Electric Bikes - Why The Trashing of E-Bikes

A customer wrote in to a BC ebike dealer to buy another bike.Apparently got cut off by a car and piled into the side.The body fairings and front suspension absorbed the impact on this scooter style ebike.She said she lifted slightly in the seat and settled back down,and said if she still rode her bicycle,she would have been laying on the other side of the car.

More resources than what,say,A CAR or SUV?

A customer wrote in to a BC ebike dealer to buy another bike.Apparently got cut off by a car and piled into the side.The body fairings and front suspension absorbed the impact on this scooter style ebike.She said she lifted slightly in the seat and settled back down,and said if she still rode her bicycle,she would have been laying on the other side of the car.

IF she was on a regular bike she would have gone over the handlebars..... on the other hand.... a bike with a rear hub motor and a pile of battery's.... im inclined to believe she would have had a similar experience to the scooter.

These e-Scooters may appear safer because of the body work, but if it's not structural then I don't see how it actually would protect people. I also think these e-Scooters would have a longer stopping distance and less maneuverability than a real bike, such as a traditional e-Bike or a regular human-powered bike, because they're heavier. And they're heavier for purely cosmetic/image-based reasons, not functional reasons.

Another poster alluded to it, but I think we're forgetting about another safety issue: how safe these would be in a collision with a pedestrian or another cyclist.

I think that if one of these collided with a ped at 25 MPH on a bike path, it would be devastating, and much worse than (for example) a traditional road bike.

If I saw one of these on a multi-use path with children or other pedestrians walking around, I would call the police immediately to get that person off the path. On my bike I'd try ot catch up and stop them -- I can make 400 W when pressed, enough to keep up maybe.

30 miles assisted doesn't cut it. For less money anyone can have unlimited range along with more comfort, safety, speed, and durability. Ebikes only make sense for a very limited market. For me I'd much rather ride as far as I want on a light and good handling normal bike then get assist on a severely overweight bike for the first 30 miles and then have to try and pedal the slug the rest of my ride.


If this limitation is preventing you from getting out of your car, then you'll have to wait. The best ebikes generally will give you about 30 miles of ASSISTED range on a 4 hour recharge. However, if you this limitation is preventing you from changing over from a regular bicycle, then, I don't see it as a valid excuse unless you need to bike more than 30 miles in one day on a regular basis.

30 miles assisted doesn't cut it. For less money anyone can have unlimited range along with more comfort, safety, speed, and durability. Ebikes only make sense for a very limited market. For me I'd much rather ride as far as I want on a light and good handling normal bike then get assist on a severely overweight bike for the first 30 miles and then have to try and pedal the slug the rest of my ride.

And that of course is just your oppinion.

Fact is : eBikes are excellent commuters. And most people going to the office would prefer not to sweat and stink when they arrive.

That's one advantage eBikes have. There are plenty of others as well.

eBikes may be a limited market, but it's growing every years as the price of gas goes up. Case and point: everywhere around here (Toronto) shops are back-ordered on eBikes and eScooters. The demand is far more than the supply.

A customer wrote in to a BC ebike dealer to buy another bike.Apparently got cut off by a car and piled into the side.The body fairings and front suspension absorbed the impact on this scooter style ebike.She said she lifted slightly in the seat and settled back down,and said if she still rode her bicycle,she would have been laying on the other side of the car.

That's why these things are better for the roads and are not suitable for the trails. Again, I say, these things are more dangerous for other trail users than a regular bicycle... to dangerous.

RIDE AND LET RIDE

Why all the thrashing on the websites regarding scooter style e-bikes? As much as I am tempted to defend these new additions to the road, I find myself holding back with certain individuals because I know it just sparks more anger.
Is it because of their anonymity that they muster up this kind resentment on something as trivial as a scooter style e-bike. Have our lives become so empty that they we derive some sort of pleasure from judging what other people are riding. Who cares whether the power assisted bike looks like a bicycle or it looks like a Vespa. Is that not the appeal of the bike, with the comfortable seat, and it’s sleek styling, not to mention the motorcycle style headlights and turn signals that “drives” the person to purchase that vehicle?
Is it not the look and colour and features that attract us to a certain automobile or mobile phone? The people attracted to the scooter style bike, in general are not interested in owning or riding a traditional bicycle. Whether it is for health reasons or simple logistics, is that not the choice of the individual? Is it not beneficial to all to have one less car on the road? Does it have to be a bicycle or a car? Does it have to be so black and white….If your mother came riding home on a scooter style e-bike would you feel the same anger and berate her on a public forum or would you perhaps just keep your thoughts to yourself ..
What is it about forums that make people so judgmental and opinionated?
The people who own the SUVs and the Tanks on the roads are feeling the pain of the price of fuel and are slowly turning to cheaper alternatives. Perhaps their reasons are not necessarily altruistic and saving the planet is not at the top of their “to-do” list but who cares…if the result is one less car off the road?
The scooter style e-bike and power assisted bike are new additions to the road. They do not have to fall under the bicycle mentality nor is it important for the bicycle puritans to like it. . The E-Bike is a new transportation alternative offered by the government that fortunately is concerned with the environment
Is that not a good thing? I have personally found the biggest knockers of scooter style e-bikes is the bicyclist himself (herself). If there were more bikers on the road, whether it is power assisted or not, we would end up with more paths because of this demand…or would you like to see my research?
Pocket bikes and such were taken off the road because they were unsafe….A scooter style e-bike is still under review as is a power assisted bike….I am allowed to use the word bike by the way when referring to the e-bikes. They have been accepted and used worldwide and their owners seem to love them. Why all the thrashing? I have been riding my scooter style e-bike now for almost two years now and personally I feel safer on my bike than I ever did on my pedal bike. I enjoy the ride and love the concept and encourage others to at least consider it as a viable option….That is of course if it is okay with you cyclists?

Certainly my bike is not of the regular x-mart variety but with my power consumption rates I can make it nearly 100miles with ASSISTED riding. OR i can make it a little over 20miles with unassisted motorcycle speeds, to me thats the great flexibility of my ebike, I can make it much farther then i would ever hope to just pedaling and do it much faster. Then using the same vehicle i can get to work faster then using my car all the while it costs about as much as filling my gas tank for 8 months. Oh and I can still pedal it unassisted, When I melted my cheap overly modded controller I pedaled about 7 miles home, it was a little unplesant but still much better then pushing it or just walking.

I am a little surprised to see people complaining about the MTB style ebikes, I thought people were just going off on the scooters but I guess some people don't like MTB style either. As far as people complaining about their cost efficiency my full build cost 1400 and gets me a lot further, much faster then i could possibly go just pedaling. For a reference point most of the new road bikes i see around cost that much by themselves. As for them not being green enough.... with my usage patterns my LiFePO4 battery's are rather environmentally friendly, recyclable and should last me for over 10 years. As far as energy efficiency there is a really cool paper that compares electric to human powered and takes quite a few factors into account. www.electric-bikes.com/betterbikes/Ebike_Energy.pdf

Maybe we should have a seperate threads for bashing scooters vs bashing MTB style ebikes.

My grandfather told me that when horse and buggy ruled the roads, the people who yelled the loudest against the use of automobiles on the road, because they were loud and dangerous and scaring the horses eventually were owners of them. People fear what they don't understand. Is a scooter safer than a bicycle? Personally I would say yes, in my opinion. I think bicycles in general are the most dangerous vehicle on the road. I have one and I ride it, but that is my opinion. I would never want them off the road, nor would I judge someone for riding one, but they are dangerous. It doesn't matter who's fault it is when you get hit....you're hurt the driver of the car isn't. One day when we are all old and grey and not quite ready for a mobility scooter, the scooter style is at least another option...Speak to anyone that owns a scooter style e-bike and ask them their opinion of the comfort and safety and joy they experience..and it is their opinion that counts.

E-scooters are fine. They just shouldn't be on bike trails. Nor should e-bikes be powered on bike trails which is filled with peds and bikes and isn't designed for speed. Respect others and don't abuse the rules too much or else we will all suffer when new, more restrictive laws are passed.

I have noticed that most cyclists on traditional bicycles do not come to a complete stop at designated stops, because of the effort it takes to build up momentum again. Because this is not the case with power on demand, I find that the scooter style riders in general do not break the same law and are more likely to come to a complete stop. I also have noticed the speed going downhill that most cyclist achieve, so they have the ability to get up the hill on the other side. Once again, we have the power to make it up a hill, so this move is not necessary.
I can ride comfortably at 5km per hour on my e-bike on a bike trail as can a cyclist....It is not the vehicle that is a problem it is the rider. I have seen many cyclists at a speed not conducive to the pedestrian traffic. That is why many parks want them banned as well...How do you cyclist feel about that? One bad rider ruins it for everyone. If a mobility scooter is allowed on three or four wheels, why not a two wheeled if the same slow speed is achieved? Example: If a physically disabled tax paying citizen wants to cut through a park on a bicycle path at a slow speed, what business is it of anybodies if he or she is riding on two wheels, three or four and if the speed is attained by muscular power or battery assist?

E-scooters are fine. They just shouldn't be on bike trails. Nor should e-bikes be powered on bike trails which is filled with peds and bikes and isn't designed for speed. Respect others and don't abuse the rules too much or else we will all suffer when new, more restrictive laws are passed.

I ride my ebike on the trails all the time. You can't even tell it's an ebike unless you really know what to look for.

It's just as maneouverable, nimble and uncomfortable as a regular bike.

As for the rules, it's 100% legal and follows the rules. I'm even more legal than regular bikes... I stop at stop signs.

I thought I might ask just one or two questions:

What percentage of time are Veloteq riders pedaling their e-bikes? For example, on a traditional road bike, no electric hub or anything, I'd say people pedal about 85% of the time.

Second, what do you think this marketing image from Veloteq is trying to say?

http://veloteq.com/veloteqgallery.com/picts/joe-commuter-galv.jpg


I use my pedals only to increase speed up steep hills and to take the stress off the battery...so not often as I have bad knees.

My Guess to your next question is "Enjoy the Freedom without the Pollution"

You are making the assertion, the burden of proof is on you.

who was it that said "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth"?

That's what I'm hearing here. The pilot program is not to prove electric scooters are safer than bicycles. On their own web site the Ontario Government quite clearly states:
"The goal of Ontario's pilots is to test and evaluate the operation and regulation of:

power-assisted bicycles as conventional bicycles on Ontario roads; operators must be 16 years of age or older and all operators must wear an approved bicycle helmet, and
low-speed vehicles driven by park employees who have a valid driver's licence in a controlled, low-speed park environment.

I know you think you'll make a lot of money selling these electric scooters, and I wish you luck. Don't call them bicycles and don't make claims you can't substantiate.

It was Dr Paul Joseph Goebbels, Hitlers Minister of Propanada who coined the phrase, and obviously some posters believe it works. I agree let's stick to the facts on this thread and stop with the silly unsupportable claims. Imagine if you were a newbie to this forum. What would you think about buying an e-bike?

Entertaining thread!:D

A bit of interesting stuff from the same Ontario Ministry of Transportation webpage quoted in the Godwin's Law post above.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/

Power-Assisted/Electric Bicycles

Can be operated on roads in Ontario

Effective October 3, 2006, the Province of Ontario began a three-year pilot project to evaluate the use of power-assisted bicycles........

(I'm not about to post the whole website here. But there's an interesting note at the bottom of the page.)


NOTE: A commitment has been made to evaluate the pilot prior to its three-year expiry. The intent of the ministry’s pilot was to allow e-bikes that look and operate like conventional bikes in order to promote a safe, healthy and environmentally friendly alternative to current transportation modes.

The ministry has become aware of scooter-style vehicles that technically meet the pilot’s e-bike definition, but not the intent, as they are not primarily operated by muscular power due to their heavy weight. Therefore, in addition to evaluating how safely the e-bike can integrate with other motor vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians, the emergence of the scooter-style e-bikes requires the ministry to also assess if the pilot’s original intent continues to be appropriate. The ministry may clarify its position on the original intent of the pilot when final legislation is drafted.

So it would appear that the scooter-style e-bikes will be in for some additional scrutiny, no matter what the outcome of the pilot.

"The ministry has become aware of scooter-style vehicles that technically meet the pilot’s e-bike definition, but not the intent, as they are not primarily operated by muscular power due to their heavy weight. Therefore, in addition to evaluating how safely the e-bike can integrate with other motor vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians, the emergence of the scooter-style e-bikes requires the ministry to also assess if the pilot’s original intent continues to be appropriate. The ministry may clarify its position on the original intent of the pilot when final legislation is drafted.".

This has been my point EXACTLY all along. I feel like I've been banging my head against a brick wall since I first posted to this thread!

All the supporters of e-scooters base their arguments on their feelings- i.e. "I feel safer on my e-scooter...It stops quicker, and offers more protection...etc...etc." No valid, logical arguments, just feelings...If your mother came riding home on a scooter style e-bike would you feel the same anger and berate her on a public forum..." Again, an emotional argument, not a logical one.

Those of us that don't support e-scooters, however, base our arguments against them on facts, logic, and physics. All the extraneous bodywork on an e-scooter does nothing to enhance its performance or safety. All it does is add a lot of unnecessary weight that degrades its acceleration, range and stopping distance, all in the name of style. It also makes it much more dangerous in the event of a collision with a pedestrian on a bike path or sidewalk.

Face it, the only reason the e-scooters have pedals is to meet the letter of the law. They are in no way MEANT to be pedaled. I myself have NEVER seen anyone riding one of these pedaling, EVER. Could you imagine Harley Davidson putting pedals on their bikes and claiming they were now therefore bicycles?

Every time I have ever seen a rider on an e-scooter, they were either hugging the curb, riding in the gutter, or riding on the sidewalk, against the flow of traffic, or riding on a bike path. Basically these riders are scared shyteless of riding in traffic. They do not take the lane, ride aggressively, or in the style of "vehicular cycling" at all.

It is because of this that I argue that they are "neither fish nor fowl". They don't belong on the roads, and they are a danger to others on bike paths and sidewalks. My greatest fear is that, because of this, the Ontario Ministry of Transport will ban all e-bikes together, or impose unnecessary restrictions such as licensing and insurance on all of them.

E-scooters, because of their weight and size, and the obvious fact that they are not meant to be pedaled, have more in common with mopeds, and should face the same restrictions, insurance, and licensing requirements as mopeds

If you want to buy and ride an e-scooter on the roads, that's your business. Just don't claim that it's a bicycle and feck everything up for the rest of us.

If a mobility scooter is allowed on three or four wheels, why not a two wheeled if the same slow speed is achieved? Example: If a physically disabled tax paying citizen wants to cut through a park on a bicycle path at a slow speed, what business is it of anybodies if he or she is riding on two wheels, three or four and if the speed is attained by muscular power or battery assist?


# of wheels or where the power comes from is not the matter. It is the weight of the vehicle that makes it dangerous.

Length: 52
Width: 24
Total Weight: 207lbs (w/o batteries)
Front tires: 13 pneumatic
Rear Tires: 13 pneumatic
Drive System: 110amp controller
Suspension: Full spring
Motor Size: 4-pole
Max Speed: 5.8mph
Max Range per Charge: up to 30 miles


The weight of this mobility scooter is 207 pounds without batteries..and they are capable of 15 kmper hour....Shouldn't they require insuring as well? They can do damage at that speed because of their weight. Speed with little weight is also an issue, and is capable of harming a pedestrian or small child walking through the park...or on a sidewalk like so many cyclists seem to think they belong....My scooter weighs 132 pounds with battery.
I am 54 years old I do not ride recklass, nor on a sidewalk. Kids on Bicycles do...Lets insure them. I use my bike for short commutes instead of my car...That is exactly the intent of the pilot program, regardless of what you or another beaurocrat thinks, I am here to tell you that it is a great alternative,,,My Opinion. Cars are dangerous, bicycles are dangerous and skateboarding is dangerous. The speed of an e-bike is maxed at 32 on ideal conditions. The average speed is probably closer to 24 km per hour. When I go to the mall in the suburbs on my scooter style e-bike a distance of 10 km, I am passed by enthusiastic cyclists on my non pollluting journey
and I am to be off the road because of the danger factor??? I feel safer on my e-bike because of it;s presence on the road. I am not whipping through cars like a cyclist. If we are going to bring in the danger factor then, all cyclists should wear helmets regardless of age, and should be insured and bikes should be registered. I ride one and I understand the benefits as an alternative form of transportation. To insure and plate them and treat them like a motor bike is not only rediculous but nobody would buy one and would be back in their cars again. Defeats the whole purpose of the vehicle. The riders of these bikes are not cycling customers, they are automobile customers.This vehicle attracts a much larger audience. I meet many others on the road with a scooter style e-bike and they are not the bicycling kind... We want people out of their cars for short commutes, and this is working.. Big Time! 1000s have been sold for this very reason...If they require insurance and plates as some suggest, you can kiss this e-bike goodbye and you will have the same person driving beside you in a car...I really expected a more open mind should exist especially from cyclists...You above all people should appreciate that perhaps another part of the population wishes to experience the feeling of coasting along in the great outdoors. Not everybody can pedal 10 km to work....Not everybody wants to pedal 10 km to work. In my opinion after 45 years on a bicycle and 2 years on this product, they don't go fast enough to require the government to have a hand in my pocket once again.....I would gladly accept a one time registration fee of $125.00 and then why not grab $50.00 off you guys at the same time....careful what you wish for...

I like electric assist bikes. I think they fill a need for handicapped people. Better than cars, but not as 'green' as a regular bike.

The veloteq thing is not a bike. As I see it, it is a mo-ped. A motorized pedal-able scooter. An electric bike is a bicycle with an electric motor. The veloteq is a scooter with a couple poorly engineered pedals glued onto it.

Bottom Line Guys is this....Insure these and Plate them and you will get your wish...they will be off the road...No one, including myself would pay to go 30 km per hour....A bicycle does not cut it for me nor 95% of scooter style riders....Back in the Car we go just to get milk bread and juice. If the government has the same mentality then this is what will happen and all you nay sayers can be very happy with yourselves and your negativity. It doesn't have to be a bike...it can be called whatever you want...but it fills a different void and attracts a diiferent customer....
I promise I will stop calling them a bike if you guys open up a bit...LOL

Typically, mopeds are restricted to 30-75 km/h (18-47 mph) and engines less than 50 cc

Quit Comparing!
I agree this is not a bicycle....it is however an E-Bike. something new and something good.

the emergence of the scooter-style e-bikes requires the ministry to also assess if the pilot’s original intent continues to be appropriate. The ministry may clarify its position on the original intent of the pilot when final legislation is drafted.

That statement sounds very positive for scooter style bikes!

This has been my point EXACTLY all along. I feel like I've been banging my head against a brick wall since I first posted to this thread!


Think you've been doing it alot longer then that ;)

The common sense that people have is that the bigger it is, the more dangerous it is. So you're making a claim that's counterintuitive.

Interesting statment, I thought people buy bigger cars because it makes them feel safer

HEAVIER = SLOWER ACCELERATION, LONGER STOPPING DISTANCES, LESS RANGE, + GREATER DAMAGE UPON IMPACT, AS WELL AS GREATER DIFFICULTY UPRIGHTING A FALLEN BIKE.

I think you're overestimating the disadvantages of heavier e-bikes. Slower acceleration, less range, and longer stopping distance assumes that they do not have heavy-duty brakes and big batteries/motors (which they often do have).

It's really easy to right a fallen motorcycle, by the way. And they're taller/heavier than e-scooters.

Electric scooters are safer then bikes

So, you admit that electric scooters are NOT bikes then?

So, you admit that electric scooters are NOT bikes then?

No, There Electric Scooter Bikes :)

I will refrain from calling them bicycles

The name's not important. Allowing them to travel in bike lanes, multi use paths and requiring the same licence and insurance requirnments as bicycles is very important to me.

Today I had a older gentleman come for a test ride. A couple months back he had double knee surgery. It was hard enough for him to get his leg through a step through scooter style bike. He would have never been able to mount a traditional style bike. He wants to be able to ride to the local coffee shop to meet his buddies. Why should he be required to get a licence? Why should he not be able to use the safety of a public multi use path?
This person has worked and paid taxes all his life. Why would he be subjected to harrasment from posters like autoworker and electrogreen? If their so confident on their bikes, let them ride on the roads with the cars. Instead we petition to get the elderly banned from using the very paths their tax dollars went to fund???

Why would he be subjected to harrasment from posters like autoworker and electrogreen?

PLEASE!!! The only place I harass e-scooter riders in here on BikeForums. I'm really very polite to them in the real world, in the same way that I don't diss the disabled. :twitchy: My momma brung me up real good. :love:

bike
Noun
Informal a bicycle or motorcycle
hc_dict()Collins Essential English Dictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/misc/HarperCollinsProducts.aspx?English) 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

I think we can agree that a "scooter style" e-bike is a bike...the "bi" part of that word meaning two referring to the number of wheels the vehicle has....

I had a great 15 km ride yesterday and the only honk I got was from a guy passing by in a Smart Car....who gave me a thumbs up. Unfortunate that there is this negative mentality to such a positive product...

Overall, the biggest knockers seem to be from the cycling community, not all of course but in general. Methinks they don't want to share. The parks commission would be next as knockers. They would be happier if their were no bicycles on the path, no kids and no dogs. Helluva world we live in nowadays....It seems to be okay to load a bicycle down with a 250 pound person and no one plays the weight card...but put a little cosmetic fairings into the equation to dress up their bike....I have no problem stopping my 132 pound bike with my 150 pound body on it with my drum brakes that are on my bike. My loud audible horn, and my large motorcyle style headlight offers me a lot of safety features riding around at night. My bright coloured cosmetic fairings also catch the eye of any passing motorist.....I of course would never be so bold to ride on the sidewalk as my bicycle cousins seem to do....I guess they think it is their god given right to break the law and pass children on the sidewalk on their way to school...after all....they ride a bicycle...and they can do whatever they want and think whatever they want...and judge whatever they want....too bad we can't play in the sandbox together nicely...LOL

I have changed alot of minds by letting the knockers ride my bike...then all of sudden they start to come around.... they are just a really nice alternative from pedalling and driving...and deserve to be anywhere a bicycle is allowed to be...

^^^^^^You generalize all bicyclists as law breakers. Bicyclists should follow the law. I do. You try to use the lawbreakers to justify your quesitonable use of a motor vehicle as a bicycle.
Your scooter is a motor vehicle and should be treated as such.

I have noticed that most cyclists on traditional bicycles do not come to a complete stop at designated stops, because of the effort it takes to build up momentum again. Because this is not the case with power on demand, I find that the scooter style riders in general do not break the same law and are more likely to come to a complete stop. I also have noticed the speed going downhill that most cyclist achieve, so they have the ability to get up the hill on the other side. Once again, we have the power to make it up a hill, so this move is not necessary.
I can ride comfortably at 5km per hour on my e-bike on a bike trail as can a cyclist....It is not the vehicle that is a problem it is the rider. I have seen many cyclists at a speed not conducive to the pedestrian traffic. That is why many parks want them banned as well...How do you cyclist feel about that? One bad rider ruins it for everyone. If a mobility scooter is allowed on three or four wheels, why not a two wheeled if the same slow speed is achieved? Example: If a physically disabled tax paying citizen wants to cut through a park on a bicycle path at a slow speed, what business is it of anybodies if he or she is riding on two wheels, three or four and if the speed is attained by muscular power or battery assist?

If you follow this logic to it's end, then motorcycles, cars, and trucks should be allowed onto bike paths as well. I mean, hey it's not the vehicle, it's the operator, right? I mean I can drive my car at 5km/h, so why can't I drive on the bike path?

74200

Look how nice they look together....one less car on the road....

If you follow this logic to it's end, then motorcycles, cars, and trucks should be allowed onto bike paths as well. I mean, hey it's not the vehicle, it's the operator, right? I mean I can drive my car at 5km/h, so why can't I drive on the bike path?

Maddyfish...It is you who is being rediculous.....

^^^^^^You generalize all bicyclists as law breakers. Bicyclists should follow the law. I do. You try to use the lawbreakers to justify your quesitonable use of a motor vehicle as a bicycle.
Your scooter is a motor vehicle and should be treated as such.

The department of transportation has already classified 500 watts, 32 km per hour limit, capable of being propelled by muscular power, etc...not to be deemed a motor vehicle....and to be treated as a bicycle....whether you agree or not is fortunately of no concern to anyone...if what you were saying was true, they would have been off the road 2 years ago....this was discussed and settled along time ago...
You are obviously against electric bikes in general because of their battery assist...must be nice to be young and healthy...god forbid you are not capable of pedalling anymore because you would require a licence and insurance to travel a mere 32 km per hour to go to the corner store...all of sudden you are on the cash grab side of the government...to bike to the store?

BTW...I put in the disclaimer that "most" bicyclists...not all....and this is from what I have observed...not hearsay...

^^^^^^You generalize all bicyclists as law breakers. Bicyclists should follow the law. I do. You try to use the lawbreakers to justify your quesitonable use of a motor vehicle as a bicycle.
Your scooter is a motor vehicle and should be treated as such.

Nope! Under the law it's still an eBike.

Just because something has a motor on it doesn't mean it's a motor vihicle.

Example: My 2HP remote control car isn't considered a motor vehicle. My nephew's Lego Mindstorms (robotics) has a few electric motors. That's not a motor vehicle.

Heck, even those electric powered go-peds (skaeboard with handlebars) aren't considered motor vehicles.

I certainly do not mean to bash cyclists...I have been one longer than a e-biker.....I do not think the government should interfere with biking of any sorts at a certain speed. 32 km per hour was deemed to be a safe cycling speed regardless of the mode of power...500 watts is the same output a healthy individual attains to travel that speed. I tend to get defensive and combatant with anyone that does not understand the above...
The Department of Transportation conducted a two month study with 369 individuals on power assisted bikes, both Power Assist and Power on Demand...In their findings they found this power and speed safe enough to allow the pilot project in the first place...There are millions of scooter style riders in the world who ride one and agree with that the government should stay out of our pockets at this speed....only some cylists and some motorists disagree..what else is new...not everyone can agree on everything....

If you follow this logic to it's end, then motorcycles, cars, and trucks should be allowed onto bike paths as well. I mean, hey it's not the vehicle, it's the operator, right? I mean I can drive my car at 5km/h, so why can't I drive on the bike path?

Don't be stupid.

The law puts vehicles into different categories for a reason.

if we were to follow YOUR logic, then these things should be allowed on roads as well:

http://www.bizbuzzmedia.com/Admin/ImageGallery/BizBuzzMedia/biglorryblog/bigdump.jpg

:rolleyes:

Don't be stupid man!

I actually applaud the government to allow us a three year pilot in the first place...They did their homework and realized a need for change....unfortunately there are still close minded, tunnel vision people in the world...I know the same knockers of this product would be up in arms if the government decided to grab a little cash off the cylists with perhaps a one time $35.00 registration fee on the bicycle. The bike trails are not that big of deal to even argue about...the bigger issue is that we have an over abundance of motor vehicles on the road driving and polluting for short commutes. Both styles of e-bikes attract a different and larger audience than just one. As an option to driving both styles are a positive step in the right direction...Licence and create mandatory insurance on either one would drive thousands of people back into cars to go a couple of kilometres....I am glad certain individuals are not in a position to make decisions in regards to planetary concerns...or this planet would be doomed.

So I looked up the Veloteqs. Probably scooters, and definitely interesting. How fast and how far can those things go?

They won't even maintain the regular bike parts. I just don't get the attitude. It is contrary to business profitmaking. So now I will become my own bike mechanic... maybe I should print up business cards.. LOL!

That's what I was beefing about on my "scolded" thread. I understand not being able to warranty something that has been altered, but to outright refuse to take my money for a repair to the biycle components when I'm not even expecting a warranty? Come on!

...If you're in Arizona, toss me one of those business cards! :D (Actually, there are some shops that will work on them. In fact, I paid a shop to install my Bionx. ...But I do live in a huge metro area with lots of options.)

WAAAHHH! You hurt my feelings!

Lots of name calling and character assassination going on here, but hey, I'm an autoworker, I'm used to it!

Love me or hate me, I don't really care. Just refute my criticisms and arguments against the scooter-style e-bikes, or STFU!!!

If you or anyone else wants to ride a 175lb hideous parody of a quasi-motorcycle, be my guest. Just keep off the bike paths, and don't try to justify it in the name of the environment or claim that you're riding a bicycle, because you come up short on all counts. You just appear as dorky wannabee motorcycle riders who don't have the balls to get licensed and ride the real thing.



...And who's doing the character assassination here?

Honestly, I like my Bionx for reasons that have been articulated on this thread. I wanted to buy something from at least somewhere in North America. (I wish the U.S. would create a small industry around ebikes, instead of relying on other countries to make them for us, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.) I like the weight, the fact that I can attach it to a variety of bicycles, the pedaling aspect, etc.

However, I'm not hatin' on those who like the scooter style. Here's my "logical argument" for the scooter-style ebike. People who buy them like them for reasons of their own just as I like my set-up for reasons of my own. I don't think it's necessary for them to justify themselves to other e-bikers on this forum.

I do have some concerns about where they should be ridden. I don't think it's safe to take that much weight and speed potential on MUP's that wind through public parks. They seem to belong more on the street, maybe in the bike lanes if they are as slow (20 MPH or less) as other legal ebikes.

Aside from the idea of looking cooler because you're on a scooter instead of a bike I still have a really hard time understanding why someone would want one over a MTB or a recumbent. At the same time its one less hummer and I would rather live with a bunch of dumb(image obsessed) scooters then a bunch of blind SUVs.

Back to the reasons for a scooter.... ive seen people here argue that they are safer but I haven't the slightest clue why. Ive seen people say they are more comfortable but they couldn't possibly be better then a nice laz-e-boy style recumbent. The one thing I wonder about is aero dynamics, seeing as how scooters are usually rounded and stuff do they have less drag then a regular MTB?

This is going to sound bad, in light of my last post, but I'm thinking that the scooter style ebike is the "SUV" of ebikes. People are making the same arguments--feel safer, more comfortable, etc. vs. too big, inappropriate for the roads/paths, etc. ...And to reiterate what's been said here more than once, it's still better than a real SUV.

WAAAHHH! You hurt my feelings!

Lots of name calling and character assassination going on here, but hey, I'm an autoworker, I'm used to it!

Love me or hate me, I don't really care. Just refute my criticisms and arguments against the scooter-style e-bikes, or STFU!!!

If you or anyone else wants to ride a 175lb hideous parody of a quasi-motorcycle, be my guest. Just keep off the bike paths, and don't try to justify it in the name of the environment or claim that you're riding a bicycle, because you come up short on all counts. You just appear as dorky wannabee motorcycle riders who don't have the balls to get licensed and ride the real thing.

I'm still waiting for an intelligent refutation of my arguments against e-scoots. Your silence is deafening!

Ok. Now you're imitating a Troll. Name calling.

If you can't discuss in this thread without name calling and taunting, then you are trying to start something.

hm... I noticed your last post was more conciliatory, maybe ignoring from other posters worked...

yeah... ok, continue

:)

To Recumelectric:
Veloteq Bikes are governed at 32km per hour which is all Ontario will allow for power assisted bikes.
Range is anywhere from 40km to 80km depending on riders weight, speed, wind, hills etc. While certainly not for everybody, they certainly offer alternative transportation to those who would not consider a bicycle as an option for a variety of reasons. Veloteq will be introducing a new nickel zinc battery for their bikes sometime in the summer of 2009. Lighter weight, faster charge time and will behave better in colder temperatures. Check out www.veloteq.com (http://www.veloteq.com) or www.powergenix.com (http://www.powergenix.com) for info on bikes and batteries. Veloteq also have some exciting other surprises for the new year. "Walk when you can, ride if you want, drive only when necessary and for all the other times "think Veloteq"
And for all those that are just "so bothered" by other peoples individual choices all I can say is "sucks to be you"

Because the bicycle purists are all shills of the automotive industry and earn comission whenever they convince an E-Bike user to switch back to driving their car.

:P

The department of transportation has already classified 500 watts, 32 km per hour limit, capable of being propelled by muscular power, etc...not to be deemed a motor vehicle....and to be treated as a bicycle....whether you agree or not is fortunately of no concern to anyone...if what you were saying was true, they would have been off the road 2 years ago....this was discussed and settled along time ago...
You are obviously against electric bikes in general because of their battery assist...must be nice to be young and healthy...god forbid you are not capable of pedalling anymore because you would require a licence and insurance to travel a mere 32 km per hour to go to the corner store...all of sudden you are on the cash grab side of the government...to bike to the store?

I haven't read through the whole thread, but it seems people here are missing the simple reality that E-Bikes and E-Scooters are not fast enough to share the road. Motorcycles don't go on bike paths because motorcycles are fast, even a motorbike with a small displacement will reach speeds well above what one can reach under normal peddling. E-Bikes and E-Scooters will not, especially given that many if not most of them have speed limiters. If E-Scooters were required to share the road, they would be getting in the way of cars and it would anger both drivers and destroy the E-Scooter market - but then again, that seems to be the goal of some people here.

Kind of astounding for me that this hostility even exists. Where I live, the problem is a lack of bicycle lanes, not crowded lanes. Few people are using them, if E-Scooters and E-Bikes took off, voters would be motivated to pay out to construct a real bike lane network. I'm guessing the problem elsewhere must be that they have a great comprehensive bicycle network, but it's jam packed with traffic??

Kind of astounding for me that this hostility even exists. Where I live, the problem is a lack of bicycle lanes, not crowded lanes. Few people are using them, if E-Scooters and E-Bikes took off, voters would be motivated to pay out to construct a real bike lane network. I'm guessing the problem elsewhere must be that they have a great comprehensive bicycle network, but it's jam packed with traffic??

My problem is not with bicycle lane usage. These probably belong in the bicycle lanes more than anywhere else.

...They seem a bit too much for an MUP or sidewalk where there are wandering kids, skaters, dog-walkers, joggers, etc. I've noticed that many of the faster cyclists that don't even use motors feel that MUP's aren't really safe at higher commuting speeds.

My problem is not with bicycle lane usage. These probably belong in the bicycle lanes more than anywhere else.

...They seem a bit too much for an MUP or sidewalk where there are wandering kids, skaters, dog-walkers, joggers, etc. I've noticed that many of the faster cyclists that don't even use motors feel that MUP's aren't really safe at higher commuting speeds.

According to the laws here, the only type of wheeled vehicle allowed on sidewalks are wheelchairs or a bike that you are walking. Anyone riding a bike on the sidewalk, motorized or not, is already breaking the law. I still see people doing it all the time though. :rolleyes:

I should say, the people riding bikes on the sidewalks are not the type of people that are posting here. It's little kids who obviously don't have enough homework.

New buildings get electric bicycle plug-ins!
http://www.veva.bc.ca/images/veva-logo-red-80.png
VANCOUVER, BC - May 15, 2008 - The Vancouver Electric Vehicle Association (VEVA) congratulates the City of Vancouver for new by-laws passed this week that will encourage and enhance electric bicycle ownership, and lead the way for other communities to do the same.
Vancouver City council has approved changes to the off-street bicycle parking by-laws effective with all new buildings going forward. The new by-laws address much needed security for bikes. The new by-laws include provision for charging electric bikes in bike storage rooms in condos and other retail / commercial bike storage lockers. VEVA applauds this forward thinking and small but important move.
Surveys of local e-Bike stores indicate that there are now more than 10,000 electric bikes in Greater Vancouver with a dozen stores selling these increasingly popular electric bikes. These e-Bikes need to be charged, much like a cell phone or laptop computer and use regular 110V receptacles. The problem has been that bike storage lockers in condominiums do not have any electric outlets. e-Bike owners have resorted to hauling heavy batteries up the elevators to their residences to charge them. The lack of plugs has been an obstacle to some, but this new by-law will create the infrastructure needed.
“e-Bikes are a practical transportation alternative, especially during the summer months, as commuters can use them without having to shower at the end of their ride – they are relatively effortless, yet have all the benefits of being outside in the fresh air and sunshine” commented Don Chandler, VEVA President. “With the current price of gas and maddening traffic snarls why wouldn’t you choose this as a regular option for urban commuting? Vancouver has an excellent network of bike paths and bike lanes.”
e-Bikes are one of the most environmentally friendly forms of transportation in BC with zero emissions when charged from BCs near carbon neutral grid. Commuting by eBike makes Vancouver's hills effortless to climb and each one that replaces a car prevents up 2000 to 4000 Kg of GHGs per annum from polluting our climate. This represents almost 1/3 of an individual’s carbon footprint.
VEVA hopes that strata councils take note of this need and take individual initiatives to upgrade existing bike lockers to accommodate eBikes and eScooters to stay competitive with new building facilities. The new by-laws will be prepared by city staff, developers notified and educated, before they come into effect after a one year grace period.

New buildings get electric bicycle plug-ins!
http://www.veva.bc.ca/images/veva-logo-red-80.png
VANCOUVER, BC - May 15, 2008 - The Vancouver Electric Vehicle Association (VEVA) congratulates the City of Vancouver for new by-laws passed this week that will encourage and enhance electric bicycle ownership, and lead the way for other communities to do the same.
Vancouver City council has approved changes to the off-street bicycle parking by-laws effective with all new buildings going forward. The new by-laws address much needed security for bikes. The new by-laws include provision for charging electric bikes in bike storage rooms in condos and other retail / commercial bike storage lockers. VEVA applauds this forward thinking and small but important move.
Surveys of local e-Bike stores indicate that there are now more than 10,000 electric bikes in Greater Vancouver with a dozen stores selling these increasingly popular electric bikes. These e-Bikes need to be charged, much like a cell phone or laptop computer and use regular 110V receptacles. The problem has been that bike storage lockers in condominiums do not have any electric outlets. e-Bike owners have resorted to hauling heavy batteries up the elevators to their residences to charge them. The lack of plugs has been an obstacle to some, but this new by-law will create the infrastructure needed.
“e-Bikes are a practical transportation alternative, especially during the summer months, as commuters can use them without having to shower at the end of their ride – they are relatively effortless, yet have all the benefits of being outside in the fresh air and sunshine” commented Don Chandler, VEVA President. “With the current price of gas and maddening traffic snarls why wouldn’t you choose this as a regular option for urban commuting? Vancouver has an excellent network of bike paths and bike lanes.”
e-Bikes are one of the most environmentally friendly forms of transportation in BC with zero emissions when charged from BCs near carbon neutral grid. Commuting by eBike makes Vancouver's hills effortless to climb and each one that replaces a car prevents up 2000 to 4000 Kg of GHGs per annum from polluting our climate. This represents almost 1/3 of an individual’s carbon footprint.
VEVA hopes that strata councils take note of this need and take individual initiatives to upgrade existing bike lockers to accommodate eBikes and eScooters to stay competitive with new building facilities. The new by-laws will be prepared by city staff, developers notified and educated, before they come into effect after a one year grace period.



Cool!

No surprise Canada is ahead of the US on that.

My solution is having a portable battery pack. I'm just taking the one I made from my scooter and I'm adding it to my bike (when I get it). It's just a waterproof bag with a lithium ion battery and charger in it. It's got a stubby little extension cord coming out. I'd like to put together some kind of sturdy plastic housing that would be detachable in the future. Or I'm going to have to have one of those newspaper carrier things and secure it on there. Either way, I just take the battery pack with me wherever I am, get a free charge while at starbucks. :)

Maddyfish...It is you who is being rediculous.....

Maddyfish is an outright idiot He's been on my ignore list for a while now. no loss really. LOL!

Take it from me, he brings nothing intelligent to any discussion.

According to the laws here, the only type of wheeled vehicle allowed on sidewalks are wheelchairs or a bike that you are walking. Anyone riding a bike on the sidewalk, motorized or not, is already breaking the law. I still see people doing it all the time though. :rolleyes:


Close. Bikes with wheels under 20" in diameter are allowed on sidewalks as well (Ontario). This for kids with kiddie bikes.