Foo - Thinking about moving

Abroad. I'm wondering for all you transplants living out there in Europe, how hard is it to adapt to new languages (I suck at languages, btw), new laws, maintaining US citizenship, getting a job, etc.? How do you deal with leaving friends and family behind? How can you quietly transition a lifestyle change like this? And do you know of any websites you could point in my direction that I can start looking at?

This is going to be a little later down the road, like in about a year if I can get my act together in the next couple of months. I got a bit of info from one member who lives in Switzerland, but I'm always interested in hearing from other folks too.

Koffee

My first thought was, didn’t you just move? I lived in Norway for a year when I was in my early twenties and it was a great experience. It was relatively easy, as far as immigration was concerned, as I was in a common law relationship with a Norwegian and was granted an indefinite period of time to work and live. Language was easy, as we spoke English at home and my co-workers spoke English as well. The difficulty was the day-to-day pleasures one gets from language like at the cinema, theatre, books and importantly from humour. I understood the language well enough to follow conversations, but could not speak well enough to contribute. As far as fitting in goes, you either adapt to the local culture or join the expat community. In Norway I ended up hanging out with the African and Latin American crowed mostly because of the music and dance. I believe it is harder for Americans compared to Canadians or Australians and New Zealanders to get residency permits in the UK or Europe and this depends on age, qualifications, and reason to want to live there. A good place to start is to look for a book entitled working abroad, I cannot remember the author. It really depends on your motivation to live overseas whether it is to immigrate or for a cultural experience. For example, the easy route is to teach English as a foreign language in Asia or Eastern Europe - some jobs will pay well and others will cover basic living expenses. I know a lady who taught in the Czech Republic for a year just for the experience of living in Prague and she loved it.

Move to Austrailia. No language problem there.

Move to Austrailia. No language problem there.

Crikey, mate, you think?

I've done it and I would do it again.

Go for it. You are single, healthy, and young. It will be the greatest experience of your life.

Every moment you delay will be opportunity lost.

I wouldn't even wait to have a garage sale. Put your clothes, toothbrush, and hairbrush in a single backpack, call the Salvation Army to come and pick up the rest. Write to us to tell us what you are up to.

One piece of advise, though... Make sure you have a visa that will allow you to stay for a prolonged period of time. Each country has it's own imigration rules, so the visas are different. I would not go on a simple tourist visa unless you plan to be back within 3 months.

Go for it if you really feel you want to live abroad for an extended length of time. I have been an ex-pat for sixteen years in two different countries and have no regrets. Language may be a challenge but immersion is an easy way to learn, most important is to be in an environment / community where you can have a lot of interactions with other people. Be aware that after a few years, there is really no place that you really can call home or maybe it is just different places you can call home and the place where you live. Who cares, the first couple of years are always fascinating, then you settle or move again. Can't wait for retirement to do it again ;-)

Abroad. I'm wondering for all you transplants living out there in Europe, how hard is it to adapt to new languages (I suck at languages, btw), new laws, maintaining US citizenship, getting a job, etc.? How do you deal with leaving friends and family behind? How can you quietly transition a lifestyle change like this? And do you know of any websites you could point in my direction that I can start looking at?

This is going to be a little later down the road, like in about a year if I can get my act together in the next couple of months. I got a bit of info from one member who lives in Switzerland, but I'm always interested in hearing from other folks too.

Koffee

While I have lived overseas in several countries and visited even more, I did it as a member of the U.S. Navy. I did, however, live off base in Italy and Japan in areas where not other Americans lived. I got on fine without speaking much of the language. I have also visited Denmark, Norway, Australia, and England, among other places, and found each of these to be wonderful places to live and work. The thing you must do is research the local laws on work permits, etc.

Gordon's comments about Norway is exactly as mine. Almost everywhere I went in Norway - and Denmark - nearly everyone spoke English. You can find English language newspapers and there is English SkyTv with English language programs.

Come to kiwi land!!! Come to Pukekohe, small town of about 6500 people. You will LOVE the cycling roads out here!

Brendon

Come to kiwi land!!! Come to Pukekohe, small town of about 6500 people. You will LOVE the cycling roads out here!

Brendon

One of the places I have always wanted to visit is New Zealand. I hear it is beautiful, great weather and greater people.

I will be keen to help organise things if anyone does decide to come here. If you come at certain times in the year there will be metric centuries to ride. They are quite popular here.

Regards,
Brendon

Go for it. You are single, healthy, and young. It will be the greatest experience of your life.

Every moment you delay will be opportunity lost.

I wouldn't even wait to have a garage sale. Put your clothes, toothbrush, and hairbrush in a single backpack, call the Salvation Army to come and pick up the rest. Write to us to tell us what you are up to.

One piece of advise, though... Make sure you have a visa that will allow you to stay for a prolonged period of time. Each country has it's own imigration rules, so the visas are different. I would not go on a simple tourist visa unless you plan to be back within 3 months.

Ditto! Go for it, girlfriend!

:D

I'm with Mike, you should just do it! I have traveled extensively and have lived in Japan, and I can heartily recommend foreign travel to you! of course, living in England or Australia or New Zealand or elsewhere where English is spoken would save a lot of problems.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck, Koffee.

Paul

Koffee,

having lived overseas (South Africa for 5 years), and done some extensive travelling, I concur. Go for it.
You can't really know a place until you live there.
one thing tho, South Africa can be a pretty scary place and it isn't too bike friendly. I'd suggest one of
the European countries. I particularly liked Wein, great architecture, tons of history, friendly people and most
of them speak some english so you can survive there.

Marty

Thanks.

Africa is NOT an option or interest. Too messed up.

I'm more confining myself to Europe, and specifically, someplace mediterranian. I think people who know me get the drift... ;)

Koffee

Wow! Nice for you! I didn't read all the replies- I'm trying to not get sucked in because for once I've got things to do at work! So I'll just say DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT! Can't help you much with the logistics. When I lived there I was a newly graduated college student and had the student work visas, so that's all I know about.

Moved to Spain in ´87 , never looked back , nice people .
The language can be a problem but it just needs a bit of work - try it .

Hi Koffee,

I am in the same boat as you. Though I love living in Portland, Oregon I am looking for something new/different (not in the USA/Bush-land). I've looked into a couple different options, but it does look like getting a job in the EU will be VERY difficult unless it is not officially declared. The EU laws are very strict about hiring foreigners, so unless you have lots of $$ or have some company willing to sponsor your hiring (this costs them a lot in taxes) it will be tough. Also, getting a visa to even work in a given country can be very difficult. Do some Googling about moving abroad, each country has different visa options (generally only 3 months, but all you have to do to renew the visa is to go into another country).

Things are looking up for me, though. My partner has applied/been accepted to a Fulbright in Germany (still waiting on the final confirmation and matching process). So I will get a chance to be a house"wife" for a year. I'm keeping my fingers crossed all works out.

Let us know what you are finding, 'cause I would love to be able to get some work while abroad.

I'm headed to some of the consulates offices at some point soon to get requirements if you decide to live in another country. There would have to be some kind of exception if you actually owned property in another country, I would think.

I'm still trying to figure out the residency and work stuff so I can do the property stuff and get out of here.

Koffee

what's your main reason for leaving, Koffee?

Just wanting to get away and go someplace else for a change. I find myself itching to travel, so I might as well just move out of the country for a bit and get it out of my system. There are a lot of great countries out there, and I would have better access to them from Europe than Chicago, I think.

I really do love Europe and Asia, though.

Koffee

What have you decided to do, Koffee? And where have you decided to go?

hi Koffee,

well, this one deserves a thorough reply, but i just arrived in the office, so i will try a short stab... i also have onyl read like the first 2 replies...

there can be some difficulties but for the most part they are FUN new experiences. in my case i really wanted to live abroad for a while and didn't really trust myself or know how to go about it. 2 years after college i looked into moving to germany --- a good friend of mine from college had moved to Germany and i had visited her -- but many people disouraged me -- most notably her parents! who i think were just worried/scared that she was so far away. my parents who are VERY supportive parents were also pretty skeptical -- i think parents just don't like the idea of their "kids" so far away, plus they fear they may not come back -- like in my case where i am very happy here and have a serious relationship with a German girl - my mountain bike guide girlfriend!

anyhow, i first made 2 crosscountry moves within the US - Texas to Portland Oregon 2 1/2 years after college , then 3 years later from there to Massachusetts... and yes even for crosscountry moves in the US, the missing friends and family is probably the biggest drawback --- since 1994 i see my sister about twice a year and my parents about once a year (2 weeks).

otherwise it has been a great experience. depending on where you go, you can actually "get by" on English pretty well. of course the best is if you study some first so you have enough background to really speak the language and "learn on the fly". i had had 2 years high school german and 3 semesters at the university - plus 6 weeks practice from my trip to Europe in 1994... but had not spoken any German in 7 years when i came! i had almost no "problems" and "spoke" German from day 1 and learned it very fast --- "immersion" and effort is the key i think - many foreigners like to practice their english, but be persistent - at first i would speak German and most people would answer me in english and i would answer back in German despite my German being horrible...

as for how -- i kind of had a special case AND the job market was particularly great when came in early 2001... in general, in regards to Europe, if you find a company who is interested in hiring you, that is all you need. it varies by type of work, but in general they have to justify that you have special skills and will be an assett rather than burden on the country/economy. despite the anticts of our most recent president, Americans (individually) are still seen very positively and there are also many positions requiring English fluency where you have an immediate advantage...

in Germany, it works basically so: you have to find a company that wants you. they publish the skills sought on the government board for a specified time period (8 weeks or something) during which they have to consider at least x number of "domestic" candidates referred from the government employment agency. the real "trick" here is that the company must tailor the requirements to your skillset: say native english speaker, foreign work experience, competency in American fitness methods, or whatever. this can actually work for not so "special" positions -- a Swiss friend of mine who had a German pass because of her father, had then lived in Canada and gotten her Canadian pass - then she was in Germany and they told her she could not have THREE passports so she had to give one up... she gave up the German one and then had to apply for a work permit (she was already working in Munich). her company contracted an attourney and (unfortunately) it was a hassle and she moved back to Switzerland, receiving the work permit 2 days after she accepted the new job!

in any case, even if finding a position can be difficult (a friend of mine -only 21 - was here working as a civilian for the US military hotel/recreation center and she tried to find a job but without a college degree or "skills" she could not find anything and is now back in school in Massachusetss)... once you do, treatment of foreigners at work, out of work and by the government is VERY good in comparision to how poorly foreigners in the US are treated (think INS)... i was laid off end of 2001 and i called the employment office expecting them to threaten me to be out of the country (H1B Visa holders in the US have strict rules and basically have 6 weeks "unemployed" and then get deported) and they said i was free to stay for the 3 year duration AND they would help me find a new job!!! furthermore, in both work and social aspects, Americans are one of the most highly "ranked" foreigners... whether it is good or bad, there is still descrimination in some segments of society against many non-western-european foreigners (like in the US) so those from the former East, Russia, Turkey or the Middle East are not treated as well (having a east-european accent can be a social negative and i have Russian and Czech friends who have trouble finding apartments) --- but as i said, the American accent (at least i Germany) is more positive than negative (it is an attention getter)...

i would HIGHLY recommend working/living abroad!!! it is so much fun, such a great experience, and really broadens you as a person (learning another language, another culture, etc)

as i said, in 1995 i did not have the courage, but in 2001, i had decided to relocate and my choices came down to Boulder CO, Portland OR or Munich/Zurich... i decided that the chance may never come again (i was single, looking for a new job, ready to move, did not own a house, no kids... the combination may never again occur for me -- i was at 30 at the time)

i can give you lots of further ideas/recommendations on what to do - but basically involves the same stuff as if you move to a new place - get out and meet people, join clubs, etc. most Europeans are very interested in meeting foreigners, particularly Americans as the US is such a source of music, film and entertainment... plus they like to practice their language skills (which her are a real JOB assett!)

if you are relatively outgoing, high energy and adventurours (like i am) it is so much fun, you hardly notice that you have no idea how to do the paperwork to rent an apartment or figure out health insurance... it is best to quickly find a few "natives" who can help you (within 4 weeks of arriving i had met enough people that i had help when my stuff arrived by ship and a few people to help me examine the apartment rental documents...)

if i know you, i would guess you are considering Italy or Spain... i'm not too knowledgable there, although my current roommate is an Italian from Venice. If you are considering Germany or Austria i can help a lot more... Switzerland i can help with the language if you are in the eastern (German) half.

ok, gotta do some work here... good luck and let me know how it develops...

-Nathan

Well we speak English!. (With allowances for regional dialects) In fact I think we invented it....

I lived in Berlin for 6 years - granted, I had a place to live (girfriend, now wife of 15 years), and it was fantastic - especially during the period I lived there (1987-1993). I now have friends and family in Germany, Sweden, Norway, Italy, England and France.

Without a job ahead of time, I forsee difficulties. I managed only because of the pre-existing support system. Ultimately, I became a technical translator, but I started off selling cars to British soldiers, then selling waterbeds to bemused Germans! Residency is not major problem for US citizens, but again, check in at monster.com frequently and look for opportunities before you go!

France seems to make life more difficult than Germany (language is one issue - many French people speak it, but they are not as keen to do so as Germans, or Scandinavians - many Italians in the non-urban parts of that country don't speak anything but Italian!). My German sister-in-law has worked for Hertz in Marseille for years, and although she is a citizen of the EU, she has had problems with various government offices for years. Minor stuff, but inconvenient nonetheless.

And salaries for non-tech jobs are pretty low, generally, and the cost of living is high. If you don't have major expectations about nice apartments, big fridges or cars (or in some cases central heat), then you'll do fine!

However, I can only recommend it! Try and do all the legwork you can before you go, and it will all be much easier!

Thanks for the info. I'm actually heading over to Italy to do some legwork next week- I leave in a week for a 2 week trip to Italy and Sweden... It should be interesting to see how the cost of things are, especially since the dollar is so weak.

Koffee

So what happened to your plans, Koffee ?

lol. yeah what happened. I know she moved again I think but not out of the USA i know. Course I only came aroun here sometime in June/July of 2005

With your travel experiences as detailed on here you are far better geared to make the move than many others.You have the desire, and seems to me the personality to make new friends rapidly and easily, and to take a problem and deal with it.
I imagine the idea of shutting up a household,permanently, may be your biggest concern, though the work and health care are other major considerations.They can be dealt with
Once inside a local area and living there its isn't a biggie to adjust to the local standard of living,having no auto can save 7K$ or more a year alone

I'm a lot older than you,I'm sure, but I'm enrolling in mid Jan in SF in a school that teaches how to teach English to foreign nationals in their own countries,I don't expect to make a lot of money but sufficient to maintain a comfortable "local" standard, with my retirement sources, I'lll do ok.

Cut the cord, and have the garage sale, its only 'stuff'

I was in the USAF for 12 years and whereever there was a SAC base I was stationed there, 41 addresses in 12 years, best years and times of my life.My longtime partner wasn't a traveler as I was, so we didn't go much. After his death I started again,by myself,and rekindled the immense delight.

My destination is Barcelona

Go for it Koffee! I'm envious! The six months that I lived in Paris were fabulous. Unemployed, yes, but that just left me more time to walk the streets of Paris.

If I had put my mind to it, I could have gotten a job there, but I was holding out for the Perfect Job...I interviewed alot but no offers. Visas are not a problem for me because I am an EU citizen. I was just too picky about jobs. In retrospect, if I had taken a less-than-perfect job, I would probably still be there, and probably would have eventually landed an almost-perfect job (or at least bought an old house in the country and started a B&B).

As for the language--just dive in. It will be hard and your head will hurt for about a month, and then, BINGO, you will find yourself thinking and speaking in another language. It does take effort at the beginning, and is frustrating at first, but well worth the investment in headaches.

The possibilities are endless! Take your toothbrush and your Bike Friday and BE GONE! Send me a PM if you want me to store your bikes in my basement (secured, alarmed, etc.) Send us messages. Have fun on your recon trip.

Here is a couple thoughts KB:
The US Military hires for schools, fitness centers, and at recreation facilities (ski areas, beach resorts etc.). You work at a US facility, but live and do what ever you like other than that. A good friend did this for 5 years, 3 in Vencenca, Iltaly, and 2 in a ski resort in Bravaria. These are available all over Europe and the Pacific.

American schools, another friend is working for an american language prep school in Lugano, Switzerland. These also have huge recreation programs since they are boarding schools, and like to enrich the already rich students. My friend travels all over Europe with a few students to ski, bike, climb,art tours, or whatever.

Good luck, hope it works out

Does anybody realize that this thread is about umpteen years old? Koffee obviously didn't move abroad as you can see by looking at her location. C'mon people!

Does anybody realize that this thread is about umpteen years old? Koffee obviously didn't move as you can see by looking at her location. C'mon people!

Sh$t, that has happened to me a couple times this week. NEVERMIND
:D Thanks Ranger!

Whoa! Hey! Ho!

I solemnly declare this thread resurrected! :D

Nah, seriously. I thought about moving, but then after I spent the summer here in the D.C. area, I found myself enjoying it so much that I thought I may spend some more time here before I move overseas. An overseas plan is still in the works. I have thought about the military bases- Vicenza has a great base, and it's in a part of the country I wouldn't mind living in. Padova is a great town and so is Verona, and they are both spitting distance from Vicenza. Plus, Campy is there... ;) It could still happen.

I was actually thinking about moving out in stages. I'm thinking about taking a job with a new fitness facility located in a college. I'm off for the summers, which would leave me free to do what I wanted, and so I would want to see if I could get a job in a base someplace overseas for the summer. Then I could see if the 3 1/2 months I'm overseas if I could survive that long away from friends, learn the language, make some contacts, make new friends, etc.

It's still in the works, in other words. Velogirl, I will probably take you up on the offer. Thanks!

Koffee