Road Bike Racing - New freehub, lots of drag

Installed a new freehub on my Zipp 202 rear hub tonight and now there's A LOT of drag when freewheeling - enough so that any pressure on the pedals when freewheeling throws the chain off the cassette and really ****s with the RD.

I've narrowed it down to a bearing problem - when I loosen the end caps, thereby relieving pressure on the bearings, everything is fine.

Anyone know if the bearings just need to be broken in, or am I missing a washer/spacer/shim somewhere?

Are you applying too much preload to the bearings?

It may just need to be run in a bit. Hard to tell how much is A LOT. Many cartridge bearings come packed fairly stiff, but loosen up within 10 or 20 miles.

Installed a new freehub on my Zipp 202 rear hub tonight and now there's A LOT of drag when freewheeling - enough so that any pressure on the pedals when freewheeling throws the chain off the cassette and really ****s with the RD.

I've narrowed it down to a bearing problem - when I loosen the end caps, thereby relieving pressure on the bearings, everything is fine.

Anyone know if the bearings just need to be broken in, or am I missing a washer/spacer/shim somewhere?

Got a picture of the old freehub from the side that faces the bearings?

@jamiewilson: "a lot" = like riding a fixed gear. Seriously.

@NoRacer: I'm at work now but will take pictures of both cassette bodies tonight when I get home. I replaced a 202P freehub body with a 202W freehub body (so that I can use my SRAM Red cassettes).

Unless you are man-handling your preload adjustment, then that would not account for it. I would bet that you are missing a part that is causing the preload to be applied to the inner race, binding the bearing.

Or, just say F it and go to the track with your FG.

sounds like what my 303 did when I forgot to install the spacer between the hub and the back of the freehub.......

Unless you are man-handling your preload adjustment

;)

sounds like what my 303 did when I forgot to install the spacer between the hub and the back of the freehub.......

I thought it was that, too, but I looked everywhere and couldn't find any spacer. It's not on the old freehub, it's not on the axle, and it's not on my workbench (which is immaculately clean).

Also, when I put the old freehub on, everything works fine. That makes me think it might not be the washer.

Unless you are man-handling your preload adjustment

Even finger-tight causes this.

I thought it was that, too, but I looked everywhere and couldn't find any spacer. It's not on the old freehub, it's not on the axle, and it's not on my workbench (which is immaculately clean).

Also, when I put the old freehub on, everything works fine. That makes me think it might not be the washer.

There HAS to be a spacer between the hub bearing and the freehub. Maybe it is stuck in the oil on the old freehub? Zipp does not include a spacer with new freehubs so the old one has to be reused. Look again ...maybe take a little screw driver and see if the spacer is stuck on the old body.

Where on the old freehub would it be stuck? Inside, where the axle inserts, or on the very back pressed up against the part that the pawls are on?

i'm with garysol on this one.

So in this pic, my new freehub is the one on the right. where does the washer go again?

http://www.zipp.com/Portals/0/Support/hubs/202P-202W%20Cassette674.jpg

Where on the old freehub would it be stuck? Inside, where the axle inserts, or on the very back pressed up against the part that the pawls are on?

In the picture below...see the blue bearing seal? Your spacer is probably stuck to it.

http://www.jensonusa.com/product/cs/CS408Z02BLU__CAMP_10SP.jpg

Worse case call Zipp. There tech guys are very very helpful.

Take a look HERE (http://www.zipp.com/portals/0/support/documents/ZIPP_A6_Wheel%20Manual_0306.pdf). This covers all years....

ok, so presumably if my old (202P) freehub still works fine, then the washer must still be attached to the cassette body. Now, as I'm looking at the PDF diagram, I still don't understand where the washer is: inside the cassette body or just stuck to the back of it?

btw, thanks for your help gary

In the picture below...see the blue bearing seal? Your spacer is probably stuck to it.

http://www.jensonusa.com/product/cs/CS408Z02BLU__CAMP_10SP.jpg

ooook, that makes sense. I didn't check for a washer covering the bearing seal. I'll look there tonight when I get home.

I have two wheels that have freehub bodies like the one I attached. They have a rubber seal in the area indicated but no spacer at the bearing.

The one that Gary shows (blue body) doesn't have the same lip.

No rubber seal on my old 202P, but there is a rubber seal on the hub shell that presses against the area indicated in your picture.

Come to think of it, my cassette body doesn't look anything like the one gary posted - both bearings are inside the cassette body, separated by the axle sleeve. I really don't think there's a washer but will take pics and post them tonight.

This is what my (old) cassette body looks like:
http://www.categoryonecycles.com/imageserver/images_big/ZPPCSB4.jpg

The new one looks like this:
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=72619&d=1211982967

I have no idea where the washer would go.

This is what my (old) cassette body looks like:
http://www.categoryonecycles.com/imageserver/images_big/ZPPCSB4.jpg

The new one looks like this:
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=72619&d=1211982967

I have no idea where the washer would go.

There's an extra step in the new body.

There's an extra step in the new body.

What effect does that have? The two bodies are supposed to be interchangeable, I thought.

What effect does that have? The two bodies are supposed to be interchangeable, I thought.

My -guess- is that the old body is 8, 9, 10 speed compatible and the new one, I believe, is for 10 speed only. The extra lip may give you extra length, causing it to push against something and causing the hub to bind.

Also, the old one has cut-outs that line up with the flanges that keep the cogs in place. The new one doesn't have the same cut-outs. I wonder if the lip on the new one may be making contact with the hub body.

I think we need a picture of the hub looking into the ratchet area of the hub.

I'll take lots of pics tonight.

No rubber seal on my old 202P, but there is a rubber seal on the hub shell that presses against the area indicated in your picture.

Duh! I missed this.

That's probably the seal that should start on the freehub body. It's probably glued with grease to the hub shell. Pull it out and place it on the freehub body in the area I indicated, because if you don't, there's no guarentee that it will seat correctly on the freehub body when you blindly push the body back in to seat the pawls. If it doesn't seat it could bunch up and interfere with the freehub body and/or the pawls.

If the seal has a center groove on one side and is flat on the other side, put the flat side against the freehub body (for no particular reason other than it seems to sit flatter this way). Slowly push the freehub body into place in a manner that won't dislodge the seal. You may need to give the freehub body a very slight twist as you push the pawls into their proper position into the ratchet area.

Damn, Just got back in from my ride and I was hoping there would be a outcome when I got home!!

Give me another 5 hours :)

http://imgplace.com/image_bin/4967/71f7f6d0bc7902659f8301929c708940.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/71f7f6d0bc7902659f8301929c708940) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/6939/1a542b3d6024740eff9a78cbceb52146.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/1a542b3d6024740eff9a78cbceb52146) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/6932/a890203ea049311637c59c7b6d4fdec8.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/a890203ea049311637c59c7b6d4fdec8)

So you're saying that red round thing is what I need to remove? It's rubber. Very thin, and very fragile. I've tried prying it off but it stretched without moving at all. I feel like if I use any more force, I'll rip it.

More pics:


New cassette body (CB) is on left:
http://imgplace.com/image_bin/5843/b8a9d1435b30ef4c61bddb07bae90704.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/b8a9d1435b30ef4c61bddb07bae90704) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/3486/05cb776ecaf775d14a182071d5cb58cd.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/05cb776ecaf775d14a182071d5cb58cd) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/9257/086cf79581f492f4ced209e56f8df8f3.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/086cf79581f492f4ced209e56f8df8f3) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/2349/4e019f1a4cc877be1f1687b44e664238.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/4e019f1a4cc877be1f1687b44e664238)

New CB:
http://imgplace.com/image_bin/8644/ffe56a7cf5d210b6f3e788729d5a64ed.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/ffe56a7cf5d210b6f3e788729d5a64ed) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/3370/e69ddcb975dd3939682a3ded483d26fb.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/e69ddcb975dd3939682a3ded483d26fb)

Old CB:
http://imgplace.com/image_bin/6826/3216fbd4a834ab8383138bf216ddda58.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/3216fbd4a834ab8383138bf216ddda58)

Hub shell:

http://imgplace.com/image_bin/588/2a19bede04150031f0401a4185e75d1d.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/2a19bede04150031f0401a4185e75d1d) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/9090/f8f0228debaeda820bde134dd65d7c13.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/f8f0228debaeda820bde134dd65d7c13)

http://imgplace.com/image_bin/4967/71f7f6d0bc7902659f8301929c708940.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/71f7f6d0bc7902659f8301929c708940) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/6939/1a542b3d6024740eff9a78cbceb52146.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/1a542b3d6024740eff9a78cbceb52146) http://imgplace.com/image_bin/6932/a890203ea049311637c59c7b6d4fdec8.JPG.th.jpg (http://imgplace.com/image/view/a890203ea049311637c59c7b6d4fdec8)

So you're saying that red round thing is what I need to remove? It's rubber. Very thin, and very fragile. I've tried prying it off but it stretched without moving at all. I feel like if I use any more force, I'll rip it.

Don't do it, Brian. That's a completely different seal than mine uses (thin black rubber seal; definitely easy to remove/move). Yours looks like it's there to stay.

It's definitely there to stay. Well ****.

Is one CB taller than the other?

Nope, same height. I emailed my guy at Zipp, hopefully he gets back to me. If I can't use my SRAM Red cassette with my Zipps, it's not the end of the world. Plus, the hubs are old. Maybe I'll just lace in some DT Swiss 240s.....

Nope, same height. I emailed my guy at Zipp, hopefully he gets back to me. If I can't use my SRAM Red cassette with my Zipps, it's not the end of the world. Plus, the hubs are old. Maybe I'll just lace in some DT Swiss 240s.....

Whatever it may be, don't forget to post something, here, about it as a "lessons learned". (or, over in the Bike Mechanic forum)

of course

of course

well??????????

Still nothing. I think Denham is on vacation or something. I'll be running a Shimano cassette with the old CB for tomorrow's race.

I just called the directly, they're looking into the issue and will call me back later today. Fingers crossed!

Yeah, if you figure it out, let me know. I can't put my SRAM Red cassette on my Zipps either, with the same hub....

Brian,

You cannot mix a 202W and a 202P these two free hubs are incompatible.

I suggest you return the 202W and we send you 202P in its place. Please call 1-800-472-3972 to arrange for the return.

Regards

Denham











so, in other words, we're SOL UT