Advocacy & Safety - Chewd out for running a red light.

I never ran red lights, until today. I stopped for a red in the usual position, left edge of right turn lane. The light changed for the cars going the opposite direction, but not for me, the cross street got another green light while I sat there. Looked behind me and saw a car in the through lane, stopped behind the sensor. I tried to signal her to pull up onto the sensor, but she didn't understand, just sat there. I waited for traffic to clear, and ran the red. About a block later, a woman passed me and pulled to the curb. As I started by, she called out to me. All she wanted was to rag on me for running the red. I explained the reason why, but she wasn't buying it, she kept on ranting. I finally told her that she obviously had a need to deliver her sanctimonious lecture, but I had no need to listen to her irrational rant. She was still yelling at me as I rode away. People!:rolleyes:

Here is a tip....

If you look down at the intersection you will see where the actuator cable has been buried in the pavement. Try to position your bike on a spot where two of the lines come together. If you do that you have the best chance of setting them off. They work off of magnatism and not weight like most people think.

If you position your bike right on the lines they will work 90% plus of the time. Sometimes they are just adjusted (yes they can be adjusted) to strongly for most bikes. When turned down too far they can pick up cars in the other lanes.

that's almost as bad as the idiots who drive the speed limit in the passing lane

Did you wait the equivalent of 3 cycles? That's the AZ law -- wait the equivalent of 3 cycles and if it doesn't change, go.

Ummm Magnetic sensors dont work on Carbon or Al bikes.

Ummm Magnetic sensors dont work on Carbon or Al bikes.

Why do people always say this? I have a carbon bike, an aluminum bike, and steel bikes. All of them set off lights just the same. And that is, they set off lights with no trouble whatsoever. Lights here where I live, and all of the places that I travel seem to set off just fine.

About a block later, a woman passed me and pulled to the curb. As I started by, she called out to me. All she wanted was to rag on me for running the red. I explained the reason why, but she wasn't buying it, she kept on ranting. I finally told her that she obviously had a need to deliver her sanctimonious lecture, but I had no need to listen to her irrational rant. She was still yelling at me as I rode away. People!:rolleyes:

Your case isn't as bad as most red light runners, but maybe the lady is just sick of seeing the lawlessness of bikers.
I too, am sick of seeing red light runners. I am sick of hearing the excuses. And I 'rag' on red light runners too. Stop sign runners as well.

Your case isn't as bad as most red light runners, but maybe the lady is just sick of seeing the lawlessness of bikers.
I too, am sick of seeing red light runners. I am sick of hearing the excuses. And I 'rag' on red light runners too. Stop sign runners as well.

So what is wrong with running a red l;ight or a stop sign when it doesn't affect traffic in any way?

i think you should at least slow to a crawl. if cyclists want cars to be courteous then they will have to start

I never ran red lights, until today. I stopped for a red in the usual position, left edge of right turn lane. The light changed for the cars going the opposite direction, but not for me, the cross street got another green light while I sat there. Looked behind me and saw a car in the through lane, stopped behind the sensor. I tried to signal her to pull up onto the sensor, but she didn't understand, just sat there. I waited for traffic to clear, and ran the red. About a block later, a woman passed me and pulled to the curb. As I started by, she called out to me. All she wanted was to rag on me for running the red. I explained the reason why, but she wasn't buying it, she kept on ranting. I finally told her that she obviously had a need to deliver her sanctimonious lecture, but I had no need to listen to her irrational rant. She was still yelling at me as I rode away. People!:rolleyes:


What you experienced is the completely irrational, unthinking hatred and prejudice that many car drivers have towards bicyclists. They just don't believe cyclists should be on the road and some will act out when given the opportunity. Its obviously irrational behavior because she would NEVER even think of pulling over a car that did exactly the same thing you did and rant and rave at the car driver. If its any consolation, she is a very fearful, frustrated individual.

Don't worry, there are even bicycle riders on this forum like maddyfish that apparently completely agree with what this lady did to you and believe that that you are merely paying for the "sins" of all bicycle red light runners.

Contrary to what Maddyfish believes about red light runners, you are not completely morally bankrupt and bringing on the end of civilized life as we know it. Running red lights is not morally equivalent to eletrocuting kittens or pushing little old ladies in front of speeding buses.

So what is wrong with running a red l;ight or a stop sign when it doesn't affect traffic in any way?

It triggers the wrath of "sick" Sanctimonious Nannys who like to "rag" about what makes them sick, to anyone willing to listen to them.

Did you wait the equivalent of 3 cycles? That's the AZ law -- wait the equivalent of 3 cycles and if it doesn't change, go.

I never understood the states that had laws dealing with this issue that required you to wait for a certain number of cycles of the lights, since the whole reason for the law in the first place is that the light isn't cycling!

So what is wrong with running a red l;ight or a stop sign when it doesn't affect traffic in any way?

IMHO people become so used to running a stop sign when no one is coming the when the day comes that someone is coming they run it anyway out of habit. It seems to happen often on rural streets near where I live.

We all recognize that people don't see bicycles coming because they aren't trained to look for them. I believe that "no one was coming" stopsign runners are training themselves not to look because they don't expect anyone to be there.

If you attach a 10-20$ Neobedyium Magnet (SP?) to the bottom of the crack hub (K and J Magnetics did me good!) You will have the equivalent of a small car effect on those coils. (centered over the line somewhere. The Street coils actually have a low freq AC field on it similar to a beach combers metal detector. A motor cycle stopped in the middle of the one of those coils often does not even set it off and you'd be suprised howmany people think these are pressure switches.

It triggers the wrath of "sick" Sanctimonious Nannys who like to "rag" about what makes them sick, to anyone willing to listen to them.

How very true. But its so much fun getting them riled up and then shutting them down logically.

Running reds is illegal. If you had pulled off the road for a few seconds the driver would have pulled forward and activated the light.... not too difficult to figure out.

I, too, get motivated to run a red when the motorists aren't helping to trigger the induction sensors.

Running reds is illegal. If you had pulled off the road for a few seconds the driver would have pulled forward and activated the light.... not too difficult to figure out.I stopped at a red light recently where the lady at the light had pulled her car out slightly into the intersection, past the sensor. My bike wouldn't trigger the sensor and there was no other cars in the turn lane. After two cycles we both ran the red light.

Ummm Magnetic sensors dont work on Carbon or Al bikes.

No they don't. Then again, they're not magnetic sensors, they're inductive. Slight difference. And it's not mass that trips them, it's surface area.

When faced with this situation, I've done the following

-Run it, best done when it's a deserted
-Dismount and walk across as a pedestrian
-Do a right on red, hang a U-Turn and then another right on red

I never ran red lights, until today...

You can never get your virginity back...don't sweat the sanctimonious.

Once again, here's the link to the explanation of induction loop traffic sensors, and how bicycles with aluminum rims should set them off just fine. Magnetism or iron content itself isn't relevant. Of course, it has to be working correctly. Dunno about full carbon rims and frame - do they have an AL core? Maybe there's enough aluminum/steel in the hubs, axles, etc. If not, maybe you do need the big chunk of metal on your BB.

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

Quote "It is possible for an inductive loop sensor to detect any conductive material such as aluminum, steel, or titanium. Note that it is the shape, size, and net conductivity of the material that matters most to this type of sensor system, not whether or not the object contains iron. Also note that the wheels of the bike are the most effective bike parts for detection. Even a bike with a non-metallic frame may be detected if the rims are conductive. However, the signal sensor circuit must be adjusted to be sensitive enough."

I still see remnants of old pressure sensors on freeway onramps - big steel plates in the road.

I've also hit the pedestrian button to get a signal.

Here is a tip....

If you look down at the intersection you will see where the actuator cable has been buried in the pavement. Try to position your bike on a spot where two of the lines come together. If you do that you have the best chance of setting them off. They work off of magnatism and not weight like most people think.

If you position your bike right on the lines they will work 90% plus of the time. Sometimes they are just adjusted (yes they can be adjusted) to strongly for most bikes. When turned down too far they can pick up cars in the other lanes.

Many traffic lights here on the West Coast are now triggered by cameras (CCD's), not induction loops. They're a lot cheaper for the municipalities to maintain than something that has to be buried in the pavement.

Unfortunately, the CCD's can overlook bikes - sometimes they get misaligned due to high winds, sometimes they get "blinded" by the sun, etc.

I never wait "3 cycles"...that's just nuts. If I can see that my presence has not triggered the light, I proceed through when it's safe, per California's "broken signal" law.

FWIW, the law in Idaho allows cyclists to treat all red lights as stop signs...after stopping, bikes are permitted to proceed through the red, unless there's other traffic nearby with right of way.

Running reds is illegal.

He didn't run a red. In fact, he waited patiently until it became clear that the system was malfunctioning and then did what anyone in a car would have done.

When confronted with silly bits like the car driver in this situation, I try to ask them to imagine that I was driving my car - would the driver have even thought twice about driving through a non functioning intersection? Seems pretty unlikely...

They just passed a law here in SC that says you can run a light if it hasn't changed in 2 minutes **AND** if no other vehicle is around. Good law.

Did you wait the equivalent of 3 cycles? That's the AZ law -- wait the equivalent of 3 cycles and if it doesn't change, go.

I would fall asleep waiting that long.

Ahh come on. Have fun with it. If people want to insist on giving complete strangers critiques, it doesn't hurt none to make them explain their positions clearly. I would have looked like I was listening intently and afterwards replied, "So what you're saying is that I made some sort of etiquette error?" Never turn down a good entertainment opportunity.

Did you wait the equivalent of 3 cycles? That's the AZ law -- wait the equivalent of 3 cycles and if it doesn't change, go.


I would fall asleep waiting that long.

I think I would take up smoking and have a smoke if I had to wait 3 cycles. Either scenario is just as likely to happen.

If it makes the OP feel any better, I got yelled at today. There was a point in the cycle at a "T" intersection where all motorists had red lights, with walk signs for pedestrians. Countdown timers = kinda safe to run the red light.

Unfortunately I had one of those "which-way-are-we-avoiding-each-other-ill-go-left-no!-ill-try-going-left-again-ohmigod" moments with a pedestrian. I do this in the hall at school sometimes but in this case I got an earful. As I yelled "Sorry," I realized the lady was a parking enforcement officer, who was saying something to me again. I said, "Sorry again!" and then made sure to pedal away quick in case she had the power to give me a ticket or something.

Maybe I should stop trying to be considerate by riding between the through lane and the right turn lane. Just take the through lane so I can trip the sensor and not worry about the cars doing it. I've never had a car stop that far back before, and likely never will again, so I'll just keep on keeping on. I would have moved over and tripped the sensor, but it's a bit of a chore with the loaded trailer attached. :)

Why do people always say this? I have a carbon bike, an aluminum bike, and steel bikes. All of them set off lights just the same. And that is, they set off lights with no trouble whatsoever. Lights here where I live, and all of the places that I travel seem to set off just fine.

This leads me to think that it is you who set off the sensors and not your bike. I can't see how a carbon bike could have enough ferrous metal to set off an induction sensor.

Or maybe you have motion sensors? Is there a little box on each light?

This leads me to think that it is you who set off the sensors and not your bike. I can't see how a carbon bike could have enough ferrous metal to set off an induction sensor.

Or maybe you have motion sensors? Is there a little box on each light?

Not true, you do not need to have a "ferrous" material. In most of todays rims, they have enough Al for inductance. Thus, for a properly adjusted inductive sensor, a rim is sufficient to be detected and change the light (even on a CF frame).

For an improperly adjusted sensor (as most in Hawaii), NO bicycle will trip them.

The links above (post 21) have been repeatedly posted. Cyclist, please read them and learn; rather than repeatedly posting myth.

I never ran red lights, until today. I stopped for a red in the usual position, left edge of right turn lane. The light changed for the cars going the opposite direction, but not for me, the cross street got another green light while I sat there. Looked behind me and saw a car in the through lane, stopped behind the sensor. I tried to signal her to pull up onto the sensor, but she didn't understand, just sat there. I waited for traffic to clear, and ran the red. About a block later, a woman passed me and pulled to the curb. As I started by, she called out to me. All she wanted was to rag on me for running the red. I explained the reason why, but she wasn't buying it, she kept on ranting. I finally told her that she obviously had a need to deliver her sanctimonious lecture, but I had no need to listen to her irrational rant. She was still yelling at me as I rode away. People!:rolleyes:

That this happened in Utah makes so much sense. Getting into other people's business is this state's speciality. You should have asked her if you could follow her home, so you could criticize her housekeeping.

That this happened in Utah makes so much sense. Getting into other people's business is this state's speciality. You should have asked her if you could follow her home, so you could criticize her housekeeping.I was thinking he should have asked her for her drivers license, registration and insurance. If she wants to play cop, he might as well play cop too.

I never understood the states that had laws dealing with this issue that required you to wait for a certain number of cycles of the lights, since the whole reason for the law in the first place is that the light isn't cycling!

Hence the term "equivalent." Read next time before trying to respond with a witty quip.


I would fall asleep waiting that long.

Sad. That's just the law in Tucson last I checked. Guess it's not the city for you.

That's the AZ law -- wait the equivalent of 3 cycles and if it doesn't change, go.

No it isn't. In AZ one can treat an inoperative traffic signal as a stop sign. A 4-way if there is x-traffic.

Al

I never ran red lights, until today. I stopped for a red in the usual position, left edge of right turn lane. The light changed for the cars going the opposite direction, but not for me, the cross street got another green light while I sat there. Looked behind me and saw a car in the through lane, stopped behind the sensor. I tried to signal her to pull up onto the sensor, but she didn't understand, just sat there. <SNIP>:

I know what you mean. I had a similar incident about two weeks ago. Most of the time even my mostly carbon fiber bike will set of the sensors just fine. I was the fist at the light and it just did not change. After waiting for 4 minutes I pulled through. Once I pulled through, I could see in my rear view mirror that the car behind me did trigger the light, but by then I was nearly two blocks down the road.

I also had this happen once when I had to drive into work during a snow emergency. Once of the side roads only was plowed down the center (barely 1 lane wide). I was not able to move over to the right to line up properly unless I wanted to try to cross 12" to 18" of snow... not going to happen in my normal passenger sedan. Since there was a driving bad (I was exempt and had the paperwork to prove it), the roads were dead quiet and I ran the light.

As far as what is wrong with running red lights on purpose. It is illegal and completely stupid to do in a car and why would it not be the same for a cyclist? I don't understand how some cyclist thing they are above the law. Sure I've been at intersections at 3:00 am and there is NO traffic anywhere... but running a red light just isn't right.

I did run a red light once on purpose. I was taking my wife to the hospital as her asthma was acting up a bit. When we got to withing two blocks of the hospital she blacked out on me... I drove to the ER enterance as quickly as I could. But that was a life and death situation.

Happy riding,
André

. . . As I started by, she called out to me. All she wanted was to rag on me for running the red. I explained the reason why, but she wasn't buying it, she kept on ranting. I finally told her that she obviously had a need to deliver her sanctimonious lecture, but I had no need to listen to her irrational rant. She was still yelling at me as I rode away. People!:rolleyes:

Let her rave. With practice, you can cause individuals like this to completely disappear from your consciousness.

Myself , I treat these red lights as a flashing red light. Stop, look, then Go! If it will not work for a bicyclist then go safely. Do not worry about lecturing Lou..tell her to talk to the city/state/or county
commisisioners about the problem of non-operating stoplisght for bicyclist.

Bob

The magnet trick is a good one. I recently read something on instructables about using the neodymium magnets on the bottom of your bike or scooter. I guess it works really well.

Why are there so many complaints about bicycles running red lights?

I remember 20 years ago, all motorists were complaining about was the bicycle was "too slow".

This must have something to do with the internet, it must be an organized campaign.

If we bicyclists complained every time a car driver ignored a speed limit sign...
We wouldn't have enough time in the day to list them all!

Actually, today I went through a red light. But I had stopped,three cars from the light, and decided not to pass on the right, because two of them had right turn signals on. It turned yellow by the time I entered the intersection and I saw it turn red. The delay was the result of the second cars driver waiting, expecting me to pass him on the right. So only three cars and a bike got through in one cycle of the light.

So what is wrong with running a red l;ight or a stop sign when it doesn't affect traffic in any way?

I say that while driving my car every day.

Why are there so many complaints about bicycles running red lights?


I may have a bicycle, but I am not a cyclist.

So from my opinion across the aisle, it is the hypocrisy. If a bicyclist wants to be treated as a vehicle, and have equal access to the road, he should not be on the sidewalk, and have to obey all traffic laws. You can't have your cake and eat it too. :lol:

Kinda the reason white men hate affirmative action. If women and minorities are equal, you shouldn't need special provisions to give extra benefits.

Me, personally, I think cyclists should obey the laws, but cagers need to respect them. I won't pull out in front of a bike and I don't try to run him off the road. But that's just me. ;)