Tandem Cycling - New Macchiato

Okay, this has been a LONG work in progress (started November of last year), but we finally picked up our new Macchiato tonight. No, I don't have a ride report yet - the steerer plug is still gluing up and it was nearly dark by the time we got out of the shop.

The frame is a 54 up front, not sure how it works out for the stoker, but it is quite small. Built is with Campy Record. We skipped the FSA cranks and instead got a set of daVinci (anodized black) with Phil Wood BBs. Also, we traded in the FSA bars and went with a set of Dedas to keep it in line with my single. With pedals and no cages, the bike came out to an even 26 lbs. Could do a few things to shave weight here and there, but not sure I want to chase the grams unless I look at a set of high zoot wheels (i.e. rims from Edge Composites). Should be able to post a ride report after this weekend.

By the way, the photos are only so so. We are in between garage doors at the moment.

...not sure how it works out for the stoker, but it is quite small.

We've noticed that on a few other Macchiato frames. I'd be curious to know how long the frame is measured from the center of the front ecceentric bottom bracket to the center of the rear bottom bracket and how that compares to the other Macchiato's owned by members of this list.


We skipped the FSA cranks and instead got a set of daVinci (anodized black) with Phil Wood BBs.

I almost did the black ano crank arms as well, but held off as Debbie had a tendency to ride with her heels 'in' which has created deep impressions in all of her daVinci crank arms. I've yet to come up with a permanent way of preventing her heels from over-rotating, otherwise I'd definitely have our anodized as well. They look very sharp.

Did you go with the chomoly, premium titanium, or proprietary titanium BB's for the front and rear or a mix?

beautiful bike. Looking forward to the ride report. How much do you guys weigh?

A 26 lb tandem has to be a blast to ride. Very nice.

Keep us informed if you build up some wheels with Edge rims. I'm currently building up a front wheel to use on the tandem and my single for TT's only. Using the heavier Edge rim, 68 mm depth with 24 spokes. Will be tubular.

Looks good! Nice understated flame paint job . . . bet it looks good in sunshine!

TandemGeek - I'll measure and post tonight. As for the cranks, my wife rides with the Looks set to zero float and doesn't rotate, so I'm am feeling pretty positive that the black will stay for quite a while. As for the BBs, we went chromoly all around. No other reason than I am trying to convince the wife that I need another set of wheels for my single and that the money saved here could be applied there. :p

merlinextraligh - Team weight is about 230 lbs. Fluctuates up slightly depending on how much time I spend at the gym versus on the bike.

Shayne - Let me know about your experience with the wheel. I would love to hear the feedback. What about the rear? Are they making rims with higher than 28 hole spoke counts?

zonatandem - The crazy thing is that we didn't order the flames. We had inquired about it, but passed ultimately because of cost. Apparently that wasn't communicated (or something) and the bike showed up with it. Needless to say, we got a good deal on the paint because of that. In the sun, I think the flames actually become a bit less noticeable.

Soooooooo........ When is your first Race? :innocent:

Beautiful bike. I bet it turns heads on the road. I am also waiting for the ride report. :)

Soooooooo........ When is your first Race? :innocent:

You sound like my coach. And if I mentioned that idea to the wife, I'd probably get :notamused: from her.

:thumb:Nice looking weld beads....

Shayne - Let me know about your experience with the wheel. I would love to hear the feedback. What about the rear? Are they making rims with higher than 28 hole spoke counts?


Will do, waiting on the rims now. I bought two, I'll build up the other as a rear for my single bike later this summer. For the rear of the tandem I've got a wheel cover to make it a poor mans disc. From what I understand, they'll do whatever hole count you want. Seems it's pretty much all custom order. After asking what our team weighs with bike (315 lbs), they said we could go with 20 spokes, maybe even 18 :eek:. No thanks, I was thinking 24 was to low. They do build up with pretty high tension. I guess they built up a set with the tension around 190, for testing purposes, way more than what a hub should be able to take, then took it to a campus and rode down a bunch of stairs. They say the wheels are holding up just fine. That's something I will not be doing.;)

since you're in pasadena, are you gonna gonna bring it out to the rose bowl ride?

since you're in pasadena, are you gonna gonna bring it out to the rose bowl ride?

I would like to keep the frame in one piece. More importantly, I don't want to explain to my wife why she'd picking gravel out of her skin. Maybe do the Montrose ride. We'll see.

From what I understand, they'll do whatever hole count you want. Seems it's pretty much all custom order. After asking what our team weighs with bike (315 lbs), they said we could go with 20 spokes, maybe even 18.

They told me something similar. Problem is finding a rear tandem hub (145 mm spacing) that supports that low spoke count.

Problem is finding a rear tandem hub (145 mm spacing) that supports that low spoke count.

No problem: you don't 'find one' you have one made. Contact the folks at White Industries (http://www.whiteind.com), Phil Wood (http://www.philwood.com), or Hadley Racing Products [(909) 946-6780] to see what they can offer if you're serious. Frankly, at the cited 230lb combined team weight you can get away with using a lot of non-tandem specific hardware for race-only applications.

Contact the folks at White Industries (http://www.whiteind.com), Phil Wood (http://www.philwood.com), or Hadley Racing Products [(909) 946-6780] to see what they can offer if you're serious.

I tried White Ind previously. They said no. I will try Phil Wood and Hadley Racing. Thanks.

Congratulations. That is one very nice ride. Looking forward to some pictures in the sunlight.

You could run 24 spokes on the 48h W.I. hub

:eek: :thumb:

You could run 24 spokes on the 48h W.I. hub

An interesting thought...

What brand and model of chain are you using?

Sweet ride and 26lbs is a beautiful thing.

Seeing yours and Merlin's new rides make me anxious to get our new frame hung with parts. I'm hopeful to have it completed by Late Sunday or Monday. It won't be 26lbs though!!!!!


KRhea

What brand and model of chain are you using?

Campy Record. I am not looking forward to the cost of replacing the timing chain after it begins to stretch.

The timing chain is just a generic 8 speed chain not Campy so the cost is minimal to replace it. Also on our Macchiato which also has Record 10.....Co-Motion used a KMC 10 speed drive chain. The bike shifted ok with that but I did upgrade to a Campy 10 speed drive chain and it was a huge impovement in the shifting department.
You will love that bike once you get it out on the road!!! The ride quality and handling is excellent....and being light is another added bonus.
Enjoy!!

It's a timing chain... so I must assume you are using the high-end chain for weight savings?

To extract the longest life from your timing chain you might just want to commit yourself to wearing the thing into the ground along with the timing rings. You'll probably get close to 10k miles of use before the chain will be so worn that you'll develop some annoying chain noise and, well, your eccentric will be all the way round to the front of the eccentric shell, but it's a strategy.

To extract the longest life from your timing chain you might just want to commit yourself to wearing the thing into the ground along with the timing rings.

Certainly a strategy worth considering. Also, I figure with team weight and the fact that we are spinners as opposed to mashers, may help prolong the life a bit further.

So, what's that bottom bracket to bottom bracket length?

So, what's that bottom bracket to bottom bracket length?

28.5".

28.5".

Standard length for Co-Motion....

So we got about 30 miles in on the bike today. The wife is trying to sort out saddles right now, so that is dictating things right now.

From the captain's perspective, while not as nimble as my single, the bike is agile and accelerates quickly. Compared to any of our previous tandems, this is the closest to riding like a single that I have experienced. Regarding fit, I am only a few tweaks away from being 100% spot on between my road bike and the tandem. Other than an issue with between the rear derailleur and the 3th gear on the cassette, shifting was a dream especially considering new cables that are still stretching. Shouldn't take much to address that one item. Otherwise, shifting for both the front and rear derailleurs was quick and precise. One of the nicest things is how easily the front derailleur shifted. I remember when we had the Robusta I sometimes had to play around with shifting the rear to get the front to shift. Nothing like that now. The bike tracked well in corners and was stable enough I could ride with no hands comfortably. The one area of concern is that during breaking the Alpha Q fork is exhibiting some visible oscillation by the hub. I will be playing with the toe-in of the brake pads in the hopes of addressing. I am curious to know if anyone else is experiencing this?

My wife agreed that the bike accelerated quickly and felt lighter all around than our Robusta and especially our current Ventana MTB tandem. There was an equal amount of road vibration between the Robusta and the Macchiato, but not so bad that she wants a suspension post. (It should be noted that our Robusta had an aluminum seat post while the Macchiato has a carbon seat post.) Part of the ride today included a fairly long 4-5 percent climb. My wife felt we were moving along at a nice clip compared to any of our previous tandems and that maintaining a cadence of around 95 to 100 on the climb was easier as well. I agree with her on both points and attribute this to some weight savings on the wheels as well as the placebo effect of the new bike.

I have seen comments about heel strike for some people due to the size of the chain stays. This was not an issue for us, though my wife does ride with zero float.

One item that we are going to change is the choice of bottle cages. We had selected to go with Tacx cages all around (two are visible in the new photos), but the limited clearance for the stoker when using a large bottle is forcing a reconsideration of this decision.

Great photo's...that is a super combination of colors, flames and well co-ordinated component package...not to mention a simply outstanding ride. Fabulous!
Let us know what you do to get the fork to settle down...I'm with you on thinking that putting some more toe in on the pads should do the trick...I've have a real sensitive deal with the carbon fork on my cross/touring single... 'Toe in' on those pads have to be absolutely perfect or I have my hands full. I played with a bunch of angles before I finally got it right Good luck.

Bill J.

Let us know what you do to get the fork to settle down...I'm with you on thinking that putting some more toe in on the pads should do the trick.

I just left the shop where I put in an order for four Arundel cages (two Sideloaders and two Dave-Os). Also talked to them about the fork while I was there. They too thought to try the toe-in first and see what happens. Fingers crossed that will settle things down.

The one area of concern is that during breaking the Alpha Q fork is exhibiting some visible oscillation by the hub. I will be playing with the toe-in of the brake pads in the hopes of addressing. I am curious to know if anyone else is experiencing this?

I'm trying to recall just what I experienced with the new Alpha Q and '08 Rolfs and want to say that braking improved as the pads and rim worn-in. All kinds of oils and what not seem to find their way onto new rims and the virgin brake tracks and, when coupled with a fresh set of brake pads that haven't had a chance to fully comform to the rim, don't seem to make for the best braking surface / performance.

Wish I had a better recollection.

The vibration doesn't seem to impair stopping power (though I am considering swapping out pads for a set of SwissStop to see how they perform), it's just not what I want if I am trying to scrub speed late before entry into a corner. Fingers crossed I'll find the fix quickly.

The vibration doesn't seem to impair stopping power

By improved, I meant the oscilations diminished.

Very nice bike!!!

What are you using for a stoker stem?

What are you using for a stoker stem?

FSA OS-115. Currently experimenting with length though. The bike came with a 110 mm. We're trying out a 120 mm today to see if that is preferred.

We didn't take the tandem out today - the last thing my wife wanted to do was get on the bike today after the new saddle she tried yesterday (which didn't work out for her) left some sore sit bones. We'll try it again next weekend.

An observation though. While riding my single this morning, I noticed that under hard braking the carbon fork (a different brand) also oscillated at the hub, though I only saw it but did not feel it. I am riding carbon tubies so a braking comparison is far from apple to apples, but it gives me hope that with some tweaking the issue will be resolved on the tandem.

A ride note that I forgot to include from the maiden voyage yesterday. After we got home from the ride I found out that my wife had been standing every time we accelerated from a stop. Over the course of the ride, this was probably 3 or 4 dozen lights/stop signs. I never once felt her get out of the saddle. The bike remained stable with no sensation of wag or twist.

beautiful bike!

For extra/accessible bottle cages, Minoura sells a handlebar mount. On our tandem pilot/stoker use this (see photo).
Popped out the little plunger in center of bottlecap and inserted plastic tube for no-hands-needed sipping.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

[QUOTE=tandem_dude;6798001]We didn't take the tandem out today - the last thing my wife wanted to do was get on the bike today after the new saddle she tried yesterday (which didn't work out for her) left some sore sit bones. We'll try it again next weekend.

Saddles were a real problem for me with our Macchiato (and the preceding Burley). I split a
double century (captain did 170mi, stokers 90 and 80 miles) with another stoker last fall
and the female stoker put her Terry Ti Butterfly on the bike. It rode extremely comfortably and
at the time was first saddle to go 90mi with little discomfort but she took it with her. Previously on the Burley I had
rummaged through two 30" cubed boxes full of takeoff saddles at the tandem dealers and tried
8 different saddles none of which were comfortable. A Liberator off one of my singletons was ok but not for rides
above about 60mi. I ordered 4 different male version Terry Liberator/Fly variants 4(I am a long time Liberator fan) and none worked.
Finally I remembered that the comfy saddle was the female version and bought one gel & one non gel from Nashbar and the problem was
finally solved. Have done two weekend rides century out Sat, century back on Sunday with
no problems. Not recommending Terry per se just indicating that for me it took about a
dozen saddle change outs and trials to find the right saddle.

The stock Co-Motion saddles never made it out for a single ride for either of us. While I knew what worked for me (after only trying about half a dozen on my single), the wife is still trying to sort as the model she has used for years (and is currently on the MTB tandem) is no longer made. The challenge for her is that she finds that most women's saddles are too wide and push her too far forward on the nose. We have several on order to try, so fingers crossed.

sch, are you female? I can't recall. The saddle comfort issue is a common female rider problem but I wanted to keep my head calculator calibrated to potential male seat problems :). Also, it gives me seats to try for my wife. Although I think she already tried the Liberator, worth a second shot though. Anything she wants to solve a saddle comfort issue is ok with me.

sch is male. ref pix at http://picasaweb.google.com/sch1943/Macchiato

Suggestion: When you find a saddle you REALLY like . . . buy a second one!
Seems these saddle outfits change models/styles every couple years.
Stoker Kay has tried a couple Terrys but found them not to her liking.
She's been riding a Serfas Cosmos (15,000+ miles) with good results (yes, have a second one in the parts box) although she had some complaints today but she had just switched to some other riding shorts.
Like saddles, some shorts work better on shorter/longer rides than others.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem