, then learning it isn't what you really want...

Want is irrelevant, gas is $1.40 a litre in Canada...if I want to travel, it's gonna be by bike :)

Oh and asking questions is a good way to form opinions. I am still several months away from ordering the bike, this is all part of th' learning process.

My bike is the heavy duty Globetrotter featured about seven rows down on the gallery page . It has Shimano friction shifters mounted on Paul Thumbies for shifting, tandem mountain bike 40 spoke rims with White Industries hubs with Schwalbe Marathon tires, good quality headset(FSA?),Avid mechanical disc brakes, S&S couplers. Give Sam a phone call ,I'm sure that he'll remember the build and would be able to tell you more.

You seem to have very small feet for such a tall guy. 46 only, at 6'8"? I'm a hair below 5'11" and I wear a 45.5. Maybe I just have big feet. Anyway, 220 crankarms seem kind of absurd. I didn't even know they made those! I know that Ondrej Sosenka, the hour record holder, is approximately 6'6-6'7 and uses 190mm crankarms and those are already really long.

Contact Dennis Coffman @ Rincon Cycles in Carpinteria,California. [805-684-9466] intandemvideo AT verizon.net

He is an avid bike tourist and a very knowledgeable bike shop owner and may have a bike for you. He is 6'9" or so.

My friend, arctos, gave me this thread. I am Dennis and own Rincon Cycles in Carpinteria, CA. I am 6'9", in the morning anyway, and might be able to give you a tall persons perspective on custom bikes and options. I have toured with many types of bikes; mountain, tandem, road, folding (all custom builds, obviously) around the world and have helped many big and tall riders over the last 30 years get their bikes ready to ride. I have noticed some suggestions in this thread that are not appropriate for people of our stature! Especially if you only want to do this once! Oh, and if you want to travel internationally, now or in the future, there is another planning stage for your frame and parts you need to consider. In my other profession, I have to travel with up to 30 checked pieces, with contents worth 100's of thousands of dollars; I have gotten real proficient at packing valuable equipment so as to make it easy going through Customs and our very own TSA screeners. 805-684-9466, intandemvideo@verizon.net Hope to meet you when you tour the Pacific Coast! Dennis

Bar cons should be used instead of the brifters that some use. The brifters "look nice" but they have too many parts and can die faaaaar away from replacements. Barcons are simple and relatively cheap. You DON'T need brand new ones as they never wear out. Friction shifting lasts forever, even when the "distinct click" versions bite the dust...

Tires? Schwalbe Marathon with kevlar belt. Don't skimp on tires.

You seem to have very small feet for such a tall guy. 46 only, at 6'8"? I'm a hair below 5'11" and I wear a 45.5. Maybe I just have big feet. Anyway, 220 crankarms seem kind of absurd. I didn't even know they made those! I know that Ondrej Sosenka, the hour record holder, is approximately 6'6-6'7 and uses 190mm crankarms and those are already really long.

First of all, I'm not a dude. Second, I am the tall one with the ability to push big cranks sans problems, trust me, they work like a charm; Lennard Zinn knows his stuff and he rccomended them to me. Also, specing crank arms for time trialing is totally different than specing them for all-around triathlon bikes like my Zinn and certainly different than a touring setup so of course Sosenka is going to use shorter cranks...it's worthy of note that he is shorter than me too so he would use a shorter crank.

This is me after a long day driving through Vancouver: :twitchy:

This is me after a long day of riding: :D

My bike is the heavy duty Globetrotter featured about seven rows down on the gallery page . It has Shimano friction shifters mounted on Paul Thumbies for shifting, tandem mountain bike 40 spoke rims with White Industries hubs with Schwalbe Marathon tires, good quality headset(FSA?),Avid mechanical disc brakes, S&S couplers. Give Sam a phone call ,I'm sure that he'll remember the build and would be able to tell you more.

Hey that's a good lookin' bike! Looks bulletproof. How many clicks have you got on it now? I like the idea of the 40 spoke wheels. People on here are saying 36 is enough but I wonder what's with the gram savings? Better to have bomber wheels I figure. Anyways nice bike! What'd it cost you in the end? Are the Shwalbes worth the coin?

people are probably second guessing your odd requests and assertions because your original posts didn't sound very well informed, especially for someone shopping for an entirely custom touring bicycle (a club generally comprised of more seasoned denizens). i wouldn't be offended by it.

A 7 speed cogset probably won't work out so well. The easiest way to get a 7 speed set up these days would be to get a 7 speed freewheel but for a heavy duty bike you really don't want to use a freewheel due the design issues with them (the axle is left essentially hanging on most freewheel designs meaning that it is very easy to bend or break on the drive side). I'd go with either 8 or 9 speed mountain stuff. 9 speed may be better just due to availability of quality parts. I rode mountain bikes for a while and weighed in at around 230 lbs and never had drive train issues.

Your Zinn tri bike has some good features that you can adapt. The high BB does not raise the centre of gravity as people seem to think. This only happens when you raise the bb and maintain constant crank length ie raise the pedal-ground clearance. Zinn raises the BB and lowers the pedals (with longer cranks) retaining the same pedal clearance, rider position and COG. Even if you dont go as long as 220mm, you should still raise the BB to accomodate your selected crank length and ensure no teo-clip overlap with the front wheel.

Touring bikes are heavily loaded and you need a stiff frame to resist those loads, esp with a big rider.
Big frames are generally less stiff than their smaller counterparts. You need fat tubing for stiffness and perhaps a compact style frame to stiffen the traingles of the frame.
Canondale tourers have a reputation for stiffness and are popular with big riders. I believe they used to offer custom sizing , not sure if they still offer do. Their BB30 system (with oversized BB shell) might add more stiffness and you can use a std BB with an adapter.

You asked about chainstay length, this really needs to be longer than for a Med rider. The extra saddle height moves you back as well as up so weight is further back. You need panniers set back for heel clearance. By moving the rear wheel back you get more room better weight balance. Again longer chainstays need to be fatter tubes to retain stiffness. In the world of racing, fat chainstays are quite commonplace. If you like steel, Reynolds can make extra long tubesets.

YES! Thanks for that. That's what I call informed advice :D Just what I was lookin' for. Okay I will go with an 8 or 9 speed cogset.

people are probably second guessing your odd requests and assertions because your original posts didn't sound very well informed, especially for someone shopping for an entirely custom touring bicycle (a club generally comprised of more seasoned denizens). i wouldn't be offended by it.

Yeah that makes sense but I think people don't realise how painful it is to ride a stock bike when you are as tall as I am. I couldn't even dream of riding a stock bike with a full load without my knees aching.

One of the most unfortunate aspects of being really tall is that you almost never geta chance to "try before you buy" Not with clothes, not with bikes, not with anything :cry: So I have to buy custom and I come here to ask all you seasoned riders for advice. Seems like a good plan no?

I am 6'6" (in bike shoes) and am going through the same process. Similar issues in not being able to try before you buy. So I am doing lots of research. I am closing in on the Co-motion Americano with tandem rear wheel (symmetric, no dish) longer beefier chainstays, and pretty rugged components. Not a 26", though you might want to check it out at http://co-motion.com/single_bikes/americano_cp.html. Nice build and designed to be toured all over the world. With thier experience with Tandem bikes, they seem to have a good reputation for building strong bikes. Personally, I am just planning to use it for a CC touring / Century bike that can accommodate a 6'6" 270lb person, so YMMV.

Time to bring back this thread from the past. Have you got your tour bike,if you haven't yet here is some bike porn from Sam's web site to tease you. :D http://www.fortebikes.com/Alfine_Bike.htm Not that this one would make a great touring bike but I think it would definately be a conversation starter on tour.

... 220 crankarms seem kind of absurd. ...

I have to agree. AnnaMossity, I understand you are unusually tall, and have the advice of a well known expert, but that doesn't mean he's right.

I, for example, am 6' tall; and I have relatively long legs for my size. For the last year or so I have been experimenting with various different crank arm lengths on several different bicycles, and have found

127 --on a single-speed folding bike used only for commuting -- seems too short
140 --formerly on my touring bike-- seemed a little short
140 --on the folding bike I use every day, mostly for commuting-- seems just about right
155 --on my tandem, which I use for touring-- is very comfortable
165 --on my Xtracycle, which I use for carrying relatively heavy loads-- is okay
165 --on an ancient 3-speed that I use for medium range touring-- is too long, but the chain rings have little Norman soldiers on them (see my avatar), so I live with it
170 --currently on my touring bike-- is uncomfortably long, and will soon be changed
170 --currently on my recumbent bike --is terribly long; I have 145's ready to install on this one soon
175 --on three other bicycles-- were, in retrospect, the reason I stopped riding those bikes.

The disadvantage of short crank arms is that to maintain speed I have to pedal relatively fast, so my heart rate goes up and I get too hot. The disadvantage of long crank arms is that the muscles of my thighs get very sore. The happy medium (for me) seems to be in the 150 - 155 mm range.

You are somewhere around 10% taller than I. So assuming we have similar proportions, 220 mm crank arms for you would be like 198 mm crank arms for me. I know I could ride with crank arms that long, but I doubt I could tour on that.

Somehow we should take into account the fact that you are only 3% heavier than I, but my post is already too long.

But since you are asking for advice, my advice is that custom made 220 mm crank arms are a bad idea. I'm sure you can crank them, but after an extended period of time you will almost certainly experience discomfort in your legs, and you may actually injure your knees. I would recommend 170's.

Er....I'm 5'2" and ride 170's on my road bikes, 172.5's on my MTB

I have to say that I am amazed at the notion of 220 mm crank arms. If you assume that someone 5' 10" tall is likely to use 170mm crank arms then it would seem like someone 6' 8" tall would use 192.5mm crank arms.

Or to look at it a different way, if someone 5'10" usually prefers 170 mm crank arms, 220 mm crank arms would fit someone 7' 6 -1/2" tall.

I don't see any reason they shouldn't scale by a normal ratio and proportion calculation. Am I missing something here or are they REALLY long even for someone 6'8" tall?

Er....I'm 5'2" and ride 170's on my road bikes, 172.5's on my MTB

I know it can be done; my son around 4' 11" and he's using 170's (I'm a bad father!). But I am sure you will be happier with shorter ones --in your case, much shorter ones.

I know it can be done; my son around 4' 11" and he's using 170's (I'm a bad father!). But I am sure you will be happier with shorter ones --in your case, much shorter ones.

Nope, I'm happy with them as they are, and the professional medial bike fit I had agrees.

Not wanting to start a big 'I have the right size and I'm going to talk everyone into it" kind of deal here, just saying what I have.

peace

Nope, I'm happy with them as they are, and the professional medial bike fit I had agrees.

Not wanting to start a big 'I have the right size and I'm going to talk everyone into it" kind of deal here, just saying what I have.

peace
I suspect that there is a lot of variance of what is acceptable and we are all individuals. What you are using is a little on the long side. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

Edit: To put this into perspective that is about equivalent to the OP's choice and makes the OP's choice seem a little less extreme.

...I'm happy...
Cool, that's what matters!


... professional medial bike fit ...
Okay, that's a new one on me! Thanks to Google, I am now enlightened.;)

Seriously, though, I find that professionals often have little incentive for thinking outside the box and therefore often give unimaginative advice. Thus they take various measurements and determine, by p2c2e, that the size you need is exactly the one that's standard on most bicycles sold. How convenient!


Not wanting to start a big 'I have the right size and I'm going to talk everyone into it" kind of deal here, just saying what I have. :innocent:


peace
+1!

I have to say that I am amazed at the notion of 220 mm crank arms. If you assume that someone 5' 10" tall is likely to use 170mm crank arms then it would seem like someone 6' 8" tall would use 192.5mm crank arms.

Or to look at it a different way, if someone 5'10" usually prefers 170 mm crank arms, 220 mm crank arms would fit someone 7' 6 -1/2" tall.

I don't see any reason they shouldn't scale by a normal ratio and proportion calculation. Am I missing something here or are they REALLY long even for someone 6'8" tall?


2 things: maybe my math is off but straight proportions I get 194.3 rather than 192.5 from your first para. 2nd thing, women tend to be a lot more leggy than men, so I don't see why it would be a straight proportion. My wife is shorter than me but her legs are longer.

2 things: maybe my math is off but straight proportions I get 194.3 rather than 192.5 from your first para. 2nd thing, women tend to be a lot more leggy than men, so I don't see why it would be a straight proportion. My wife is shorter than me but her legs are longer.
Agree on the 194.3. I think I must have plugged in a wrong value somewhere.

True, on the women typically having longer legs and shorter torsos, but since we don't know inseam or PBH...

After comparing it to a 5'2" rider with 170 mm, then 220 doesn't seem quite as extreme. Lots of short riders use 170 mm and do fine. Most of them probably just do it because that is what was on the bike though, as opposed to seeking it out.

It does make me wonder if they mash a big gear. It is kind of hard for me to imagine spinning with the equivalent length for me, but I haven't tried it so I really don't know.

Edit:
I should say no offense is intended toward anyone. If it works that is what matters. I am mostly just curious and not trying to say anyone is wrong.

Agreed: women tend to have longer legs and shorter torsos than men. But lacking specific data on everyone's specific proportions, I will have to ignore proportions for now.

And, agreed: if 170 mm cranks are right for a 5'2" rider, then 220 mm should be just about right for a 6'8" rider. Therefore 197.5 mm cranks would be just about right for a 6' rider, such as myself.

The point I want to make is that I have actually tried a wide variety of crank arm lengths, and came to a conclusion that I initially found quite surprising, namely that most people ride with crank arms that are too long.

Clearly crank arm length is extremely forgiving; few riders are able to notice a difference of 5 or 10 mm, and fewer still have tried a range of crank arms ranging more than 10 mm, since cranks smaller than 165 and longer than 175 are uncommon.

I certainly mean no offense toward anyone, but at the same time I will stand by my conclusion: some people really do ride bicycles with crank arms that are too long. There's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you want to do. It doesn't make you a bad person; but nor does it make you a hero. My advice for everyone would be, if you're going to try different crank arm lengths, you have to try radically different lengths; differences of less than 2 cm are insignificant.

To that end, I'm all for everyone trying 220 mm crank arms. But it will be expensive, and I'm pretty sure no one will like them very much.

If you don't want my advice, of course, that is fine. But the title of this thread was "need advice..."; and the subject of crank arms was raised. I concluded this would be a good place to give my advice.

Cheers!:beer: I'll be happy to discuss this ad infinitum, but don't want to (contintinue to) be a bore about it.

--Rudi

Why don't you just get a bike from Zinn, he should understand the needs of a tall ride and have plenty
of 220mm cranks too.