Professional Cycling For the Fans - Let's talk about Floyd's test results here

Which is why I think the B sample should be tested at a different certified lab at random. If you're testing something for a completely objectionable result shouldn't you make an effort of trying to be as believeable as possible? I.e.-take all doubt out. Send it to a lab in the US or canada, or wherever.

i agree. perception is important, and if people don't actually believe the lab is all that it could be, then there will always be doubt as to the test results. this, i think, is a real problem. 'b' sample should be done elsewhere.

I wouldn't want to be the person who has to do the B-sample analysis, with the athlete and/or legal representative there with the yellow legal pad, noting everything I do. I wonder if they allow it to be videotaped. I could see myself dropping the specimen on the floor... oops.

What the #$%^ ever happened to innocent until proven guilty in this country?

Hey, can you spell France?

According to this pre-tour interview, testosterone is widely used to help short-term recovery. I really can see Landi doing it after stage 16. He had nothing to lose and he needed to recover quickly. They don't test for everything every time and this doctor seems to think you can usually get away with it:

German doctor Kurt Moosburger, who has looked after Jörg Jaksche (among others) for the past two years, has told dpa that he believes that performance enhancing drugs are "indispensable" for high level cycling

In a frank interview, Moosburger pointed to the average speeds of modern professional races, especially hard tours. "The average in last year's Tour was 41 kilometres per hour - that is incredible. You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need - depending on your training conditions - up to three days in order to regenerate."

To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."

Moose burger

hehehehehe

All you american's are such hypocrites. Where was everyone who is so concerned with due process now when all the riders were not allowed to race based upon pure tabloid speculation. And now 18 have been cleared and counting.

Landis and Armstrong couldn't have cheated because they are red-blooded american boys, but how did Armstrong beat Ullrich and Basso if they were such cheaters? And how come Landis was so vocal in his support of the doping controls until he got caught?

I hope Pereiro gets his trophy soon.

All you american's are such hypocrites. Where was everyone who is so concerned with due process now when all the riders were not allowed to race based upon pure tabloid speculation. And now 18 have been cleared and counting.

Landis and Armstrong couldn't have cheated because they are red-blooded american boys, but how did Armstrong beat Ullrich and Basso if they were such cheaters? And how come Landis was so vocal in his support of the doping controls until he got caught?

I hope Pereiro gets his trophy soon.

I had several conversations with people about how I thought the ethics code was stupid and that they should race and disqualify if found guilty. I still hold out hope that Basso and Ulrich are innocent. I also think the problem with "due process" here is that the protocol for this (quiet until B sample results) is being violated, hence the very procedure by which the UCI set up is not being followed by the UCI.

All you american's are such hypocrites. Where was everyone who is so concerned with due process now when all the riders were not allowed to race based upon pure tabloid speculation. And now 18 have been cleared and counting.


Off-topic.
Do you have a link to a list of who all has been cleared?

All you american's are such hypocrites. Where was everyone who is so concerned with due process now when all the riders were not allowed to race based upon pure tabloid speculation. And now 18 have been cleared and counting.

Landis and Armstrong couldn't have cheated because they are red-blooded american boys, but how did Armstrong beat Ullrich and Basso if they were such cheaters? And how come Landis was so vocal in his support of the doping controls until he got caught?

I hope Pereiro gets his trophy soon.

your sexy when when you insult using sterotypes and baseless accusations.

All the riders from Astana and Communidad Valenciana. Vinokourov was not allowed to race because of his now-cleared Astana teammates. It would have been a completely different race with Vino involved. The "evidence" so far against Basso is pathetic, and the only evidence against Ullrich is evidence against his coach who coached others as welll. But everyone is hang-wringing about the results of the tests that Landis never objected to until he failed them. Landis wouldn't have even made the podium if all the riders had competed.

Ok, so the positive result to the carbon isotope test looks bad. What I don't understand is, if he was taking testosterone, why didn't he test positive in other tests. Let's say that, after stage 16, he decided to put on a testosterone patch in an attempt to aid his recovery. So, he's got testosterone in his body and tests positive after stage 17. Wouldn't there still be traces of external/artificial testosterone left that would show up in the tests done after stage 19 and stage 20? I'm not a scientist but can't imagine testosterone's half life is that short and/or that the test isn't sensitive enough to detect really low levels.

Anyone have knowledge on this?

Thanks,

Hoff
Assuming he's doping - I said ASSUMING -

They compensate for the bad stuff by putting other stuff in the athlete, or by not taking too much bad stuff. For example, you take testo, you also take epitestosterone, so the ratio remains within limits. Or you take "not too much" testo. End result, when everything is done ok, you're within limits, life is good. Explains why so many riders have such high hematocrit levels - high, but below the limit (until it's above, of course).

On the third week of a stage race, after a long and bad day, travelling all over France, everyone is tired, including the docs. Someone - the doc, the athlete, whoever - screws up, forgets the epitesto shot, gives a higher testo dose, forgets the 3rd stuff that masks the 2nd stuff that masks the illegal stuff, forgets the Jack Daniel Compensation Chart, whatever: someone screws up the protocol. Or the protocol is borderline to start with, so that anything can throw it over. And lo and behold, athlete tests positive. Did not the day before, the week before, the month before; will not the day after, the week after, the month after.

Assuming. Of course.

All the riders from Astana and Communidad Valenciana. Vinokourov was not allowed to race because of his now-cleared Astana teammates. It would have been a completely different race with Vino involved. The "evidence" so far against Basso is pathetic, and the only evidence against Ullrich is evidence against his coach who coached others as welll. But everyone is hang-wringing about the results of the tests that Landis never objected to until he failed them. Landis wouldn't have even made the podium if all the riders had competed.

They have only been "cleared" by the prosecutor (because there was no anti-doping law in effect in Spain at the time. It has only recently been passed). The fact remains that they are connected to Fuentes. The prosecutor in Spain is more concerned with the doctors network than the riders.

All the riders from Astana and Communidad Valenciana. Vinokourov was not allowed to race because of his now-cleared Astana teammates. It would have been a completely different race with Vino involved. The "evidence" so far against Basso is pathetic, and the only evidence against Ullrich is evidence against his coach who coached others as welll. But everyone is hang-wringing about the results of the tests that Landis never objected to until he failed them. Landis wouldn't have even made the podium if all the riders had competed.

I knew about Astana, thanks for the info on the others. I really wish Vino could have raced. Really alot.

Tour de France champion Andy Landis is expected to learn the results of his second doping test Saturday, and even if that sample is positive it could take weeks to decide if he will be stripped of his title
Looks like Forbes found that missing twin Tyler Hamilton was looking for.

http://www.forbes.com/business/businesstech/feeds/ap/2006/08/01/ap2919570.html

They have only been "cleared" by the prosecutor (because there was no anti-doping law in effect in Spain at the time. It has only recently been passed). The fact remains that they are connected to Fuentes. The prosecutor in Spain is more concerned with the doctors network than the riders.


Nope. These riders aren't implicated in any way. By your logic, all riders should be cleared because they can't be prosecuted in Spain. But each rider has to go through the Spanish courts and ask specifically about their own name because the police won't release any evidence. More will follow.

But I love how everyone is bending over backwards to believe these 58 riders are guilty and at the same time bending into pretzels to believe Landis' positive test can't be right.

Nope. These riders aren't implicated in any way. By your logic, all riders should be cleared because they can't be prosecuted in Spain. But each rider has to go through the Spanish courts and ask specifically about their own name because the police won't release any evidence. More will follow.

But I love how everyone is bending over backwards to believe these 58 riders are guilty and at the same time bending into pretzels to believe Landis' positive test can't be right.

I'm not twisted into any pretzel about Landis. It would seem that the positive test speaks for itself. It will either be confirmed in the counter-analysis (most likely) or not.

Thanks for clarifying the Spanish court situation.

I might add that if a rider should be banned for being "connected" to Fuentes, then Armstrong's tour victories should be yanked for being just as "connected" to Ferrari.

If one wants to analyze news coverage of positive news -Landis victory - vs Negative news - allegations of drug use - this story aptly shows the media's preference for the nasty stuff.

...the only evidence against Ullrich is evidence against his coach who coached others as welll....

They have bags of Ullrich's blood, from Fuentes' refrigerator, ready for re-packing. That's pretty strong evidence, don't you think? Jan could take a simple DNA test to prove that it's not his blood, but he refuses. It's tragic that some innocent riders have suffered, but they were not ALL innocent.

They have bags of Ullrich's blood, from Fuentes' refrigerator, ready for re-packing. That's pretty strong evidence, don't you think? Jan could take a simple DNA test to prove that it's not his blood, but he refuses. It's tragic that some innocent riders have suffered, but they were not ALL innocent.


I hadn't heard that.
Source?

I hadn't heard that.
Source?

There were several bags of blood labelled "JAN", they even showed these on news reports. Here is an article which summarizes and references information published in the Netherlands, linked in the text: http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1153508990.shtml

Ullrich could easily prove that these are not his blood, but refuses to do a DNA test.

Thanks! I think.
This gets more disheartening the more we learn.

If it weren't 106 outside I'd just tune it out and go for another ride.

They have bags of Ullrich's blood, from Fuentes' refrigerator, ready for re-packing. That's pretty strong evidence, don't you think? Jan could take a simple DNA test to prove that it's not his blood, but he refuses. It's tragic that some innocent riders have suffered, but they were not ALL innocent.


How many Jans are in the peleton? I mean if i were a cheat i would use Jans, Vino's , Ivan's almost any body elses name but my own. I would use Basso's dog name or Vino's cats sisters name etc..... incredible how peoples lives are getting trucked by some pretty weak claims. You have to figure if cycling is so far in front of the all the other sports in terms of doping, that they would have a way to conceal or track the names a little better than using a sharpie and writing names on the bags..... they people doing this type of stuff aren't exactly stupid. I mean if these masterminds of doping can get around almost all of the test and thier only failing is the labeling of the blood bags, does that make sense to anyone? And how much of Jans sample B's are out there? I am sure they can pull a vial and run a dna test .........

How many Jans are in the peleton? I mean if i were a cheat i would use Jans, Vino's , Ivan's almost any body elses name but my own. I would use Basso's dog name or Vino's cats sisters name etc..... incredible how peoples lives are getting trucked by some pretty weak claims. You have to figure if cycling is so far in front of the all the other sports in terms of doping, that they would have a way to conceal or track the names a little better than using a sharpie and writing names on the bags..... they people doing this type of stuff aren't exactly stupid. I mean if these masterminds of doping can get around almost all of the test and thier only failing is the labeling of the blood bags, does that make sense to anyone? And how much of Jans sample B's are out there? I am sure they can pull a vial and run a dna test .........


the lableing of bags is more complex then you think. Look at what happened to hamilton and perez. A mistake like that could kill so not putting too much obfuscation into the codenames is a good idea.

almost any body elses name but my own. I would use Basso's dog name .....

Sometimes people like to use rather convolutes logic that for those who know are all but unforgettable. Was Basso's dog female? Is there someone in hte peleton who it seems Basso simply owns?

Why do these matter? Because in many forms of slang being someones b1tch means they own you. Using that as a code name for some rider that Basso owns could seem cute and very unforgettable. In hindsight add that inspectors would look no farther and it is Basso who has the problems and doing somethings like this is brilliant.

Jan says he won't take a DNA test because he is an athlete, not a criminal.... I guess he doesnt want to clear his name all that bad, or can't....

Still a stud though..

At least, Jan won the Tour in 1997 without a positive test...

At least, Jan won the Tour in 1997 without a positive test...

Then again, some tests are more sophisticated now and he may still have been doping, just not caught.

Landis is a punk. He needs to turn his hat around and shave the butt hair off his chin.

(And, as a side note; Tour officials need to keep those damned kids off the podium)

Landis is a punk. He needs to turn his hat around and shave the butt hair off his chin.



:D

Landis' personal doctor confirms positive results of carbon isotope test (IRMS)...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/02/sports/othersports/02landis.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin


The results of two types of tests have thrown Landis’s status into doubt. One of them, a sophisticated measure called a carbon isotope ratio test, will be difficult, if not impossible, for Landis to refute. The test examines the atomic makeup of testosterone in the urine and can determine if it is natural or synthetic.

Landis failed that test, according to a person inside the International Cycling Union with knowledge of the results. Landis’s personal doctor, Brent Kay, confirmed the finding.

Look, i believe that many who post here are Pro's/ former pro's / friends of former pro's etc...
I believe cycling is at the fore front of athletic doping, i do believe why some of you don’t need to be convinced of how much cheating actually goes around. I am a gym rat myself..... I see guys who are 150lbs one year and other years are 200 lbs of solid muscle. I see guys with no lifting form huge as hell, is it possible for someone to be a freak? Sure, but 10 -15 guys & girls, out of say 3 to 400 gym members, not a likely possibility. And nothing you or any will say will make me believe any different. I am pretty big 220 lbs 4% body fat etc... And I have pictures from 7 years till present of gains and nutrition etc... I have been lifting at the same place with the same people for a while. And some of my gains are marginal, some were big. But i am there with allot of other people day in and day out. And you get a pretty good idea of "natural" gains vs. "injected gains". Is it proof?...... Nope.... it’s a feeling and i have been doing it for many years and my experience tells me otherwise. So when people like "Euro" talks about the drug use and cheats, i tend to believe the guy. Did the Texan wonder boy cheat? Never tested positive except for the saddle sore cream, for which he had a Dr's note...... Do i feel comfortable saying he was clean when he was smashing on all of those others guys when they were doped up and he wasn't? Hell NO ........ It doesn't make sense that he was the beacon of athletic achievement cleanly when everyone else is loaded up with a few enhancements. From Riis "Mr. 60%" to Lemond "Captain EPO" to Merck's "amphetamines" to whomever else comments on the path cycling is going, they came before most and set the standard for what is taking place now.

Then again, some tests are more sophisticated now and he may still have been doping, just not caught.

True. Then, could it be that widespread 'roid usage took off in cycling around the same time it took off in other sports like baseball, maybe around '96 or so? (Sorry if this was asked elsewhere)

You know, to go off on a slight tangent, one of the criticisms of standardized testing in education is that everyone and everything gets focused on passing tests rather than learning. I guess it's human nature. The same effect appears to occur in cycling. What's "fair" is anything, as long as you pass the tests. Lance's ex-mechanic testified that Lance said something like "everyone does it" when he was confronted about some unlabeled pills.



This is the reason they travel with portable centrifuges to measure their hematacrit.

All you american's are such hypocrites. Where was everyone who is so concerned with due process now when all the riders were not allowed to race based upon pure tabloid speculation. And now 18 have been cleared and counting.

Landis and Armstrong couldn't have cheated because they are red-blooded american boys, but how did Armstrong beat Ullrich and Basso if they were such cheaters? And how come Landis was so vocal in his support of the doping controls until he got caught?

I hope Pereiro gets his trophy soon.

Actually, I'd bet the sentiment on this issue divides more along the lines of how long you've followed bike racing, than your country of origin. There are a lot of American posters on this forum in the camp that most of them dope, and it's likely that Landis did also. After you've followed the sport for awhile, it gets very hard to believe all the denials.

Landis' personal doctor confirms positive results of carbon isotope test (IRMS)...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/02/sports/othersports/02landis.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

Karlotta, could you do a cut and paste for those of us not registered with the NY Times.

Jan says he won't take a DNA test because he is an athlete, not a criminal.... I guess he doesnt want to clear his name all that bad, or can't....

Still a stud though..

I thought it was because there was no DNA in whole blood. Was that a different issue? I was pretty sure it was related to this... I'll have to go back and find it.

Why wouldn't DNA be present in whole blood?

Red cells have no nuclei therefore no DNA. However, any white cells in that blood would have nuclei and DNA.

So, if you commit a crime, and leave your blood at the scene, pick up all the white blood cells before you go? :)
Thanks Doc.

Karlotta, could you do a cut and paste for those of us not registered with the NY Times.

Gladly.


August 2, 2006
Experts Say Case Against Landis Is Tough to Beat
By JULIET MACUR and GINA KOLATA

After spending several days in New York, Floyd Landis has returned home to Southern California, where he will await his fate as Tour de France champion. But antidoping officials working on his case already have evidence that some experts say is convincing enough to show that Landis cheated to win the Tour, regardless of further testing or appeals.

Landis, 30, provided a urine sample after winning Stage 17 in the Alps with a long solo attack. That day, he climbed back into contention for the victory after a miserable performance a day earlier.

The results of two types of tests have thrown Landis’s status into doubt. One of them, a sophisticated measure called a carbon isotope ratio test, will be difficult, if not impossible, for Landis to refute. The test examines the atomic makeup of testosterone in the urine and can determine if it is natural or synthetic.

Landis failed that test, according to a person inside the International Cycling Union with knowledge of the results. Landis’s personal doctor, Brent Kay, confirmed the finding.

The cycling union said it expected the results of a test on Landis’s backup urine sample by Saturday morning, Paris time. If that test comes back positive, Landis would be stripped of his Tour title and would probably be suspended from cycling for two years. If the test comes back negative, the case would be dropped.

A screening on the backup sample will also aim to confirm the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone in the urine, which is the other type of test used in the case. The initial testing found a level of 11 to 1, well above the World Anti-Doping Agency’s limit of 4 to 1.

Several experts said the carbon isotope test ultimately mattered more than the T/E test because it shows that some of the testosterone found in the sample came from an outside source, not from a natural process in Landis’s body.

“It’s powerful evidence that’s pretty definitive,” said David Cowan, a professor at King’s College London and the director of the Drug Control Center in London, which is accredited by WADA. “That in itself is enough to pursue a case.”

In Landis’s case, the French national antidoping laboratory in Châtenay-Malabry performed the testing — not Cowan’s lab.

Still, Cowan said, most lab directors are careful to build a case against an athlete on much more than just one positive test, no matter how definitive a single test might be. A doping case in sports is treated like a criminal case, he said, with carefully gathered and documented evidence. He said the scientists at his laboratory retested a sample several times before announcing their results to the athlete and the authorities involved. He said they wanted to make sure their positive result was correct before moving on to the backup sample.

Landis said last week that he was expecting the worst because backup samples, or B samples, almost always confirm the initial result. But Kay said the B sample could come back negative.

“The carbon isotope was only mildly elevated,” he said. “We know, from a statistical standpoint, that the first result could have been a false positive.”

Testosterone can be administered by injection, pill, gel or time-released patch, like those mentioned in the Spanish doping scandal that implicated nearly 60 cyclists and others in the sport before this year’s Tour. Landis has denied using testosterone or any performance-enhancing drugs.

Nonetheless, Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an antidoping expert and associate professor at the New York University School of Medicine, said the evidence against Landis, taken as a whole, “would be hard to beat.”

He added: “Phase 1 was finding evidence from his body fluid that a doping violation occurred, and we have that. I don’t know how he will get around that.”

The carbon isotope test is used to look for testosterone abuse, and it came into use about six years ago, when companies produced equipment sensitive enough to do the test in urine samples.

It can cost about $300 more to test an athlete’s urine sample, but antidoping labs routinely use it when they have reason to suspect that an athlete was taking testosterone.

The test starts with an isolation of testosterone from the athlete’s urine. Then chemists determine the makeup of the carbon atoms that form the backbone of testosterone.

Ordinarily, carbon atoms are made up of six protons and six neutrons, giving them an atomic weight of 12. But occasionally, they have an extra neutron, giving them an atomic weight of 13.

By chance, soy plants are the source of most pharmaceutical testosterone. They tend to have slightly less carbon-13 than other plants that are more abundant in the human diet. Humans make testosterone from the food they eat, so their testosterone typically has more carbon-13 than the testosterone that drug companies synthesize from soy.

But these differences are tiny.

The test determines whether the testosterone in the athlete’s urine has less carbon-13 than another naturally occurring hormone in the urine, like cholesterol. The test is considered positive when the carbon isotope ratio — the amount of carbon-13 compared to carbon-12 — is three or more units higher in the athlete’s testosterone than it is in the comparison hormone. It is evidence that the testosterone in the urine was not made by the athlete’s body. Landis’s difference was 3.99, according to his own doctor.

“For me, that would be it,” said Donald H. Catlin, who runs the Olympic drug-testing laboratory at U.C.L.A.

The test could not, however, determine if someone had tampered with the urine sample or was negligent.

The lab that conducted the testing on Landis’s samples has previously been criticized for its handling of samples.

L’Équipe, a French sports newspaper, reported that samples taken from Lance Armstrong during the 1999 Tour de France were analyzed at the lab. Several of those samples, which were supposed to be used for research purposes only, later tested positive for EPO, an endurance-boosting drug.

The International Cycling Union commissioned a report that later cleared Armstrong of the doping allegations, partly because of the way the lab had handled the results. Armstrong lashed out at the lab, too.

But Christiane Ayotte, director of an antidoping lab in Montreal, said that the standards were lower for handling samples for research.

“It’s not fair to criticize them because of that,” she said. “When we’re talking about a routine analysis, the lab in Paris does high-quality work.”

I hope Pereiro gets his trophy soon.
He doesn't deserve it. And neither does Kloden. Sastre is my winner.

He doesn't deserve it. And neither does Kloden. Sastre is my winner.

Based on desire and effort throughout the stages, I agree.

They have bags of Ullrich's blood, from Fuentes' refrigerator, ready for re-packing. That's pretty strong evidence, don't you think? Jan could take a simple DNA test to prove that it's not his blood, but he refuses. It's tragic that some innocent riders have suffered, but they were not ALL innocent.


Oh I LOVE it! You know it's Ullrich's blood because???? It's red???? Give me a break. Ullrich is right not to give a DNA sample. He hasn't been given any of the evidence. He has no way of knowing how any of that blood got there. Don't forget that you hero, Armstrong, claimed that Ferrari was his doctor and even though Ferrari doped others, he didn't dope Armstrong. There are a million reasons why a clinic would have a cyclist's blood. No attorney worth his salt would turn over a DNA test without knowing what his client is being accused of.

WHAT!?! First of all, the stage winner and Pereiro are the only riders who didn't take the day off the day Phonak decided to ride in slow motion. Secondly, if Sastre/Kloden and their teams had been willing to chase down Landis on Stage 17, Landis wouldn't even be on the podium. Third, Sastre did a terrible time trial. Pereiro elevated his game with his best time trial ever. He totally deserves to win.

Read Julich's column on the day Phonak decided not to defend the jersey. He felt they shamed the yellow jersey. I agreed completely at the time and still do. The only OLN commentators I can stand are the two who actually rode the tour and they both agreed with this take. It's not surprising that CSC and T-Mobile were so meek given that those teams were built around Ullrich and Basso. If Basso, Vino and Ullrich had ridden it would have been a much more attack-laden, entertaining tour.

Phonak may have given it away, but Pereiro took it and ran with his. The arrogance Landis showed in thinking it was his to give away is shown again in his thinking he could get away with a testo patch.

Its all end-game strategies now for Landis and Phonak. Pick your favorite: soy milk? spiked massage oil? He could probably get a ride with a spanish squad in a couple years. Maybe he will even get to hook up with his old team mate Tyler.

I love Floyd but here is why I think he is guilty. My analysis has nothing to do with test results. It is based on listening to his initial telephone press conference and watching his TV press conference, and other things:

1. When first asked if he ever doped (in the telephone conference) he said "I am going to say no." Why not just "No."

2. In the TV press conference he said "I am not involved in a doping process." This is very un-Floyd and very Clintonian. Literally it means "I am not, right now, a week after the Tour and after having tested positive, doping." We know you aren't doping right now during this press conference Floyd. You answered a question no one asked.

3. In many interviews before the positive results, he talked about the "beer" he had after Stage 16. Then all of the sudden after the positive result he started mentioning two beers plus four shots of Jack Daniels he had in his room after the stage. I had never heard this before in any public statement. This was a day after the test results, and seems specifically aimed to fit into the public studies saying that alcohol may affect the T/E ratio. Also a little hard to believe he would ride like that in Stage 17 after 6 ounces of alcohol--after bonking from dehydration and lack of nutrition and heat in the prior stage.

4. His complete disappearance for 24-48 hours after the news came out, followed by the strange telephone news conference, followed by the strange TV news conference where he sounded like some United Nations envoy reading a bunch of Euro-Diplo-Techno speak, while looking like a rapper. Bizarre and not Floyd at all.

This is subjective, but if I was innocent and I was being falsely accused I would be shocked and outraged and angry and immediately out denying everything in the strongest, most unequivocal terms. He did not seem any of that. He gave only convoluted, lawyered-up defenses.

5. History of doping violations in the Phonak team.

6. Going on Larry King -- classic move of the notorious who need sympathetic, uncritical questioning.

I am very sympathetic to these guys. I think they think everyone does it, and that as long as they don't do it too much, and they do it just enough not to fail tests, they think it is OK. Then if they screw up and accidentally fail a test, they almost think of themselves as not-guilty.

Sort of like driving 64 MPH in a 55 MPH zone. Everyone else is doing it and you know the cops will only pull you over if you go 65.

Anyway, my analysis, for your praise and scorn....

Maybe Floyd will go the Mel Gibson route but I doubt it.

Do you mean blame it on Jewish people?

Lance has already played that card, blaming it on the French.