Living Car Free - SUV owners keep on truckin' despite gas prices

SUV owners keep on truckin' despite gas prices


By Eliott C. McLaughlin
CNN

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Oil prices have some drivers looking for new rides, but some truck and sport-utility vehicle owners are remaining true to their gas guzzlers. They say, $4-a-gallon gas be damned; they need the space.

Gas prices have drivers reconsidering what they drive, but some SUV owners say they have no real alternative.

"You've got to have that room when you're moving around," said Steve Sharp, who has three active children and whose wife owns a dance studio. "It would be impractical for us to own a Prius with everything we've got going on."

Toyota's hybrid sedan just wouldn't work, said Sharp, 36. In addition to hauling their 11-year-old boy to soccer games and their 10- and 7-year-old daughters to dance recitals, Sharp's wife, Caren, also totes large props and background displays for her studio.

In March, as consumer cynicism toward SUVs soared alongside gas prices, the Sharpsburg, Georgia, family purchased a new Chevy Avalanche truck, which gets between 17 and 20 miles per gallon on the highway.

When GM chief Rick Wagoner announced Tuesday his company would close four North American plants by 2010, he cited skyrocketing gas prices as a factor in the automobile giant's decision.

"These higher gasoline prices are changing consumer behavior, and rapidly," Wagoner said. "We don't think this is a temporary spike or shift. We think it is permanent."

Peter Brown, the executive director of the trade publication Automotive News, said in an interview last month that SUV sales were down almost 33 percent this year, and sales of pickups were down almost 20 percent. He likened the behemoths to dinosaurs on the fast path to extinction. iReport.com: Still driving that gas guzzler, and loving it?

"If gas prices stay where they are at or continue to rise, the body-on-frame SUV is an endangered species and the pickup truck as a personal car is an endangered species," he said.

But some consumers say they'll strive to keep the beasts alive, even if it costs $100 or more to fill the tanks.

Stephanie Torgerson, 32, of Pataskala, Ohio, said she simply can't put her three boys in her husband's Mazda 626. The 1-year-old needs a car seat, the 5-year-old needs a booster chair and she doesn't feel comfortable wedging her 8-year-old between the two.

Sure, she could probably get better mileage in a minivan, but she doesn't like the stigma.

"I don't want to be labeled as a soccer mom," she said.

Torgerson said her 2006 Chevy Trailblazer, which gets about 20 mpg, affords her and her kids protection -- not to mention four-wheel drive traction in the snowy winter months. But security comes with a price.

Torgerson's daily commute to Hilliard -- another Columbus suburb -- is 72 miles roundtrip. She spends about $82 a week on gas, she said.'

Asked if she had considered a hybrid SUV with four-wheel drive, she promptly said no.

"They're all brand-new vehicles, and I can't afford a $500-a-month car payment," she said.

Orlando Tapia, of Cabot, Arkansas, said he considered trading in his 2001 Chevy Suburban to buy his wife a new car. The 45-year-old U.S. Air Force education manager said he reconsidered after learning he'd get about one-seventh of the vehicle's market value. See how SUV sales are on the decline »

"They want to give you nothing for it," he said, lamenting the low demand and high supply of such vehicles.

Tapia, who also owns a 1988 Chevy Silverado pickup (his wife drives a Toyota Camry), said his family uses the Suburban only about 10 times a year, for vacations, hauling his flatbed trailer and when piling friends and relatives into the Suburban saves driving two cars.

Tapia decided to keep his cars simply because they're paid for.

"Do I pay $5,000 a year in car payments, or do I put $5,000 of gas in the Suburban?" he asked. "Right now it's cheaper for me to just put gas in the Suburban."

Tapia has felt the pinch of high gas prices, he said, but he has ways to alleviate the burden on his wallet without hocking his truck or SUV.

"If I'm running to the store and the Camry's out there and the Suburban and pickup are out there, I definitely jump in the Camry," he said.

Sharp said his family looks for similar ways to save money on gas. For instance, his wife will time trips to the bank or grocery store so she can pick up the children from school while she's out running errands. Extra trips mean extra gas, Sharp said.

But simple solutions don't work for everyone.

"I've got several of these things that I've been pouring liquid gold in the tank of," said Mark Antley, 47, of Sharpsburg, Georgia.

The computer and technology contractor used to drive his 1999 Suburban from Sharpsburg through Atlanta to the northern suburb of Alpharetta. The 145-mile roundtrip to work put a dent in his 45-gallon gas tank.

Making matters more costly were his wife's car -- another '99 Suburban -- and his diesel 2002 Ford F250 pickup.

So last month, Antley got on eBay, where he found a 1996 Pontiac Sunfire for $1,000. The car is a "piece of junk," he said, but it gets about 37 mpg, almost tripling his Suburban's mileage. He has already put 5,000 miles on it, which has saved him about the cost of the car in gas, he said.

"Last month, before I bought this car, it was running in the neighborhood of $1,400 to $1,800 a month," Antley said of his family's gasoline budget.

Though Antley has left his F250 parked since Christmas, his wife still needs her Suburban for carpooling to school and school events. The Antleys' daughter just turned 16, and is driving her own Toyota Corolla, but the couple's boys need rides to soccer practice and their sister's gymnastics meets.

Antley said he doesn't think the SUV is on the verge of extinction. He laughs at folks willing to pay $1.25 for a pint of bottled water -- $10 a gallon -- but who gripe about $4-a-gallon gas.

All products go up in price, he said. Gas prices eventually will level off and families will adjust their budgets accordingly. SUVs will either become luxuries for those who can afford the gas or necessities for those who need what SUVs have to offer, he predicts.

"There will still be a niche market for them," he said. "I don't know what other vehicle affords you the luxury of carrying as much as they do."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/06/06/SUV.owners/index.html?iref=newssearch#cnnSTCText

Kind of the polar opposite of the attitudes I see on this forum. Interesting to see how others rationalize it.

my guess is that of 100 SUV's you see on the road, there are less than 10 that actually have more than one person sitting in them. next time i'm on the dallas roads i'll count 'em up. i don't mind big trucks if people actually need them, but for most driving they are an unnecessary waste of resources. down in texas nearly everyone drives a pick -up or SUV, yet it's pretty rare that you see a load of dirt or stone in the truck bed... notice that in the article, none of them mention the toll their SUV plays in environmental degradation?

As I write this, my SUV is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

As I write this, my SUV is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.


But if one were smart, they'd have a more efficient vehicle that they would hook up one of those small cargo trailers, for the time they're hauling "camping gear" or "props".

"Last month, before I bought this car, it was running in the neighborhood of $1,400 to $1,800 a month," Antley said of his family's gasoline budget.

holy crap! that's insane. that would cover our mortgage completely.

I have this 1 ton, long Chevy van with a 454 that gets like, 6mpg around town, so I never drive it.

It has a 45 gal tank in it, and room for 8-55 gal drums, so I fill those up, wait a couple weeks for gas to go up another $1, sell it to the neighbors for .20 less than pump prices...BAM, a cool $200 bucks.

If it's really cheap, I fill up all my plastic milk jugs....

"Last month, before I bought this car, it was running in the neighborhood of $1,400 to $1,800 a month," Antley said of his family's gasoline budget.

holy crap! that's insane. that would cover our mortgage completely.

No kidding. I wonder if he is also running a business or something out of one of his vehicles. I am guessing that he puts on something like 5K miles/month, or 66K miles/year.

But if one were smart, they'd have a more efficient vehicle that they would hook up one of those small cargo trailers, for the time they're hauling "camping gear" or "props".

If one were smart, they keep their paid for SUV, keep it parked, use it when necessary, and minimize the wear and tear and money in repair bills on the small fuel efficent car that they have by not overloading it with something it wasn't designed for.

As I write this, my SUV is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

As i write this my bike is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

Come on dude, it's 30 miles, that ain't *****

As i write this my bike is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

Come on dude, it's 30 miles, that ain't *****

Listen dude! may I call you dude?, it ain't only me that's going and 30 miles is a big deal to them.

"Last month, before I bought this car, it was running in the neighborhood of $1,400 to $1,800 a month," Antley said of his family's gasoline budget.

holy crap! that's insane. that would cover our mortgage completely.

holy crap! that's insane. that would cover my rent completely.

what the hell kind of mortgage did you guys get???

As i write this my bike is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

Come on dude, it's 30 miles, that ain't *****

Yeah so next time when I drive 50 miles upstate through multiple 10 plus % grades with 40+ lbs of gear each for me and my gf, we'll ride instead of drive... smart, real smart.

Yeah so next time when I drive 50 miles upstate through multiple 10 plus % grades with 40+ lbs of gear each for me and my gf, we'll ride instead of drive... smart, real smart.

My gf and i do it all the time, are you saying we are stupid?
40lbs each of gear? wow! you can easily carry that in a full set of panniers....

My gf and i do it all the time, are you saying we are stupid?
40lbs each of gear? wow! you can easily carry that in a full set of panniers....


As i write this my bike is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

Come on dude, it's 30 miles, that ain't *****

"Easily carry" 40+ lbs of gear, EACH, up miles of 10+ % grades, for 50+ miles, sure.

Either you're
a: looking for a pat on the back.
or
b: lying.
or
c: going 12mph the whole time, get there tired and sweaty, and take even longer going home.

Now, do you want to be called a liar, slow, or do you want a pat on the back? Which one will it be?

"Easily carry" 40+ lbs of gear, EACH, up miles of 10+ % grades, for 50+ miles, sure.

Either you're
a: looking for a pat on the back.
or
b: lying.
or
c: going 12mph the whole time, enjoying the fresh air and landscape, and loving every minute of it.

Now, do you want to be called a liar, slow, or do you want a pat on the back? Which one will it be?

I'll go for C....

40lbs is packing heavy, but yeah it can easily be done

I'll go for C....

40lbs is packing heavy, but yeah it can easily be done

Alright... you got me there...

It's funny because on our last camping trip we averaged about 11mph. To a roadie it is "slow", but that is not what you are really going for when you set out on your bike with all your gear.

holy crap! that's insane. that would cover my rent completely.

what the hell kind of mortgage did you guys get???

it's my GFs mortgage actually. I just pay her as if she was a landlord. But yeah, she got a killer deal on the apartment a few years ago. we're lucky to live where we do for so cheap. :)

"Easily carry" 40+ lbs of gear, EACH, up miles of 10+ % grades, for 50+ miles, sure.

Either you're
a: looking for a pat on the back.
or
b: lying.
or
c: going 12mph the whole time, get there tired and sweaty, and take even longer going home.

Now, do you want to be called a liar, slow, or do you want a pat on the back? Which one will it be?

"Slow" is NOT an insult on this forum, as it is on the Road forum. Most of us are very used to riding slow with heavy loads and putting ourselves away wet. Ditto on the Touring forum, which I refer you to since that's the kind of cycling you guys are really talking about here.

(I know you're kinda new here, so somebody has to tell you. The world of cycling--and bikeforums itself--covers a lot of purposes and speeds.)

"Slow" is NOT an insult on this forum, as it is on the Road forum. Most of us are very used to riding slow with heavy loads and putting ourselves away wet. Ditto on the Touring forum, which I refer you to since that's the kind of cycling you guys are really talking about here.

(I know you're kinda new here, so somebody has to tell you. The world of cycling--and bikeforums itself--covers a lot of purposes and speeds.)

It's not meant to be an insult, it's meant to say that the people that the article was referring to probably wanted to go camping or hiking for the sake of camping or hiking not so they could ride 5-6 hours to go hiking or camping.

I wouldn't exactly call myself new. I've been on bikeforums before the living car free section even existed and I've done every type of biking save for downhill. The reason why I stay out of it is that for some reason, the people are here so biased against the automobile that they'll jump at any chance to bash it. That and jump at the chance to pat each other's backs.

Case in point, preaching to the choir. Saying, "oh 30 miles ain't sh*t with 50 lbs, it's no big deal, i can do it with one eye closed" is NOT meant to convey any message other than a) to brag that you can do it and b) to confirm to your fellow forumnites that you can do it.

Really, what is the point of saying that in response to this when you know damn well that 99% of the public doesn't and won't do that? If on one hand, it's to suggest to people that it's so easy, anyone can do it, well then we're back to the root of my statement, most people either won't or can't beacuse they'll end up spending more time riding than hiking, hence my original statement of being slow to get to the destination. If it's to suggest that YOU can do it, then we're back to my other statement, you deserve a pat on the back.

Bikepacker67 has the right idea. Given adequate parking space and the power of hindsight, ideally a light truck and a fuel efficient compact can cover nearly all your bases, but then, that wouldn't be a valid solution here, now would it?

So let's agree to disagree and you'll get your pat on the back ok?
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5954469,00.jpg
To the majority of people here, it very well might be the best alternative (so pat on the back for you), but for a lot of people, it's not, so they'll keep driving and using gas.

As i write this my bike is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

Come on dude, it's 30 miles, that ain't *****

I've recently started weekend bicycle camping and I have to say car camping doesn't come anywhere near it in terms of fun.

However, I have a similar problem to yours. Everyone else thinks the trip is an ordeal, so they get to stay at home.

Still, I have had a few thoughts about motivating them:
1) there's a state park just 15 miles from my door which would be do-able for the non bikers in the family.
2) I'm also thinking about a picnic to a site that is about 20 miles from here. That would appeal to the non-camper, but cycling members of the family.

Either way, I would recommend bicycle camping if you haven't done it already. It's a complete other dimension when compared to commuting or Sunday rides.
:love:

it's my GFs mortgage actually. I just pay her as if she was a landlord. But yeah, she got a killer deal on the apartment a few years ago. we're lucky to live where we do for so cheap. :)

Sleeping with the landlord... ****.. and I thought my sleeping with the roommate thing was a good deal.

I've recently started weekend bicycle camping and I have to say car camping doesn't come anywhere near it in terms of fun.

However, I have a similar problem to yours. Everyone else thinks the trip is an ordeal, so they get to stay at home.

Still, I have had a few thoughts about motivating them:
1) there's a state park just 15 miles from my door which would be do-able for the non bikers in the family.
2) I'm also thinking about a picnic to a site that is about 20 miles from here. That would appeal to the non-camper, but cycling members of the family.

Either way, I would recommend bicycle camping if you haven't done it already. It's a complete other dimension when compared to commuting or Sunday rides.
:love:

The main thing for me is getting the family together with something they like to do, be it just a Sunday bike ride, or a weekend camping trip using the SUV. My family always looks forward to our weekend bike ride, and I wish not to undo the progress that I have made so far by trying to browbeat them into something they do not wish to do at this point in time,(re: 60 mile r/t bike camping trip with full camping gear) at least I have them on the bike, and I'm taking one weekend at a time.

I wouldn't exactly call myself new. I've been on bikeforums before the living car free section even existed and I've done every type of biking save for downhill. The reason why I stay out of it is that for some reason, the people are here so biased against the automobile that they'll jump at any chance to bash it. That and jump at the chance to pat each other's backs.

Case in point, preaching to the choir. Saying, "oh 30 miles ain't sh*t with 50 lbs, it's no big deal, i can do it with one eye closed" is NOT meant to convey any message other than a) to brag that you can do it and b) to confirm to your fellow forumnites that you can do it.

Really, what is the point of saying that in response to this when you know damn well that 99% of the public doesn't and won't do that? If on one hand, it's to suggest to people that it's so easy, anyone can do it, well then we're back to the root of my statement, most people either won't or can't beacuse they'll end up spending more time riding than hiking, hence my original statement of being slow to get to the destination. If it's to suggest that YOU can do it, then we're back to my other statement, you deserve a pat on the back.


I think you over analyzed my comment. The second post was a snarky comment about having an SUV loaded down to go camping 30 miles away. It did not contribute to the thread, hw was only looking for something, what i don't know, maybe he was trolling. I simply responded with a snarky comment of my own, hence the "come on dude" as i would never write that seriously. In turn you responded with an even snarkier comment, so what do you expect?

This IS the car-free forum where people who live car free try to discuss ways to live car free without compromising your overall lifestyle. One thing i hated when i gave up a car is the fact that i can't go hiking or camping as easy, and finally i realized that i can do it on my bike. The weekend trips started to become more about the journey instead of the destination, and i don't mind if i didn't to go on a 5+ mile hike. When you bike camp the trip starts as soon as you leave your house and you can smell the freshly cut grass, hear the turkeys in the field, and stop as often as you want to take pictures and enjoy the fresh air. Gerv is right, it is way more fun that car camping.

From my house we have:
State park with hike/bike site ~ 30 miles
Hostel on the coast ~ 25 miles
Golden Gate National Recreation Area (marin headland) ~ 15 miles
Hostel on coast with hot tub - 50 miles
Numerous option in santa cruz mountains ~ 40-70 miles depending
BART train to numerous state and county parks - 30min train ride, 15-30 mile bike ride
Angel Island - 30 min ferry ride, 1-2 mile bike ride
so many more options i have yet to explore......

You see, there is something for everyone, and you don't have to go 50 miles over 20% grades with 800 lbs of gear.......if you don't want to.

Anyway, next time i will try to be the better poster and keep my snarky comment to myself

I've recently started weekend bicycle camping and I have to say car camping doesn't come anywhere near it in terms of fun.

However, I have a similar problem to yours. Everyone else thinks the trip is an ordeal, so they get to stay at home.

Still, I have had a few thoughts about motivating them:
1) there's a state park just 15 miles from my door which would be do-able for the non bikers in the family.
2) I'm also thinking about a picnic to a site that is about 20 miles from here. That would appeal to the non-camper, but cycling members of the family.

Either way, I would recommend bicycle camping if you haven't done it already. It's a complete other dimension when compared to commuting or Sunday rides.
:love:
One thing I did with a friend not up to biking the whole way is I biked with most of the gear and she drove her bike to a spot just 5 miles for the campsite. We met up and biked the rest of the way. She got to experience the flavor of bike camping without the pedaling she wasn't up to. If we go again she'll bike further now that she knows how fun it is and some day she may bike the whole distance.

Yes, there are many SUV owners who will keep their SUV for specific uses.

We own a '93 Suburban & a '96 K1500 PU which both just sit until they are
needed. I've deliberatly chosen to own, and keep, these two vehicles to avoid
the cost of constant replacement of our vehicles ,as so many do, every 3>4 years.

We use the '93 Suburban only for trips or large passenger loads which is about 6 times
each year. Due the the fact that the Sub was long ago paid for I care not one bit
about trade in and such. I want USE VALUE first and with a Suburban I've got
that in spades!

The '96 K1500 was my work truck but is now retired like me to odd jobs when
needed.

Our gas expense is now the least of our worries due to the fact that I long
ago positioned my family in a way that allows us to be ready for the post
oil/energy lite world. So far ,since Nov 2007, I've bought exactly 250 gals
of fuel for BOTH vehcles with most of that still the tanks!

ALL of the in town (pop.2500) needs are taken care of either by bicycle ,or
for heavy loads, my Worksman trike. So I don't need much stinking gas!:thumb:

Kept vehicles also allow the smart owners to "jump over" technology changes until
they actually either need a new vehicle or stop needing one altogether thus avoiding
the dreaded trade in. :thumb:

As I write this, my SUV is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

You don't need an SUV for that. Once I went backpacking in northern BC in a Honda Civic (40 mpg highway). There was more than enough room for two people and all their stuff, including a dog. This summer I'm going to Port Townsend, 40 miles away, on bikes (a little better than 40 mpg highway). And no, neither of us are very athletic or even spartan.

my guess is that of 100 SUV's you see on the road, there are less than 10 that actually have more than one person sitting in them. next time i'm on the dallas roads i'll count 'em up. i don't mind big trucks if people actually need them, but for most driving they are an unnecessary waste of resources. down in texas nearly everyone drives a pick -up or SUV, yet it's pretty rare that you see a load of dirt or stone in the truck bed... notice that in the article, none of them mention the toll their SUV plays in environmental degradation?
Who am I to judge? I don't know the details of how or why someone else uses an SUV or any other kind of vehicle for that matter.

I might see an SUV on the road driven by one person, but I have no way of knowing if the driver didn't just finish taking a work crew to a job site or a number of athletes to or from a sporting function. I might see a full-sized pick-up truck driven by one person, but I have no way of knowing if the driver is in trades and uses the truck to haul tools or supplies to work most of the time. I have no way of knowing if the driver of a four-wheel-drive vehicle lives out of town along a rough road where smaller cars would get stuck.

The same is true when motorists see cyclists. Some will try to make value judgments about me when I'm out for a ride, but they don't know the whole story. They might see me as a recreational driver trying to get exercise even though I often ride for transportation. They might see my choice of a bicycle as impractical without understanding what I've selected or why.

The choice of a mode of transportation, whether a large SUV, a small car, a bicycle, a skateboard, public transit or walking, is a personal matter. I've tried to make wise choices for myself, but I wouldn't want anyone else trying to make my choices for me.

You don't need an SUV for that. Once I went backpacking in northern BC in a Honda Civic (40 mpg highway). There was more than enough room for two people and all their stuff, including a dog. This summer I'm going to Port Townsend, 40 miles away, on bikes (a little better than 40 mpg highway). And no, neither of us are very athletic or even spartan.

That's fine, even if it was just the two of us going, we would still take our bread box of a car since the wife is not about to ride 60 miles round trip on her bike with full camping gear in the weekend time span alloted. At least I have made the people going with us bring their bikes to ride around, and I'm taking this one step at a time. Here on BF, 30, 40, 60 mile, two or three day bike camping trip for me is a "can, will, and have done", but step out into mainstream America, and I have to make concessions with my family and friends.

That's fine, even if it was just the two of us going, we would still take our bread box of a car since the wife is not about to ride 60 miles round trip on her bike with full camping gear in the weekend time span alloted. At least I have made the people going with us bring their bikes to ride around, and I'm taking this one step at a time. Here on BF, 30, 40, 60 mile, two or three day bike camping trip for me is a "can, will, and have done", but step out into mainstream America, and I have to make concessions with my family and friends.

Sorry to say but this statement is incorrect as facts go...."but step out into mainstream America, and I have to make concessions with my family and friends."

It ,in fact, is they who will have to come to terms with the new reality of peak oil, overpopulation,
and shortages of all kinds not you. It is they who will have to adapt.

I have learned that no matter what activity you are involved in about 10 percent of the people you talk to in these forums are “enthusiasts” and the rest are simply enthusiastic about the subject. To be gracious I use the word “enthusiast” in place of purest. I agree SUVs and Pickups have drawbacks. But so do small cars. I have both so I know. If you have anything to haul a small car simply isn’t designed to help much. For small utility runs a small car works fine but not if you have a boat, a quad or two, Dirt bikes, a travel trailer or a fifth wheel.

Enthusiasts may eschew all of those toys that Americans seem to collect today and point an accusing finger at the people that have them for their carbon foot print but I can assure you that many of the people that participate in those activities are also enthusiastic about bicycles. When traveling from one state to another every KOA, or other, campground we pull into has big RVs with two or three bikes sitting next to them. When I was into boating every live aboard boater I knew had a bicycle. Folders are pretty popular with boaters.

All I am saying is SUVs have a place that can’t be filled by a Prius. Camping by bike works for some and not for others. I for one don’t care for sleeping on the ground. I do like the idea of a biking picnic. I think we are just a bit too quick to judge someone else’s idea of a lifestyle. People that have SUVs and Pickups didn’t get them to anger anyone else they thought they wanted one and could afford it. It didn’t matter if they ever used it like it was designed to be used it only mattered that they thought they might someday use it as it was designed to be used.

It is easy for some to sit back and say getting a SUV is simply wasteful and stupid. However I can only imagine what my neighbors thought of me after I bought my Giant Revive LX and they were riding their bikes they got a Wallmart. “ What was he thinking, I got my duel shocks front and rear mountain bike and I only spent $140.00?”

Just my 2 cents.

As I write this, my SUV is loaded down with camping gear for a weekend outing 30 miles away.

My Surly Long Haul Trucker touring bike is loaded down for a camping trip 75 miles away.

holy crap! that's insane. that would cover my rent completely.

what the hell kind of mortgage did you guys get???

Is that bad? Our 4 bedroom colonial we bought for about $180k on a 15yr mortgage at 5.75% runs about $1700 after you add in all of the insurance and taxes.

And I only have 10 years left.

I don't disagree that there is a need for SUVs in some cases. It's when you see one person driving to work in a chevy suburban 6 miles that it takes on an extreme. I hate having SUVs park next to me, since they create such blind spots. It would be great if our infratructure (more importantly, attitude) allowed greater opportunities for car share and public transit. Keep your SUV parked 'till you need it.

I am not anti-car in any extreme, but being on the bike more just tends to make you think a bit differently. Is biking for everyone, no? Is a $1200 Trek for everyone, no? To each his own.

I have learned that no matter what activity you are involved in about 10 percent of the people you talk to in these forums are “enthusiasts” and the rest are simply enthusiastic about the subject. To be gracious I use the word “enthusiast” in place of purest. I agree SUVs and Pickups have drawbacks. But so do small cars. I have both so I know. If you have anything to haul a small car simply isn’t designed to help much. For small utility runs a small car works fine but not if you have a boat, a quad or two, Dirt bikes, a travel trailer or a fifth wheel.

Enthusiasts may eschew all of those toys that Americans seem to collect today and point an accusing finger at the people that have them for their carbon foot print but I can assure you that many of the people that participate in those activities are also enthusiastic about bicycles. When traveling from one state to another every KOA, or other, campground we pull into has big RVs with two or three bikes sitting next to them. When I was into boating every live aboard boater I knew had a bicycle. Folders are pretty popular with boaters.

All I am saying is SUVs have a place that can’t be filled by a Prius. Camping by bike works for some and not for others. I for one don’t care for sleeping on the ground. I do like the idea of a biking picnic. I think we are just a bit too quick to judge someone else’s idea of a lifestyle. People that have SUVs and Pickups didn’t get them to anger anyone else they thought they wanted one and could afford it. It didn’t matter if they ever used it like it was designed to be used it only mattered that they thought they might someday use it as it was designed to be used.

It is easy for some to sit back and say getting a SUV is simply wasteful and stupid. However I can only imagine what my neighbors thought of me after I bought my Giant Revive LX and they were riding their bikes they got a Wallmart. “ What was he thinking, I got my duel shocks front and rear mountain bike and I only spent $140.00?”

Just my 2 cents.

It's human nature to have "penis" envy. Some always check to see if they are still top dog in
the neighborhood. :rolleyes:

Sorry to say but this statement is incorrect as facts go...."but step out into mainstream America, and I have to make concessions with my family and friends."

It ,in fact, is they who will have to come to terms with the new reality of peak oil, overpopulation,
and shortages of all kinds not you. It is they who will have to adapt.

My statement maybe incorrect for some future camping trip , but not incorrect for this particular weekend, which I was refering to.

My Surly Long Haul Trucker touring bike is loaded down for a camping trip 75 miles away.

That's cool, how many days have you alloted for this trip?

Is that bad? Our 4 bedroom colonial we bought for about $180k on a 15yr mortgage at 5.75% runs about $1700 after you add in all of the insurance and taxes.

And I only have 10 years left.

Hush! You don't live in NYC! :p

Hell if I lived out there, I'd just pay for a house like that in cash. Well, enough cash anyway to still reap all the tax benefits.

It's human nature to have "penis" envy. Some always check to see if they are still top dog in
the neighborhood. :rolleyes:

Sometimes penis envy works to one's advantage, I'm hoping that large numbers of SUV owners start selling theirs off to get a hybrid or more smaller economical versions , flooding the market with large numbers of used dinosaur sized SUV's. Then we can replace our aged SUV with a newer version at a much reduced cost.
We did this same thing by purchasing our bread box economy car several years ago when gas prices dropped considerably and large SUVs became popular again, and the market was flooded with fuel efficient cars.

The main thing for me is getting the family together with something they like to do, be it just a Sunday bike ride, or a weekend camping trip using the SUV. My family always looks forward to our weekend bike ride, and I wish not to undo the progress that I have made so far by trying to browbeat them into something they do not wish to do at this point in time,(re: 60 mile r/t bike camping trip with full camping gear) at least I have them on the bike, and I'm taking one weekend at a time.

Best point I've seen made in this thread. Being a family man I totally relate, I have just started my 14 yr to bike with me on the weekends while mom stays home with the other..soon this will spead and it will be a family outing. How far or extreme that goes we shall see but like you said " taking one weekend at a time"

Hush! You don't live in NYC! :p

Hell if I lived out there, I'd just pay for a house like that in cash. Well, enough cash anyway to still reap all the tax benefits.



http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5954469,00.jpg

Once when talking to someone my car freedom came up. Without anymore than the mere fact that I am car free he became defensive. Then he said something that stuck out as ridiculous, "My brother _needs_ his SUV, he has to tow his boat."

Um, ok, I guess he needs that SUV about as much as he needs that boat.

Maybe SUVs do have their place. I'm just not sure that place is on the Carfree forum.

Once when talking to someone my car freedom came up. Without anymore than the mere fact that I am car free he became defensive. Then he said something that stuck out as ridiculous, "My brother _needs_ his SUV, he has to tow his boat."

Um, ok, I guess he needs that SUV about as much as he needs that boat.


Such a typical response.

I agree SUVs and Pickups have drawbacks. But so do small cars. I have both so I know. If you have anything to haul a small car simply isn’t designed to help much. For small utility runs a small car works fine but not if you have a boat, a quad or two, Dirt bikes, a travel trailer or a fifth wheel.

When traveling from one state to another every KOA, or other, campground we pull into has big RVs with two or three bikes sitting next to them. When I was into boating every live aboard boater I knew had a bicycle. Folders are pretty popular with boaters.

All I am saying is SUVs have a place that can’t be filled by a Prius.

they wanted one and could afford it. It didn’t matter if they ever used it like it was designed to be used it only mattered that they thought they might someday use it as it was designed to be used.


Is it just me, or did this post bother some others on the Carfree forum as well?

LIVING CAR FREE, why are you justifying the use of your SUV's?

Do you think everyone on this forum hasn't heard all of this a million times.

Once when talking to someone my car freedom came up. Without anymore than the mere fact that I am car free he became defensive. Then he said something that stuck out as ridiculous, "My brother _needs_ his SUV, he has to tow his boat."

Um, ok, I guess he needs that SUV about as much as he needs that boat.

Is his brother's name Robert Foster?

I just saw on another forum where a member was considering buying a brand new crew cab full-size pickup because the dealer was offering it so cheap. He admits he would rarely use it for towing or hauling anything. I'm okay with people wasting their own money if that's what they want to do with it.

Just my rant on life in the states in general:

I fully appreciate the idea that if you want to waste your money, do it. Some would consider the money we spend on bikes wasteful. That said, we are a very inconsiderate nation. Cell phone manners in public, large, obnoxious vehicles bought, in many cases, for vanity. Look at the European market and the cars that are available available. How many suvs and trucks are being sold in Europe? Why is that a 50cc scooter works fine in a large part of the world, but forget about it if you live here? Market driven economics is a wonderful thing, but there has to be some personal responsibility that plays into it.

/soapbox

I'm beginning to see some of this anti-SUV sentiment pour out into my workplace. Now that the SUV and large truck owners are somewhat on the defensive, even in my suburban workplace, I notice they are being occasionally attacked by people who really have no right to throw the first stone.

One colleague recently complained of all the large trucks using up all the gas and forcing prices to go up. His ride? A Honda Accord. He seemed to think the Accord was a small, ecologically friendly vehicle... until I reminded him that in Europe these would be considered boats.

Really, I think we should stop beating up on SUV owners. These poor folks (or at least soon to be poor...) already know the error of their ways.

It's the mid-size Honda Civic/Toyota Corolla types that we now need to educate.