Mountain Biking - Tires, tires, tires

Of all the threads I see on BikeForums it seems like tires are the forgotten component. A quick glance of today's list shows threads on forks, frames, and drivetrain, and wheel discussions are popular, but there are few threads on those round black things. I like tires. I think they're more critical than most/all of that other stuff since they are afterall the only part of the bike that's supposed to be touching mother earth. Tires, at least according to the volume of discussion they receive here, are neglected.

Tire selection can be a fairly technical topic, and a fairly individual topic. The tire that's right for one rider, type of riding, or area of the country will not necessarily be right for another. There's no "right answer" that works for everything, so I think tire knowledge is more important in tire selection than say drivetrain knowledge is in selecting a rear deraileur.

What has me inspired about tires? I just replaced a 1.9" Serac XC front tire with a 2.3" Kenda Nevegal DTC that frankly I was a bit sceptical of. The Dual Tire Compound construction has sticky rubber on the sides of the tires and harder rubber in the center tread (apparently for better wear and rolling resistance). The tread pattern consists of a center paddle with a cut down the middle (I assume this cut closes when the tire is pressed in to the ground), and side knobs that roughly align to the center paddle. The effect is one of a tire who's tread can conform well to abrupt, sharp surfaces like rock and root edges.

I'm a huge convert to the Nevegal, what a great tire. (I think 2.3" is the wrong size for me and my riding and I'm going to go with a 2.1" next time 'round.) On my first ride it saved me from three crashes that I would have endured with the old Serac. (I was pushing particularly hard since I wanted to really test the new tire).

I'm currently running a 2.1" WTB Velociraptor at the rear. The paddles on the tire work very well in New Hampshire's rooty, rocky, loose soil. Judging by the tire tracks on the local singletrack WTB sells quite a few Veloci's in this area, and they're effective. I really like mine, but I'm going to replace it with my new favorite the Nevegal. My plan is to swap the 2.3" Nevegal to the rear and buy a new 2.1" Nevegal for the front.

What do I like about the Nevegal? It grips. The edge knobs dig in to the loose stuff and don't let go easily. The edges stick like a tick to the rocks and roots. You really can feel the difference between the soft side rubber and hard center rubber. On center it exceeds the grip of my old Serac but I suspect only equals the Velociraptor's big center paddle. But the Velociraptor doesn't have that side grip that this tire does. When "scuffing" against the side of rocks/roots, etc the Nevegal feels like it's willing to just grab on whereas the Serac and the Veloci both skip off. And, when you finally do reach the limits of the Nevegal it still manages to scramble up enough grip to at least keep you on the bike. It certainly saved me from some inept bike handling that would have had me sprawled across the singletrack or sliding in to the brush on the old tires.

I can't wait to get the 2.1" for the front and mount the 2.3" on the rear. I run at a pretty high pressure but I suspect these tires will really come alive when they're softer, and that fat 2.3" out back will give me the confidence to go softer without pinch flatting. The center paddles have a bit of a ramp on one side and for the rear I think they'll be better off mounted backwards rather than forwards. Anyone run this configuration (Nevegal mounted backwards on the rear, forwards on the front)?

How about other tire stories. Anyone else really love the big black round parts of their bikes?

i have used mythos and tioga mud tires for the last 6 years i think its time to upgrade haha. I think i am going to go with the tioga XC or Fire XC.

Nevegals are great grippy tires, but the way they roll is a large sacrifice. I go back and forth between a Nevegal front, and a Mythos front depending on the conditions.

I can't wait to get the 2.1" for the front and mount the 2.3" on the rear.

The rule of thumb is to run the wider tire on the front.

The rule of thumb is to run the wider tire on the front.

Really? Why? Seems that most of the weight is over the back so spreading it out over the larger footprint in back would be better?

Wow, seven paragraphs propping WTB tires and (as far as I can tell) it's not a sponsorship plug ;).


Maxxis.

Wow, seven paragraphs propping WTB tires and (as far as I can tell) it's not a sponsorship plug ;).


Maxxis.

I'm verbose. :)

BTW the Nevegals are Kenda's, the Velociraptors are WTB's. If I were plugging them I'd at least do a good enough job to make you want to dig that credit card out of your pocket. :)

Of all the threads I see on BikeForums it seems like tires are the forgotten component. A quick glance of today's list shows threads on forks, frames, and drivetrain, and wheel discussions are popular, but there are few threads on those round black things. I like tires. I think they're more critical than most/all of that other stuff since they are afterall the only part of the bike that's supposed to be touching mother earth. Tires, at least according to the volume of discussion they receive here, are neglected.

What has me inspired about tires? I just replaced a 1.9" Serac XC front tire with a 2.3" Kenda Nevegal DTC that frankly I was a bit sceptical of. The Dual Tire Compound construction has sticky rubber on the sides of the tires and harder rubber in the center tread (apparently for better wear and rolling resistance). The tread pattern consists of a center paddle with a cut down the middle (I assume this cut closes when the tire is pressed in to the ground), and side knobs that roughly align to the center paddle. The effect is one of a tire who's tread can conform well to abrupt, sharp surfaces like rock and root edges.

I can't wait to get the 2.1" for the front and mount the 2.3" on the rear. I run at a pretty high pressure but I suspect these tires will really come alive when they're softer, and that fat 2.3" out back will give me the confidence to go softer without pinch flatting. The center paddles have a bit of a ramp on one side and for the rear I think they'll be better off mounted backwards rather than forwards. Anyone run this configuration (Nevegal mounted backwards on the rear, forwards on the front)?

How about other tire stories. Anyone else really love the big black round parts of their bikes?

You are right about the point that tires dont get much attention around here. It may be because, tires are fairly specific to the surface you are riding (trail, weather, season, style of riding etc.). Also, tire decisions are made based on personal preference. But, these two factors are common to any other MTB parts/components too. That does not stop us from talking about Fork choices.....or does it?

I also like the Nevegals. I used to run a Nevegal/Blue Groove combination on my hardtail. Now, I run Panaracer Rampage and IRC Mibros on two of my bikes. But my favorite tire is Continental Vertical Pro. For some reason they work well for the kind of XC/All Mountain riding I have been doing recently.

I personally like same size tires on front and back. But, if I were to run two different sizes, I would put the wider tire in the front and narrower one on the back. Your front tire is critical for braking power and traction. so you would want a wider profile up front with a little lower PSI (than the back tire).

BTW the Nevegals are Kendas, the Velociraptors are WTBs.Oops. Shows you how much I wasn't paying attention. Wellllllll . . . they're all just 'them other brands' to me ;)

BTW, Welcome back Sherpa!

I think the rolling resistance was the big downside of the Nevegals, but I don't know if that's just because they're so much wider than my old tires. I don't race and rolling resistance isn't a big deal for me, which is probably why I didn't mention it in the first post.

BTW, Welcome back Sherpa!

hi thanks. thanks for recognizing.

I am back from a fairly busy and productive one year (work, work, work) in South East Asia. I kind of stopped posting even before I left. one incident (with dminor being harassed by somebody) turned me off big time. But slowly but surely I am finding my way back.

thanks again born2bahick.

Of all the threads I see on BikeForums it seems like tires are the forgotten component.

Agreed... tires are often overlooked. One tire to another can make the biggest difference. Everyone seems to really like the Nevegal, but depending on what you ride they may not be the best.

I keep 2 wheelsets on hand- one with Crossmarks for fast rolling during good trail conditions and Fire XC's for more technical rides or when the trails are sloppy.

BTW, Welcome back Sherpa!I'll echo that one; it's been a few months. Good to see you here.

I have Blue Groove's on my bike, a friend has Weirwolfs, and he gets so much more mud on his bike. He has to stop and clean it off. I'm not sure if it just all sticks to the tire, or the tire throws it up, it collects right at the bottom of the seatpost.

I'll echo that one; it's been a few months. Good to see you here.

Thanks D. its great to be here.

Anyone use the IRC Mythos II XC race tires?
I just bought some, (couldnt pass up the deal) waiting for them to come in.

Maxxis Monorail.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s244/xcracer13/ecommerce_thumbnailaspx.jpg

Anyone use the IRC Mythos II XC race tires?
I just bought some, (couldnt pass up the deal) waiting for them to come in.

I have used the regular and semi slick xc tires that were mythos they have always been good to me. I ride in all kinds of conditions they generally do well.

I recently put the Panaracer Dart (Front) and Smoke (Rear) on my bike and I love them.

Really? Why? Seems that most of the weight is over the back so spreading it out over the larger footprint in back would be better?

Which wheel does the most braking? Which is more dangerous, having the front wash out or the back slide during turns?

I've been a Nevegal freak for the last couple yrs...gonna try out some Excavators next month, I think.

I never noticed the Nevegal rolling resistance issue except when I was on pavement OTW to the trail. The trail I most frequent is made up of some hardpack, lots of loose over hard with a bit of mud. Very little extended periods of hardpack where I'd notice the rolling resistance though. It seems the loose-over-hard takes that away.

I vote front wheel washing out.

The IRC Mythos are good. I can't remember exactly which version I was usign as it was a while ago but they were surprisingly grippy for a relatively low profile tread. By the same token not quitre as fast rolling as I had expected, but not bad either. Not great in extreme mud, but for that you really need a mud specific tire, which will suck in everything else IMO :/

They wore really fast though and that's why I stopped using them, but I almosta lways ride to the trailhead so that makes my needs a little bit different than a lot of other folk.

I used Velociraptors for years. Tried IRC Mythos, but they didn't work as well for me, either in rear-tire traction or front-tire sidehill grip. Then I got a new bike that had Nevegal stick-es (not the dual-compound tread version). I was skeptical of the thin sidewall and wimpy-looking tread blocks, but those tires have been the grippiest I've tried. I was disappointed that the rear tire got a slash in the sidewall after just a couple of rides. Kenda wouldn't warranty them, which I wasn't too pleased about, but the tires worked so well for me that I bought more. Also tried Panaracer Dart/Smoke and hated them; took them off after 2 rides. Didn't care for the Fire XC, either. Can't remember right now what else I've tried. I mostly ride 2.1 tires, although I've also run 1.95.

Which wheel does the most braking? Which is more dangerous, having the front wash out or the back slide during turns?

Good points all, and for me if I crash as a result of lost traction it's almost always because of the front. But when it comes to haulted progress and having to get off and walk the bike, that's almost always because of the rear (typically on a technical climb).

I've been a Nevegal freak for the last couple yrs...gonna try out some Excavators next month, I think.

I never noticed the Nevegal rolling resistance issue except when I was on pavement OTW to the trail. The trail I most frequent is made up of some hardpack, lots of loose over hard with a bit of mud. Very little extended periods of hardpack where I'd notice the rolling resistance though. It seems the loose-over-hard takes that away.
I'm going from a 1.9" tire with fairly few knobs to a 2.3" Nevegal, so the rolling resistance thing is pretty obvious, but it's an extreme case. But I'm glad to actually have grip up front for a change... :)

Nevegal in theory are great tires with its DTC which (should) give low rolling resistance on flat and smooth surface and tight grip when you corner. In theory, it sounds perfect.

However, they are quite horrible in many situation. In mud, since the edges are made to grip, they grip onto mud and never let go. In dry XC race course, the resistance is too high. If you want something that rolls at a reasonable speed for a weekend riding with friends just chilling out, they are no problem. For racing, I think they are horrible.

Btw, if you want something grippy, just get Conti King Series (Speedking/Mountainking) which offers from 2.1 --> 2.4 width.

The Nevegal is also quite heavy. On the other side, the Small Block 8 of Kenda which also has the DTC is working out really well on XC racing. It has small knobs so the resistance is much lower. However, they won't work in mud either, but at least they go fast so you can race on them unlike the Nevegal which is more a like weekend riding tire.

I have used the Kendas, IRC Serac XC, Conti Speed King, Explorer, Twister, Escape, Nokian NBX, and many more. The Kenda is like Nokian NBX. If you want speed, it won't give you, if you need to ride in the wet, Conti Edge works much better. If you want to race and like Kenda, the Small Block 8 is better. If you want DH, Nokian NBX 2.4"+ will work better too. I really don't get the point of the Nevegal.

I really don't get the point of the Nevegal.

Weekend rider who doesn't care how fast he's going but wants lots of grip. :)

Well anything has got to be better than my Bontrager Connection Trail tires. I was abke to get the IRC's for 14 a piece so I took it up. I have a a few races that Im going to try to attend, I hope they'll work.

I had wtb raptors or somthing big heavy things worked good just heavy. I think the mythos might be and east coast tires most people out west hate them. If i didnt have my last bike get stolen i would still be on them. I know many people here with the fire xc and love them i think its a differant dirt and conditions thing. Anyone running specialized tires?

Of all the threads I see on BikeForums it seems like tires are the forgotten component. A quick glance of today's list shows threads on forks, frames, and drivetrain, and wheel discussions are popular, but there are few threads on those round black things. I like tires. I think they're more critical than most/all of that other stuff since they are afterall the only part of the bike that's supposed to be touching mother earth. Tires, at least according to the volume of discussion they receive here, are neglected.


That is because your in a road bike forum. Try Mountain Bike Review forums. There's a whole discussion section on wheels and tires.


http://forums.mtbr.com/



Tire selection can be a fairly technical topic, and a fairly individual topic. The tire that's right for one rider, type of riding, or area of the country will not necessarily be right for another. There's no "right answer" that works for everything, so I think tire knowledge is more important in tire selection than say drivetrain knowledge is in selecting a rear deraileur.

What has me inspired about tires? I just replaced a 1.9" Serac XC front tire with a 2.3" Kenda Nevegal DTC that frankly I was a bit sceptical of. The Dual Tire Compound construction has sticky rubber on the sides of the tires and harder rubber in the center tread (apparently for better wear and rolling resistance). The tread pattern consists of a center paddle with a cut down the middle (I assume this cut closes when the tire is pressed in to the ground), and side knobs that roughly align to the center paddle. The effect is one of a tire who's tread can conform well to abrupt, sharp surfaces like rock and root edges.

I'm a huge convert to the Nevegal, what a great tire. (I think 2.3" is the wrong size for me and my riding and I'm going to go with a 2.1" next time 'round.) On my first ride it saved me from three crashes that I would have endured with the old Serac. (I was pushing particularly hard since I wanted to really test the new tire).

I'm currently running a 2.1" WTB Velociraptor at the rear. The paddles on the tire work very well in New Hampshire's rooty, rocky, loose soil. Judging by the tire tracks on the local singletrack WTB sells quite a few Veloci's in this area, and they're effective. I really like mine, but I'm going to replace it with my new favorite the Nevegal. My plan is to swap the 2.3" Nevegal to the rear and buy a new 2.1" Nevegal for the front.

What do I like about the Nevegal? It grips. The edge knobs dig in to the loose stuff and don't let go easily. The edges stick like a tick to the rocks and roots. You really can feel the difference between the soft side rubber and hard center rubber. On center it exceeds the grip of my old Serac but I suspect only equals the Velociraptor's big center paddle. But the Velociraptor doesn't have that side grip that this tire does. When "scuffing" against the side of rocks/roots, etc the Nevegal feels like it's willing to just grab on whereas the Serac and the Veloci both skip off. And, when you finally do reach the limits of the Nevegal it still manages to scramble up enough grip to at least keep you on the bike. It certainly saved me from some inept bike handling that would have had me sprawled across the singletrack or sliding in to the brush on the old tires.

I can't wait to get the 2.1" for the front and mount the 2.3" on the rear. I run at a pretty high pressure but I suspect these tires will really come alive when they're softer, and that fat 2.3" out back will give me the confidence to go softer without pinch flatting. The center paddles have a bit of a ramp on one side and for the rear I think they'll be better off mounted backwards rather than forwards. Anyone run this configuration (Nevegal mounted backwards on the rear, forwards on the front)?

How about other tire stories. Anyone else really love the big black round parts of their bikes?

Yes, I love my Nevegal stick-E's, however I do have to admit that I've only tried one other tire not worth mentioning. Lot's of grip and by the way, I do race and am concerned about rolling resistance. In order, I started with Nevegals 1.95 front and back, then to 2.1's front and back and now have settled on 2.1's back and 2.35's on the back. Front psi is 28-29 while the back is at 30psi. Most of my training is timed from a point A to a point B. This helps measure my progress in power. Here's what I've learned. Overall I faster with my current set up becuase, with the 1.95's, I need to run higher pressure, climbing there is less grip in the back and a more deflecting and bouncy steering at the front. I have to fight more to ride a straigt line as rocks deflect the steering more. This means that at the end of my time trial, I am more tired. Downhill is down right scary with the 1.95's, wash out is inevitable and crashing is very likely. With the 2.1's, the ride is more relaxed, better grip. Climbing is better and descending is better also. With my final combo 2.35 and 2.1, my ascending is the best. Great grip in the back. I can ride a straight line uphill over base ball sized rocks. The 2.35's role right over so I can concentrate more on the grind then fighting steering. The descents is the best and fastest with this combo. As for rolling resistance...this is different from a road bike as far as terrain goes obviously. So bottom line, what combo was the fastest? The 2.35 and 2.1's. And the added weight is not an issue however as evidenced by my times.

I don't have the lightest wheels and tires on my Blur XC, but that is in the plans when I go tubeless with standard Nevegals...

In short, thinner tires and higher pressures make for a very sketchy ride, making you slower than faster.

Well anything has got to be better than my Bontrager Connection Trail tires. I was abke to get the IRC's for 14 a piece so I took it up. I have a a few races that Im going to try to attend, I hope they'll work.

I really hate Bontrager tires....they just never work properly whenever I tried them on any trails.

Very timely thread for me as I'm looking for better tires. Anybody use Schwalbe tires?
Also, as you tire-up in width (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc) what are the pros/cons?

I really hate Bontrager tires....they just never work properly whenever I tried them on any trails.

The only good thing I have to say about these tires is that I rarkey ever got flats. And the Sidewalls have held up excellant against rocks and such.
but the grip sucks.
(it also helps I have those "extra ultra thick armored" tubes with slime in them and slime tire liners (I HATE FLATS)
lol/

Didn't care for the Fire XC, either.

I just put on these Panaracers, and for a first run, I thought they were pretty good in loose stuff.

ACHC mentioned Small Block 8's. Has anyone else given these a shot? They're a bit expensive, but look to be what would work well for me.

I run the Serac XCs when it's a little damp out. They are not the best tire in this situation, but my other tire are the Racing Ralphs. I find they roll a little better and I use these when it's dry. Have yet to try the Small Block's.

ACHC mentioned Small Block 8's. Has anyone else given these a shot? They're a bit expensive, but look to be what would work well for me.

Nice high volume, fast rollers on hardpack. I've been running one on the front but it doesn't really have enough side knobs/cornering bite for my taste. I'll give it a try on the rear one of these days after my Larsen TT's and WTB Vulpines wear out.

Very timely thread for me as I'm looking for better tires. Anybody use Schwalbe tires?
Also, as you tire-up in width (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, etc) what are the pros/cons?

Since you're in Boston your riding conditions are probably very similar to mine (lots of spots at Bear Brook for instance have the same rock garden feel as Lynn Woods). Never tried the Schwalbe but I find the Nevegal to be a perfect match for our terrain. The WTB Velociraptor is also quite popular and as you can see from my initial post it's a good tire for the local geography/geology.

Wider tires can be run at a lower pressure without pinch flatting, which means more grip (the tire can better conform to the trail surface, there's a larger contact area, etc). But lower pressure also means more rolling resistance and a wider tire is a physically larger and therefore heavier tire.

now have settled on 2.1's back and 2.35's on the back.

I assume you mean 2.35 on the front and 2.1 on the back, right?

the Schwalbe nobby nic is an excellent tire. I know a lot of xc guys who run the NN on the front and Racing Ralph on the rear.
The general rule for xc racing is that you run the fastest rolling tire you can get away with on the rear, and a larger tire on the front so you can still turn.
I'm a big fan of Maxxis' new Monorail, as well as the Crossmark and Ranchero. I've been playing around on my old Yeti on a new set of Maxxis Ardent's, and have found that those hook up in just about everything. My team mate won the pro Super-D at Angelfire last weekend on them. It rolls surprisingly fast given its size and knobs.
I'm also a prototype tester for Maxxis and they have a new xc tire in the 430-480g range coming through the pipes that I've been really happy with. I'm not sure what they are calling it but look for it at interbike ;)

the Schwalbe nobby nic is an excellent tire. I know a lot of xc guys who run the NN on the front and Racing Ralph on the rear.
The general rule for xc racing is that you run the fastest rolling tire you can get away with on the rear, and a larger tire on the front so you can still turn.
I'm a big fan of Maxxis' new Monorail, as well as the Crossmark and Ranchero. I've been playing around on my old Yeti on a new set of Maxxis Ardent's, and have found that those hook up in just about everything. My team mate won the pro Super-D at Angelfire last weekend on them. It rolls surprisingly fast given its size and knobs.
I'm also a prototype tester for Maxxis and they have a new xc tire in the 430-480g range coming through the pipes that I've been really happy with. I'm not sure what they are calling it but look for it at interbike ;)

I agree on the nobby nics, I'm running a 2.4'' NN up front with a 2.35'' maxxis larsen TT on the back on my singlespeed. I love it, one of the best combos ever, light, fast and plushy. I run the front at 22-25psi, and the rear at 27-30psi.

Another decent rear tire to think about is the Fast track by specialized. It rolls really fast and corners well too. It doesn't hook as well in acceleration a braking as something like a fire xc, but it rolls soo much better and corners just as well. I just wish it was bigger so I could run it at low psi like the larsen.

But lower pressure also means more rolling resistance

Not always. On rough terrain, lower pressure can actually reduce rolling resistance.

Soon I'm going to be trying DMR Moto Diggers.

http://www.dmrbikes.com/?Section=products&pageType=item&category=22&CategoryName=Tyres&itemid=TYRDGRW

that looks like a nice beefy tire smashy!

I used Sb8's for part of this season and loved them....until I tried Maxxis Crossmarks exceptions series. They are heavier then the SB8 but seem to track better and roll faster. Both tires work great in SoCal.

I'm running a "2.7" Minion DHF on the front and a 2.4 Nevegal on the back, because the the "2.7" Minion DHR wore out uber wuick, I was broke, and had a Nevegal in the shed. Not a big fan of nevegals for my kind of riding - flowy, dusty, slippery, rocky DH, but I'm broke so I can't complain. New Minions front and rear (except, DHFs') are next on the "to spend" list.

Any more informed suggestions for tires to be used by a DHer in rocky (sharp rocks I might add), dusty conditions?

Thanks for the recommendations, upsidedown1.