Hey, I am a pretty inexperienced rider looking to move away from dependence on my car, to getting around by bike. Most of the places I would need to go are within 2 miles or closer of my home. I live downtown in a small town and traffic safety is not a huge concern.
My son starts kindergarten in fall, it is a mile from our house. No bus service. He currently is riding a small bike with training wheels and is still mastering braking, but he's getting there. I'm also pregnant, due in July. When I return to work after maternity leave my daily travel will look a little like this:
* Take son to school about a mile away
* Drop baby at childcare center next door
* Go to my workplace about one mile from school/daycare
* Go one mile after work to daycare & school to pick up baby and son
* One mile back to our home
It is *mostly* fairly flat along the entire route. Winter here is fairly mild, but we do have the occasional small amount of "wintry mix". Originally I had thought we'd walk this route, I'd push baby in a stroller and leave the stroller at daycare during the day, then get it back each evening. But some other folks suggested biking it.
Having all those details, what makes the most sense? How old does baby need to be to ride in a baby seat on a bike? What happens if on the way to daycare in the evening a nasty lightning storm starts up and I don't want to ride my kids home in it, but the center is closing and kicking us out the door?
I'm very interested in hearing from other parents of young kids who commute by bike with them. I've heard a lot of rec's for a trailer but I'm not wild about the idea. Seems less maneuverable to me.
Which bike would be a good choice? I have looked at the Electra Townie 7 and like it, went on a (short) test ride. Then I read on another thread on here that it uses "low-end" components relative to its overall price. Is that true? Also even though I like the style I worry a bit that maybe something more boring is less likely to be stolen. Ultimately I need value more than style, but I REALLY like the "flat-foot" concept and the step-thru frame.
Sorry this is so long! Any advice?
Torrilin
05-27-08, 01:47 PM
For me, walking that distance would be about a half hour each way. I walk fairly quickly and rather enjoy it. Biking that distance would be 10-15 minutes each way, not counting stops. Either one would work for me, but I'd probably lean towards walking given my preferences. I tend to save my bike for longer trips or ones where I'm carrying a lot of stuff. A small child would not move at the same speed I do, so if I had one along, I'd budget my time differently *g*. It might be a good idea to experiment with walking your route with your son now. (obviously, this is a bad idea if you are on bedrest or are having a rougher pregnancy - talk with your doctor if you're not sure)
For the kind of riding I do and the way my body is built, an Electra is not a good choice. Their frames just don't fit me comfortably. IMO it's important to have your bike be comfortable since then you use it more and for longer distances. Pretty doesn't hurt either. Different people have different bodies, so bike fit is pretty individual. A bike that hurts me may suit someone else very well. I'd try out as many different bikes as you can, even ones that look uncomfortable or a bit weird for what you're doing. Some things that look comfortable may turn out to be very painful, and some things that look weird or uncomfortable may turn out to be comfortable. Depends on your body, and the only way to tell is to try it. Test ride in the clothes you'll ride in. What is comfortable while you're pregnant may not be what is comfortable when you've delivered. I would *not* rush into a bike now.
It also takes your body a bit to adapt to biking. When you start out, trying to go more than a mile or two at a time might hurt, even if you're in very good shape and the bike fits well. Your muscles won't be used to the kinds of movement you're asking them to do, so they get sore. Once you're used to biking a particular distance, it shouldn't hurt. It's fairly common for new cyclists to find that their wrists or rear ends hurt because the handlebar or saddle they're using doesn't fit well. Both are an easy part to swap out, and it's not a horribly expensive change.
Step through frames are often a bit heavier than a diamond frame. In return, they're more forgiving if you wear a skirt or kilt, have mobility issues, have a rear rack piled high with stuff or loaded with a child seat. They're very bad if you're trying to race, but quite useful for around town riding.
Elkhound
05-27-08, 02:07 PM
How about a bakfeist?
surfimp
05-27-08, 10:56 PM
With that short of distances, you could ride pretty much anything. Trust me, in time, a 2 mile bike ride will shortly feel like nothing at all. After a few months you'll most likely be able to do it almost as fast as driving in the car.
Regarding trailers & etc: General wisdom/recommendation is that children under 1 year old should not ride in a trailer / seat / etc because A) you are supposed to put a helmet on them and B) their neck muscles are not strong enough to support the weight of their head + their helmet until they are 1 year old. So either a trailer or a bike seat would not be "safe" for your new baby till he/she is 1 year old... that said, seems you and your oldest could drop baby at the childcare next door, then go to kindergarten/work together on your bikes and it would all work out about the same in the end... ?
We have two boys, a 14 mo. old and a 3.5 year old. We have a Wike trailer (http://www.wicycle.com) and love it. This past Memorial Day weekend we were totally carfree and racked up over 60 miles towing the trailer, went to the zoo, museums, MyGym, etc. Both boys can comfortably take naps & etc. and prefer it to the car. The older one is really taking a significant interest in his learner bike, too, which is a good thing.
Granted here in Santa Barbara we don't ever have "wintry mix" (I do know what that is, though, and it sucks), but our Wike comes with a nice plastic velcro-on "windshield" that would help keep a lot of rain off the kids. For a 1 mile dash home, it would be fine I think.
HTH, you can do it!
Steve
wednesday
05-28-08, 07:21 AM
Okay, so maybe I will walk the route until at least spring. Then see how baby does with a helmet. BTW the daycare is next door to the school, not next door to my home. The route is a triangle with my house at point A, school/daycare at point B, and office at point C.
One consideration is time. Walking doesn't SEEM like that much longer than biking, but the schedule is kind of tight between when I can drop kids, when I have to be at work, when I can leave work, and when kids must be picked up. There's about 30 minutes on either side meaning if we're running behind it can be a big problem. Also if I want to go to the daycare and nurse baby on my lunch hour, I don't want to waste half my break on just getting there and back.
JeffS
05-28-08, 09:35 AM
Regarding trailers & etc: General wisdom/recommendation is
... worthless
Make your own decision. Plenty of us had their kids on a bike before the arbitrary one year mark.
I personally don't believe an infant is at any more risk on a bike than in a stroller or car - but your comfort level will vary.
m5nardi
05-28-08, 10:21 AM
I bike commuted with very small children years ago and I can tell you that a mile might be too far for a kindergartener to ride unassisted every day. The ride home at the end of the day will especially pose a problem on days when he's tired. I highly recommend a tow bar of some sort for him as a good compromise. Find one that can be easily removed and left at daycare.
I used a child-forward seat that reclined slightly, and a two-child trailer with a rear facing safety seat installed, both well before a year old. Safety laws may differ, however, so I don't advocate anything, I'm just sharing my experience. Honestly though, with a baby I used a hiking backpack with five-point restraints and found it much easier to manage. I had a front baby carrier strap as well, that the restraint from the backpack could be hooked up to, that was only comfortable to bike in until they were around 12-15 pounds max.
wednesday
05-28-08, 10:32 AM
I bike commuted with very small children years ago and I can tell you that a mile might be too far for a kindergartener to ride unassisted every day.
He walks longer distances than that all the time -- will a bike be harder? I thought it would be easier once he's had a little more practice. Although, I had not considered I would have to probably slow my own pace considerably.
Kimmitt
05-28-08, 02:54 PM
My suggestions:
1) Get either a tow bar or a trail-a-bike for your son. There will be days he's worn out and doesn't want to put the effort in to keep up, and kids don't understand what schedules are.
2) I like those new bike baby seats which sit on your handlebars; it always seemed to me that I'd want to have the ability to glance down and see how my kid's doing. For absolute infants, I'd get one of those carriers that straps to my chest or back and leaves my hands free.
3) If there's a thunderstorm or some such, consider calling a cab and mentioning that it needs to be big enough to toss a bike into. A short cab ride is $10-15, and you can budget for an average number of days you need it per month. This will be, of course, much less expensive than using a car for the purposes outlined.
4) Consider getting a nice front basket and/or rack/panniers system. The Wald front baskets and rear folding baskets are inexpensive and quite effective. That will allow you to bring things like diaper bags, school supplies, etc. without undue difficulty. Parents always seem to have a couple bags full of stuff.
5) It is possible with all the distractions that you'll end up falling off the bike once or twice. The biggest thing you absolutely have to remember is not to put your arm out straight -- at least bend your elbow. Your wrist is terrible at taking impacts and takes forever to heal right. :)
Money-wise, you don't end up really saving money until your family has collectively one less car. You can make some cash by calling your auto insurance company and telling them you've changed from commuting by car to commuting by bicycle; this will often get you a nice little discount.
The big thing is to spend a little money and get the right equipment; what you're proposing is very doable with the right stuff and incredibly difficult and time-consuming without it.
m5nardi
05-28-08, 10:51 PM
He walks longer distances than that all the time -- will a bike be harder? I thought it would be easier once he's had a little more practice. Although, I had not considered I would have to probably slow my own pace considerably.
The short answer is yes.
The long answer is that it isn't really about the practice, it's a matter of the average endurance of a five year old child. At times he'll be fine, other days he will be tired, whiny, and difficult after being at school for hours and that's not counting times when he'll be less than perfectly healthy, nursing an injury, or recovering from some excitement that day in class, etc. You just can't bank on his consistent cooperation. The rest of the time the bar will allow you to keep up a nice pace without wearing him out, worth it's weight in gold when you are running late.
Kimmitt's advice is good, however you'll have to think about #4 in advance. Some tow systems make a rear rack almost useless (or even impossible) and keep you from being able to use a rear child seat. A front baby seat may or may not allow you to use a front basket. Mine mounted behind the handlebars but parts of it would've hit a larger front basket. Just a few things to consider, think through your entire plan before you begin making purchases and you'll be much happier in the long run.
surfimp
05-28-08, 11:12 PM
... worthless
Make your own decision. Plenty of us had their kids on a bike before the arbitrary one year mark.
Going against conventional wisdom out of hand is as thoughtless as following it without question... it is what it is, for what it's worth. Presumably we're all adults here and are capable of making up our own minds, no? ;)
Steve
Torrilin
05-29-08, 06:34 AM
He walks longer distances than that all the time -- will a bike be harder? I thought it would be easier once he's had a little more practice. Although, I had not considered I would have to probably slow my own pace considerably.
An adult bike usually has a bunch of gear choices. That means no matter how exhausted an adult is, odds are there's a gear that is low enough that it's easier to bike than walk. A bike for a small child is usually a single gear.
You're the mom. You know your kid. Take him out and see what happens. He will not be scarred for life because he went on walks and bike rides with his mother :D. If he's anything like most of us, the good walks and rides will be some of his favorite memories.
wednesday
05-29-08, 07:27 AM
2) I like those new bike baby seats which sit on your handlebars; it always seemed to me that I'd want to have the ability to glance down and see how my kid's doing. For absolute infants, I'd get one of those carriers that straps to my chest or back and leaves my hands free.
Is that safe? What if I fell off the bike and onto the baby?
3) If there's a thunderstorm or some such, consider calling a cab and mentioning that it needs to be big enough to toss a bike into. A short cab ride is $10-15, and you can budget for an average number of days you need it per month. This will be, of course, much less expensive than using a car for the purposes outlined.
I have never seen a cab in my (small) town. I think there are a couple companies in the phone book. But since we would still have the second car at home, my best bet in bad weather is probably to go home on my own first (it's very close to the office), get my car, and pick the kids up that way.
4) Consider getting a nice front basket and/or rack/panniers system. The Wald front baskets and rear folding baskets are inexpensive and quite effective. That will allow you to bring things like diaper bags, school supplies, etc. without undue difficulty. Parents always seem to have a couple bags full of stuff.
I've been looking at the Xtracycle kit for that purpose. We will definitely have backpacks, lunchbags etc every day.
Money-wise, you don't end up really saving money until your family has collectively one less car. You can make some cash by calling your auto insurance company and telling them you've changed from commuting by car to commuting by bicycle; this will often get you a nice little discount.
We already have a non-commuting discount as I've told them I walk to work. I've calculated that my vehicle costs us approximately $25/month, not including gas. That's taxes, tags, annual inspection, insurance, oil changes, and maintenance. It's a '95 Saturn and nothing has ever broken down on it so repairs are hard to estimate. Might as well keep it for the occasional convenience, you know?
Rosie8
05-30-08, 07:13 AM
You might like to look at the copenhagen girls on bike blog. The site has lots of info and photos of family/kids on bikes. The Europeans use bikes a lot more than we do and have lots of choices for carseats, alternative bikes like cargo bikes, trailers/trail a bike type setups. Look over at the right hand side for subcategories like kids, family. Sounds very doable once you get the right rig.
Elkhound
05-30-08, 08:19 AM
You might also want to go to CleverCycles (www.clevercycles.com (http://www.clevercycles.com)) for suggestions.
Old_Fart
05-30-08, 10:54 AM
What city are you in?
What you end up with could in large part be dictated by what is available a reasonable distance from you. Longer distance mean more freight and may mean finding someone willing and capable of setting up and maintaining the machine. If you are close to Seattle or Portland I know there are lots of choices like Bakfiets or Big Dummies that area available pretty close.
For the kind of use you're talking about, I think the Bakfiets would be perfect. I does need a bigger parking spot than a normal bike, tho. The Bakfiets has room in the box for two small kids and cargo and a rack for panniers or overflow, has a raincover available for winter use, and has a centerstand for stability when loading squirmy kids and groceries. Also, the low cargo box makes the bike easy to handle with weight on it. The front load also means you always have the young-uns in your field of vision.
The Bakfiets is a bit pricier than something like an Electra but when you start adding in the price of a trailer and other accessories to get near the same utility, the price difference shrinks quickly.
Check out dutchbikeseattle.com and clevercycles.com for lots of pics and info on the Bakfiets.
I love my Big Dummy but I don't know if I would like it as much for small children as the load goes on top of the bike rather than inside of a box. Short of the Bakfiets, I like the idea of a trailer for most of the reasons I like the Bakfiets. Low load for stability, enclosed, covers for protection against weather, etc.
There are several quality trailers available like the Wike and the Burley and they break down easily for storage if space is an issue.
Kimmitt
05-30-08, 11:37 AM
I can tell you that the xtracycle kit is truly excellent; I just didn't want to recommend a $400 upgrade off the bat. If you get that, it has child seats you can buy for it. In addition, you can easily tow a bicycle and stick your son on the deck in the back if he gets really tired. The trick for xtra bike towing is either to buy their little towing device thingy (expensive) or use an inner tube to loop around the front handlebars and your seatpost to keep the front wheel stabilized (really cheap).
In terms of falling off the bicycle, I don't think any systems are particularly more or less dangerous. Bicycle seats really aren't capable of providing appropriate restraint for infants under eight months or so, and even up to a year, without a helmet, there's no point. The thing to worry about is the head; everything else heals very quickly, if it gets injured at all.
Some relevant price points:
1) Decent used commuter bike + rack/panniers/tow system + baby seat = $500-600
2) Townie or cruiser xtracycle + baby seat = $900-1000
3) Big Dummy xtracycle + components = $1200-1300
4) Bakfiets = $3000
Personally, I think the two sweet spots are (1) and (2). (3) and (4) are for folks who either are essentially car-free or who have plenty of money to spend and decide to use it on bicycles.
I had one of those '95 Saturns, and I agree, they're excellent little cars. Just make sure you get/got the timing belt replaced at 100,000 miles, and they just kind of keep running indefinitely.
mparker326
05-30-08, 11:40 AM
If you can't accomplish all you want you could compromise.
For example your spouse/significant other could drop off & pick up the infant while you ride the other one to school & then go to work.
You could drop both off with your car and then drive back home and take your bike to work.
You could leave your bike at work and ride to the daycare at lunch with it.
As far as bike choice goes, my wife loves the old 3 speed I bought her. The child seat is on my bike though. I would also prefer a step through for mounting the bike with the kid in the childseat. Regardless of what bike you buy if you are going to mount a child seat on it, make sure there is enough room to pedal without hitting your kids feet.
Oh, and I have an Electra Townie 3 xtracycle. It's really quite nice.
wednesday
06-02-08, 07:17 AM
For example your spouse/significant other could drop off & pick up the infant while you ride the other one to school & then go to work.
His schedule is too unpredictable to rely on that, although I do anticipate he will frequently drop the baby off in the mornings.
You could drop both off with your car and then drive back home and take your bike to work.
Thia is partly a philosophical thing, I want my son to learn that we don't need to hop in the car to go just a mile. I believe there is a time coming, not far off, when people will need to prioritize their fuel usage much more carefully. Might as well get used to it and get the tools in place now. Before bikes and such triple in price.
Thanks for the pictures! Your baby girl is adorable.
wednesday
06-02-08, 07:22 AM
2) Townie or cruiser xtracycle + baby seat = $900-1000
I think this is what we're going to do, but maybe wait until fall to make the purchase. Do bikes typically go on sale in fall? Like an end of season thing?
I had one of those '95 Saturns, and I agree, they're excellent little cars. Just make sure you get/got the timing belt replaced at 100,000 miles, and they just kind of keep running indefinitely.
I'm not sure...I've had it since about 120K miles, it's now at 170K. I used to have a long daily commute but now I drive maybe 50 miles a week max. My only complaint is it leaks oil, I have to add a quart every few weeks. I want to see it pass 200K but at the rate I drive now that may be a long time coming.
Torrilin
06-02-08, 09:39 AM
I think this is what we're going to do, but maybe wait until fall to make the purchase. Do bikes typically go on sale in fall? Like an end of season thing?
Often they will, tho it depends on the manufacturer. Some bike brands work like car brands, with "new models" every year. Others have very few changes to their lineup from year to year. I think Electra is more in the "new models" mode.
Kimmitt
06-11-08, 12:08 PM
I think this is what we're going to do, but maybe wait until fall to make the purchase. Do bikes typically go on sale in fall? Like an end of season thing?
I don't know the vagaries, but I do recall that the sales I went to were all associated with the end of the season in early summer. I think they're disjoint from the car seasons.
However, I'm pretty sure you're better off getting the bike/xtracycle combo from the xtracycle website ($740 + shipping) -- cheaper than getting even an on-sale electra + xtracycle separately ($500 minimum + $400 for the xtracycle). So there's no particular reason to wait.
wednesday
06-19-08, 08:07 AM
I'm pretty sold on the townie xtracycle. Checked with my LBS and they are not an authorized electra delaer but apparently I can order the kit directly form xtracycle, have it shipped to this shop, and they will build it. So, it's $740 + a $150 build fee. I was wondering if an authorized dealer includes the build fee in the $740 so I checked with a different, bigger shop about 30 minutes away that IS an authorized electra dealer. In fact I test-rode the Townie in their shop last year. They are quoting me the exact same price, $740 to order from xtracycle + $150 for them to build it.
So now I am wondering -- is it better to keep my business REALLY local, and have the shop in my town build the bike for me (and presumably help me with any issues/repairs that may arise over time); or is it better to purchase my bike from the shop where they build/maintain Townies every day? The folks in my LBS had never heard of Electra but were pretty much game to make it work for me if I wanted to buy through them.
JeffS
06-19-08, 08:53 AM
The folks in my LBS had never heard of Electra but were pretty much game to make it work for me if I wanted to buy through them.
That's pretty sad if it's true.
That would really turn me off. Still though, I don't see a need to drive an extra hour unless you just really liked that other shop better.
invisiblehand
06-19-08, 10:25 AM
So now I am wondering -- is it better to keep my business REALLY local, and have the shop in my town build the bike for me (and presumably help me with any issues/repairs that may arise over time); or is it better to purchase my bike from the shop where they build/maintain Townies every day? The folks in my LBS had never heard of Electra but were pretty much game to make it work for me if I wanted to buy through them.
Sad ... but it might be the case that this bike is outside their normal customer base.
Particularly if you have little desire to be your own mechanic, it is helpful to develop a good relationship with a local shop. In your case, you would save at least 30 minutes of driving each way for a visit. But I would double check their reputation with local cyclists if you have not done so already.