Mountain Biking - Differences between HardTail, BMX...???

Folks,

I'm relatively new to this sport, though I drove a Mountain bike 10 yrs ago. I'm not really acquainted with all this mambo-jumbo talk:

What's a:

BMX
HardTail
and all those names I hear and read about, any major differences among them?

To me they're all MOUNTAIN bikes.....what gives?
Excuse my ignorance on this really

Corsaire

Well, a BMX isnt a mountain bike, there the little bikes that can be used for all those crazy tricks and stunts you may have seen.

The two main types of mountain bikes are hardtail and full suspension. The difference is a hardtail has no suspension for the back wheel, just the regular triangular shape that connects the rear wheel to the bike. Full sussers on the other hand do have suspension for the back wheel but these bikes cost more if you want decent components.

Matt

Generally, and I mean very generally since there are exceptions and cross-overs:

BMX's have smaller frames, and typically have 20 inch tires, no gearing, taller bars, and a specific type of bottom bracket. There are 24 inch tire BMX too (typically called "cruisers" in Old School talk). BMX typically don't use suspension -- although a few early ones in the 1970's, called "monoshocks", did have suspension.

Mountain bikes typically have 26 inch tires (although there are ones that take 24 to 29 inch), and typically have gearing. They may, or may not have suspension. All off-road MTB's today have at least front suspension. Hybrids, and comfort bikes (meant for road riding) may have a rigid fork or front suspension.

There are crossovers. Some mountain bikes -- like the hardtail, dirtjumpers that are really popular now -- are overgrown BMX's. Many even have singlespeeds (no gearing), and horizontal rear dropouts with chain tensioners like BMX's, and some will even accept BMX bottom brackets and cranks. To throw in another exception, many MTB trials bikes run rigid forks.

Are you confused yet? I am!


**Addendum: The history of BMX (Bicycle Motocross) developed in a way not dissimilar to mountain biking. During the early 1970's, kids in California started to convert standard banana seat bikes and raced them on dirt tracks emulating motocross. This coincided with the motorcycle boom of the 60's and 70's in the United States. (Watch the beginning of Bruce Brown's 70's documentary classic on motorcycles, "On Any Sunday".)

Many established bike companies, like Schwinn, jumped on the popularity and started manufacturing specialized bikes which we have come to know as BMX. More interesting was the huge number of independent manufacturers which popped up to design and create special BMX bicycles; each claiming superiority. Sound familiar? Kinda like MTB today.

A few companies that started in BMX crossed over to the MTB industry including: GT, Mongoose, Diamondback, and Haro; although I believe all of them were sold to corporate interests.

Several legendary BMX racers also became well known in MTB circles including Tinker Juarez, and Toby Henderson.

Isn't the new XTR and Dura-Ace BBs based on the old BMX BB?

Isn't the new XTR and Dura-Ace BBs based on the old BMX BB?

If you have any links to information, I'd be interested.

I recall, back in the day, the larger BMX brackets were known as "American bottom brackets", and mountain bike/road bikes were known as "European bottom brackets".

The BMX bb's were (is? -- I'm old school) more modular. They also accepted one piece cranks which were popular back then. The BMX bb's were more friendly for do-it-yourselfers since you didn't need special tools. However, they did have a tendency to come loose easily and you could easily crush the bearings if you overtightened them.

Isn't the new XTR and Dura-Ace BBs based on the old BMX BB?

No it basiccally a copy of the older Bullseye crank and b.b

If you have any links to information, I'd be interested.

I recall, back in the day, the larger BMX brackets were known as "American bottom brackets", and mountain bike/road bikes were known as "European bottom brackets".

The BMX bb's were (is? -- I'm old school) more modular. They also accepted one piece cranks which were popular back then. The BMX bb's were more friendly for do-it-yourselfers since you didn't need special tools. However, they did have a tendency to come loose easily and you could easily crush the bearings if you overtightened them.


This is still true. Go to albes.com and see, the only reason I know this is because I just ordered a bunch of parts for my son for Christmas. They do have 3 piece cranksets now for the big American BB's, and the American BB's seem to be the size of choice. It's crazy how much different the BMX kids are to us Mtn bikers, weight means nothing to them, they want strength even if their bikes end up weighing 40 lb's heheh.

This is still true. Go to albes.com and see, the only reason I know this is because I just ordered a bunch of parts for my son for Christmas. They do have 3 piece cranksets now for the big American BB's, and the American BB's seem to be the size of choice. It's crazy how much different the BMX kids are to us Mtn bikers, weight means nothing to them, they want strength even if their bikes end up weighing 40 lb's heheh.

Actually, the attitude has changed. In the 80's, during the BMX boom, the target weight was 25 lbs or less. Any more and your bike was considered a heffer and not race worthy.

They did have 3-piece cranks back in the day too. Red Line Flight Cranks were considered top of the line although I went with lighter 3 piece aluminum Takagi.

Today's kids are doing amazing (or is that insane?) things on their bikes. They're doing skateparks, street stunts, and suicidal jumps...they need a 40 lbs bike!

They scare me to death. My son and I have built several stunts in the woods beside my house and all the scuzzy little BMXer's are over there all the time. I talked my son into doing a few XC mtn bike races last fall, and we built a nice light XC race bike for him to race on. I could tell from the start that he didn't like the bike all that much, he was always complaining about the bb being to low, the bars causing him to stretch too far, seat too high, etc. I had a Cove Stiffe FR frame and built it up for him just the other day. He absolutely loves the thing! It weighs a ton, looks like a big goofy BMX bike, and has the craziest geometry you could imagine. He flies on the thing too, he even takes it on trails alone sometimes. So, as someone said above, some of the newer hardtail huck bikes are kind of crossing over the lines that used to seperate BMX from Mountain.

I have not ridden a BMX for 12~13yrs..

All this reading makes me want to buy a BMX.... I saw a new FreeAgent BMX on display in one of the LBS here...

Never expected the quality and the coolness factor would match the Specialized S-works MTB, which was hanged next to it. :D

All off-road MTB's today have at least front suspension.


how dare you!

i think what you mean is MOST off-road MTBs have at least front suspension.

suspension is for wimps!

or those who cant afford it :-)

Corsaire -

To answer your original question:

-BMX is short for "Bicycle Motocross", usually the bikes have either 16, 20, or even 24" wheels. BMX can be divided into the dirt race type riding and "vert", or park riding. Urban falls into this category too, Urban is pretty much a bunch of thugs riding around town jumping off things and scraping the paint off of stair rails. There's also freestyle, and this is the kid's urban style of trials, very impressive to see.

-Hardtail is a mountain bike with a rigid rear, it's a hardtail regardless of having a suspension or rigid fork. So far as I know all BMX bikes are rigid, but I have seen a few attempts to make suspension forks for BMX.

-Full suspension, or dual suspension means a mountain bike with both a suspension fork and some kind of rear suspension. There are a jillion different rear suspension designs, and the length of travel, head angle, and a few other geomtery differences will make a bike better for either cross country, downhill, or "hucking", which is a crossover from BMX bikes.

how dare you!

i think what you mean is MOST off-road MTBs have at least front suspension.

suspension is for wimps!


Okay, "Most" off-road MTB's have at least front suspension.

As for suspension being for wimps, perhaps those who don't take their bikes anywhere, other than the sidewalk outside their house, dont really need it! :p

I'm planning to use the Bike for some trails, riding on the snow, but nothing technical, hard (steep uphills or wild descents, etc) or stunty, so what should I go for:

A Full Suspension or a Hard Tail ?????

(on a Hardtail I could always put a RockShox seat post)
I have a kind of bad lower back.

My budget is $ 800.00 tops, maybe 1,000 IF I like the bike.

Please advise,
Corsaire

I'm planning to use the Bike for some trails, riding on the snow, but nothing technical, hard (steep uphills or wild descents, etc) or stunty, so what should I go for:

A Full Suspension or a Hard Tail ?????

(on a Hardtail I could always put a RockShox seat post)
I have a kind of bad lower back.

My budget is $ 800.00 tops, maybe 1,000 IF I like the bike.

Please advise,
Corsaire

I have a bad back too, and spend alot of time on my old HT. A suspension seatpost would be even better, but proper riding technique is best. White Brothers makes a real sweet air suspension seatpost. For your kind of riding and budget you could end up with a sweet HT. Both HT's and duallies have their place but for the money you are going to spend I would buy a HT. You would end up with better parts specs and a more easily maintained bike...

I'm planning to use the Bike for some trails, riding on the snow, but nothing technical, hard (steep uphills or wild descents, etc) or stunty, so what should I go for:

A Full Suspension or a Hard Tail ?????

(on a Hardtail I could always put a RockShox seat post)
I have a kind of bad lower back.

My budget is $ 800.00 tops, maybe 1,000 IF I like the bike.

Please advise,
Corsaire

You should try both out.

If it were me, and for the type of riding you described, I would go with a XC hardtail without a question. Heck, a good $800 XC hardtail will take you beyond the type of riding you describe.

IMO, you're bound to get a better component package/front fork for the money over a comparably priced full suspension.

You don't really need rear suspension for recreational/fitness flatland trail riding. It's a nice luxury if you have $1200+ (entry level) to spend on a bike, but not a necessity.

I like your idea of a suspension seatpost for the achy back. Maybe throw in some padded bike shorts too.

Defo go for a hardtail. at that price you can get a decent hardtail with good components- i suggest having a look at a Specialized Hardrock or rock hopper, which im sure you could get for that much ( not sure about the exchange rate between dollars and pounds).

Full Sussers at this budget will be very basic, probably with low-end components. Also for what you describe you want to use the bike for, you wouldnt get the advantages of full suspension, so it would be pointless!

Matt

Ok...a Hard Tail then, I've been looking at the ones my LBS has, I saw the Jamis Dakota (sport?) and the Bianchi
Denali, what do you think between those two?
The Bianchi felt very high quality and light.
How abou Cannondale? Steel or AL?
Jesus! so many things to ponder help!
Corsaire