Electric Bikes - Why The Trashing of E-Bikes

Close. Bikes with wheels under 20" in diameter are allowed on sidewalks as well (Ontario). This for kids with kiddie bikes.

Little kids don't worry me anyway. :)

It's the 15-16 year old kids on BMX and mountain bikes that enjoy winding in and out of crowds that are an accident waiting to happen. Unfortunately, there's a good chance they will not be the only ones injured.

Close. Bikes with wheels under 20" in diameter are allowed on sidewalks as well (Ontario). This for kids with kiddie bikes.

On some roads, if a biker doesn't use the sidewalk, he'll wind up in a coffin. Cars and trucks are way too dangerous.

I ride the sidewalk all the time when the road is dangerous and the cops don't even look. They couldn't care less as they are busy with more important issues.

If cops target bikes on sidewalks, your city has policeman with very little to do. Call your alderman and ask for a reduction of policeman!!!

It's common sense that it's better to live than risk death on the road. :eek:

:)

I personally have a Crystalyte conversion kit on my bike, and i love it. it has helped me so much when i was in an accident and couldn't pedal my bike normally anymore. i do agree however that those scooters are very ridiculous, and probably a bit more dangerous than regular bikes to have on bike paths than a regular bike is for pedestrians. sure i get told that I am cheating a lot, but unfortunately, my knees just wont do it anymore. I think it is great if people have e-bikes or if they choose leg power, but both need to be respected in thier own way.

Before your accident, you may have thought putting a motor on a bicycle was rediculous as well.
Many people think e-bikes are rediculous, and you I am sure would tell them why they are wrong in that thinking. It serves a purpose for you. The scooter style serve a purpose for others. I think we should all have the right to have options, and for a lot of people an open frame bicycle or scooter style is a lot more attractive than shooting right to a mobility scooter or driving a 2000 pound car 10 blocks uphill to the corner store. In BC there have been thousands on bike paths for the last 6 years, and in other provinces for 2 or 3 years. If they were really dangerous we would have read about it or heard about it by now. A bicycle can be considered dangerous to someone as well.

Apologies up front for not reading through 104 posts but I wanted to chime in on the OP's inquiry anyway. I think electric scooters, e-bikes and pedelecs are all varying degrees of two wheeled transportation. Pedelecs (electric-assist bicycles that require pedaling effort) are closest to what bicycles are intended to embody in that human physical effort is the key to propulsion and not the battery. Pedelec bikes are primarily driven by human-power that can be augmented by electric power to extend the effectiveness of bicycle transport for certain rider conditions. The best designs of this type are viable bikes - that is to say they are not so unwieldy or otherwise encumbered that they can't be solely pedaled if necessary. I think the less a design depends on the rider to move, the less identifiable it may viewed as a bicycle by cyclists, and the more likely it is to be "trashed".

Before your accident, you may have thought putting a motor on a bicycle was rediculous as well.
Many people think e-bikes are rediculous, and you I am sure would tell them why they are wrong in that thinking. It serves a purpose for you. The scooter style serve a purpose for others. I think we should all have the right to have options, and for a lot of people an open frame bicycle or scooter style is a lot more attractive than shooting right to a mobility scooter or driving a 2000 pound car 10 blocks uphill to the corner store. In BC there have been thousands on bike paths for the last 6 years, and in other provinces for 2 or 3 years. If they were really dangerous we would have read about it or heard about it by now. A bicycle can be considered dangerous to someone as well.

my roommate had an e-bike well before my accident, and i always thought it was pretty neat

As I have previously mentiioned, I would not refer to a scooter style e-bike as a bicycle because it would be an innacurate description of what it is. An e-bike though is exactly what they are. There are two styles, open frame and scooter style...and both are governed by exactly the same laws and both I believe have their place in reducing the amount of automobiles on the road especially for short commuters.

That is very true. even if a majority of drivers started using those really ugly e-scooters, it would be better for everyone. less polution.

That is very true. even if a majority of drivers started using those really ugly e-scooters, it would be better for everyone. less polution.

No way! It would hurt my Exxon stock. :)

that is very true. Even if a majority of drivers started using those really ugly e-scooters, it would be better for everyone. Less polution.

lol

I'd prefer to switch the focus to Bike shops. They seem to HATE electric bikes and won't work on mine. They have great fear of the electrical parts and the motor. Odd. Anyone know why this is?

Bicycle mechanics are generally not trained in electronics; the first law of medicine is "do no harm" and the same principle applies with mechanical things--if you don't know how to fix it, don't touch it.

And in terms of carbon footprint, again, I believe electric bicycles produce less carbon than regular bicycles because it takes a lot of carbon to grow and create the food we eat to power our regular bicycles.

How is electricity generated where you are? Around here it is generally from burning coal, so you are just displacing the pollution. Now, if where you are the electricity is mostly from wind or solar, that's another matter.

Aside from the idea of looking cooler because you're on a scooter instead of a bike I still have a really hard time understanding why someone would want one over a MTB or a recumbent.

Some people have physical limitations, particularly in areas that aren't flat. Around here there are a lot of hills which are difficult or impossible for a trained athelete on a high-end machine, much less an ordinary out-of-shape person, or an elderly or handicapped person, on a low- to medium-end machine.

A missing point is this, people could ride an ebike is circumstances where they would pick the car over the regular bike. Trip is a little too far, hill is a little too steep, they'd be a little too late, they're a little too tired, weather is a little too hot, they'd get a little too sweaty, knee is a little too sore, or whatever the reason may be. So a 1 to 1 calorie comparison is moot.

In terms of carbon footprint and displacement of pollution- Who gives a crap. Anything that weighs 1/20 of a car is going to have a smaller footprint, whether its pedal powered or electrified. No matter where the energy comes from. Half the battle to get people to move eco will be getting them out of the mindset that they need to haul around 4000 pounds of vehicle everywhere they go. Nevermind what kind of engine technology they use to do it. Anybody on two wheels is doing well as far as this goes. Even a Harley's mileage is on par with the best of the cars out there.

well said! :thumb:

very well said!

If you're so concerned about the environment, and going green, why would you defend the addition of another 100lbs of junk to a perfectly adequate bike, for no other reason than to look cool as a "biker" and not a bicyclist?

As I stated in another thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=427949

"...why not choose a 50 to 75lb vehicle over a 175lb one that does nothing better than the lighter one, except deplete more natural resources?

Apart from the added extra materials and energy wasted in the manufacture of the scooter-style e-bike, consider how many more bicycle-style e-bikes will fit in a container being shipped from China, and therefore how much more diesel fuel is wasted in shipping the scoots, along with the resulting pollution.

The BionX units are manufactured in Quebec, and weigh less than 20lbs. Want to compare carbon footprints from factory door to your door?

Sorry, but you just can't argue logically for the existence of these things. Their only justification is for people who want to look like they're riding a motor scooter and not a bicycle."

There is no method of human transportation ever invented that is more efficient than the bicycle. The addition of an electric hub motor such as the BionX increases the range and utility of the humble bicycle to a greater order of magnitude, especially for those of limited physical capacity. Why **** it up with by adding useless junk to make it look like a motorized scoooter when it's obviously not?

You e-scoot riders remind me of a bunch of Harley-wannabees.

I'd like to hear your rebuttals of this argument against e-scoots. Bring 'em on.

Rebuttal follows: I've got news for you, a standard bicycle requires resources to manufacture and keep it maintained. Why then do you opt for travelling using a bicycle when you have two perfectly good feet to transport you?

Sorry (I'm not really), but you just can't argue logically for the existence of bicycles. Your only justification is if want to look like you are a pedestrian who is cooler than normal pedestrians.

i got two things to say:

1) the last two posts are hilarious, thanks for the laughs :-))

2) hey raevyn, haven't seen you in a while, how's it going? :-)))

i got two things to say:

1) the last two posts are hilarious, thanks for the laughs :-))

2) hey raevyn, haven't seen you in a while, how's it going? :-)))

Miss me, did ya?

Here we go again .. us flirting that is :roflmao: :D <<<< yes

aw, that is so sweet!

Can someone enlighten me how a forum on e-bikes has spent 90% of its time discussing e-scooters? Surely the name of the 2 things gives the answer to the endless discussion! Another gripe is the universal description of e-bikes as powered cycles , there are undoubtedly non-pedal powered cycles but surely what this forum is discussing are pedal assist cycles ie.pedelecs am i missing something here ? or lost the plot? ps i ride a Panasonic drive unit powered BH E-motion weighing 50lbs. range 45 miles charge time about 1 hour and rides nicely if unassisted ie i am not stuck if battery gives out Al

In terms of carbon footprint and displacement of pollution- Who gives a crap. Anything that weighs 1/20 of a car is going to have a smaller footprint, whether its pedal powered or electrified. No matter where the energy comes from. Half the battle to get people to move eco will be getting them out of the mindset that they need to haul around 4000 pounds of vehicle everywhere they go. Nevermind what kind of engine technology they use to do it. Anybody on two wheels is doing well as far as this goes. Even a Harley's mileage is on par with the best of the cars out there.

Sure, if mileage is your only criteria but gasoline powered mopeds with two stroke engines are notoriously nasty polluters as any one who has spent time most large cities in Asia can testify. See this article about Shanghai (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/30/content_395890.htm) Electric is the way to go and don't forget noise pollution. So, I would rather someone drives an electric car than a two-stroke moped.

hey ako, good point

btw what does you username mean :-)) i'm gonna go google it

Apologies up front for not reading through 104 posts but I wanted to chime in on the OP's inquiry anyway. I think electric scooters, e-bikes and pedelecs are all varying degrees of two wheeled transportation. Pedelecs (electric-assist bicycles that require pedaling effort) are closest to what bicycles are intended to embody in that human physical effort is the key to propulsion and not the battery. Pedelec bikes are primarily driven by human-power that can be augmented by electric power to extend the effectiveness of bicycle transport for certain rider conditions. The best designs of this type are viable bikes - that is to say they are not so unwieldy or otherwise encumbered that they can't be solely pedaled if necessary. I think the less a design depends on the rider to move, the less identifiable it may viewed as a bicycle by cyclists, and the more likely it is to be "trashed".

Some great points (including my apology for not reading all 124 posts).

To add to the discussion... I tried an Ontario qualifying 'e-bike'. It was basically an electric scooter with pedals that were more for show that function... at ~120-140rpm I was doing about 12-15 kph (and, I'm sure, I was also amusing anyone who was watching). To qualify as an e-bike in Ontario top speed can't exceed 32 kph and there are limits to power as well... I would not want to ride this thing on a MUP (and definitely not a sidewalk) for safety reasons but after my experience I most certainly would not want to ride it on any street other than a residential-type road... why?

It's way too slow... I can out accelerate and outpace this thing with the greatest of ease on my heavy loaded touring bike.

Because it looks like a scooter, drivers expect you to be able to keep up with traffic... they don't drive in your vicinity as if you're a cyclist, they drive as if you're a motorcyclist. (Maybe with a decade or two of education drivers will 'get it' but I'm not holding my breath).

I have logged 6000 km here in the Toronto (and North of Toronto) area on my touring bike -- I don't always like riding on the busier streets but I have never had massive fear for my life or well-being. One short trip to the local Shopper's Drug Mart to get a prescription (using the e-scooter) was absolutely terrifying.

I'd like to check-out BioniX or the Coppenhagen wheel, because as a 212lb rider hills and even headwinds are my worst enemy... if I had a little boost at times like that, it would be very nice.

If I lived in a small town the e-scooter might be more attractive for short trips to the grocer, pharmacy, library, etc... but as a city-dweller you can count me out. Now a BioniX on the other hand... I'd certainly like to try one out.

I find that black people are the most accepting of my e-bike. Most of them want one.

I think "scared" is not quite what I'm feeling when I see you guys on your e-scoots.

http://snaposhawa.com/display/20494/255/some one going past you on a harley will probably think the same about you. its all relative , its the playground dont join that gang join ours mentality.
grow up!it seems to be happening on a lot of forums, infighting because onegroup determines they are the true path and all others are sinners. whats next being better because you wear cool sunglasses?

wait a minute i'd better check my spelling. oh f--k it, sorry miss

Can someone enlighten me how a forum on e-bikes has spent 90% of its time discussing e-scooters? Surely the name of the 2 things gives the answer to the endless discussion! Another gripe is the universal description of e-bikes as powered cycles , there are undoubtedly non-pedal powered cycles but surely what this forum is discussing are pedal assist cycles ie.pedelecs am i missing something here ? or lost the plot? ps i ride a Panasonic drive unit powered BH E-motion weighing 50lbs. range 45 miles charge time about 1 hour and rides nicely if unassisted ie i am not stuck if battery gives out Al

that means i'm probably ineligable to call myself an ebike rider then. i have an " inferior" hub 750w motor, with "inferior" sla batteries in an " inferior" fully sprung mtb. and if it ever runs out of batteries, at 62y, i could certainly not peddal it home exept dowhill. does this mean i have to swap my badge to scooter rider?

I like your point, Caribou, regarding how motorists perceive a scooter-like ebike vs a bike looking ebike.

This happens a lot: I'm going down Shaw (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=43.649701,-79.418278&daddr=Shaw+St&geocode=%3BFVT3mQIdDzRE-w&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=17&sll=43.647675,-79.417022&sspn=0.007204,0.013057&ie=UTF8&z=17)(Toronto) at maximum allowed speed of 40 kmph on my bike (I know what you're going to say but bear with me)

A tailgating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailgating) car is honking at me.

Where am I? I'm on the only lane going in this direction.

Am I taking up the entire lane? Yes, it's a narrow road and there are cars parked on the right. And once the lane got wider, a skateboarder was off to my right ahead of me.

Can the motoris see me and the foreign objects? I assume so, since he's right behind me and his windshield seems to be clean.

There are other not so obvious reason why a bike may be taking up the entire lane: potholes, slower moving objects, parked cars etc...

Had I been a motorcycle doing the same speed, no problem.

I'm not making up these rules... apparently motorists get their licence once they pass tests which cover this material (http://www.torontoems.ca/main-site/careers/safety-tips/bicycles5.html). Cyclists should be familiar with these rules/tips as well before taking to the road... I know first hand and I hope to blog about it some more on a lighter note in the future. :thumb:

Thank you for reading :D