Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Dinotte Amber and tail Li-Ion or AA??

So I've read so many reviews here about Dinotte really being hands down the best! I do think being seen can be a lifesaver, being that riding everyday can increase my odds of something happening. So I think I'm going to make the plunge. The question is: spend the extra dough for the long running times? Is it worth it? Are their any issues with the lithium Ion? do they last a long time? I would like this investment to go on for a bit. I can save some money getting the li -Ion amber and tailight together, but not the AA:(
What do you guys think?
Raffi

The best place to learn about Li-Ion batteries is to go to http://batteryuniversity.com/index.htm

You know better than anyone whether you need the additional runtime or not. The other advantages are lighter weight and size. But that comes at a higher cost. The main issue is that as you will read, Li-ion batteries immediately after production begin losing permanent capacity(different than self-discharging which is cured by recharging). If stored on a full charge at room temperature, as much as 20% per year can be lost. This means that if your initial runtime is 5 hours, it could be 4 hours my the end of year 1, 3 hours by the end of year 2, etc.

That reminds me, I need to run my Li-ion battery down to 50% and put it in the refrigerator for the summer!

I would say that if you already have AA batteries and a charger, go with that option. Historically you could not upgrade Dinotte's from AA to Li-ion and I think that is still true. So don't make a decision with that assumption in mind.

I think you'd be better off with the LiIon batteries, especially if you will be riding regularly.

The NiMh AA batteries will also run down on their own, so they need more attention to re-charging, in order to keep them topped off. You need to re-charge them the day before to tope them off for any long ride (more than 2-3 hours), or if they've been sitting for more than a couple days, IME.

I have all AA lights, and wish I had the Li-Ion versions. Last I checked, however, I thought they weighed the same as the AA versions. Is that not true?

I also think the regular headlight wouldbe a better choice than the amber light for a front "attention getter." Put that thing on blink mode, and I guarantee you that it's near impossible to miss. Plus, you can actually see with it if it gets dark, which is a good thing. I've not seen an amber light in person, though, so don't really know what it's capable of.

Have fun!

Unless I have a specific need for Li-ion battery's advantages (lighter weight, odd shapes, no memory effect, slow self-discharge rate), I wouldn't buy a Li-ion-powered light. Here are the reasons why:


Finite useful life. Li-ion batteries age independently of usage cycles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#Disadvantages). LEDs have an almost unlimited life span, but an inability to get replacement batteries will limit the utility of the light.
Proprietary battery and charger. Can you get replacements easily and cheaply in a couple of years?
No backups. With AA-powered batteries, if you forget to charge, you can always use Duracell/Energizer AA from any store in a pinch.
Possibly no battery upgrades. New battery technology will almost surely come packaged in the AA format. Will the new technology be available in the applicable specification of your Dinotte battery?


There are many real Li-ion advantages, but for the amber and red "be seen" Dinotte lights, the disadvantages are significant. I believe we are unlikely to see major increases in brightness for this kind of light (unlike the white "seeing" lights) simply because their brightness is already bordering on ludicrous. As such, I would like for my lights (I have two 140L-Rs) to have an extended life span that is not limited to its battery.

The NiMh AA batteries will also run down on their own, so they need more attention to re-charging, in order to keep them topped off. You need to re-charge them the day before to tope them off for any long ride (more than 2-3 hours), or if they've been sitting for more than a couple days, IME.


You can get low discharge nimh rechargeables, such as eneloop, and these do not self-discharge. Cheap AA rechargeablility and low discharge, a winning combination.

LEDs have an almost unlimited life span, but an inability to get replacement batteries will limit the utility of the light.
Proprietary battery and charger. Can you get replacements easily and cheaply in a couple of years?
No backups. With AA-powered batteries, if you forget to charge, you can always use Duracell/Energizer AA from any store in a pinch. I believe that Dinotte Lighting will be going strong during my lifetime, so availability of replacement batteries will be limited only by my access to their website. I have a shoebox full of Dinotte lithium ion rechargables.

You would get better advice if you gave us more details. Frequency and duration of usage, etc.

You would get better advice if you gave us more details. Frequency and duration of usage, etc.
+1
How much time are you going to be riding at night? If you only do it occasionally for less than about 1.5 hours the standard setup will be fine. If your like me doing 2 hours or more just forget about batteries. There simply not worth the harassment. A quality dynamo lighting system will solve all your problems. You have unlimited run time and never need worry about recharging and replacing batteries. Just jump on the bike and go. Modern dynamos, even tire driven types, induce much less drag than vintage dynamos. Anyone that complains about dynamo drag has never used a modern dynamo. I use a bottle type on my commuter and Touring bike and forget about the very slight additional drag after just a few minutes of riding with it engaged.

The best place to learn about Li-Ion batteries is to go to http://batteryuniversity.com/index.htm

You know better than anyone whether you need the additional runtime or not. The other advantages are lighter weight and size. But that comes at a higher cost. The main issue is that as you will read, Li-ion batteries immediately after production begin losing permanent capacity(different than self-discharging which is cured by recharging). If stored on a full charge at room temperature, as much as 20% per year can be lost. This means that if your initial runtime is 5 hours, it could be 4 hours my the end of year 1, 3 hours by the end of year 2, etc.

That reminds me, I need to run my Li-ion battery down to 50% and put it in the refrigerator for the summer!

I would say that if you already have AA batteries and a charger, go with that option. Historically you could not upgrade Dinotte's from AA to Li-ion and I think that is still true. So don't make a decision with that assumption in mind.
I will be using this light everyday, is there a difference in drain because of usage, between the aa's and the LI-Ion?

I think you'd be better off with the LiIon batteries, especially if you will be riding regularly.

The NiMh AA batteries will also run down on their own, so they need more attention to re-charging, in order to keep them topped off. You need to re-charge them the day before to tope them off for any long ride (more than 2-3 hours), or if they've been sitting for more than a couple days, IME.

I have all AA lights, and wish I had the Li-Ion versions. Last I checked, however, I thought they weighed the same as the AA versions. Is that not true?

I also think the regular headlight wouldbe a better choice than the amber light for a front "attention getter." Put that thing on blink mode, and I guarantee you that it's near impossible to miss. Plus, you can actually see with it if it gets dark, which is a good thing. I've not seen an amber light in person, though, so don't really know what it's capable of.

Have fun!
I have a Blackburn X6 double headlight system. It gets attention in daylight, but Not enough believe it or not. I'd also like the amber to blink while I'm running headlights to see. I thought that might mess with my own vision less to have the amber blinking at night.

You would get better advice if you gave us more details. Frequency and duration of usage, etc.

I'll be using these lights everyday. I'm thinking that if I get the AA's I'll only use them in low lighting, but everyday I ride I think I might like them in daylight especially. I'll be night riding in the short day months. I really won't use them more than a couple of hours each day. Bit then there are the days I choose to be on the road all day. Conserve batteries, or keep them on for that one idiot plowing down the road eating a big mac in his SUV, smoking a cigarette, and chatting on the cell?

Unless I have a specific need for Li-ion battery's advantages (lighter weight, odd shapes, no memory effect, slow self-discharge rate), I wouldn't buy a Li-ion-powered light. Here are the reasons why:

[LIST]
Finite useful life. Li-ion batteries

Is this not the case with all batteries? Is it life: as in time? or Life: frequency or recharging?


There are many real Li-ion advantages, but for the amber and red "be seen" Dinotte lights, the disadvantages are significant. I believe we are unlikely to see major increases in brightness for this kind of light (unlike the white "seeing" lights) simply because their brightness is already bordering on ludicrous. As such, I would like for my lights (I have two 140L-Rs) to have an extended life span that is not limited to its battery.

Don't you think these light will be around for a while? The taillight is by FAR the most praised light of any class or type out there!

+1
A quality dynamo lighting system will solve all your problems. You have unlimited run time and never need worry about recharging and replacing batteries. Just jump on the bike and go. Modern dynamos, even tire driven types, induce much less drag than vintage dynamos. Anyone that complains about dynamo drag has never used a modern dynamo. I use a bottle type on my commuter and Touring bike and forget about the very slight additional drag after just a few minutes of riding with it engaged.

I had the best German system. Great, but doesn't light diddily-sqaut. I cant believe they even cost me as much as something light the dinotte. They are made QUITE cheaply, yet cost and cost. I do agree, it was nice to always have lights without worrying about batteries, but I'm lucky to be alive after all those late night home rides!

Thanks everyone for the great responses. I'll be using the light daily, but not for long. I will use it for longer durations from time to time. Keep in mind I can get the AA's sold separately for $338 and the lithium as a package for $349.
I'm going to run another thread about whether the amber lights are really worth while, though what I've heard so far is that their a must in town. If there really are real disadvantages to lithium, or the amber turns out to be a waste of $ then I might just but the AA taillight. Otherwise, The Litium package is looking mighty good!

Don't you think these light will be around for a while? The taillight is by FAR the most praised light of any class or type out there!


I believe that Dinotte Lighting will be going strong during my lifetime, so availability of replacement batteries will be limited only by my access to their website. I have a shoebox full of Dinotte lithium ion rechargables.

I have fairly new (<5 year old) cameras from name-brand manufacturers that I have a tough time finding their proprietary batteries for. These are cameras that sold in the tens of thousands and the only replacements I can find are online and from 3rd party vendors (no performance confidence). While I certainly do not hope that Dinotte goes away, I do consider the possibility that it may happen. It may also happen that Dinotte develops something else and EOL the current battery/connector design. Who knows?

What I do know is that barring any unforeseen problem (e.g., light whacked by son with hammer), I can and will use my Dinotte lights for many years to come, regardless of whether Dinotte can supply replacements. I guess spending so much for lights had me concerned about the longevity and useful life of these things.

I fully acknowledge and appreciate the advantages of Li-ion batteries. However, if one doesn't need those advantages, why subject oneself to their significant disadvantages?

PS: having a shoebox full of lithium ion batteries still doesn't solve the problem of battery aging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#Disadvantages).

I will be using this light everyday, is there a difference in drain because of usage, between the aa's and the LI-Ion?

AA technology is based mostly on recharge cycles. Li-ion is based mostly on time, and temperature/% capacity that it is stored.

Like I said, if you would have given us all the information initially you would have received better advice. Piecemeal and wrong(i would call a $9 difference the same price) is frustrating. Read the information on battery university and decide for yourself. You will have all the information then and will not need other opinions. I personally would not consider a dynamo hub, but that imho.

I've come to really hate anything I have with AA charging. They don't seem to last very long when using them daily. Honestly, I didn't need two 4 cells and a 2 cell lithiums. I was thinking 1 front white, 1 back red, each a 4 cell, 2 cell on the helm with an amber blinking. I rarely use that set-up and run all 3 on one 4 cell. It gets me the couple/few hours to and from work. I really like the lithium battery. It's a neat little package that runs all those candlepowers, and very handy.

As for the lights.... THE BEST! these things rock!!

I've used the dinotte 200L and tail light with AA's for two years. This year I upgraded to the 400L and had the tail light upgraded to Li Ion. Having used both systems I hands down prefer the Li Ion. Mostly because it's far easier to use. Just plug the battery in and when the light turns green, you're ready. I also get better run times.

If you really want it, you can still build an AA battery pack. You will need 6 batteries instead of just 4. I'm also good at building up my own battery packs, so I don't fret the longevity issue that was mentioned.

Dinotte's service is first class. I think they will be around for a while. If you have any concerns just contact them directly. They will give you straight answers.

You can light a cigarette with a blowtorch, that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the application. Even cheapo blinkers are easy to see at night.

I ride with a Planet Bike Superflash and feel perfectly safe. No it's not as bright as the Dinotte, but I have enough things to recharge. I put my money into a pair of powerful headlamps for front illumination/visibility.

If you aim one of the directed 1/2 flashers out there slightly to the left, you will get all the attention you need, day or night. The ones I know of are:

a) Planet Bike Superflash
b) Niterider Cherry Bomb
c) Blackburn Mars 4.0

You can light a cigarette with a blowtorch, that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the application. Even cheapo blinkers are easy to see at night.

I ride with a Planet Bike Superflash and feel perfectly safe. No it's not as bright as the Dinotte, but I have enough things to recharge. I put my money into a pair of powerful headlamps for front illumination/visibility.

If you aim one of the directed 1/2 flashers out there slightly to the left, you will get all the attention you need, day or night. The ones I know of are:

a) Planet Bike Superflash
b) Niterider Cherry Bomb
c) Blackburn Mars 4.0

I have 3 superflashes, yes their great, but they aren't anywhere in the league. Not to mention that having the whole system is far better than different parts for me.

AA technology is based mostly on recharge cycles. Li-ion is based mostly on time, and temperature/% capacity that it is stored.

Like I said, if you would have given us all the information initially you would have received better advice. Piecemeal and wrong(i would call a $9 difference the same price) is frustrating.

Is that the word kind in your name?
sorry to inconvenience you. The thread is most certainly not only for me, but everyone considering the same questions.