Okay, broke spoke #3 on the LHT today and have NO IDEA how. I've been spinning more lately, and been walking it over obstacles such as rough terrain and train tracks. Spokes 1 and 2 popped right about in a row, and both at the nipple. This one was at the hub, and did it 16 miles outside of town on a limestone path (trust me, obscenities flew). The shop is even baffled, as the wheelset is danged tough - Alex Adventurer 36h rim laced to a 36h Deore XT hub with DT Swiss spokes. Their thought is a bad batch of spokes, and they're rebuilding it with new spokes and doing the head washer thing as well.
Anyway, I'm just really damned frustrated. I bought the LHT mainly because of the wheelset, and the constant wheel problems I had with the Trek FX - so I feel both annoyed, and a bit like an ass for telling my wife this was "the one". We didn't necessarily need the extra $1k, but it sure would have gone to use somewhere in the family budget.
My shop, OTOH, is awesome. They have 0 to blame here, in fact if anything, they're going out of their way to make it better.
I'm going to ride my Hardrock for the next week, and hope the rear wheel on it holds together for that time period - the rim is cracked pretty decently, but aside from that it's in primo shape.
A thought that enters my mind is to just park the LHT until I'm under 300lbs, which is frustrating as well. Am I just too big for bicycles? It seems I'm the only one who has this constant battle with spoke breakage, and nobody can "get it".
Uggh.. very annoying, sorry, just had to vent!
Wogsterca
06-07-08, 06:37 PM
Okay, broke spoke #3 on the LHT today and have NO IDEA how. I've been spinning more lately, and been walking it over obstacles such as rough terrain and train tracks. Spokes 1 and 2 popped right about in a row, and both at the nipple. This one was at the hub, and did it 16 miles outside of town on a limestone path (trust me, obscenities flew). The shop is even baffled, as the wheelset is danged tough - Alex Adventurer 36h rim laced to a 36h Deore XT hub with DT Swiss spokes. Their thought is a bad batch of spokes, and they're rebuilding it with new spokes and doing the head washer thing as well.
Anyway, I'm just really damned frustrated. I bought the LHT mainly because of the wheelset, and the constant wheel problems I had with the Trek FX - so I feel both annoyed, and a bit like an ass for telling my wife this was "the one". We didn't necessarily need the extra $1k, but it sure would have gone to use somewhere in the family budget.
My shop, OTOH, is awesome. They have 0 to blame here, in fact if anything, they're going out of their way to make it better.
I'm going to ride my Hardrock for the next week, and hope the rear wheel on it holds together for that time period - the rim is cracked pretty decently, but aside from that it's in primo shape.
A thought that enters my mind is to just park the LHT until I'm under 300lbs, which is frustrating as well. Am I just too big for bicycles? It seems I'm the only one who has this constant battle with spoke breakage, and nobody can "get it".
Uggh.. very annoying, sorry, just had to vent!
Could be a bad batch of spokes, kudos for your shop for rebuilding the wheel, if they are really good, they will up the tension a little as well. BTW I would suggest getting a new rim for the Hardrock, it would make a great foul weather bike :D
Askel
06-07-08, 06:38 PM
Am I just too big for bicycles? It seems I'm the only one who has this constant battle with spoke breakage, and nobody can "get it".
If it's any consolation, no- you're not the only one. I popped another spoke on my Hoss last weekend. And I'm only 205.
Don't know what to say though. By all accounts, that should be a bomb proof wheel setup. Let's hope it's just a defective part in there someplace.
Richard_Rides
06-07-08, 06:46 PM
I used to pop so many spokes each ride sounded like a harp recital. I weighed 250 at the time. I had the LBS rebuild the wheels with beefy rims and spokes and I've never broken one since. However, you're riding the pack mule of bicycles and I would not expect this, something is wrong here but sounds like the LBS is on top of it.
Another reason to buy from the LBS and not off the Internet...
idig
06-07-08, 06:59 PM
This is discouraging. I used to pop spokes all the time when I was LIGHTER. My weight caused me to switch to the mountain bike exclusively a few years ago. I have about 2,000 miles on my Big Sur, and never popped a spoke. Like you, I figured the LHT wheels were going to last me for a bit. I'm down to about 290 now, but these wheels should hold well over 300 without complaining. Sorry you are having so many wheel issues. I hope your LBS can get the problem resolved.
Mr. Beanz
06-07-08, 07:05 PM
700 wheels? Stock wheels or handbuilt by the shop?
One thing is ditch the Alex rim! I've only seen poor reviews. Make sure they use DT Swiss spokes. Had some LBS jerk substitute 4 spokes on my tandem wheel. 2 broke! Replaced with DT and retensioned myself, no further problems with a combined weight of 420 lbs.
If it was handbuilt by the shop guy, I'd find another builder. Working in a shop does not mean you are a good builder. I know by experience, several failed wheels till I started building and maintaining myself.
If he moreless overhauled the new machine built rim by hand, then use better spokes than what came with the stock wheel. DT Swiss.
If it broke at the hub, not enough tension. The maintenance guy's fault. If it broke at the nipples, binding spokes, maintenance guy again!
That's one thing a shop guy will not do. I place a mark on each spoke while working or building a wheel. I make sure when I turn the nipple, the spoke does not bind by keeping my eye on the mark (Sharpie Pen).
I've had wheels that I thought were fine. Shop guy says,"I trued the wheel for you" I know I'm SCREWED! I took it in to have the BB tightened but they seem to go straight for the wheels! had several break a ride or two after being in the shop. Maybe they meant well but keep your hands off the wheels! Guys twist and turn spokes but not many watch what they are doing. If the wheel is straight, it looks good!
I won't let anyone touch my wheels anymore, 14,000 miles later, must have been a good call!
Mr. Beanz
06-07-08, 07:08 PM
Sounds as if they are treating you right though! But dam, I wanna ride my bike! Sometimes you have to be firm eventhough they are being nice! Nice doesn't build a good wheel!
You could go online for a pro builder. Only problem is when you need the retension at 200 you've got to go to the same niceguy!:(
Maybe some guy around you has nice bikes and maintains them himself, including the wheels. Make friends with the guy and have him build a wheel for you with some TLC!
Wish I could but then the maintenace would be done by another. Something happens, then I'm to blame!:(....Hey, move to California!:D
v1k1ng1001
06-07-08, 07:11 PM
I had a pair of deep section cxp30s with ultegra rims. Rode them hard for years and they are still great.
On the other hand, I've had to rebuilt my mtb rear wheel several times. Last year I absolutely destroyed my Bontrager wheel that was barely a year old. Thankfully Trek warrantied it.
I weigh about 220-225. Wheel woes come and go. Rebuild it as strongly as you can and keep dropping weight. Eventually you'll achieve a balance between your riding style and your hardware.
The LHT is a good base to be working from. I am still jealous of your bike btw! :beer:
ban guzzi
06-07-08, 07:11 PM
crappy...
Bad spokes? Thats the problem I had and the LBS hand laced that wheel set with DT Swiss spokes. I don't recall what your running but I'm using XT disc hubs and Mavic 317 wheels, if that helps any...
Good luck to you!
by the bye~ My Wheel builder said that it was most likely a bad spoke batch since they popped at the wheel and not the hub. They also built my fixed wheel and its a narrow 1" touring rim.
Actually, all my wheels are 32 spoke and hand laced.
No problems since...*fingers crossed*
v1k1ng1001
06-07-08, 07:13 PM
700 wheels? Stock wheels or handbuilt by the shop?
One thing is ditch the Alex rim! I've only seen poor reviews. Make sure they use DT Swiss spokes. Had some LBS jerk substitute 4 spokes on my tandem wheel. 2 broke! Replaced with DT and retensioned myself, no further problems with a combined weight of 420 lbs.
If it was handbuilt by the shop guy, I'd find another builder. Working in a shop does not mean you are a good builder. I know by experience, several failed wheels till I started building and maintaining myself.
If he moreless overhauled the new machine built rim by hand, then use better spokes than what came with the stock wheel. DT Swiss.
If it broke at the hub, not enough tension. The maintenance guy's fault. If it broke at the nipples, binding spokes, maintenance guy again!
That's one thing a shop guy will not do. I place a mark on each spoke while working or building a wheel. I make sure when I turn the nipple, the spoke does not bind by keeping my eye on the mark (Sharpie Pen).
I've had wheels that I thought were fine. Shop guy says,"I trued the wheel for you" I know I'm SCREWED! I took it in to have the BB tightened but they seem to go straight for the wheels! had several break a ride or two after being in the shop. Maybe they meant well but keep your hands off the wheels! Guys twist and turn spokes but not many watch what they are doing. If the wheel is straight, it looks good!
I won't let anyone touch my wheels anymore, 14,000 miles later, must have been a good call!
This is a good point. The aforementioned Cxp30s were put together by a friend who was an elite mechanic. Not all techs are skilled in the art of building and maintaining wheels.
bdinger
06-07-08, 07:14 PM
Could be a bad batch of spokes, kudos for your shop for rebuilding the wheel, if they are really good, they will up the tension a little as well. BTW I would suggest getting a new rim for the Hardrock, it would make a great foul weather bike :D
Oh the Hardrock is getting rebuilt with a wheel that I don't think I can even hurt. It's going to have a Salsa Gordo rim (saw one, held one, !!!! are they extreme!), 36h Deore or LX hub, and 36 DT Swiss Alpine III spokes. Again, if I can hurt that wheel, I'll even be surprised! It's going to be my foul weather/non-pavement bike, as it does both very, very, very well!
If it's any consolation, no- you're not the only one. I popped another spoke on my Hoss last weekend. And I'm only 205.
Don't know what to say though. By all accounts, that should be a bomb proof wheel setup. Let's hope it's just a defective part in there someplace.
Yeouch, that stinks. I'm glad I'm not alone, but wouldn't wish the constant spoke issues on anyone - they stink!
I used to pop so many spokes each ride sounded like a harp recital. I weighed 250 at the time. I had the LBS rebuild the wheels with beefy rims and spokes and I've never broken one since. However, you're riding the pack mule of bicycles and I would not expect this, something is wrong here but sounds like the LBS is on top of it.
Another reason to buy from the LBS and not off the Internet...
You hit it on the head. From now on I'm even going to order parts through them, I may save a tiny bit by going with Nashbar or JensonUSA, but the service they provide I plan to continue to support. Great bunch of folks, and they earn my business more and more with every transaction.
This is discouraging. I used to pop spokes all the time when I was LIGHTER. My weight caused me to switch to the mountain bike exclusively a few years ago. I have about 2,000 miles on my Big Sur, and never popped a spoke. Like you, I figured the LHT wheels were going to last me for a bit. I'm down to about 290 now, but these wheels should hold well over 300 without complaining. Sorry you are having so many wheel issues. I hope your LBS can get the problem resolved.
Yeah, I don't know what the deal is, but it's pretty frustrating to be honest! I'm thinking I just got a bad one, and then it compounded from there. Let me know how it goes for you, but I'm just going to guess that I won't have any problems once the wheel is rebuilt. Spoke 1 didn't pop until about 300 miles, which is insane considering it was a machine-built wheel, my last 700c machine built wheel popped spoke 1 at mile.. 20 :).
zonatandem
06-07-08, 07:17 PM
Get some 48-spoke wheels built . . .
bdinger
06-07-08, 07:20 PM
Sounds as if they are treating you right though! But dam, I wanna ride my bike! Sometimes you have to be firm eventhough they are being nice! Nice doesn't build a good wheel!
You could go online for a pro builder. Only problem is when you need the retension at 200 you've got to go to the same niceguy!:(
Maybe some guy around you has nice bikes and maintains them himself, including the wheels. Make friends with the guy and have him build a wheel for you with some TLC!
Wish I could but then the maintenace would be done by another. Something happens, then I'm to blame!:(....Hey, move to California!:D
These were machine built in taiwan or wherever QBP/Surly contracts to have them built. The LBS did check 'em before I got them, and thought they should be fine after checking the tension/true repeatedly. This time, though, the wrench who rebuilt the wheel on the Trek the third time (and the final time, that build lasted about 700 miles before I finally sold the bike) is going to be working on this one. He's not even going to mess with pre-cut spokes this time, he's cutting them himself and doing it the hard way. GREAT guy, and he's really meticulous about the wheel build - even using head washers, which I'm told are a PAIN.
I'm also going to go in when he's done and ask for some advice on truing/etc so I can start doing some of that stuff myself. In reality, though, I think once he builds it I should be in good shape. If not, I'm going to go with some Deep-V's. I had great luck with Alex rims on my Hardrock, and have heard mixed reviews on others, but am hopeful.
Fun times, I tell ya Beanz! One of these days, though, I'll listen to you and build a set of Deep-V's! :D
bdinger
06-07-08, 07:25 PM
This is a good point. The aforementioned Cxp30s were put together by a friend who was an elite mechanic. Not all techs are skilled in the art of building and maintaining wheels.
+10000000
The first wheel built for my Trek was built by a great guy at the LBS, but it started popping spokes a couple hundred miles later. Then I took it back, and he said "yeah, I'll have our resident expert build the next one..". He built it, and it lasted quite a while - in fact, until I finally sold the bike. Very proud of his work, you can tell, and that's the kind of person you want to do a wheel build.
Mr. Beanz
06-07-08, 07:44 PM
Cool! Sounds like the shop guy is taking very good care of you. The rims should be ok since the spokes snapped at the nipple. But make sure the dude uses good spokes. I use 14 straight 3, it works for me eventhough some say butted are better at abosrbing flex.
One thing I would do is tell the shop guy, in a nice way," you know, I read on Sheldon Brown's site that the trailing spokes should be on the inside of the hub flange for extra durability and reinforcement on the drive side. Also heard a few clydes talk about it":p
Sheldon rec's it and it's worked for me. I've checked some of the wheels the guys at the shop built and the DID NOT do it! And one wheel on a new bike we have!:eek:...I listen to Sheldon!:D
Incase you're not sure what I'm talking about. The spokes that are laced in the direction more less pointing towards the back are called trailing spokes. The spokes that point to the front are leading spokes. According to Sheldon, the trailing spokes take most of the torque. If they are laced so that the hooks section lays against the inside of the hub, it acts as support agains flexing for these abused spokesresulting in a stronger wheel.:D.....If he's good he'll know. If not, maybe he'll look it up!:D
Mr. Beanz
06-07-08, 07:56 PM
Trailing spokes (seem to aim towards the rear of the bike)
Should be on the inside of the hub flange (drive side)... for extra support.
I have seen some built by pro shops without such condition. Wheel didn't do very well!:D
jaxgtr
06-07-08, 10:57 PM
Bd, what a bummer. I agree on dumping the Alex rims, I had all sorts of issues with mine and when I got my new hybrid wheels, Mavic, I immediately had them relaced with 14g strait spokes before I even used them. I have not broken a spoke in 18 months. I had the same guy build my Deep V's.
Good luck as I know the frustration you feel, I was there.
Harry Stone
06-08-08, 12:01 AM
:( I'm sorry to hear it, I hope you get it worked out.
CliftonGK1
06-08-08, 09:17 AM
I can't immediately blame things on the Adventurer rims. Reinforced, double-walled, eyeletted rims should hold up just fine if the wheels are properly built and tensioned.
I'd say it's either a bad batch of spokes or the machine building and the shop may not have initially done any work to the wheels aside from checking for trueness.
I've got the stock Alex DA16 32h/ 14g DT spokes/ Deore hubs setup on my Cross Check and I've never broken a spoke. My LBS de/re-tensioned the wheels when they came in, so that probably helped. I've only had to true them once in 1800 miles, and I ride some pretty crummy rough roads.
Glad to hear that you have a shop which will work with you to fix the problem. That's always a big help when dealing with this kind of frustration. If you do give up on the Adventurer rim, consider the Mavic T520 as a replacement.
idig
06-08-08, 09:39 AM
Yeah, I don't know what the deal is, but it's pretty frustrating to be honest! I'm thinking I just got a bad one, and then it compounded from there. Let me know how it goes for you, but I'm just going to guess that I won't have any problems once the wheel is rebuilt. Spoke 1 didn't pop until about 300 miles, which is insane considering it was a machine-built wheel, my last 700c machine built wheel popped spoke 1 at mile.. 20 :).
I'll keep you posted. I'm up to about 225 miles as of this morning. I'm not really having any glaring issues, but I'm probably going to take the LHT in this week for a shakedown tweak. Based on Mr. Beanz's comments, I'm not sure I want them to check the tension on my wheels.
I'm a firm believer that wheels need to be built differently to suit both weight and riding style. The amount of force that a strong clyde can put on a wheel is amazing. I think if you find a wheel builder who happens to be a clyde who rides the way you do, pay him whatever it takes.