Road Cycling - Please help me pick a Ti builder

My current ride is a wonderful carbon...Calfee Luna. Can't imagine a much better ride, but I just want a 2nd bike. I mostly ride rolling to hilly terrain, and weight is an issue for me. I guess I have decided on Ti, but now want to find a builder:

Spectrum - within driving distance, but built by Merlin, cost ?
Serotta - within driving distance, big bucks
Seven - within driving distance, not as "custom", big bucks
Strong - far away, great price, like the head badge but not the logo
IF - within driving distance, hear great things, hate the logo

Don't want a Lightspeed or a Merlin, just don't.

I like "fast" club rides, hill climbing, and long distance cycling. Tried my first race this past summer, and may try a few more next year and my Calfee will take care of the racing.

Any comments, ideas?
Thanks

I suggest that you don't rule out Litespeed. I have had mine (2001 Classic) for almost 2 years and it is still a joy to ride. The quality is excelent - both workmanship and ride. The Litespeed staff have been very helpful with every request that I have made. I have put 10,000 + miles on mine and plan on keeping it forever. We have about 10 in our ride group of 40+ and I hear no complaints.

I understand, litespeed builds a good bike, but it seems like everyone has one. there are plenty of custom builders out there that will build you a custom ti bike. its nice to be within driving dist of a builder though. IF builds and nice bike, don't worry about the logo, worry about the ride. Dean builds a pretty cool ride (a friend has one built with campy). The new LeMonds look pretty cool with a mix of cabon and ti.

Have you considered scandium?

I suggest that you don't rule out Litespeed. I have had mine (2001 Classic) for almost 2 years and it is still a joy to ride. The quality is excelent - both workmanship and ride. The Litespeed staff have been very helpful with every request that I have made. I have put 10,000 + miles on mine and plan on keeping it forever. We have about 10 in our ride group of 40+ and I hear no complaints.

I'm sure Litespeed builds a nice bike, but I just don't want one...too many in my club already, and I want custom. I want the experience of going to the builder in person, and getting MY bike built for me.

As far as the IF logo...I know to pick the bike based on ride...can't you tell by my "short list" of potential builders...but I just don't want to look at the IF logo on every ride, and I'm sure the others on my list can build a comparable bike...at least. Come to think of it, I should have left IF off, but have heard such good things about their ride, value and customer experience.

I might be somewhat biased as a satisfied owner of a Legend Ti but I'd go with the Serotta. I like the concept and execution of the tapered tubing. Along with the size-cycle to customize the fit, Serotta can build a frame to meet your particular riding requirements. Plus, you get lots of paint options.

the IF headbadge on their ti frames is absolutely gorgeous!

and...why the hell wouldn't anyone want a merlin?! the cyrene is f*%$ing ENGRAVED!!!!

you get a ti bike, that handles great, plus! !!!all these badass laurels and cursive writing all HAND ETCHED into the frame!!!!

they build really amazingly beautiful bikes, and they stand behind them (as does every other company that you listed), but....they are really really really super dedicated to what they do. THEY MAKE THEIR OWN WELDING GAS FOR CRIPES SAKE!

can you tell that i like merlin a lot?

personally, i'd go with either merlin of IF...but i just only IF because their painter is really good.

I did an extensive amout of test riding and research last year and end up in a final choice between a spectrum and a Serotta Legend Ti.

Spectrum, Pluses, personal fit by Tom Kellogg, personal fit by Tom Kellogg, (did I mention personal fit by Mr kellogg), nice paint, personal design and inspection & acceptance of frame by Tom (produced by Merlin).

Spectrum Minuses (for me) frame produced by Merlin/lightspeed. Maybe it's the number of frames out there, but I heard too many quality problem stories to "risk" this much money on this frame. The other minus was that the build time was several months.

Serotta: Minuses. As with any custom, the final bike is fitter reliant. Get a great fitter, get a great bike. Thee convers is also true.

Serotta: Pluses. The ride. It is a unique ride foir TI. Having ridden all the high end TI (with the exception of Holland) nothing rides like a serotta. Ride one & you will instantly know what I mean. The look. The colorado concept tubing is beautiful, it's tapering is subtle, but once noticed, they draw the eye. The Paint. I didn't want the all polished TI look. I thought Serotta had a great paint shop. Turnaround. 6 weeks.

Others I eliminated & why:

Lightspeed. Call me shallow but too many of them around, also quality concerns.
Seven. Didn't like their paint shop, hated the wound up fork (they have since changed fork options, I think).
IF. Wasn't impressed with the ride. (I rode it right after the Serotta).
Lemond. Bike was way too twitchy for me.

YMMV. Take your time, it's a lot of money, enjoy the "search"

Len

i haven't put many miles on any of the brands you mention except for serotta, which i own (a steel CSi).

i've ridden a few merlins and sevens briefly and they seem to be delightful bikes, and i know many happy owners, but i can tell you that serotta is a real class act and you will get a bike that fits perfectly.

as for IF, they have some great looking bikes, but according to their website, the crown jewel has some really weird geometry. there was a thread on this on the serotta discussion board. though i don't know much on the theory of frame sizing and measurements, i know what numbers seem reasonable, and the CJ has some weird numbers.

basically, the IF CJ has a quite short head tube, relaxed seat tube angle, relatively long top tube and long wheel base. this leaves you close to the ground in front and with a bike that i can't imagine would handle well, though someone must think differently.

brunning, if you get the crown jewel custom built (why would anyone pay that much and not get a custom?) they spec the seat tube and head tube to what you say you want, or what it should be after they size you.

i agree. since their stock geometry is very strange, i don't know why they would even publish, assuming they build most of their bikes to the rider's specs.

i'll add that there are a couple of people riding absolutely beautiful IF track bikes that show up at nyc's critical mass every month.

i'd love to own one of those.

My current ride is a wonderful carbon...Calfee Luna. Can't imagine a much better ride, but I just want a 2nd bike. I mostly ride rolling to hilly terrain, and weight is an issue for me. I guess I have decided on Ti, but now want to find a builder:

Spectrum - within driving distance, but built by Merlin, cost ?
Serotta - within driving distance, big bucks
Seven - within driving distance, not as "custom", big bucks
Strong - far away, great price, like the head badge but not the logo
IF - within driving distance, hear great things, hate the logo

Don't want a Lightspeed or a Merlin, just don't.

I like "fast" club rides, hill climbing, and long distance cycling. Tried my first race this past summer, and may try a few more next year and my Calfee will take care of the racing.

Any comments, ideas?
Thanks

Think I should add Moots to the list...saw one today and it was nice. IF just has to join the Lightspeed and Merlin as "off" the list.

I started pricing new, custom, Ti from the likes of Spectrum and Serotta...yeesh, I can get to over $6K EASY, and even higher the way I want it spec'd.

Maybe this is a real good deal if it goes for under $3K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3647601178#ebayphotohosting

I'll off the board for Bianchi.

Dean builds a pretty cool ride (a friend has one built with campy).

I agree, Dean's bikes ride great and the craftsmanship is as good as any other Ti builder (I have one), but my experience with them was ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. They'll never get the respect in the industry with their current business practices. If you want the full story, email me.

Have you considered any Canadian builders of Ti? It wil cost WAY less than most of the builders that you listed. On the west coast, we have the Epic brand. I hear that their builds are just like Dean's.

http://www.epicti.com

http://www.epicti.com/Swift.jpg

Think I should add Moots to the list...saw one today and it was nice. IF just has to join the Lightspeed and Merlin as "off" the list.

I started pricing new, custom, Ti from the likes of Spectrum and Serotta...yeesh, I can get to over $6K EASY, and even higher the way I want it spec'd.

Maybe this is a real good deal if it goes for under $3K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3647601178#ebayphotohosting

I think I'm going used. It looks like I can get this for less than half of a new Spectrum or Serotta, and with the extra $4K I can get some real cool accessories.

Thanks

I've got a Tommaso Ti bike. It's a 3AL 2.5V. The frame comes with carbon forks but no headset. Here's the link if you want to check it out. Tommaso frame (http://www.getawaybikes.com/Detail.cfm?Categoryid=128&BrandID=9&ProductID=848&CFID=3318897&CFTOKEN=5306083)

anyone mention airborne?

I think I'm going used. It looks like I can get this for less than half of a new Spectrum or Serotta, and with the extra $4K I can get some real cool accessories.

Thanks

sounds like a plan...I just don't get it, I see people selling very high end bikes with very low mileage all the time.

used custom bikes are a great way to go, providing the frame fits you. i browse ebay for used high end stuff from time to time, and also read the boards at the serotta.com forums and see things selling at relatively low prices.

i guess it's hard to unload something that you custom ordered to fit your body, but considering what a bike like a serotta ottrott can run - ottrott st with the trick shock-sucking rear ($5k frame, another $300 for custom paint, of course), painted F2 carbon fork ($675), nicely outfitted with a good group ($2500 for a nice new campy group?) and wheels (why not get some topolinos to go with that for $800), used is a great way to go.

Used is definitely the way to go, if you know your size. You can generally get all measurements from the original fabricators websites and most of them will talk to you about their older bikes, as well. And it is almost impossible to "wear out" a Ti bike. If it was well made and had reasonable care it should essentially last 'forever'.

I agree, Dean's bikes ride great and the craftsmanship is as good as any other Ti builder (I have one), but my experience with them was ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. They'll never get the respect in the industry with their current business practices. If you want the full story, email me.

Have you considered any Canadian builders of Ti? It wil cost WAY less than most of the builders that you listed. On the west coast, we have the Epic brand. I hear that their builds are just like Dean's.

http://www.epicti.com

http://www.epicti.com/Swift.jpg



Rippin... I am sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with Dean Bikes. I must say that my experience while having Dean build me a custom frame was outstanding (the frame took a long time to be built) but John and the guys at Dean treated me great, I could not be more happy. But most importantly my new frame is awesome. As you said Dean's stuff is a good as any of the other big names in titanium frames.