Advocacy & Safety - Locking up versus walking bike inside a business

This is an issue that's really been bothering me. I live in Los Angeles. Sometimes I enjoy running errands on my bike rather than taking the car; it keeps me in better shape, and saves a little gas. But there's a problem; this is not the safest city for locking up a bike. Many stores have pan-handlers, bums, crack-addicts, and unlicensed day-labor workers sitting outside with lots of time on their hands, and not much change in their pockets. I'm not going to say all these people are dishonest, but it's safe to say a few of them are desperate or uninhibited enough to do just about anything.

I try to avoid the issue of locking up by walking my bike carefully and calmly into a business with the hope that they won't mind. Some places are positively welcoming to me. Other places seem to pay no attention to me, which is also fine. But occasionally I'll come across a place where some eager security guard or front-counter attendant invents an unwritten policy against someone walking their bike into the store. "Sir, you can't have that in here."

Recently I was in a hardware store. I talked to half a dozen workers there, asking questions, shopping. Everyone was friendly and helpful. When I finally went to the front counter to pay, the girl told me I couldn't have the bike in there, and that I had to take it outside.

On another occasion I was in a large grocery store. I've walked the bike through this place four or five times before. This time a security guard told me I had to leave the bike outside. Not wanting to cause trouble, I just left. There were too many street people sitting outside for me to feel good about locking up.

In each of these cases, there was either no rack on premises, or the rack was in an area where nobody inside the store could see it; no security, no cameras, and not near enough the entrance of the store for shoppers to be passing by as they come and go.

Even if I were to lock up with a U-lock, someone could still steal my seat and post, my pedals, cycle computer, wedge pack (co2, tools, etc.). I imagine a dérailleur could even be pawnable for enough money to buy a hit of crack.

As I wander around stores, I notice people pushing strollers, shopping carts, personal hand-truck style shopping baskets, riding Little Rascals, and of course wheelchairs. Is a well-maintained and clean bike really any more of a threat to the store's ability to transact business peacefully than any of these other devices?

How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?

Ask for manager & explain.
Send polite letter asking permission.

Other rolling things you mention belong in store. Bike doesn't.

Are you RIDING your bike in the store? Next time ask them in a loud voice if they ban wheelchairs. Ask them if customers need to remove their shoes. Ask them if they know of a similar store that is more welcoming of bikes.

Personally, I have no qualms about locking up my bike.


This is an issue that's really been bothering me. I live in Los Angeles. Sometimes I enjoy running errands on my bike rather than taking the car; it keeps me in better shape, and saves a little gas. But there's a problem; this is not the safest city for locking up a bike. Many stores have pan-handlers, bums, crack-addicts, and unlicensed day-labor workers sitting outside with lots of time on their hands, and not much change in their pockets. I'm not going to say all these people are dishonest, but it's safe to say a few of them are desperate or uninhibited enough to do just about anything.

I try to avoid the issue of locking up by walking my bike carefully and calmly into a business with the hope that they won't mind. Some places are positively welcoming to me. Other places seem to pay no attention to me, which is also fine. But occasionally I'll come across a place where some eager security guard or front-counter attendant invents an unwritten policy against someone walking their bike into the store. "Sir, you can't have that in here."

Recently I was in a hardware store. I talked to half a dozen workers there, asking questions, shopping. Everyone was friendly and helpful. When I finally went to the front counter to pay, the girl told me I couldn't have the bike in there, and that I had to take it outside.

On another occasion I was in a large grocery store. I've walked the bike through this place four or five times before. This time a security guard told me I had to leave the bike outside. Not wanting to cause trouble, I just left. There were too many street people sitting outside for me to feel good about locking up.

In each of these cases, there was either no rack on premises, or the rack was in an area where nobody inside the store could see it; no security, no cameras, and not near enough the entrance of the store for shoppers to be passing by as they come and go.

Even if I were to lock up with a U-lock, someone could still steal my seat and post, my pedals, cycle computer, wedge pack (co2, tools, etc.). I imagine a dérailleur could even be pawnable for enough money to buy a hit of crack.

As I wander around stores, I notice people pushing strollers, shopping carts, personal hand-truck style shopping baskets, riding Little Rascals, and of course wheelchairs. Is a well-maintained and clean bike really any more of a threat to the store's ability to transact business peacefully than any of these other devices?

How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?

Do you want to be treated as a vehicle (not allowed in a store but allowed on the road ) or a mobility device (not allowed on roads but allowed in stores)?

At the very least, if they had no rack to lock your bike to. I'd refuse to shop there. There are U bolts that are pretty darn hard to break open. / Be careful and lock up your wheels. Some will even steal your wheels. Easily done by taking off your front wheel and locking your front and back wheel together with one lock. / Next problem. There are jerks out there. If they can't steal your bike, they will vandalize it.

If a place doesn't have a rack or a decent place to lock; 1.I ask for a rack to be installed, both with local store management and HQ, 2. I take my bike inside.
I haven't had trouble yet.

If you are not getting the answer you want, continue up the chain of command to the store's manager, owner, or corporate office. At some point you'll get an answer from a person who actually matters and you can act accordingly.

Some estimate based on the rate of gas increases. At the rate of rise, if it does not stop or decline. 7 dollars sometime in 2010. That will make bikes more acceptable

Are you RIDING your bike in the store? Next time ask them in a loud voice if they ban wheelchairs. Ask them if customers need to remove their shoes. Ask them if they know of a similar store that is more welcoming of bikes.

Big differences between bikes and wheelchairs

Even if I were to lock up with a U-lock, someone could still steal my seat and post, my pedals, cycle computer, wedge pack (co2, tools, etc.). I imagine a dérailleur could even be pawnable for enough money to buy a hit of crack.

This is pretty easy. First find a cycle computer that you can take with you, should just fit right into a pocket. Maybe look for a messenger bag or back pack to carry the tools, then a set of locking skewers for the wheels and seat post. Another option are is U-Lock with 2 Krypto-style cables to connect both front wheel and seat/seat post to the lock. With a small U-Lock, you can easily lock to a parking meter.

Check with city government and see if they have any type of program to have bike racks placed. Or request from management at these stores, especially if you can find other cyclists to support it.

LADOT Sidewalk Parking Program (http://www.bicyclela.org/Parking.htm#Sidewalk)

How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?

Get a Brompton.

http://www.brompton.co.uk/images/photos/fold001.jpg
http://www.brompton.co.uk/images/photos/fold002.jpg
http://www.brompton.co.uk/images/photos/fold003.jpg

Alternatively, get a Bike Friday tikit ...

http://www.youtube.com/user/bikefriday

http://bikefriday.com/sites/default/files/images/tikit-foldunfold150_0.gif

I lean in the door and say "Okay if I bring this in?"

So far, nobody's said no.

This is an issue that's really been bothering me. ......
How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?



One way to make life easier for cyclists is to REDUCE tolerance of petty crime, which is why zero-tolerance policies in cities (accompanied with three strikes-your out) have been so effective.

I think ya have to play it by ear. If they have some room up front to tuck the bike, thats fine. I try to keep the bike in sight at all times, no matter where I put it. I doubt most businesses can handle bicycles indoors. The ease with which they are stolen is one of the disadvantages they have as a mode of transport.

To make the world more bike friendly we have to have secure bike locations. The problem is similar to motorcycles: its easy for someone to 'nick it!' as they say in Britain.


roughstuff

why not just drive a beater bike for errands?

I did this all the time in southern CA and rarely had a problem. I brought my bike into the bank, hardware store, auto parts store, etc. The only place I ever really had a problem was the Post Office in Costa Mesa, which had no bike racks either. OTOH I rarely went into a chain grocery store where you may be more likely to run into this.

If you frequent the same places, try asking ahead of time for permission. If you're turned down, try other businesses 'til you get a "yes," then patronize them.

The main reason I can see for not allowing bikes, besides petty dictator syndrome, is having to keep aisleways completely clear for fire/emergency purposes. The stuff that's there already is approved. Anything else, such as your bike, could be a code violation.

Consider a beater bike for around town, and security bolts on the seatpost, wheels, etc. "Pitlock" is a good brand.

Do you want to be treated as a vehicle (not allowed in a store but allowed on the road ) or a mobility device (not allowed on roads but allowed in stores)? when you put it that way, the only thing to do would be lock it up

It's funny we spend so much time arguing for fair use of the road and launching share the road campaigns, yet want special treatment and exceptions to the rules.

You just have to get creative in locking your bike. One of the reasons I will be switching out from a U-Lock as a primary to one of the 5 foot Kryptonite chains. More versatility for utility poles or other large diameter objects. My current grocery store has a really crappy rack, so I stop the bike across the street at the bus stop where there are good racks and walk to the store. Minor inconvenience, but better security. Maybe there is a good, strong rack 1 street over. Lose the convenience, but increase the security.

Since I live in rural Northern NY, I rarely even bother to lock up my bike. On the couple of occasions that I've felt iffy about leaving it out front of the store, I've usually just parked in right inside the doors in an unobtrusive sport.


It's funny we spend so much time arguing for fair use of the road and launching share the road campaigns, yet want special treatment and exceptions to the rules.

Like everything else in A&S, we need to portray ourselves as the victims.

Would you expect to bring your car into the store? What about a motorcycle?

I was just at the McDonald's in downtown Dallas. No place to lock up outside, street-people-central area, so I walked it inside. A guy tells me I'm not supposed to bring it inside, but he can watch it for me. But wait- is he even an employee there? Had a security shirt on, but didn't say McDonalds, didn't sayPolice, didn't say who he WAS with. Meanwhile, I've read the comments about them not wanting bikes in the drive through- they need to do something different here.

Would you expect to bring your car into the store? What about a motorcycle?

Both cars and motorcycles lock up with keys, and alarms, and have provided parking... when provided parking is made available for my bicycle, then I'll use it. But until then... if a business wants my money... they had better allow the bike inside.

Big differences between bikes and wheelchairs

Not as big as you'd think, I ride with a person who do to knee troubles can not walk around the block, but can cycle for miles.

Would you expect to bring your car into the store? What about a motorcycle?


If you can pick up a car or motorcycle and carry it away, then yes, I would expect to bring them inside.

As I wander around stores, I notice people pushing strollers, shopping carts, personal hand-truck style shopping baskets, riding Little Rascals, and of course wheelchairs. Is a well-maintained and clean bike really any more of a threat to the store's ability to transact business peacefully than any of these other devices?
Many of these (wheelchairs, strollers) appear not to have any reasonable alternative.


How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?
By not expecting to be able to bring bicycles into the store!


Next time ask them in a loud voice if they ban wheelchairs.
Yeah, it's not like those crippled people need the wheelchairs.


Not as big as you'd think, I ride with a person who do to knee troubles can not walk around the block, but can cycle for miles.
Does he use a wheelchair? I suspect that what is true for your friend is not typical for wheelchair users.

if a business wants my money... they had better allow the bike inside.

That's it. After years of carrying no lock, I know which businesses who are OK with me bringing in a bike, and patronize them, even if it's a longer way to go.

Once my local Post Office screamed "no bikes" in a very hostile way. Now I go to the PO in the next town over - even if driving.

There are a few places I deal with regularly that allow my bike inside, I believe partly because they know there's no place outside to lock them up. The chain-store comment was right, in my experience -- I work at a chain, five locations in town, and four of them demand that I not bring the bike inside. The fifth -- where I work -- knows me, of course, and only twice have I heard anything from the door people. Once they recognize me, they tend to shut up.

The bank I used to deal with told me once that I couldn't take the bike through the drive-up, but I could bring it inside; two other branches of the same bank didn't care. Fast-food needs bike parking and locking facilities, for sure; only one I know of in town has a rack.

If I'm told I can't bring my bike in, I point out the lack of racks, and that unless they're going to buy me a new one when this one gets stolen, it comes with me. If they get nasty about it, I tell them as I'm leaving that they just lost business from everyone I know.

That's it. After years of carrying no lock, I know which businesses who are OK with me bringing in a bike, and patronize them, even if it's a longer way to go.

Once my local Post Office screamed "no bikes" in a very hostile way. Now I go to the PO in the next town over - even if driving.

That's good; our main PO has a rack, but they block it a lot with misc. crap. Not once has anyone said a thing to me about bringing the bike in the door -- one yuppie femme mumbled something once about "being special" -- but that just made me smile wider....

Even if I were to lock up with a U-lock, someone could still steal my seat and post, my pedals, cycle computer, wedge pack (co2, tools, etc.). I imagine a dérailleur could even be pawnable for enough money to buy a hit of crack.

Many parts of LA have a *much* lower crime rate than you might expect. It might be a good idea to research your part of LA to decide what level of precautions to take.

The average drug addict at Beit T'Shuvah (a rehab center in West LA) does not know much about bikes. They do not ride bikes, and mostly don't know how to take one apart. I'm not sure if they're representative of all Angeleno addicts, but it is something to keep in mind. Most of the ones with theft convictions preferred to steal items that were more valuable or were immediately useful.

Further, most bike thefts are of the whole bike. The thief does not want to be noticed, and spending a few minutes removing a wheel or seatpost while everyone is watching is *not* what they want. The social dynamics if a homeless person "gets away" with a theft or just gets a stranger to give them money are pretty brutal. Much easier to shoplift if you want to steal while people are watching, since "normal" people won't try to kill you if you succeed. Soo... you can use this knowledge to set up a beater.

Fanny packs, messenger bags, backpacks and panniers may look dorky, but no store will complain much if you take them inside. They're normal and that means stores have a hard time enforcing bag check policies without having people scream "discrimination". Keep your tools and pump inside the bag that stays with you. Use a saddle and seat post that do not have a quick release, and if you have a comfortable but awful looking saddle, make sure it goes on the beater. If you are very concerned about theft, there are ways to make an Allen bolt take even longer to remove. No quick release for the wheels either. For around town, a cyclecomputer is overkill. If you need to keep track of time, wear a watch. If you need to keep track of distance, an online mapping system is Good Enough. Bolt on lights are fine, but ones that are easy to remove may walk off. If your bike is locked so it's a pain to bust the locks, most thieves will look for something else to steal.

If a store doesn't have a bike rack, a polite letter saying that you've stopped shopping there due to lack of bike parking is sufficient. A place that cares will add racks or try to come up with something to satisfy you. A place that doesn't is probably not a good place to shop.

Big differences between bikes and wheelchairs

Not as big as you'd think, I ride with a person who do to knee troubles can not walk around the block, but can cycle for miles.
The difference is that wheelchairs are specifically covered under the ADA, ICC/ANSI A117.1, UFAS and other accessibility codes and businesses are required to allow and facilitate access.
Bicycles are not covered under accessibility codes.

From a fire code/exiting point of view I can see why stores would be reluctant to have bikes in the aisles.
Having a large area near the customer service counter would be ideal. Leave your bike where it can be watched and pick it up when you are done shopping.

Having a large area near the customer service counter would be ideal. Leave your bike where it can be watched and pick it up when you are done shopping.

Now you're just being thoughtful and reasonable.

I fully agree that bikes and wheelchairs are in entirely different categories.

Strollers are not. Strollers have three or four wheels, sometimes pneumatic. Some of them are double-wide. Some are double-long. Most of them would enable someone to conceal product in them (a possible concern with a bike that has a trunk on the back). You push them along with one or two hands.

Walking a bike along with one or two hands takes up less space than strollers. Strollers aren't a protected class like wheelchairs. If a bike had a child seat on the back it would be a funny looking stroller. If a stroller had pedals it would be a recumbent. ;)

I believe that the disincentive to allowing bikes in stores is that if one person is allowed to carefully walk a clean bike through the store, another (dozen or so) can bring his (their) dirty old MTB beater with all of his life's possessions bungee-corded on. In other words, I think the intolerance comes from a desire to keep out riff-raff.

Anyway, I guess I'll remove the stuff I normally ride with like a saddle wedge, and try locking up. ...maybe the best thing to do is to specifically list the bike on my homeowner's insurance policy.

Bringing your bicycle into a place of business is kinda like bringing a camel into the place. Maybe more accurate - it is like somebody roller blading in the place. It is goofy and out of place

Ya ya, we all love our bicycle and we all think our bicycle are so precious that every place of business should have appropriate bicycle racks. But.... that just isn't the real world.

You CAN bring your bike inside, but in fact, you will look like a kook. Ya, that's right. Other bicycle enthusiasts may understand, but they will probably be outside the building riding their bikes.

You are better of not looking like a fruitcake. Leave your bicycle outside. There is always something to lock a bicycle to - a tree, a signpost, a fence, a mean dog....

(don't worry, I have been a fruitcake too, but gave it up eventually)

If I'm told I can't bring my bike in, I point out the lack of racks, and that unless they're going to buy me a new one when this one gets stolen, it comes with me. If they get nasty about it, I tell them as I'm leaving that they just lost business from everyone I know.

You know, believe it or not, when you make a big stink about bringing a bicycle into a place of business and then you leave in a huff saying, "you won't be seeing me or my business again!", the management and staff of the business feel some degree of relief and they hope that you will keep your promise and not come back.

...occasionally I'll come across a place where some eager security guard or front-counter attendant invents an unwritten policy against someone walking their bike into the store. "Sir, you can't have that in here."

Recently I was in a hardware store. I talked to half a dozen workers there, asking questions, shopping. Everyone was friendly and helpful. When I finally went to the front counter to pay, the girl told me I couldn't have the bike in there, and that I had to take it outside.

On another occasion I was in a large grocery store. I've walked the bike through this place four or five times before. This time a security guard told me I had to leave the bike outside. Not wanting to cause trouble, I just left. There were too many street people sitting outside for me to feel good about locking up...

How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?
Develop a personal relationship with the business owners or managers of the stores you patronize. I had a security guard tell me, "Sir, you can't bring a bike on the parking lot." He called the police, who did nothing when they saw I was leaving with my groceries. I later contacted the grocery store manager (after writing a very nice letter to the chain's headquarters, telling them how long I'd shopped there and how much I loved it, then telling them how upset the security guard's actions had made me) who had a meeting with parking lot security. It seems the grocery store is the main rent-payer to the owners of the strip mall who pay security, etc.

Anyway, security never bothered me again. :)

(The downside for me is that I feel bad for a guy who was only doing his job as he saw it.)

When I wind up at a store that doesn't have bike racks, I typically look for a sturdy signpost, tree, light post, or other immovable object that I can lock up to. There have been a few times I've locked up to shopping cart racks and pay phones.

BTW, some kids now bring their BMX's inside the store. Another competing grocery down the road never cares. ;)

Bringing your bicycle into a place of business is kinda like bringing a camel into the place. Maybe more accurate - it is like somebody roller blading in the place. It is goofy and out of place

Ya ya, we all love our bicycle and we all think our bicycle are so precious that every place of business should have appropriate bicycle racks. But.... that just isn't the real world.

You CAN bring your bike inside, but in fact, you will look like a kook. Ya, that's right. Other bicycle enthusiasts may understand, but they will probably be outside the building riding their bikes.

You are better of not looking like a fruitcake. Leave your bicycle outside. There is always something to lock a bicycle to - a tree, a signpost, a fence, a mean dog....


+1

You know, believe it or not, when you make a big stink about bringing a bicycle into a place of business and then you leave in a huff saying, "you won't be seeing me or my business again!", the management and staff of the business feel some degree of relief and they hope that you will keep your promise and not come back.

+2

Do you want to be treated as a vehicle (not allowed in a store but allowed on the road ) or a mobility device (not allowed on roads but allowed in stores)?

Does that have to be an either or? A bicycle being walked is not a vehicle, it's a pedestrian. A bicycle being ridden is a vehicle. I'm not aware of the law drawing such a line, but I'm guessing there is case law.

A bike can't be a mobility device: The ADA won't protect you on a bike. So that one is just out. But it has a similar profile to a wheel chair. However, wheel chairs are self limiting: A small percentage of people need them, and our culture is dependent on that staying true. Bicycles could theoretically explode in popularity.


The only store I have the audacity to bring my bike into is a bike shop. Half the time I need it in there to make my purchase: "I want one of these to go onto this bike." I'm not concerned about locking up, I'm just not going to take the time and I get a kick out of bringing my bike into a store :).

If bikes were to become more popular I don't think it unreasonable for many stores to provide indoor parking. For now, if I owned one of these stores, I'd probably pander to the guy who's not causing troubles and is buying stuff. If he was getting in the way, then he can leave his bike outside.


To the OP: Maybe you should get a less expensive bike, a cable lock, and a u-lock. Things which are bolted on are likely not theft targets (your pedals). Things which come off easy (your seat post) are theft targets. You can get mini cables to lock your seat to the frame, so if they wanted it the post they'd have to remove two bolts.

The difference is that wheelchairs are specifically covered under the ADA, ICC/ANSI A117.1, UFAS and other accessibility codes and businesses are required to allow and facilitate access.
Bicycles are not covered under accessibility codes.

From a fire code/exiting point of view I can see why stores would be reluctant to have bikes in the aisles.
Having a large area near the customer service counter would be ideal. Leave your bike where it can be watched and pick it up when you are done shopping.

Fire code?? Right. And if I'm pushing my bike around the store, fire alarm goes off... everyone heads for the exits. My bike goes with me... what happens to all the shopping carts full of merchandise? Yeah... they're abandoned in the middle of the aisles, making it more difficult for everyone else to get out.

Yes, I have been in a store during a fire alarm. ;)

Personally, I've never tried to take my bike inside a grocery store with me (Well... not entirely true. I used to stop at King Soopers regularly on the way to work and park my bike just inside the doors), but I have no problem at all walking into hardware stores and such with it.... nor with taking it into the bank or similar establishments.

I've had several stores TELL me to bring the bike inside when I tried to lock it up outside the door. ;)

But... gas prices are going to continue going up... more people are riding bikes for transportation... what happens when 20 people want to bring their bikes into the stores at the same time??? Better get used to finding outside parking now. ;)

How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?If the issue is sketchy-looking characters hanging around outside where the bike rack is, you have to express your concerns to the store manager beforehand, and try to reach an understanding about bringing your bike in with you when you shop there, so you can keep an eye on it.

Some store managers might accommodate you, some might not. Give your business to those who accommodate you.

I do a few things.

If there's a bike rack, I lock it up and bring the detachables in with me. I have a bag for this purpose, a bag which fits nicely in my Xtra's Freeloaders.

If I'm going in somewhere to eat and there aren't racks, but I have a good view outside and am in a good part of town, I'll lock the bike to itself in view of the window and watch it while eating. I only do this if I'm grabbing a quick bite, usually after work.

If I'm going shopping and there aren't racks, the bike comes into the store and gets locked to itself near customer service. I've never had a store get vexed, in fact they're usually cheerful about the change in routine. That said, I live in a mostly bike friendly city (look on the bright side, rather than the "hey, this 15% of people suck!" side).

Sometimes I lock my bike outside whatever business I'm visiting, sometimes I bring it in with me. It depends on which bike I have with me and how long I'll be in the business.

I've very rarely had a problem with anyone complaining about me bringing a bike into grocery stores, convenience stores, banks, the bakery, hardware stores, etc. Of course, most folks bring their dogs into these types of places in Seattle as well...

I confess that I don't understand the folks here posting negatively about bringing a bike into a business. I don't see the big difference between bikes, strollers, or rascal scooters - well, except that the bike takes less space and is less disruptive. The comparison to cars is just plain silly.

The very few times that someone has complained, I have politely thanked them while letting them know that I was no longer inclined to spend my money in their establishment. Life's too short to fight about it - there's always another business that actually wants to receive my business.

How do we go about improving business' tolerance for bikers?

Don't send Critical M@$$. :lol:

-Kurt

I fully agree that bikes and wheelchairs are in entirely different categories.

Strollers are not. Strollers have three or four wheels, sometimes pneumatic. Some of them are double-wide. Some are double-long. Most of them would enable someone to conceal product in them (a possible concern with a bike that has a trunk on the back). You push them along with one or two hands.

Walking a bike along with one or two hands takes up less space than strollers. Strollers aren't a protected class like wheelchairs. If a bike had a child seat on the back it would be a funny looking stroller. If a stroller had pedals it would be a recumbent. ;)


If you really think that strollers are in the "same category", then you aren't looking at them closely enough.

There are many obvious differences. The big difference is the fact that the stoller contains a child and bicycle does not.


I believe that the disincentive to allowing bikes in stores is that if one person is allowed to carefully walk a clean bike through the store, another (dozen or so) can bring his (their) dirty old MTB beater with all of his life's possessions bungee-corded on. In other words, I think the intolerance comes from a desire to keep out riff-raff.
Yes, it's much easier to have a simple rule (no bikes) than having to make exceptions or having to evaluate every case or having to argue with people who are being unreasonable (eg, wanting to bring in a muddy MTB).

If you really think that strollers are in the "same category", then you aren't looking at them closely enough.

There are many obvious differences. The big difference is the fact that the stoller contains a child and bicycle does not.

So what you're saying is that if I put a child seat on the back of the bike and take a kid into the store on it then it's ok?

How about a trailer?

I don't know. There are plenty of morbidly obese people who use wheelchairs who are not handicapped in any way. From a legal standpoint, are they truly disabled and "protected" by the law?

If you don't like the wheel chair example, we can go back to strollers and baby carriages.


Do you want to be treated as a vehicle (not allowed in a store but allowed on the road ) or a mobility device (not allowed on roads but allowed in stores)?

conduct your grocery shopping late at night.
enter the store with a pleasant smile on your face and greet employees with a friendly, "hi!"
store manager won't even care if one is pushing a bike while peacefully food shopping.

conduct your grocery shopping late at night.
enter the store with a pleasant smile on your face and greet employees with a friendly, "hi!"
store manager won't even care if one is pushing a bike while peacefully food shopping.

Early morning is the same... If you're one of only 5 or so customers in the store they pretty much don't hassle you about anything. ;)