Classic & Vintage - "What's It Worth?": Bike Value For Newcomers

To all new members - please read:

Those of you who have asked about vintage bike value here might have been greeted by some rather surprising, and perhaps - at first glance - trite and perhaps rude replies. For this reason, I have written the following guide to explain why value postings are shunned in our community.

Before anything else though - if you want to get an idea of value of your bicycle or components and do not care to read any more of this discussion, please visit:

eBay.com (search "completed auctions"),
or
Your local Craigslist.org "bikes" section.

Now that that's over with...read along:

Unlike the popular American idea of collectibles as being potential gold mines - as popularized by shows such as the Antiques Roadshow, and yes, eBay as well - value isn't everything, and in the case of our vintage two-wheeled steeds, value is the cost we must pay to acquire something that has a very different meaning to us then the dollar bills it took to purchase it.

We're not looking to be the one fellow with the most expensive vintage bike, and we do not fawn over how much we squandered to build our fancy steed (if anything, we'll be discussing our thriftiness). For us, vintage bikes are their timeless beauty, craftsmanship, the pleasure of riding them - and the former two if the machine has been relegated to wall-art. For this reason, we simply find it out of the spirit for a relatively new member to come here requesting the value of their machine for purposes of unearthing a hidden gold-mine that one can retire off of.

That is not what our bicycles are about, even though pop-culture has conditioned people into believing that this very surface perception of collectibles is the de-facto norm. That is not so, particularly with the collectors here at C&V. Value is not the reason we are part of this community.

This said, please do not be surprised if your direct request for value here on this forum is met with chants of "$3.50 or whatever the market will bear." We are basically stating that the finer points of the bicycle itself - not its value - is our concern, and that the market - i.e., eBay or your local Craigslist - is where you will find value. With rational, thoughtful (as opposed to valuing, say, a low-end Peugeot based on a completely unrelated, desirable Peugeot) eBay searches, you should be able to determine a very good approximation of the value of your machine. Please keep the condition of the bike in mind when doing your comparisons.

A thought about what might be valuable and what isn't:

Although there is always the possibility that one might stumble upon a gem of an older vintage lightweight roadbike, a beautifully kept, all original ballooner; or a genuine early 3-speed (more on that below), a number of "vintage-looking" bicycles out there are not relatively valuable. Amongst the most common of these were made in large numbers and sold to the masses, examples being Columbia, Huffy (with a very few exceptions), Murray, Kent, and virtually all department store names. None of these machines are particularly valuable from a standpoint of collectible desirability.

That said, you might be one of the lucky ones who has found a beautiful Schwinn Paramount, Colnago or other brand of desirable machine. These bikes do have a higher value, and by virtue of that, it is easy to find records of recent sales (and also auctions that failed to sell) on eBay, which should be good guides to value.

One last thought:

Do not rely on your local bike shop to give you an accurate idea of value. Most (not all) bike shops are trained to have knowledge about the new bikes they wish to sell you, and salesmen - or even the owner - are very rarely historians on the subject. Same reason that you don't go to a Ford dealership to find out how much your '56 Crown Victoria is worth.

For that reason, be most wary of any appraisal that indicates that your machine is completely and utterly worthless ("buy a new bike!"), or that it is worth an extremely large sum of money (an happy customer is a good potential new-bike buyer). Either extreme is unlikely for the very fact that it is an extreme. Always make it a point to double-check any such appraisal with a search of similar prices online. Remember, one can throw a random three-digit value in the air with ease - checking value against actual sales takes time.

Now that the lecture ;) is over - start posting and enjoy the beauty of vintage pedal power.

-Kurt

All this said, please do not be surprised if your direct request for value here on this forum is met with chants of "$3.50 or whatever the market will bear." We are basically stating that the finer points of the bicycle itself - not its value - is our concern, and that the market - i.e., eBay or your local Craigslist - is where you will find value.

-Kurt

That, and we're hoping to buy whatever you found for $3.50. :p

Thanks

And add: even the most exotic, collectible and rare bikes and components fetch a pittance in the market, compared with comparable examples from other areas of collecting. Plus, the emphasis here is on reuse, rejuvenation, ride-that-thing, for the most part, and not on "wall art" collection.

Anyone at the Ford dealership should be going ape-***** if they saw a '57 Crown Vic, they stopped making them in '56.

:p

An' besides, while my memory of whether I zipped my fly the last time it was used might be a "tad" sketchy, I do believe I remember the Crown Victoria model was made in '55 and '56, but not offered in the '57 Ford lineup.

Otherwise not a bad rant; grammatically good and well composed.
al, now I'd better check my fly, f

Anyone at the Ford dealership should be going ape-***** if they saw a '57 Crown Vic, they stopped making them in '56.

:p

Damn!
Beat me to it while I was composing.
Back to forgetting again.
alf

I think a quick note should be added that with extremely rare exceptions... unless someone paid very good money for a bike in the past, and took very good care of it, then it proably isn't worth much today.

I can't think of any bike that someone one could have ridden in a middle class neighborhood without gathering a crowd of all the neighborhood cyclists and being worth anything today... and even some that drew the oohs and aahs are pretty worthless... I remember drooling over a friends Peugeot... and my guess is that if I were to go back in time I would discover it was a U08. :)

I see I'm not the only car nut in this group.

Kurt,

Most of the posters you are trying to reach with this info are going to post their question without searching or reading anything. If they do happen upon your thread they will only skim it because it is too verbose. IMO it seems like a rant instead of a useful guide.

I happen to disagree with some of what you say, though. For example, your notion "it is advisable to throw out any ideas about emotional and sentimental value as being a basis of higher value" is bad advice in my opinion. I own a number of items I simply will not sell at auction because I know that likely no one else will place as high a value on them as I do. (I might, however, give them away for free to someone who seems to appreciate their value despite not having the wherewithal to buy.) In a free market, prices are not determined solely by what the buyer will pay, but by what the buyer and seller will agree to exchange. Prices and values are therefore not the same thing.

On the other hand, "start posting and enjoy the beauty of vintage pedal power" is pretty good advice, and I'll second that.

I hesitate to say this, but here goes...

From my admitted noob point of view, I have noticed a bit of "bullying" (not sure if that's the right word) around this forum at times. Speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with someone who wants to know something, and therefore comes to a place where he assumes he's going to get an informed opinion. Actually, I feel kinda flattered when someone asks my opinion. :)

I know the feeling of wanting to ask something, but feeling a bit of apprehension because of the sarcasm that may come as a result of a question that seems stupid to someone more well-versed, or experienced than I am.

Which, BTW, is the main reason I no longer frequent the Road Forums......just too much irritability, and haughtiness/snobbishness by some folks over there who just happened to have acquired more knowledge along the way, and just can't resist sniping at us lesser mortals. :rolleyes:

((Not intended to offend anyone - YMMV))

John

"IMO it seems like a rant instead of a useful guide." QUOTE.


Good morning, Bike Forums C&V.

We have experienced a great many calls of late.

Your opinion matters to us in an oh so important way, so please hold.

We will pickup the 'phone and speak with you - oh, it may take a couple of daze, but

might just call you back at OUR convenience.

Always remember, "Your call is important to us!"


Consider the above, a "rant".

(in my HUMBLE opinion)


Regards,
J T


PS. When a new poster does not read/comprehend a "Sticky", well, as the olde saying goes . . .

"You can lead a horse to water . . .

People come up with old bikes at yard sales, thrifts, from the back of the garage, etc. and come here or perhaps other forums asking what their finds are worth--before doing any fair amount of research themselves. It is not uncommon. I've seen plenty of posts asking value and listing a brand but not the model name (Granted, Peugeots are mostly nameless.) The majority of those requests have minimal information about what would have influence on value like model, condition and components. Not many of those requests have photos.

So, what kind of repsonse is expected from requests such as those? Depending on the quality of the bike (when new) the amount of comments on the thread increases, but there are usually not many comments about value. In the end the garbage-in/garbage-out rule applies. Many of those requests are by (BF newbie) unknowledgable profiteers looking for a quick flip, or by (BF newbie) people who are trying to validate their acquisition cost with the knowledge found here, so $3.50 is a fair answer considering the circumstances.

Personally, I look at most of those posts to see if it is (or was) a nice bike, but rarely comment. Much more often than not, peering into those threads is a waste of my time. [EDIT: I do make the choice to look at the threads though, so I know what I'm likely to encounter when looking at them.]

Kurt, you may want to add a comment about location and markets. Larger markets, and those with multiple college campuses especially, can influence prices substantially. Buyers in those markets paying some higher prices still think they are getting value for older used bikes in good condtition compared to new rides in LBS's or x-mart junk-o-ramas.

I guess I just don't get the anger at all these looking-for-value posts. It's not as though any of us is being forced to read them or respond. I don't assume that everyone wondering about value is looking to make a killing - pretty often it seems they have a bike that came to them from who knows where; they really have no idea what it's worth but they know they don't want to keep it, and they don't want to give it away if it's worth several hundred dollars. So they do what anyone would do, which is surf the web, and they end up here. I personally don't see any reason to clobber them for that. Now, if a single individual posts here repeatedly that's a different scenario, but I don't have the sense that's what is happening.

At a minimum, I think the last paragraph should be re-worked. As it stands it seems to be suggesting that bike shops can't help you; we're the ones with the knowledge but we aren't willing to share it.

"It's not as though any of us is being forced to read them or respond." QUOTE.


I agree, but the terms "clutter", and "noise", do raise their heads.


Regards,
J T

Perhaps what we need is a simple price list. Something like:

For used bicycles, the following prices are what your vintage bicycle is probably worth based on brand:

Peugeot: $3 - $3,000
Schwinn: $3 - $3,000
Raleigh: $3 - $3,000

If you want more precise pricing, please provide as many details as possible, and preferably detailed photos.

:D

I don't understand why the people in the CV forum aren't more flattered at the request for their opinions on bike values. You can go to ebay and cl for values; but they could be less accurate. A guy like me might spend several hundred dollars for a worthless bike that is identical to the one he learned to ride on.

If you don't want to participate in a "what's it worth" thread; then don't. Could it be any simpler? I can understand annoyance at op's with no pics and vague requests; but they are probably newbies. I don't understand the rude and arrogant comments. If it was a conversation; it could be excused (occasionally) as not thinking before you speak. But a composed and typed comment that is rude and demeaning, points to a character flaw and "lack of raisin' " as we say down here.

What about a "WHAT'S IT WORTH?" forum?? I'm not a "computer" guy and if that's asking for the moon; I apologize..........

my two cents............

I enjoy reading whats its worth threads. Its cool to see a newbie enthusiam grow as he learns about the bikes history etc, and its future plans. If nobody posts there is nothing to read and learn about the idiosincritese of all these bikes and the stories behind them. I just dont want to see advise on the value of bikes becoming so clinical e.g. go check the chart. This thread is cool too. See ya

Dear fellows,

Rather then respond to all the replies since, allow me to say the following:

Many of you have made good points that I intend to add to the post, in addition, good suggestions as to existing portions of this text that are best either edited or left out. Further suggestions are welcome.

Mind you, this was written rather late (or early in the morning, rather), and may not be entirely indicative of what I intended to convey. It likely does sound like a rant, for I was stimulated to write it at a time when I was ranting 'inside.'

Allow me to stress that the point of my original post here was specifically intended to prevent new members from finding themselves under the wrath of irritated C&V'ers. Personally, I believe that any new member should not be subject to poor treatment without prior explanation as to why the forum members dislike threads of the nature of value.

Point blank, to jump upon someone who has never been here before, and does not understand the reasoning behind the curmudgeon attitude towards these posts is uncalled for. I am not saying that blatant value-fishing should be allowed to take over this forum, but it should be properly explained beforehand why one should not do so.

-Kurt

Point blank, to jump upon someone who has never been here before, and does not understand the reasoning behind the curmudgeon attitude towards these posts is uncalled for. I am not saying that blatant value-fishing should be allowed to take over this forum, but it should be properly explained beforehand why one should not do so.

-Kurt


Well said!

Just edited the original post. Took some out, added some in. Let me know what you think.

-Kurt

I understand where Kurt is coming from but in some ways I have to disagree. If you are talking about some fairly common bikes like Peugeot UO8's or Schwinn Varsity's then an eBay search of completed auctions will probably pay off. But there were probably a few hundred different brands during the bike boom period and the odds are good that you could search completed auctions for several months and not find even one similar to the one you just found in grandpa's shed or picked up at the garage sale for $5. Not only that, but most newbies won't know enough about the bike to do an adequate search. Seemingly insignificant (to the newbie) differences in model names, assuming the model is even known, could be the difference between gaspipe, Reynolds main tubes or a full on db cromo frame. There are so many variables I don't see how someone new to C&V could make any sense out of it. It took me several years to reach a point where I kind of know what's what and I threw away a really nice bike in the process. That said, I would probably still be reluctant to offer specific prices as there are so many variables but would usually be happy to give the poster a ballpark range to work with if I think I know what it should be.

I don't like putting my moderator hat on in here, but it appears we have reached a point where it is needed. I have taken a fine toothed comb to this thread. Let's keep the discussion about the topic, that being the request for the value of a bicycle. I think that is all that needs to be said.

I don't like putting my moderator hat on in here, but it appears we have reached a point where it is needed. I have taken a fine toothed comb to this thread. Let's keep the discussion about the topic, that being the request for the value of a bicycle. I think that is all that needs to be said.

As a moderator, your not worth a $3.50 bicycle. I hope that was " on topic "!

Incidentally, I revised the section about local bike shops.

Constructive criticism + suggestions welcome.

-Kurt

As a moderator, your not worth a $3.50 bicycle. I hope that was " on topic "!

i don't know if i can handle another of your "spellings" of you're or your "use" of quotation marks

I've been on the road for a couple of days, and am just catching up. Since I'm a curmudgeon, I feel the need to chime in...

I'm really fed up with the 'what's it worth' and 'look at this cool Varsity/UO8/Grand Prix...What can I sell it for?' threads.

Yes, we were all newbies at a point, but still... when 10 million of a model were made, it's not rare or particularly valuable, beyond being able to ride it, which is why most of us are here.

Bikes are only worth what someone will give you for it. I've own bikes that are only 'worth ' a few hundred bucks, and wouldn't sell them for a thousand. I've owned thousand dollar bikes that I would take a loss on to get rid of, because they don't suit me.

I've talked with other forum members, most of whom I've never met face to face, and the sentiment is the same. Many valuable members are driven away just because of the drivel.

I think that if we collectively just choose to ignore the 'value of' threads, the forum will improve.

PS--I've PM'ed both Cudas (Kurt & Jon) on other topics, and consider them both to be trustworthy. If an individual has a particular beef with someone, take it up in person, unless that person is using his reputation to rip someone off. There's nothing wrong with buying something for $10 and selling it for $100. Because someone has the knowledge to recognize value doesn't make them a 'bad person'.

Hope this wasn't too long or unreadable, I'm still decompressing after a 32 hour drive.

John, aka OFG and zmud.

i don't know if i can handle another of your "spellings" of you're or your "use" of quotation marks

You win, I'm gone.

You win, I'm gone.
Gee, after your deleted post, that's probably a good thing.

lol my post was pruned.

Hello everyone.

A lot of cleaning up was done on this thread and I'd appreciate it if it was kept clean.

Please keep this civil and somewhat on topic. Please remember that everyone has an opinion and although you may or may not agree with it, let's keep things into perspective and try to stay respectful.

Thank you

Siu Blue Wind
Forum Moderator

[and Cuda2k Forum Moderator]

My $.02

Thank you, Siu, and thank you, Jon.

Well, where did we leave off? I lost track :eek: ;)

-Kurt

please no more stickies in c&v. 1/2 the forum is already clogged with stickies. maybe integrate this into an existing sticky?

...

Hey, while you're at it, why don't you clean up the 'I Got RObbed' thread too. It's like watching Fox news in there. WHen I read it, I couldn't help grabbing for the Remote to change back to the Old Bicycle Channnel.

I'll look into it. But could we stay on topic now? Or has everything that needs to be said here already been said?

So should I restore my 57 crown vic, craigs list it or part it out? it sounds like it might be kind of rare.

Or has everything that needs to be said here already been said?

I wouldn't say that - there still remains the need for a universally accepted guide that explains the C&V forum's position, in regards to "value" threads. It need not have to be part of the discussion as to whether certain members of the forum here wish the separation of such threads or not - it should serve only as a polite and informative explanation as to why it is not generally considered good etiquette to ask about value (as I have outlined a few times earlier).

As it is now, we have the draft that I originally wrote, and have since modified about five or six times with suggestions from the members, plus my own re-readings of it. Yet, it seems as if there is still some debate as to whether it is diplomatic enough to be a suitable guide.

That said, If all has calmed down here in this thread, I sense that there remains room to improve this guide, and I would appreciate feedback towards that improvement.

This sound all right with you, Cuda?

-Kurt

I agree that improvement is a good thing.

I really don't think anyone here begrudges helping out someone looking to buy a vintage bike. In a lot of instances, I think many of us are amenable to help someone avoid being taken if they're trying to help Uncle Ernie's sell his old Raleigh.

That said, even the most helpful cyclist to ever grace the web, the venerable Sheldon Brown, had two rules. 1. Don't ask me the age of your bike, and 2. Don't ask me what your bike is worth. It certainly wasn't because he was a snob, or because he didn't want to be helpful, but I suspect rather because it takes a fair amount of fact-finding to get a rough idea, but even then, there's sometimes no accounting for what happens in the marketplace. Answering certain people can be a bit hazardous, because they might hold it against someone if their 1965 PX-10 only sells for $275 due to them listing it with only one blurry picture, when the "expert" on the internet said it should be worth at least $400.

I definitely identify with where Kurt is coming from, but I think the better warning to give is that there are so many variables involved, that coming up with a precise figure is quite often impossible, and many here recognize this, and don't want to get caught up in what could turn out to be a "fool's errand".

Also, give us some reason to like you, and we'll be more inclined to help you out. :)


I don't understand why the people in the CV forum aren't more flattered at the request for their opinions on bike values. You can go to ebay and cl for values; but they could be less accurate. A guy like me might spend several hundred dollars for a worthless bike that is identical to the one he learned to ride on.

If you don't want to participate in a "what's it worth" thread; then don't. Could it be any simpler? I can understand annoyance at op's with no pics and vague requests; but they are probably newbies. I don't understand the rude and arrogant comments. If it was a conversation; it could be excused (occasionally) as not thinking before you speak. But a composed and typed comment that is rude and demeaning, points to a character flaw and "lack of raisin' " as we say down here.

What about a "WHAT'S IT WORTH?" forum?? I'm not a "computer" guy and if that's asking for the moon; I apologize..........

my two cents............

...but I suspect rather because it takes a fair amount of fact-finding to get a rough idea, but even then, there's sometimes no accounting for what happens in the marketplace. Answering certain people can be a bit hazardous, because they might hold it against someone if their 1965 PX-10 only sells for $275 due to them listing it with only one blurry picture, when the "expert" on the internet said it should be worth at least $400.

Very good point - couldn't have said it better. Mind if I incorporate this in the next revision?

-Kurt

A. People who pop in for a quickie aren't going to read an essay-manifesto about the whys and wherefores of bike valuation, the proper attitude to have toward C&V, etc. -- especially those who don't bring pictures or even care to find out (by lurking a bit) what sorts of information might be important.

B. "What's it Worth" threads are like troll postings -- if people rise to the bait (including finger-wagging remonstrance, no matter how gentle or constructive) it just encourages similar activity. Better to give a simple answer, as unsatisfying as that may be to both poster and respondent, or simply ignore. The latter is what I think I do.

C. The real question is how to distinguish the people with real bike addiction potential from the hoi polloi, and stimulate the former while ignoring the latter.

D. Please, no more stickies.

Thank you, Siu, and thank you, Jon.

Well, where did we leave off? I lost track :eek: ;)

-KurtWhat the hell is Siu doing in here? This isn't Foo! (don't know which smilie to use for surprised and confused, not meant to mean.)

The value threads do bother me, that is why I don't read them. The ones I do look over, I do like the $3.50 answer. Maybe a C&V scale could be used. 1 being a Huffy and a 10 being a ... (insert dream bike here.)


asker: What is my mint condition 55cm red Fuji Sagres worth?
C&Ver: That bike is about a 3.4 on the C&V scale. It is a good quality mid-level bike from that era. Decent components, good double butted Cro-Mo frame.

asker: Ok, but what's it worth?
C&Ver: It is a 3.4 on the C&V scale.

asker: What should I list for on Craigslist?
C&Ver: It is a 3.4 on the C&V scale.

Ok, just me being silly.

it's surprising to me the topic of bicycle value would cause people to lose their composure and be unfriendly to one another. who would've thunk it?

Time to tell XE.com to update their currency conversion tables for the new CVSV (Classic & Vintage Scale-Based Value) monetary denomination ;)

-Kurt

What about those of us who have a bike they don't need, have done research to find out what their bike is worth, and can't find anything?
What should we do?
Price high and hope for the best?

I mean, no disrespect, I can see how it can get irritating, but what else should we do? We search on the internet for a spot where we can get good information from knowledgeable people, and we find it (BF) and then we get turned away and scoffed at for asking questions.
What other option is there?

Personally, I'm not going to get turned away, I love old bikes too much! I made one of those threads myself too!

I'm just saying that maybe this is a little harsh.

What about those of us who have a bike they don't need, have done research to find out what their bike is worth, and can't find anything?
What should we do?
Price high and hope for the best?

I mean, no disrespect, I can see how it can get irritating, but what else should we do? We search on the internet for a spot where we can get good information from knowledgeable people, and we find it (BF) and then we get turned away and scoffed at for asking questions.
What other option is there?

Personally, I'm not going to get turned away, I love old bikes too much! I made one of those threads myself too!

I'm just saying that maybe this is a little harsh.

Post it on Ebay and let the market decide. Generally, if you put it on Ebay with decent pictures the bike is going to sell for what it is worth.

Oh, for the record, no more C&V stickies will be added. We have more than enough at the moment. I'm going to talk to Lotek and see how best to try to combine a couple we have to try to slim it some. Off for my Saturday ride.

What about those of us who have a bike they don't need, have done research to find out what their bike is worth, and can't find anything?
What should we do?
Price high and hope for the best?

I mean, no disrespect, I can see how it can get irritating, but what else should we do? We search on the internet for a spot where we can get good information from knowledgeable people, and we find it (BF) and then we get turned away and scoffed at for asking questions.
What other option is there?

Personally, I'm not going to get turned away, I love old bikes too much! I made one of those threads myself too!

I'm just saying that maybe this is a little harsh.

The very act of composing a detailed well-documented inquiry post instantly distinguishes you from what Charles Wahl upthread accurately characterizes as 'trolls'.

It might look like this...

'I came by this bike...'

'But because..........It's now time to sell'

'Because my garage is already too full with these other bikes I love even more....pix...pix....pix.'

'It's in perfect shape....pix...except for...pix...and...more pix'

'I found these past sales on eBay...pix...links...pix....prices.'

'And I found these original catalog pages by googling bikeforums.net. here are the links...'

'Anyway--I would guess I could expect about....on ebay. Any opinions?'

'But I prefer to sell on CL here in ...home town....Any opinions on value?'

'Many thanks!'