Bicycle Mechanics - Kerosene vs. Simple Green as a cleaner

I am doing a lot of bicycle work this weekend.

Got my kerosene as a cleaner/degreaser. Got my Simple Green as a cleaner degreaser.

Not sure why I got both.

Kerosene = $3.50 per gallon.
Simple Green = $5.00 per gallon.

Kerosene = Squirt, Squirt wipe
Simple Green = Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, wipe wipe, Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, wipe wipe, repeat.

Refresh my memory. Why do we use Simple Green?

Not flamable, not toxic, not carcinogenic, not explosive, not poisonous, ... I could go on.

I soak berings in a little paint thinner. probably shouldn't cause of the fumes but they clean up nice and easy.

because those damned kids! They are stupid! drinking that kerosine.......

actually if its just you that has access to it than just use the kerosine. I used to use gasoline until it shoot up to $2.50 per gallon.

Not flamable, not toxic, not carcinogenic, not explosive, not poisonous, ... I could go on.

Ding Ding Ding Ding...give that man a ceeeegar. Can't recall what forum, but someone recently posted "Never Ever" use simple green to clean yer bike. Got a good chuckle from that one...

because those damned kids! They are stupid! drinking that kerosine.......

actually if its just you that has access to it than just use the kerosine. I used to use gasoline until it shoot up to $2.50 per gallon.


I was thinking the same thing. Now with gasoline at over $4.00/gallon, it has become an expensive cleaner/solvent.

Please will you ship me some of that there $4.00 a gallon gasoline over here to England? !!!!! It now costs £6.00 a gallon here (I think that's about $12.00). Our Government takes most of that in tax - "Greedy Gordon Brown" tells us it's for our own good, to save the planet. I'll lick my bike parts clean if I could only afford to drive my car - 50 miles each way is just too long a commute to do by bike and get to work on time - and public transport in the UK is a joke! OK I've got that off my chest now, back to bike mechanics!

Please will you ship me some of that there $4.00 a gallon gasoline over here to England? !!!!! It now costs £6.00 a gallon here (I think that's about $12.00). Our Government takes most of that in tax - "Greedy Gordon Brown" tells us it's for our own good, to save the planet. I'll lick my bike parts clean if I could only afford to drive my car - 50 miles each way is just too long a commute to do by bike and get to work on time - and public transport in the UK is a joke! OK I've got that off my chest now, back to bike mechanics!

I've only been to England once, but Maidstone is near Leeds Castle, right?

Tough commute, but at least it must be really pretty...

If you're going to use kerosene (or mineral spirits or paint thinner) then definitely wear gloves and work outside. Disposable latex gloves won't cut it, as you'll surely know if you've tried before; latex is dissolved by all of these solvents. I use disposable nitrile gloves for all my car, bike, and furniture finishing work. Any of these solvents will perform better than Simple Green. Don't use gasoline though; it ignites way too easily to be a safe degreaser.

Simple Green isn't so great for you either, ya know. I saw a study that correlated use of spray cleaners with asthma, probably because the atomized chemicals irritate and inflame your lungs. That's all it takes to contribute to asthma. The study didn't single out Simple Green, it was all spray cleaners, but it's enough to make you wonder.

Not flamable, not toxic, not carcinogenic, not explosive, not poisonous, ... I could go on.

you forgot not effective.............

because those damned kids! They are stupid! drinking that kerosine.......

actually if its just you that has access to it than just use the kerosine. I used to use gasoline until it shoot up to $2.50 per gallon.

Gasoline - not the most unsafe solvent but it's up there.
Kerosene - used it on chains 20+ years ago. Poured it on the ground to kill the weeds when it got too dirty. I'm smarter now than I used to be.

kerosine vs. acetone vs. mineral spirits/paint thinner vs ...

Any difference between them all? Acetone is 100% water miscible and dries the fastest so wouldnt that be best?

Shimano recommends that you NOT use caustic cleaners, such as simple green, on chains....fyi

I took home a can of flux remover at work, which seems to be mostly pressurized acetone. When that stuff sprays out, I can litearlly see gunk being melted and blown off the chain.

kerosine vs. acetone vs. mineral spirits/paint thinner vs ...

Any difference between them all? Acetone is 100% water miscible and dries the fastest so wouldnt that be best?

Haven't tried acetone but mineral spirits dry fast enough for me.

Please will you ship me some of that there $4.00 a gallon gasoline over here to England? !!!!! It now costs £6.00 a gallon here (I think that's about $12.00). Our Government takes most of that in tax - "Greedy Gordon Brown" tells us it's for our own good, to save the planet. I'll lick my bike parts clean if I could only afford to drive my car - 50 miles each way is just too long a commute to do by bike and get to work on time - and public transport in the UK is a joke! OK I've got that off my chest now, back to bike mechanics!

Ha haa. Good one, Oldpeddaller. Lick a bicycle clean for gas money? I think there might be employment possibilities for you here in the USA.

If it makes you feel any better, England has long been an inspiration for USA bicycle commuters - myself included.

As a youth, I used to imagine the British streets filled with all kinds of people floating by on their Raleigh 3-speeds going to work and so-forth.

Imagine my culture-shock when I went to London and couldn't cross the streets for all the automotive traffic.

Still, the imagery exists and I dream that somewhere in England people commute by bicycle and coppers chase down houligans on their two-wheelers.

Forget about the environment for just one second. What is THE fastest, THE easiest, THE BEST way to get grease off? What is it? Gasoline? Kerosene? Brakleen? What?

kerosine vs. acetone vs. mineral spirits/paint thinner vs ...

Any difference between them all? Acetone is 100% water miscible and dries the fastest so wouldnt that be best?

Acetone is 100% water miscible because it's a polar organic solvent. Greases and oils are non-polar, so they're better dissolved by non-polar solvents such as paint thinner, mineral spirits, kerosene, perchloroethylene, etc. Acetone is safer than the nonpolar organic solvents, but it has its own dangers, and the relative safety doesn't mean much if it doesn't do the job in the first place.

Acetone is great for other things though, just not grease.

Acetone is 100% water miscible because it's a polar organic solvent. Greases and oils are non-polar, so they're better dissolved by non-polar solvents such as paint thinner, mineral spirits, kerosene, perchloroethylene, etc. Acetone is safer than the nonpolar organic solvents, but it has its own dangers, and the relative safety doesn't mean much if it doesn't do the job in the first place.

Acetone is great for other things though, just not grease.

Acetone might be a bit too aggressive for bicycle cleaning. It is really wicked on human skin. Acetone will dissolve paint too, which is why I don't use it.

I personally use diesel as a degreaser, as it gets rid of built up gunge and grime very effectively but doesn't strip the lubrication out of chains like many cleaners such as citrus oil can. At A$1.80/L it's not overly expensive either.

Forget about the environment for just one second. What is THE fastest, THE easiest, THE BEST way to get grease off? What is it? Gasoline? Kerosene? Brakleen? What?

Carbon tetrachloride.






The history of that will explain why we now use simple green.....:)

Acetone is 100% water miscible because it's a polar organic solvent. Greases and oils are non-polar, so they're better dissolved by non-polar solvents such as paint thinner, mineral spirits, kerosene, perchloroethylene, etc. Acetone is safer than the nonpolar organic solvents, but it has its own dangers, and the relative safety doesn't mean much if it doesn't do the job in the first place.

Acetone is great for other things though, just not grease.

Makes sense. So between the nonpolar solvents are some better then others? Would Kerosene be better then mineral spirits or vice versa? All basically the same?

Makes sense. So between the nonpolar solvents are some better then others? Would Kerosene be better then mineral spirits or vice versa? All basically the same?

As mentioned above, I don't use acetate because it can remove paint and is so bad on the skin.

Between kerosene, diesel fuel, mineral spirits, and gas, I guess I like kerosene best. They all work pretty well, but kerosene is less explosive and is more mild on the hands.

Gas is just so spooky to work with.

Diesel is pretty good, but it stinks and it is hard to wash out the smell.

Mineral spirits have the advantage of being able to use something that is multi-purpose for around the house. It evaporates nicely and is clean. Mineral spirits are second to gasoline for explosivity and it is very drying on the hands.

I am doing a lot of bicycle work this weekend.

Got my kerosene as a cleaner/degreaser. Got my Simple Green as a cleaner degreaser.

Not sure why I got both.

Kerosene = $3.50 per gallon.
Simple Green = $5.00 per gallon.

Kerosene = Squirt, Squirt wipe
Simple Green = Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, wipe wipe, Squirt, Squirt, Squirt, wipe wipe, repeat.

Refresh my memory. Why do we use Simple Green?

Mix Simple Green with Formula 409 or use 409 alone. Excellent hand cleaner and doesn't damage skin. I use surgical gloves instead of a cleaner later. You'll be amazed. 'Been doing it for years. Simple Green is better for taking the black stains out of carpet from rim contact brakes that are wet and drip after a ride in the rain.
:thumb:

The mixture I suggested is for hand cleaning. I use dish detergent and water for my bike. If I work on any bearings, I wear surgical gloves, and clean with virgin lacquer thinner. Leaves no residue at all, but not good for paint, rubber or skin.

Shimano recommends that you NOT use caustic cleaners, such as simple green, on chains....fyi

what do they recommend?

Makes sense. So between the nonpolar solvents are some better then others? Would Kerosene be better then mineral spirits or vice versa? All basically the same?

Mineral spirits is a bit better than kerosene because it's vapor pressure is higher. It evaporates more quickly and cleanly. It's also more slightly more flammable.

Acetone is 100% water miscible because it's a polar organic solvent. Greases and oils are non-polar, so they're better dissolved by non-polar solvents such as paint thinner, mineral spirits, kerosene, perchloroethylene, etc. Acetone is safer than the nonpolar organic solvents, but it has its own dangers, and the relative safety doesn't mean much if it doesn't do the job in the first place.

Acetone is great for other things though, just not grease.

You are correct in that acetone has little effect on grease. As to the relative safety, it's a wash. Acetone is more flammable than mineral spirits and kerosene but it's toxicity is about the same as mineral spirits. Chlorinated solvents like perc have more toxic potential then the other solvents.

I'd be interested to know if Shimano specifically prohibited Simple Green, as Simple Green is not caustic. Its active ingredients are nonionic surfactants - probably of the polyoxyethylene variety, though I don't really remember. In any case, there's nothing caustic in it...you won't get a chemical burn from it. I've worked for long periods cleaning bike parts with full-strength Simple Green and no gloves, and it wasn't a problem at all.

+1 on the recent comments about acetone.

By the way, for grease the lighter nonpolar solvents (like gasoline, naphtha, hexane, and - shiver - carbon tetrachloride) are the most effective. Unfortunately, they are often also the most problematic in terms of health/flammability issues. Carbon tet isn't flammable, but its health effects more than make up for that.

By the way, if you want to expose yourself to chemical warfare agents, heating up carbon tetrachloride in air will make phosgene.

Acetone might be a bit too aggressive for bicycle cleaning. It is really wicked on human skin. Acetone will dissolve paint too, which is why I don't use it.

According to my handy wallet NFPA ratings card...yes, I have one and a periodic table in my wallet :geek::geek::geek:...kerosene, mineral spirits and acetone all have about the same health hazards. They are all in the '1' category. Acetone is a 3 in flammability (flash point below 100 F) while kerosene is a '1' (below 200 F) and mineral spirits are '1' or '2' depending on the type of mineral spirits being used.

Acetone will dry the skin but it's not terribly hazardous to it. Simple Green lists everything as '0' but I would dispute that based on what I've seen for ingredients. Simple Green is rather caustic (sodium hydroxide) and caustic is particularly bad for the skin. It soponifies the fats under the skin and can lead to real damage in prolonged contact. It's easy to wash off...just rinse until the soapy feel is gone...but if you leave it on for too long, it can cause real harm.

Needless to say, use gloves...nitrile...with all of these.

Isn't nail polish remover just acetone with a little oil added?

Isn't nail polish remover just acetone with a little oil added?

ya, that's what I thought too, so I don't use it on bikes.

Kerosene = $3.50 per gallon.
Simple Green = $5.00 per gallon.
Why? are u buying the 25 gallons drum to clean the tour's bikes?

Kerosene = smells bad, SG = smells good, that's reason enuff.

Kerosene = $3.50 per gallon.
Simple Green = $5.00 per gallon.


What I want to know is where are you finding Kerosene for that price. I think the last time I checked a gallon was around $8 (In a bottle as I don't know of any gas stations that have a kerosene pump anymore).

I'd be interested to know if Shimano specifically prohibited Simple Green, as Simple Green is not caustic. Its active ingredients are nonionic surfactants - probably of the polyoxyethylene variety, though I don't really remember. In any case, there's nothing caustic in it...you won't get a chemical burn from it. I've worked for long periods cleaning bike parts with full-strength Simple Green and no gloves, and it wasn't a problem at all.

+1 on the recent comments about acetone.

By the way, for grease the lighter nonpolar solvents (like gasoline, naphtha, hexane, and - shiver - carbon tetrachloride) are the most effective. Unfortunately, they are often also the most problematic in terms of health/flammability issues. Carbon tet isn't flammable, but its health effects more than make up for that.

By the way, if you want to expose yourself to chemical warfare agents, heating up carbon tetrachloride in air will make phosgene.

A pH of 9.5 +/- 0.8 is sufficiently caustic that I'd take great care in using it. It's not highly caustic but I wouldn't be rinsing my hands in it. That high of a pH also suggests that it's not all nonionic surfactants.

cyccommute, thanks for the info. I had no idea that Simple Green was so basic. I'll probably start using more care, though I have done hub overhauls with my bare hands alternately submerged in full-strength Simple Green and water for over an hour with no noticeable effects.

A pH of 10 is, like, 0.0001 M NaOH, though...I'd think that even laundry detergent is more caustic than this.

The EPA seems basically OK with skin contact:

"SIMPLE GREEN® is safe for use on skin and will not cause irritation in the majority of users. Avoid contact with eyes, irritation may result. Wear splash goggles or full face-shield and have eye washing equipment available in areas where potential is high for eye contact. No special precautions or additional protective equipment are required during handling or use." (from epa.gov)

Great discussion, guys. It reminded me that I need to clean my chain. All I have is denatured alcohol though. Any guess how well that may work? Thanks!

I think it won't work well at all.

What I want to know is where are you finding Kerosene for that price. I think the last time I checked a gallon was around $8 (In a bottle as I don't know of any gas stations that have a kerosene pump anymore).

Right. We can still get Kerosene here at the gas station. I bought 5 gallons of it recently.

cyccommute, thanks for the info. I had no idea that Simple Green was so basic. I'll probably start using more care, though I have done hub overhauls with my bare hands alternately submerged in full-strength Simple Green and water for over an hour with no noticeable effects.

A pH of 10 is, like, 0.0001 M NaOH, though...I'd think that even laundry detergent is more caustic than this.

The EPA seems basically OK with skin contact:

"SIMPLE GREEN® is safe for use on skin and will not cause irritation in the majority of users. Avoid contact with eyes, irritation may result. Wear splash goggles or full face-shield and have eye washing equipment available in areas where potential is high for eye contact. No special precautions or additional protective equipment are required during handling or use." (from epa.gov)

Mix it with 409. Makes it better.

What I want to know is where are you finding Kerosene for that price. I think the last time I checked a gallon was around $8 (In a bottle as I don't know of any gas stations that have a kerosene pump anymore).

I haven't used it, but lamp oil, citronella, etc are all various grades of kerosene. If you can't handle the smell of diesel or kerosene; maybe some mulberry lamp oil is the way to go........fung shui, aroma therapy and bike wrenching....it don't get nooooo better......:thumb:

I'm not qualified to debate the safety of one chemical vs. another but I use mineral spirits in a half filled Gatorade bottle for my chains. After fishing the clean chain out of the mineral spirits, I wipe it down and hang it to dry. Next, I use a coffee filter in a funnel to transfer the used mineral spirits to a second bottle and it's ready to go again. I dispose of the coffee filter by burning it (my favorite part of the process). I've been using the same 1/2 quart of mineral spirits for almost five years now.

I've also used this same 1/2 quart in a pie pan to clean disassembled cassettes and hub components then filter it back into the bottle.

Mix it with 409. Makes it better.

Don't know about this mix in particular, but in general, mixing chemicals is a bad idea, unless you really know what you're doing. Chemical reactions are unpredictable, and can release some pretty bad fumes (chlorine, etc.).:(

I've been using the same 1/2 quart of mineral spirits for almost five years now.


Mineral spirits for me too. I keep mine in a coffee can (with a plastic lid) and a colander-type thing inside (which I salvaged from an old can of carburator cleaner (that stuff stinks to high heaven!). Parts go in the colander and into the spirits for a soak and a swirl every few minutes. If that doesn't remove everything (which it usually does), I brush the parts with a disposable paintbrush. Lift out the colander, and dump the parts on newspaper to dry.

When the gunk gets too deep in the can, I decant the liquid into a temporary container, wipe out the gunk with paper towels, and pour the liquid back in.

This method limits the evaporative and landfill waste, and does a great job cleaning.

I do use SG for wheels, frame, or anything too big to fit in the coffee can.

Don't know about this mix in particular, but in general, mixing chemicals is a bad idea, unless you really know what you're doing. Chemical reactions are unpredictable, and can release some pretty bad fumes (chlorine, etc.).:(

Yeah, I know. 'Been doing it for 15 years. 'Makes a superb hand cleaner as well. Simple Green is organic. 'Nothing to react with. It works.

My recollection is "detergent". Last week, cleaned new Shimano chain in kitchen sink with hot water and ordinary dish soap. Worked okay.

happy trails.

I'm using petrol, but only because I've got some in the garage for the lawnmower. It's pretty effective. Price isn't really too much of a problem when you're only using less than 100ml at a time. And I got drenched in the stuff when I worked as a mechanic and I'm still here to tell the tale, so it's not particularly unsafe I'd say.

Not too concerned about the fire risk, can someone tell me where the fire risk is in a garage without electricity or naked flames??

I have used a cleaner in the UK called 'Greenline' or some such, it was very effective (you mixed 2 parts water to 1 part cleaner) but also very very expensive: £10/litre or thereabouts. It claimed it was 'safe' to dispose of after use though.

I'm definitely going to try the coffee filter trick to clean used solvents after use - nice tip.

Acetone is nasty stuff, personally I wouldn't touch it unless there was something really stubborn to clean up. Diesel stinks, it's bad enough filling up a car let alone bathing your bike in it.

Sometimes I use paintbrush cleaner which is pretty mild.

If you don't have a chain cleaner, use a plastic bottle 1/3rd full of solvent (you choose), remove your chain, place it in the bottle, screw on the lid and shake it up. Works pretty well.

I use simple green or similar stuff for cleaning gunk off the bike and cleaning out the hub races. Also note that if you have a shop monkey (aka kid aka child) simple green is the only alternative.

As to cleaning chains I used to just leave them in a can of oil heated a bit. Stainless steel + wax is something I am experimenting with, no problems so far. These days I have been using the only method the late great Sheldon Brown recommended. Definately the best way for those you really care about their bikes. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

These days I have been using the only method the late great Sheldon Brown recommended. Definately the best way for those you really care about their bikes. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

I use that same method, except I use a full-head hood instead of the goggles and respirator . . .

Actually, I use Orange Blast, a citrus-based degreaser you can get at WalMart or Target or AutoZone, etc. It's $3 for a BIG bottle. Most of the citrus-based cleaners seem to be the same, I would almost bet money they are all made in the same factory and the only difference is the label (and the cost).

I started using it when I found out how well it took road tar off an automobile finish - much better than the DuPont Formula Seven I had been using for years, and which has a warning label a mile long. Just follow the label and wash everything with clean water afterwards. It rinses right off.

As for chains, the only info I can contribute is that the Reach brand toothbrushes have bristles that last forever.

Again, maybe not the best, but I have used old 'stale' gas as a degreaser when working on small engine parts. Once the light volatiles are gone, the flash danger is low. The other thing that has worked is WD-40, probably because it has a high kerosene content. Same with a little home heating oil (basically diesel / and a less refined form of kerosene).

Acetone might be a bit too aggressive for bicycle cleaning.

Makes for a great buzz tho! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Acetone however is flammable as all getout. I'd use kerosene personally. I use Simple Green for a lot of stuff, but it is really caustic to aluminum. US Air Force found that out the hard way..

-R