Fifty Plus (50+) - The Young'uns are coming after our jobs!

Article on which Boomers are retiring soon, which are more likely to work longer, and which industries are ripe for younger blood:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/worklife/06/04/cb.take.advantage.retirement/index.html

Note: In 6.5 years, all Boomers will be 50+.

They can have mine. I hate my job. The company treats us like crap.
Oh, wait a minute....I can't afford to leave.

Ya go 14 years w/only one raise...stay because ya need the
health insurance to provide meds for an ill spouse...and then
they make the insurance unaffordable.

Screw it...they can have my job, house, life....all in one neat package....
hold my helmet for me while I go for a ride.

Oh, never mind, I'll stay....someone needs to train the new blood.

But seriously....
The article is right on the money as over 50% of my department is
retirement eligable with 25% more eligable in two years. Yes, there are
only 16 of us, but we're a department that's representative of the
demographics of the entire company.

They can have mine. I hate my job. The company treats us like crap.
Oh, wait a minute....I can't afford to leave.

How old is the boss? One of the things I found out is how hard is to get hired when the person making the hiring desicion is younger than you. I guess that nobody wants to hire their dad.

My wife started a new job a couple of years ago but the person who hired her is 68. I suspect the average age of their entire staff exceeds 50.

The young'uns have been after my job for years- Well they have got it now. Took demotion without loss of wages and the only thing I lost was responsibility.

Only problem is- Their "new" ideas don't work and I have been asked to sort out the mess they have got into.

No-Way. They made the mess- they can sort itout.

Not enough young RN's coming down the pipeline to ever threaten my hospital job.

We haven't been able to find or hire any hands on prototype designers for years now. Nada. The kids coming out of school have the wrong skill set completely.

Now this may go a long way toward understanding why we are outsourcing manufacturing jobs overseas. IMHO, its nice to want to manage but someone has to invent and make new things.

Try finding a Tool and Die maker or Model Maker under the age of 48 not that many out there for sure and most are over 50. Old guys that have retired are working part time to help some of these companies out.

The next economic war will be the young against the old. Everyone is replaceable. Even so, with enough inflation, even the once big salaries of some elder pros don't seem so big after a while, what with the continual decrease in earning power and all of aggressive, progressive taxation that eats away at earners' net incomes.

Let's hope that as long as old-timers still can bring to the workplace some realism, dependability, energy, good work ethics, a cooperative attitude, and the ability to change and teach others, that the companies that they work for will be more interested in the gleam in their eyes than the gray in their beards.

Of course, all of that depends on capitalism and the raising of all boats. Without that, all is up for grabs. The collectivists see everything as a zero-sum game: if they see some green in someone's pockets, they look at it as doing noble work when they take it instead of earn it.

I've attended presentations by Manpower where they project that there will be a significant worker shortage in the USA (and Europe) as the Baby Boom generation retires. That there will be far fewer replacement workers than what will be needed in many industries. And that the #1 focus area of employee recruiters will be retirees and 60+. That those people will possess many of the skills needed and thus require less trainer.

Furthermore they advised companies to relax work requirements to provide more part-time jobs, in order to be more attractive to 60+'ers.

Their projections were that intense recruitment of the 60+ work force will begin sometime in or around 2015.

We haven't been able to find or hire any hands on prototype designers for years now. Nada. The kids coming out of school have the wrong skill set completely.

Now this may go a long way toward understanding why we are outsourcing manufacturing jobs overseas. IMHO, its nice to want to manage but someone has to invent and make new things.

My best friend is a design engineer - this is his same complaint. All the degreed engineers they hire right out of college are worthless. They just aren't creative - more like glorified draftsmen. I argue it's the fault of video games and computers. Kids no longer have to use their imagination - it's all been programed for them. Plus kids get into the science without having any apptitude or the "knack" for it - it's just a good way to make money.

It kind of scares me that all the new products and stuff are sortof being half-assed designed.

Problem with the "labor shortage" is that employers want youth with very specific skills. Try and find a job at 50. I have degree in Chemistry and worked environmental for 20 years, took me a few years to find a job.

Decided to retire at the end of this year.........the big 60. More time to ride, enjoy the grand kids, do a little travelling, let the young 'uns see what they can do. I am satisfied that I made a contribution to two companies over the last 39 years.........now is my time.

But aren't we a protected class?!

I love what I do at work but I rarely have time to do it. I am so frustrated I just want to retire and ride. I have 7 more years to go and unless things change I will go out at the first possible moment. I might continue to work - but on my terms.

I've attended presentations by Manpower where they project that there will be a significant worker shortage in the USA (and Europe) as the Baby Boom generation retires. That there will be far fewer replacement workers than what will be needed in many industries. And that the #1 focus area of employee recruiters will be retirees and 60+. That those people will possess many of the skills needed and thus require less trainer.

Furthermore they advised companies to relax work requirements to provide more part-time jobs, in order to be more attractive to 60+'ers.

Their projections were that intense recruitment of the 60+ work force will begin sometime in or around 2015.

Finally, I may time something right - hitting 60 just about the time they're starting intense recruitment! Of course, with the way the economy's going, I'm not going to have any choice about working; right now, my 401-K's losing money about as fast as I'm contributing it! :cry::mad:
- Bob

I am going to ride my current job as long as I can, but my next planned career move is into a combination of teaching and consulting. I want to stay active and to keep working, but I want to take the intensity down a notch, and I can afford to take a hit on income level. I suspect there are lots of people who feel as I do. If we have worked hard, lived frugally, and invested well, we gradually get to the point that we value our time more than our income.

I followed the most illogical career path imaginable, and yet somehow it has all come out ok. First, I trained seeing eye dogs for six years after I got out of college with a degree in the completely impractical field of writing. Then, at the age of 30, I decided a wise career move would be to quit my job and wander around Europe on a bicycle for six months.

When I came back to the States, I sold some stories and pictures to magazines about my bike trip, and I've been working as a writer and editor ever since. To my surprise, the competition gets less intense as you go up the ladder. I'm now a "senior communicator" supervising a small but excellent staff. I've reached the point where my job now involves sitting in meetings, listening carefully, nodding sagely, and sneaking out at 4:00 for a bike ride as frequently as possible.

I came to the USA 1963. Since then this country has been transformed from a manufacturing based economy to a financial shuffle money economy. I have seen statistics as high as 80% are in non-manufacturing.
If this is sustainable is very much in question but one result is that the brightest go where the money is and it is not in manufacturing.
That means that anybody educated or trained in manufacturing is not likely to be a happy camper.

I have gone through several re-tools in my working life and happened, without any forethought, to end up in a job that actually values age and experience. It seems the older I get, the less hair I have, and the more gray the hair that is left turns, the more credibility I am accorded. I suppose I could work at my current job until I die in my chair, but that's not my idea of an "end of life" plan. I think I'll eventually make some excuse that will allow me to bow out gracefully. Then I can ride a lot, and spend the rest of my time in the garden, in the studio, in the workshop, or traveling.

I came to the USA 1963. Since then this country has been transformed from a manufacturing based economy to a financial shuffle money economy. I have seen statistics as high as 80% are in non-manufacturing.
If this is sustainable is very much in question but one result is that the brightest go where the money is and it is not in manufacturing.
That means that anybody educated or trained in manufacturing is not likely to be a happy camper.

Isn't this what Reich predicted when he described the "knowledge workers" in the early 80s?

After retiring from a high tech datacommunications/telecommunications job in '94 I was in a position to take some nice consulting gigs which paid quite well. If I had wanted to remain in that field I would have stayed where I was. Instead, after a two year vacation to get my head together, I took a job as a Historic Interpreter at a museum for WAY less money and WAY more fun.

I'm 68 and retired from the HVAC trade. Hardly a month goes by without a job offer. There is a real shortage of skilled techs in this area, no doubt brought on be the move from unions to open shops. Nobody is training the young guys anymore, and they don't pay enough to retain the old timers. Tough. I'll stay retired. I feel that retirement is where my natural talent lies!:)

I feel that retirement is where my natural talent lies!:)
:lol::lol::thumb: I always say...if I'd known how much I liked retirement, I would have retired at 21. :p

But aren't we a protected class?!

Yes, ages 40 to 70, but proving that you have been a victim of age discrimination under Title VII can be very difficult for individuals.:mad:

we gradually get to the point that we value our time more than our income.

+1

I'll be retiring in October and I'm looking forward to getting out of the daily rat race:thumb:

I decided long ago that I wanted to do something after retirement totally unrelated to my current job. I'm a senior software engineer and I'll be working for Weight Watchers after retirement. The work hours are great as I can work a couple hours a few times each week and schedule them around my bike rides.

I gave my job to one of them eight years ago. Hope he keeps doing good so he can pay my retirement.If you need any pointers on how to retire my wife says I am good at it.

Wink

Article on which Boomers are retiring soon, which are more likely to work longer, and which industries are ripe for younger blood:


Thats one reason that I'm in Arkansas now. I spent 10 months looking for a job in California, interviewing with people younger than myself.

We haven't been able to find or hire any hands on prototype designers for years now. Nada. The kids coming out of school have the wrong skill set completely.

Now this may go a long way toward understanding why we are outsourcing manufacturing jobs overseas. IMHO, its nice to want to manage but someone has to invent and make new things.

Could you give an example of some of the skill set that's missing? I'm a teacher and I hear this frequently. What skill sets would overseas educational systems or cultures be delivering to their kids that we don't? Just curious.

I've reached the point where my job now involves sitting in meetings, listening carefully, nodding sagely, and sneaking out at 4:00 for a bike ride as frequently as possible.

Hey, it's a tough job but somebody's got to do it!:D

Could you give an example of some of the skill set that's missing? I'm a teacher and I hear this frequently. What skill sets would overseas educational systems or cultures be delivering to their kids that we don't? Just curious.

We are sending too many people to college and not enough to technical/vocational schools. The skill sets we need are in the areas of taking ideas to real hardware. I do not find many junior engineers who can solder or be given a tool to use safely without supervision. We get software engineers who can write beautiful code (if you give them a program structure), but who can't look at a machine and create a program to operate it because they don't seem to be able to understand how the machine works.

Specifically in my industry, we can't find enough high powered RF designers. Everyone seems to be concentrating on cell phone technology. (High power RF technology still looks like something an engineer from the 50's would understand.)

We cannot blame the schools for a good part of this. We have also lost a lot of the feeder systems that fed and nurtured young engineers as they obtained job experience. Because we cannot affort to pay high wages to people who are in effect trainees there is an attraction for many of the young engineers to look for jobs with higher incomes. They migrate to companies where they produce paperwork and specifications which are in turn used to purchase manufactured goods from overseas.

Several years ago there were lots of articles on how retirements were going to kill the railroad business. The trains seem to still be running. Think it makes up for alot of print inches filled in the business pages.

We are sending too many people to college and not enough to technical/vocational schools. The skill sets we need are in the areas of taking ideas to real hardware. I do not find many junior engineers who can solder or be given a tool to use safely without supervision. We get software engineers who can write beautiful code (if you give them a program structure), but who can't look at a machine and create a program to operate it because they don't seem to be able to understand how the machine works.

Specifically in my industry, we can't find enough high powered RF designers. Everyone seems to be concentrating on cell phone technology. (High power RF technology still looks like something an engineer from the 50's would understand.)

We cannot blame the schools for a good part of this. We have also lost a lot of the feeder systems that fed and nurtured young engineers as they obtained job experience. Because we cannot affort to pay high wages to people who are in effect trainees there is an attraction for many of the young engineers to look for jobs with higher incomes. They migrate to companies where they produce paperwork and specifications which are in turn used to purchase manufactured goods from overseas.

Wow, I posted before I saw this. Agree 1000% but I do blame the High Schools for this. They have made the mark of a successful school system the percent of grads that go to college. This is a major problem, not enough technical training.

Could you give an example of some of the skill set that's missing? I'm a teacher and I hear this frequently. What skill sets would overseas educational systems or cultures be delivering to their kids that we don't? Just curious.

If the US is anything to go by- It is the Manual skilled jobs that have problems. Housebuilding is in a slump but Carpenters- Brick layers- Plumbers are all lacking and we have the influx of the new Eastern European's to fill the vacancies.

Plenty of University graduates in Business studies- Marketing- Media studies-Physical Education- but there just aren't the jobs for them. And what is the point when people such as my daughter spent 4 years at Uni to get a degree- to then have a top potential of around £30,000 a year- when a plumber gets £2,000 a week- if you can get one

Deyterkerjerbs!

Could you give an example of some of the skill set that's missing? I'm a teacher and I hear this frequently. What skill sets would overseas educational systems or cultures be delivering to their kids that we don't? Just curious.

[Caution: This might be a rant.]

In my "business" (mental heath) what is needed is judgment, intellect, ethics (including work ethic), curiosity, a willingness to listen and learn, open-mindedness, capacity for abstract thought, non-rigid/non-linear/non-judgmental thought processes, practiced critical thinking skills, and inventiveness. I couldn't blame the schools or the teachers for the absolute absence of these qualities in the interns i supervise - I blame the parents and, by extension, our society. I am afraid we've bred a few generations of concrete, materialistic, shallow, gratification-driven dullards and our society will suffer for decades as a result.

But aren't we a protected class?!

Same protection given Veterans :(

Originally Posted by maddmaxx We haven't been able to find or hire any hands on prototype designers for years now. Nada. The kids coming out of school have the wrong skill set completely.

Now this may go a long way toward understanding why we are outsourcing manufacturing jobs overseas. IMHO, its nice to want to manage but someone has to invent and make new things.


Could you give an example of some of the skill set that's missing? I'm a teacher and I hear this frequently. What skill sets would overseas educational systems or cultures be delivering to their kids that we don't? Just curious.

I'm in the philippines, a mid manager engineer setting up a R&D lab to compliment (co-exist) with US lab. Same problems in Far east as US with new hires. What colleges teach is 'Explicit' knowledge. What us older folks have is 'tacit' knowledge, as also needed in the skilled craftsman arena. As an aside, usually the only advantage to mfg'ing in the far east is cheap labor and I have to sadly admit (My Opinion) the 'laziness' of US labor - I reckon I'll get alot of flames on this but I notice a considerable number of young americans that were raised in a world of wealth wereas most of you and I understand poverty. These ypoung folks don't want any of that and are confused as to why they don't have it NOW. Thats why they and I quote "I won't take a job at minimum wage"

I just turned 61 and feel VERY appreciated by my company (both here and in US) for my 30+ years of knowledge. What i see wrong in the US is our business leaders going for profits rather than investing in our youth. With exception of my company which I hope does not change its policy re: americans & maintain hiring new engineers. As an old manager I've seen mfg go from US to Mexico to China and see steps to see us go to other countries (Vietnam not yet ready for the logistics infrastructure needed, but getting closer ever day.

This is a good thread. I worry over america's future. And Yes I am over here helping the philippines as I think if I were not in the PI, they would give our jobs to China. Thus I'm still fighting the war I was in almost 40 years ago - and still hope to win.

What am I doing for US future you may ask? - I'm decided to continue working to establish college or vocational funds for my G'kids. Got it setup and contributing every paycheck.

We are sending too many people to college and not enough to technical/vocational schools. The skill sets we need are in the areas of taking ideas to real hardware. I do not find many junior engineers who can solder or be given a tool to use safely without supervision. We get software engineers who can write beautiful code (if you give them a program structure), but who can't look at a machine and create a program to operate it because they don't seem to be able to understand how the machine works.

Specifically in my industry, we can't find enough high powered RF designers. Everyone seems to be concentrating on cell phone technology. (High power RF technology still looks like something an engineer from the 50's would understand.)

We cannot blame the schools for a good part of this. We have also lost a lot of the feeder systems that fed and nurtured young engineers as they obtained job experience. Because we cannot affort to pay high wages to people who are in effect trainees there is an attraction for many of the young engineers to look for jobs with higher incomes. They migrate to companies where they produce paperwork and specifications which are in turn used to purchase manufactured goods from overseas.

I agree that some people are being sent to college only to be educated way past their intelligence. I can't respond to a lot of the rest of your thoughts because I don't know what an RF designer is (RF is, what, radio frequency?!).

The notion that American education is defective has been around for quite a while, maybe for as long as American education itself. The launch of Sputnik produced "new math," which was later officially declared a failure. The report "A Nation at Risk" said America was on the verge of going to hell in a handbasket, educationally speaking. Still somehow we seem to persevere. For example, who was it that invented the internet? It started with the military, which, I suspect, has no problem attracting good engineers, or at least its subcontractors have no problems doing so.

I teach Engish in high school in Washington state. It was going to be required that students had to pass the state math test to graduate, but not wanting to commit political suicide (only 30% of students able to pass & graduate), the politicians have pushed back that requirement deadline until 2011.

I do blame the High Schools for this. They have made the mark of a successful school system the percent of grads that go to college. This is a major problem, not enough technical training.

Why stop with the high schools? Why not blame the jr. high schools, the elementary schools, and the first teachers, the parents? There is, I think, a lot of technical training going on. There could be a lot more. Doesn't Europe have an apprentice system that works very well?

[Caution:
In my "business" (mental heath) what is needed is . . . I am afraid we've bred a few generations of concrete, materialistic, shallow, gratification-driven dullards and our society will suffer for decades as a result.

Looks to me then like your profession will be much in demand, so you must have great job security!:)

Why stop with the high schools? Why not blame the jr. high schools, the elementary schools, and the first teachers, the parents? There is, I think, a lot of technical training going on. There could be a lot more. Doesn't Europe have an apprentice system that works very well?

I blame the folks who support paying super stars $XXX millions and teachers nera $x,000.00 Thats why I don't go to sporting events.

Looks to me then like your profession will be much in demand, so you must have great job security!:)

I do. And, sadly, a steady stream of new "customers." The pressures that have come to bear on all of us, on almost all fronts, have brought a proportionate increase in misery.

[Caution: This might be a rant.]

...



Nah. Too short.

Nah. Too short.

OK, maybe. But I felt much better after I wrote it. Doesn't that qualify?

Why stop with the high schools? Why not blame the jr. high schools, the elementary schools, and the first teachers, the parents? There is, I think, a lot of technical training going on. There could be a lot more. Doesn't Europe have an apprentice system that works very well?

Exactly the point. Europe has such a system, we don't. (These are broad generalizations, there are industry sponsored systems like this here but they are too few and too far apart).

Its not the school systems we should blame. There are a lot of fine teachers out there. But they are firing at the wrong target. All parents want their kids to go to college, graduate to a 6 figure income with a corner office and a golden parachute.

How many vocational (shop classes) courses did your high school have when you were a student. How many do they have today (I'd be willing to bet a lot fewer). What students are directed toward those classes. Are they perhaps those students that "everyone" thinks are going to be less than successful attending college.

As to the Internet success you speak of in the other post or the projects and plans that the military has had success on............your in the generation that did most of that, and we are about to retire.

I blame the folks who support paying super stars $XXX millions and teachers nera $x,000.00 Thats why I don't go to sporting events.

Red Baron, you the man! I agree 1000%. Our cultural values do seem skewed when thugs who can hit, throw, or catch a ball or singers with clutch-the-crotch syndrome make as much as they do. That's one of the reasons I disconnected our cable TV about a year ago. Why was I paying for that "entertainment"?!

I do. And, sadly, a steady stream of new "customers." The pressures that have come to bear on all of us, on almost all fronts, have brought a proportionate increase in misery.

Note: Irony flag raised here.

More drugs! We need more drugs!

Note: Irony flag lowered.

Its not the school systems we should blame. There are a lot of fine teachers out there. But they are firing at the wrong target. All parents want their kids to go to college, graduate to a 6 figure income with a corner office and a golden parachute.

How many vocational (shop classes) courses did your high school have when you were a student. How many do they have today (I'd be willing to bet a lot fewer). What students are directed toward those classes. Are they perhaps those students that "everyone" thinks are going to be less than successful attending college.


Many parents want their kids to get ahead no matter what but not all. I've taught for 24 years--16 in Japan and 8 here in the U.S. Since returning to the U.S. I've seen some ugly incidents with parents who will stop at nothing to get their kids ahead. I have a kid in a 9th-grade Honors English class who failed his 8th grade English classes but his parents threatened lawsuit and threw enough tantrums that he was placed in the Honors class.

On the other hand, I have parents who couldn't give a crap about their kids' lives; the parents' own lives are so screwed up with drugs, alcohol, serial spouses (or boyfriends/girlfriends), that their own children are just too much for them to deal with. Had a kid in a sophomore class who was dealing drugs and was just waiting 'til age 16 so he could drop out (which he later did). His mother, a registered nurse in town, was perfectly happy for him to sell drugs because it meant he made his own money and she didn't have to worry about him financially.

It's a wacky world! These examples are extremes. Fortunately, most parents are fairly reasonable and when they're not over the years I've developed some strategies and record keeping practices to show them where the responsibility for the work and behavior lies: with the student.

Their projections were that intense recruitment of the 60+ work force will begin sometime in or around 2015.


There is still hope for me, then. I will only be 78 in 2015.

I would like to be an 'EXECUTIVE."

Shall I post my resume'?

There is still hope for me, then. I will only be 78 in 2015.

I would like to be an 'EXECUTIVE."

Shall I post my resume'?




You could be an "executive" like I am. I have an office where I do "pretend work". The pay's not too great, but the coffee and hours are.