Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - @#$%! Dogs!

Consider the implications of that argument for just a second and you find it's a justification for not only species-ism but racism as well.

I call Godwin.

Bear spray.
It's concentrated pepper spray, and instead of a stream (like most personal protection mace canisters fire) it puts out a fog of the stuff. You can point it backwards and leave a fog trail like Spy Hunter. Anything running through that should come to an abrupt halt.

You get chased by bears? If I had anything more dangerous in my riding area than bunny rabbits I might be a faster rider.

Consider the implications of that argument for just a second and you find it's a justification for not only species-ism but racism as well. It wasn't so long ago that society viewed blacks as inferior to dogs, and any mistreatment was inconsequential so long as property wasn't destroyed. It didn't work as a justification then and it doesn't work now.

But there are sacrifices I am willing to make IF the ethical goodness overwhelms the negatives, or if the least amount of harm is done. It does sadden me to know that some things have to die so that others may live, but I accept it and move on as a fact of life. Yet when there is no point to the violence or cruelty, where the end result is only pain, that is something a society must stand against. Casual disregard for animals (which we are) such that you would immediately reach for the extinguishing of their life instead of taking less drastic measures first is another thing society cannot tolerate.

There are times when action of an intense nature are warranted, I never denied that. I just find it ridiculous that some people take such decisions lightly and even intend for murder to be the first option before all other options have been exhausted.


How can you? We are both sentient and instinctive, and the terms aren't mutually exclusive. Anyone with any experience with dogs will tell you that they are capable of caring. Anyone who has ever rescued an animal (as I have) knows that they can suffer, and still be cured. They can pick up on subtle hints such as body cues and even smells to tell when a person is sick or emotionally distressed and attempt to comfort them. Anecdotally there are countless examples where dogs knew their masters were dying and started acting peculiarly, such as jumping on the bed when that wasn't the norm.




If you can justify treating an animal as inconsequential because you feel there is no capacity for suffering, then what stops you from feeling indifferent towards a person who may be incapable of the same?

I have pets i love dogs. if it was me on the bike path in this situation i would likely be with my kids and unable to out run this attack.
What is your recomendation?

The OP was in danger he / she is LUCKY he was able to out pace the dogs. In my mind this is not somuch a case of animal cruelty but survival.

I decided to take my MTB to my parents house a couple weeks back. They live in a rual area an di thought it would be cool to ride on some of the old abandoned railroad tracks. Same thing happened to me, I passed this driveway thats surrounded by woods and here they came...i know the people because my parents have lived next to them for over 20 years. The one was a pit for sure..they have always owned pits and the other was a mutt about a 90lb mutt. Thankfully i passed them when i was fresh and it was a slight up hill grade..they tired in about 100 yards. I rode my old railroad tracks and came back...they did not have a chance this time..I was on a downhill slope and i knew they were there. I passed the driveways at almost 30mph...they made about 3 steps and said screw it and laid back down waiting for the next car or person to pass.

Dogs dont bother me a whole lot. Ive only had one real bad incident where i got off the bike and used the bike as a sheild and kept whacking the dog with the back wheel.

Consider the implications of that argument for just a second and you find it's a justification for not only species-ism but racism as well. It wasn't so long ago that society viewed blacks as inferior to dogs, and any mistreatment was inconsequential so long as property wasn't destroyed. It didn't work as a justification then and it doesn't work now.

Holy Godwin, way to play the race card.

Let me put this in terms you can understand, humans > dogs. Call me a specisit if you must, but a dogs life is not on par with a humans. In many parts of the world dogs are food, I view dogs as slightly more entertaining cow. I don't like to see them suffer and many people do not deserve to have them, I also feel negligent owners should have harsher punishments but nobody cares what I feel.

In many parts of the world dogs are food, I view dogs as slightly more entertaining cow. I don't like to see them suffer and many people do not deserve to have them, I also feel negligent owners should have harsher punishments but nobody cares what I feel.

There's the answer. When chased by a dog, never mind the pepper spray, just eat it.

Wow
Shoot a dog? That is way out of control.

.

Depends on the dog in question.......

There can be circumstances that warrant it. I would have shot the dog that nearly cost my friend's life two weeks ago (had I been armed)

I have 2 dogs and love all animals. But I also enjoy hunting and put the best dog in the world below the least of the human race.

This is not popular but works well. Wasp spray has a 25 to 30 ft streamline spray that is highly accurate. It cost less than a dollar and fits well in a water bottle cage. Wrap with duct tape and it doesn't rattle. A 1 to 2 sec spray will not have any long term damage to a dog. It stops them in their tracks and they remember it for a couple of months usually. Its not for everyone but it works.

I posted this in the recent commuter forum thread on dogs, but by searching this site I was only able to come up with 5 topics in which people posted and said they were bitten by dogs, so it doesn;t seem like a common occurrence for chasers to actually bite. In half the cases, the dogs were being walked by the owners on a MUP, and one was even on a leash.

In all cases, the cyclist did not stop or yell/interact with the dog in any way. From this, I am gathering that in most cases, the dog won't actually bite you, and if you don't want to get bitten it is better to either stop or yell at the dog. Aggressive behavior toward the dog may provoke it.

Holy Godwin, way to play the race card.

Let me put this in terms you can understand, humans > dogs. Call me a specisit if you must, but a dogs life is not on par with a humans. In many parts of the world dogs are food, I view dogs as slightly more entertaining cow. I don't like to see them suffer and many people do not deserve to have them, I also feel negligent owners should have harsher punishments but nobody cares what I feel.

+1 When the dog evolves opposable thumbs then I will wonder if it is on the same level as us.

has anyone thought of any other less lethal options for battling dogs. for instance a air horn. for what ever reason i had one and a dog chased my friend and i while we were mountain biking and when that dog heard that horn it high tailed it out of there. only tried it once but worked great.

my buddie got chased by a dog off its leash and he stopped and the thing attacked him. the owner did nothing and he ended up hitting the dog with his bike then booting that sob like a football. the owner called the police and he almost got arrested for cruelty. luckly a witness was around and the owner of that dog and 2 other owners with dogs with her got $5000 fines for unleashed dogs in a state park. the lady had the nerve to argue(more like yelling) with the officer about the leash law saying its ok to have it off the leash and there is no leash law right in front of a "all dogs must be leashed" sign. :thumb:

the next week my buddie went back to the same park and the same lady with the same dog off its leash chased him again and he let it follow him for a good mile ish before he decided to lose it. he happen to ride by her later and that lady let him know how fun it was for "large" frame woman to walk and get her dog. he simply replied go ahead and let it chase me again off the leash and ill help you get another $5k fine. imagine how happy she was:roflmao2: the dog was medium sized mutt. that thing chased me once and i wasnt stopping for nobody. that thing was vicious.

I can't believe this discussion have evolved into a "speci-ism" to "eat the dog" and "shoot the dog"

As cyclist, we should always follow a certain protocol, including carrying a defensive items that will help each one of us. I love animals and own couple of them who are like our family member. But its my family member and I have no idea how it will react to other/stranger.

Also, there were lots of this seemed to worked or that seem to work for some. Stop that - its an animal (or its someones family member who don't know you) and you just don't know how it will react. It will only take one incident to get yourself and ultimately the animal in harms way. So just ride away as fast as possible and call the animal control at later point.

In my own situation, I have a "halt" (pepper spray) mounted on my handlebar and I also carry "Dazer II" - which is a sonic dog halter (don't always work, but its more humane than pepper spray). I happen to ride where there are tons of dogs. Most don't come near the road/me to be a concern, but some do. In that case, I just get ready with the Dazer II (but still pedaling hard) and only had to use twice. Luckly, I didn't have to use the "halt" at all.

Again, be always prepare for dogs (as much as you worry about having a flat fix material) and you'll be all right. And for all the animal lovers - shouting about how precious each animal is and how others don't understand don't help with people who don't know much about animal.

You get chased by bears? If I had anything more dangerous in my riding area than bunny rabbits I might be a faster rider.

I had a cougar run out in front of me last week, and quite a few of the roads I do my distance ride on have the "recent bear and cougar sighting" signs at the hiking trailheads right off the roadside. While I haven't seen a bear, they're out there. Heck, even a few local residential areas here have had bear and cougar problems.

Dogs I'm not so worried about. Cougars, bears, deer (during rut, because the bulls are more likely to charge), and moose (just because they're big and stupid) are my real wildlife concerns when I'm out on long rides, especially at night.

I had a cougar run out in front of me last week, and quite a few of the roads I do my distance ride on have the "recent bear and cougar sighting" signs at the hiking trailheads right off the roadside. While I haven't seen a bear, they're out there. Heck, even a few local residential areas here have had bear and cougar problems.

Dogs I'm not so worried about. Cougars, bears, deer (during rut, because the bulls are more likely to charge), and moose (just because they're big and stupid) are my real wildlife concerns when I'm out on long rides, especially at night.

Same thing here on the "western" frontrange in Colorado.

I had a cougar run out in front of me last week, and quite a few of the roads I do my distance ride on have the "recent bear and cougar sighting" signs at the hiking trailheads right off the roadside. While I haven't seen a bear, they're out there. Heck, even a few local residential areas here have had bear and cougar problems.

Dogs I'm not so worried about. Cougars, bears, deer (during rut, because the bulls are more likely to charge), and moose (just because they're big and stupid) are my real wildlife concerns when I'm out on long rides, especially at night.


I about hit a rabbit one day... you win...:D:D

I about hit a rabbit one day... you win...:D:D

I worry more when I see a rabbit. Suicide bunnies seem to travel in groups of 3 to 5, and you don't know when the next one is going to make a break for your front wheel... at least with the cougar it was just one, and it looked as freaked out about seeing me as I was at seeing him.

I worry more when I see a rabbit. Suicide bunnies seem to travel in groups of 3 to 5, and you don't know when the next one is going to make a break for your front wheel... at least with the cougar it was just one, and it looked as freaked out about seeing me as I was at seeing him.

On Saturdays, I ride around White Rock Lake in Dallas. Have to deal with the kamikaze squirrels out there!

David

Shoot the squirrels. They make a nice stew with red wine.
Bar-b-q the dogs.
Bears, cougars, ... smother yourself with chilly sauce.

Bears prefer Strawberry Jam to Chilisauce. ;)
Chili is too spicy.

Shoot the squirrels. They make a nice stew with red wine.
Bar-b-q the dogs.
Bears, cougars, ... smother yourself with chilly sauce.

Bears prefer Strawberry Jam to Chilisauce. ;)
Chili is too spicy.

Not for grizzly bears. They'll steal your bear spray and hose you down with it as a condiment before devouring you.

to prevent dog attack, get off the bike or slow down at the time you see dogs ahead. do not look at them. if they are already chasing you, it is risky to stop and negotiate, also looking at dogs eyes is not a good option because it means a challenge. city dogs may give up then mainly because human is taller. city dogs relatively easily as they dont have a good reason to attack, you can get rid of them by pretending to grabbing and throwing a rock. however t if you face a cattle dog, or an area guarding dog, it will %100 bite you. unless you get out their land before.

first do not kick the dog. it wont do any good. if you ever attack the dog be sure that you will hurt it bad. otherwise youd be just encouraging them.

-while the dog chasing you near your bike. you may be able to realize if it is running for fun or to bite.

-if the dog is only howling, or pretending an attack while both you are on ground dont panic. it is just alarming.

-if it also makes a grrr there is higher probablilty of attack.

-only grr means prepare for attack. if it also shows its teeth, %100 attack

-if dogs jumps and tries to knock you down you are in greater danger, do whatever you can.

know what type of dog you are faced. fighting breds (pitbull) are easier to avoid, but they wont give up the fight. guarding dogs(doberman) are less likely to attack, bigger shepherd dog are harder to avoid but they may give up if you hurt them.

horns, sprays, air guns, guns, knives or better katanas :P may help you during your trips.

Barbecue-dog is tough, greasy, and gamey. Not bad really - if you're really hungry. Stewed-dog, with dog-stock from their broken bones and fresh vegetables, slow-cooked - is very good! Ol' Towser is very tender this way. Tastes much like veal.

If it was from a dog that attacked you off it's land, then it was the owner's fault for legal certain. Make a nice vest from it's pelt (Google how to cure skins), and send it to it's owner as a thank you for the dinner. They'll keep their next mutt on a chain.

With 3 dogs,I'd do what you did.It will be the last thing they chase.If the dog(s) that chase are big enough that I think they can do bodily harm to me,they going to have a bad day.

I've done right things and wrong things when dogs come after me:

As a teen, when commuting to high school each day, I had to ride past a house where the fellow on the porch would send his dog to "get me" whenever he saw me. The dog seemed to intend me malice, probably as a result of his owner. Usually, I outran him and avoided the issue. Some days I soaked him with the water bottle and that slowed him enough to escape. The thing that stopped him was when he misjudged his attack on me one morning and I ran into/ over him; falling onto him and somehow trapping him between the front wheel and frame with my body weight on top of him. He never bothered me again....

When I lived in Stockton, Ca., I worked with a fellow who used to be a locomotive eng. He told me cats run across a track, panic and try to get back to the starting side...and thus get killed. Dogs turn and run directly away from the train...down the tracks, and end up dead. That in mind, I got set upon by a great dane one morning. I barely escaped being taken down. The next day I took another street into the area he lived in and came around a corner to find him waiting and watching for me coming the other way. Loudly I barked and growled at him and startled him. He took off running down the length of the street with me in hot pursuit, barking madly at him. It was very foggy and damp, and he ran off the road into the wet grass on the side of the road where he slipped and fell into the shallow ditch. The next day I rode by he was in his own fenced yard and ran when I came around the corner. I often wonder what it must have looked like to see a guy with almost waist length hair, barking loudly and chasing a great dane down the road on a bicycle in the fog.....

When first I moved to Riverside, I was out for a late night ride and had a fairly bad wreck with an un-noticed curb sort of out on the open road between two towns. I bent my frame and both wheels, but the tires amazingly did not go flat. The wheels were bent so bad they were rubbing the frame as I tried to pedal my bloody self home. I was in a great deal of pain when I passed a very low life bar with a group of what appeared to be drug dealers hanging around the parking lot. One of them set his german shepard after me, who moved as if he were a trained attack dog...very aggressive and focused. I got off the bike and put it between us, and he attacked through the frame. The owner was coaching him on. Then I did the wrong thing..I swung my bike over my head in anger/ pain and hit the dog hard enough to knock him down. He yelped in fear as I pinned him down, and from somewhwere in my pain-wracked brain I heard myself scream, "What the *** is wrong with you?!?!? I am the dominant species on the planet!!!!" When I yanked the bike off him he ran away, I glared at the crowd, jumped on my warped bike and creaked off into the night.

Since then, all manner of dogs have come after me at one time of another. Sometimes groups, whatever. I have poked at them with my pump, soaked them or firmly glared at them and ordered them home. It has worked well enough without crazy stuff and injury to me or the dogs. I think it helped to remain calm and in control when things happened (unlike my earlier run ins), I believe that take it as being confident. There is a lot to be said for being a member of the dominant species on the planet....

The worst thing that ever attacked me while I was on a bicycle was a young Bobcat when I was about 11. The real problem was it's mother that thought I was doing harm to it. But that was bad summer anyway, having been attacked by a Manatee at Blue Springs earlier in the summer....

As a former Animal Control Officer (5 years on that job), I have lots of experience with both dogs and owners. I know when a dog is simply being friendly, wanting to chase, or is out for blood.

I don't trust certain breeds of dogs--and I won't get into a debate over that either guys. I don't care how "sweet" some dogs of certain breeds are, the fact is that some dogs are big enough and/or strong enough that if they wish to do some damage, they can do some SERIOUS damage, to the point of killing a human. I have worked hundreds of bite cases and know that the sweetest dog in the world can bite, even if not out of "anger" but because it's taunted, scared, whatever. When you're the one sitting in the ER being stitched up, it doesn't matter why the dog bit.

In fact, the only 2 two times I got bit on the job were both by Chihuahuas! When you simply learn to be extra careful around certain breeds, you can avoid most situations. I let my guard down around a couple of Chihuahuas 2x and got bit by the little suckers! BUT, being bit by a Chihuahua and being bit by a Pit or Akita or Chow, etc, etc, etc, are VERY DIFFERENT situations!

For the record, I love animals and have had dogs and/or cats most of my life. I currently have a 17 yr old Lab-Mix now I found as a stray (hit by car, lying on side of road with a broken back) 16 years ago who is my "child" (we have no human children). I would do serious harm to someone who tried to hurt her. But, she doesn't nor has she ever run stray or even been off-leash when outside the house.

And, one of my favorite quotes is "the more I know of humans, the better I love my dog."

Spend 5 years as an ACO, working cruelty cases, meeting evil, having to hold animals--many of them the sweetest animals you could meet--as they are injected with "blue juice", feeling the life slip out of their bodies, and their eyes watching you, and all largely becuase of human stupidity, neglect, over breeding, etc. etc. etc., spend years dealing with the resulting nightmares, and then you will see just how true that quote can be.

There were many times I deeply wished it was the owner being put down and not the dog. After 5 years, I got out before I went insane and/or homicidal.

I am a firm believer in the real presence of evil because of my time as an ACO due to encountering evil owners and horrorible cruelty cases--some of which I still have nightmares about 10 years later. I have no doubt that a few people I met had to be demonic, as I simply have problems thinking that even a human could be that evil without some kind of demonic influence. But that's a whole different area.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, only been chased while riding a few times so far.

Once, by 2 Pits that I was able to get a head start on and outpaced somehow (on my Hybrid no less!). But I was using my best/loudest/scariest Animal Control Officer yell the whole time. A car coming in the other direction that got between me and them was of tremendous help, too! I haven't been down that road since.

Another time, a Pit-Mix came out of nowhere, no barking or anything, he was just there at my rear tire. I had to hit 25mph (on my Trek road bike) before I lost him. I have no doubt he would have done more than just "bite" if he could have gotten me off my bike. A dog that isn't barking is often a sign that it's been trained to fight/attack or had the bark surgically silenced--often for the same purposes. That dog was not in it for the chase, I will swear by that. No way would I have dismounted the bike to confront it.

There's also 2 dogs on one road I no longer go near. Both mixed breeds--one a chow mix. The Chow-mix is VERY aggressive and has nearly bit me--grabbed my sock the very first time I rode by that way. This was when I was still riding my Hybrid. I kicked him that time and got him off me. I tried that route one more time. That time he came after me again and again was attempting to bite. He was on one side--his buddy (not as aggressive) got on the other side of the bike. I kept pedaling FAST but I had some Bear Spray with me left over from my DH's Yukon trip a few years ago. I grabbed that from my bag and sprayed him. STOPPED HIM DEAD IN HIS TRACKS! His buddy seemed to lose interest at that, too.

I've avoided that road since then.

I seriously need to get more Pepper Spray but would tote the Bear Spray again on my Road bike, if the can wasn't so big. But Pepper Spray is not always effective on dogs. I had it issued at an ACO, used it often but found it not always great. If you can get it directly into their mouths, that's the best.

This Bear Spray though! It came out in a HUGE CLOUD with about 15 ft. or more in length. And, it smelled VERY POWERFUL. Even made me cough a bit and I was moving away as I sprayed it.

I have also considered getting an ASP (expendable baton) to carry. I used that as an ACO a few times, and it is effective. And, no, it won't kill a dog unless you fully intend to use it to do that. You can strike a dog with just enough force to discourage it.

My DH is nearly demanding I get a light weight pistol to tote with me. Being a woman, riding on very lonely rural roads, he has other concerns for me than just dogs. I'm considering it, too. Crime in this area is increasing.

As for owners and/or Animal Control--in rural areas, both are often not good avenues to pursue for me. In my area, the AC consists of 2 part-time people who work the entire county. I have my doubts as to their effectiveness. And, I"m not from this area, so don't know "who is whose cousin"--if you know what I mean. So I'm a little hesitant to call and report in case familial relations might become involved. In the South, people are like a room full of cats: you don't mess with people until, as I heard one time, "you know whose tails are tied together."

Also, confronting owners--not an option in my opinion, depending upon where you live. Particularly as a woman, I would NEVER directly confront an owner.

Now, when I was an ACO, I toted a pistol, a baton, and Pepper Spray and had both other ACO and police radio back-up just a call away anytime. So, I had no fear of anything.

BUT, I've run into more NUTS and EVIL when talking to animal owners than I can count when I was an ACO. When you begin to confront people about their animals, the worse seems to come out of them.

Plus, being in a isolated rural area, it's not advisable to get someone ticked off at you unless you plan to move sometime soon and move far far away. And, even if you're justified in your complaints, they can still be jerks and seek revenge for you "daring" to complain about their animals.

For me, the best option has been to find a new route to avoid trouble spots. I try to use the satellite option on mapmyride.com to examine potential routes, note where the houses are, then try to drive by first to look for potentional problems--both dogs and humans! Then, will try it. If problems arise, I will avoid that route in the future.

{Edited--realized I had missed a number in the range of the bear spray--changed it to 15 ft not 5ft).

Look into Glaser Safety-Slugs for any pistol you get. These are frangible rounds that penetrate through fur and leather-jackets, but then turn into 100's of tiny lead shot. So the full muzzle-energy is expended inside the "target." Read: One shot - guaranteed knockdown even with a .22. And they won't ricochet or go through houses and kill innocent people/pets.

Best self-defense round going for small pistols.

As a former Animal Control Officer (5 years on that job), I have lots of experience with both dogs and owners. ......

My DH is nearly demanding I get a light weight pistol to tote with me. Being a woman, riding on very lonely rural roads, he has other concerns for me than just dogs. I'm considering it, too. Crime in this area is increasing.


A couple of years ago my postal worker friends in Southern California were told to not bother with pepper spray for dogs in the Mexican neighborhoods in this area. Seems the dogs liked it as a result of the table scraps they were used to, and it didn't even slow them down. I wondered if it made them hungry...:lol:

This Bear Spray though! It came out in a HUGE CLOUD with about 5 ft. or more in length. And, it smelled VERY POWERFUL. Even made me cough a bit and I was moving away as I sprayed it.



Hmmm...... bear spray. I might need to get some of that stuff.

Hmmm...... bear spray. I might need to get some of that stuff.

Hey Bonehead! VB is my hometown--that's what I worked as an ACO. Now on the Eastern Shore.

I used Bear Spray on some wolves last year on tour on the Upper Peninsula, and I guarantee you it will deter ANY Canine. JUst be sure about a couple of major things.....

1) Be sure where you aim it and the wind direction......it is stronger than milspec crowd control spray. You don't want to nail yourself. It can cause respiratory distress and or failure in a human.

2) Be sure of the laws in your state. Many places, it's illegal.

You get chased by bears? If I had anything more dangerous in my riding area than bunny rabbits I might be a faster rider.

Clorox in an extra water bottle

Bears? :twitchy: And even GRIZZLY-rip-off-your-arm-and-clean-their-teeth-with-it-BEARS?

Man, I've got to take my hat off to any cyclist who will ride anywhere knowing that an animal exists that would gladly eat you! You guys are some hearty cyclists with some enormous cajones!

I've had run-ins with dogs but would never consider shooting one. One was nearly the size of a pony so I doubt if my 9mm Glock would have stopped him anyways. :eek:

I worry about the darn groundhogs, rabbits, and raccoons running in my path and the fall or being chased by a pit bull (bad enough!)... I just can not imagine having to be on the look out for a carnivore that, as CliftonGK1 posted, would "steal your bear spray and hose you down with it as a condiment before devouring you"!

Wow! Call me a wimp but I don't want to be devoured. Makes a dog bite sound like a walk in the park!

Old but true joke

In bear country, wear bells on yur clothes and carry bear spray, unless you're in Grizzly Country. It won't even phase them.

How do you know if you're in Black or Grizz country?

A Black Bears scat will contain berry remnants and such.

A Grizzly Bear's scat will have bells and bike parts in it and will have the strong aroma of pepper spray. You might as well spray yourself, and they'll thank you for the hot sauce with dinner. ;)

Bears? :twitchy: And even GRIZZLY-rip-off-your-arm-and-clean-their-teeth-with-it-BEARS?

Man, I've got to take my hat off to any cyclist who will ride anywhere knowing that an animal exists that would gladly eat you! You guys are some hearty cyclists with some enormous cajones!

I've had run-ins with dogs but would never consider shooting one. One was nearly the size of a pony so I doubt if my 9mm Glock would have stopped him anyways. :eek:

I worry about the darn groundhogs, rabbits, and raccoons running in my path and the fall or being chased by a pit bull (bad enough!)... I just can not imagine having to be on the look out for a carnivore that, as CliftonGK1 posted, would "steal your bear spray and hose you down with it as a condiment before devouring you"!

Wow! Call me a wimp but I don't want to be devoured. Makes a dog bite sound like a walk in the park!

I then wonder how fast I had to go to outrun these dogs and check my max speed for the trip, 26mph. I’ve never gone that fast except going down hill. I also had no idea that dogs like these could run so fast.

So, what would you have done?
Jake

Nothing works on every single dog. Except the Bear spray, and that's difficult to do well unless you stop.

All three of those dogs could have topped 30 mph. Possibly 40. Unless they were sick or injured. They scared you just the way they wanted to. They were just chasing or wanted to scare you away. That's why stopping works so well. Of course one can never tell for sure, that's why the chase scares away people so effectively.
Or they did not think they could grab your foot as it was spinning fast. Some have the skill to do that. Watch a dog chase a squirrell that swerves, some can catch it in mid swerve. Lots of cyclists think they out ran medium size dogs at that speed. Maybe a toy breed, but not a medium size dog.
.......... some old greying sick dogs can top 30.

In the next town over, a police officer shot a pit bull in the skull at close range with his .38 service revolver a few years ago. It may have been a glancing shot off the side of the skull, I don't know.
The shot did not penetrate the skull and did not stop the animal. Other shots to other areas finally did.

Hey, that's pretty cool! A bunch of ex-ACO's on this forum. Here I was thinking I was the only one. If I rode through wooded areas and had to contend with a pack as the op descibed, I would consider the glaser rounds too. Their report is just a little louder than that of a pellet gun. As it stands, I commute through neighborhoods and take care of my stray problems with Halt and by calling them in to the city. When I get good and tired of any particular dog, I'll go up to the owner's house with my bike lights on and get them out of bed. Just like the good old days, eh?
Ernest

:notamused::50: Now folks don't get me wrong, I love dogs mine and others, as long as they try not to harm me or someone with me. I was a police officer at the time this happened. I had some dobermans who did the same thing on a country road every time you rode by. I drove up in my cage after an encounter,and talked to the owner of the dogs who was out in the yard. He basicly told me to kiss his bejuda. So next time I was riding with a lady who had been knocked down by the dogs once. I put her on the outside and when we came to the drive way, no one was home and here came the dogs. I pulled out my small .22 with rat shot and unloaded on the dogs. The next weekend when we drove by the dogs ran up to the road and almost killed themselfs stopping at the end of the driveway. From then on we had no more problem with them.

Pop's:50:

I just to live in Fresno and would ride out on quiet, empty farm roads. Seems like every farm house had a pack of mean dogs. The first time I encountered a large, barking, running full speed at me bunch of dogs I stopped my bike (keeping it between me and those dogs) and yelled at the top of my lungs "NO!". The dogs stopped immediately and stood checking me out. I said NO a few more times and then they turned around and went back to the house. I never worried about a dog again. I've learned if you keep riding they will chase as they see you as prey but if you stop, then that means trouble...for them. Generally I can keep pedaling but just stare them down and yell "NO"; they leave me alone!

I think it must be a guy thing to shoot at dogs. How cruel!!! 1) I don't carry guns especially on a ride and 2) us women know they are ways to talk yourself out of trouble.

a) No need to shoot dogs.
b) Species-ism? LOL I will be laughing about that for weeks, thank you.

Ever try reasoning with a pissed off redneck? It's a whole new ballgame.

It is not the dogs fault that it is running loose, it is the owners responsibility to ensure that their dogs are restrained. If they are not restrained, then they are negligent and liable for any injuries that their dog may cause. I meet the same loose dogs on many of my rides. Most come out to let you know where their yard ends and others run along because it is fun. I talk to them nicely. They are like friends. If you've ridden long, you know the difference.

But the aggressive ones that I see, get one chance. If they come out a second time I report it to the local ACOs. Yelling, squirting, kicking, stopping, etc... are all good strategies but as some of the ACOs will attest, if you mess with a persons dog, even yell at it, you may end up in a confrontation. So when you yell, squirt, or kick Billy Bobs pit bull, Good ole Billy Bob might hop into his truck and come down the road after you with a baseball bat. That is just the reality of where some of us do ride.

So to me, if a dog, baring its teeth, has me stopped and is coming at me aggressively or Billy Bob is coming at me with a baseball bat, tire iron, or more, I am in a position of potential immediate harm and I refuse to alter my riding habits because of someone elses stupidity or irresponsibility. I don't normally carry when I ride, but I can legally carry a firearm (A Makarov .380 with Hydrashocks) and I have every legal right to protect myself from coming to harm and will resort to this level only as a last resort.

I love dogs, but when instinct takes over, the nicest dog in the world can become a predator. In the case of the OP, I believe that the dogs were in a pack mentality and the best choice was to continue onward as they did.

It is also important to note that by contacting the police about an aggressive group of dogs, you have put a liability on them. If they are aware of a dangerous situation, do not act on the information, and someone gets hurt by those dogs, they bear some culpability in the matter.

Ever try reasoning with a pissed off redneck? It's a whole new ballgame.

It is not the dogs fault that it is running loose, it is the owners responsibility to ensure that their dogs are restrained. If they are not restrained, then they are negligent and liable for any injuries that their dog may cause. I meet the same loose dogs on many of my rides. Most come out to let you know where their yard ends and others run along because it is fun. I talk to them nicely. They are like friends. If you've ridden long, you know the difference.

But the aggressive ones that I see, get one chance. If they come out a second time I report it to the local ACOs. Yelling, squirting, kicking, stopping, etc... are all good strategies but as some of the ACOs will attest, if you mess with a persons dog, even yell at it, you may end up in a confrontation. So when you yell, squirt, or kick Billy Bobs pit bull, Good ole Billy Bob might hop into his truck and come down the road after you with a baseball bat. That is just the reality of where some of us do ride.

So to me, if a dog, baring its teeth, has me stopped and is coming at me aggressively or Billy Bob is coming at me with a baseball bat, tire iron, or more, I am in a position of potential immediate harm and I refuse to alter my riding habits because of someone elses stupidity or irresponsibility. I don't normally carry when I ride, but I can legally carry a firearm (A Makarov .380 with Hydrashocks) and I have every legal right to protect myself from coming to harm and will resort to this level only as a last resort.

I love dogs, but when instinct takes over, the nicest dog in the world can become a predator. In the case of the OP, I believe that the dogs were in a pack mentality and the best choice was to continue onward as they did.

It is also important to note that by contacting the police about an aggressive group of dogs, you have put a liability on them. If they are aware of a dangerous situation, do not act on the information, and someone gets hurt by those dogs, they bear some culpability in the matter.

Here is another scenario, to try and muddy the waters a little. :D

1) Billy Bobs unrestrained and vicious Pit Bull comes at me.
2) I yell at dog
3) Billy Bob comes out and attacks me with baseball bat,
4) Local constabulary arrest Billy Bob for assault with a deadly weapon.
5) Billy Bob and his dog are placed under Her Majesties care at the nearest crowbar hotel.
6) My barrister and solicitor files a tort in civil court asking for $100,000,000 in damages.

This solves the problem for all future riders :D

I am not sure that the Billy Bob's of the world live in places that have constabularies or barristers.

I am not sure that the Billy Bob's of the world live in places that have constabularies or barristers.

No but they have cops and attorneys, same thing, different terms.....

I am not sure that the Billy Bob's of the world live in places that have constabularies or barristers.

In my part of the world, Billy bobs and cops are often one-in-the-same; and if not, they're most likely at least related to each other.

*snip*
Another time, a Pit-Mix came out of nowhere, no barking or anything, he was just there at my rear tire. I had to hit 25mph (on my Trek road bike) before I lost him. I have no doubt he would have done more than just "bite" if he could have gotten me off my bike. A dog that isn't barking is often a sign that it's been trained to fight/attack or had the bark surgically silenced--often for the same purposes. That dog was not in it for the chase, I will swear by that. No way would I have dismounted the bike to confront it.
*snip*

Had this same situation last week. Pit mix was laying down next to a fence out of sight until I got close and charged from the front right and grabbed my shoe after missing my leg and tried to pull me off the bike. No growl, no bark, that's the dog that wants to hurt you. I put on my dominant voice and bashed it in the top of the head three or four times, then chased it home when it let go. I then called Animal Control and made a report. I'm very experienced in handling large dogs and 6'3 and 198 pounds. Had I been a smaller person it could have gone very differently. This dog would hurt someone badly if it pulled them down. Animal Control later told me there were two dogs loose on the property. Report loose,dangerous or aggressive dogs. The next person they go after might be an elderly person or a child.

Pepper spray is a great idea. I saw a lady walking one time carrying a large squirt gun. Noticed her almost everyday for weeks. One day I happened to be stopped and she walked by. I asked what was in the gun. It was her own mix of ammonia, vinegar, pepper sauce and alcohol. Said she's only had to use it once but it worked. Now I wouldn't really recommend this because while trying to pedal for your life it might be a little difficult. The one thing I don't believe I've heard hear might be a great non-lethal alternative. Air horn. They sell them in different places in a aerosol can form. Boaters use a type on the water to alert other boaters they need help. Some of these are quite small. A dog's hearing is acute. They can hear things we don't. Trainers will tell you to put rocks in a plastic bottle or can and shake it at the dog to let it know something is wrong. I think one of these hand-held air horns might do the trick when the dog gets close. You might tick of the neighbors early in the morning but I think the sirens from the ambulance and police cars might do the same thing. I love dogs and would never want to hurt them but I have also been in the situation where the dog is on full on attack and someone had to stop it.

The one thing I don't believe I've heard hear might be a great non-lethal alternative. Air horn. They sell them in different places in a aerosol can form. Boaters use a type on the water to alert other boaters they need help. Some of these are quite small. A dog's hearing is acute. They can hear things we don't. Trainers will tell you to put rocks in a plastic bottle or can and shake it at the dog to let it know something is wrong. I think one of these hand-held air horns might do the trick when the dog gets close. You might tick of the neighbors early in the morning but I think the sirens from the ambulance and police cars might do the same thing. I love dogs and would never want to hurt them but I have also been in the situation where the dog is on full on attack and someone had to stop it.

The air horn might be a good idea, but I don't see how I could attach it to my Glock. lol :roflmao2:

I call Godwin.

I thought one couldn't call Godwin until someone calls another poster "Hitler!"

I thought one couldn't call Godwin until someone calls another poster "Hitler!"

Had to look this one up, as it was a new term to me--sorry, I'm not as "up" on all these terms as I should be I guess. But, it appears that under "proper" forum etiquette, the Historian is correct.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others invented later.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful (this is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception").[6]

Godwin's Law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. It does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda, or other mainstays of the Nazi regime.[citation needed] Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because although mentioning and trivializing Nazism in an online discussion, this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.

However, Godwin's Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's Law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.[7]

Consider the implications of that argument for just a second and you find it's a justification for not only species-ism but racism as well.

Ah, tender misanthropy. "Liberals have developed compassion fatigue for their own species but they are too liberal to say so." - Florence King, With Charity Toward None.

Has anyone had any luck with dog whistles? A friend of mine mentioned the effectiveness to me.

Just wondering.