Road Bike Racing - Power loss

I've lost some of my sprinting power, and I'm not entirely sure why.

In the spring, I was just riding to get in shape. In the local spring crit series, I peaked at a sad 950ish watts in the closing sprint. Each week, the number got higher, until by the final round in April I was at 1350 for 5 secs in the closing sprint.

At the end of that series, I was beginning to adopt a more structured program. None of that program involved sprinting (neither had it in the late winter/early spring time). Now that I'm coming along in that program, I'm trying to sprint once again, but I'm only getting numbers such as 1200 watts for 5 secs. YIKES! Didn't think I'd be going in reverse.

So, I've tried to isolate all other aspects, and the only thing that could be doing me in is the LACK of racing. Is it possible that (even at my level) that I could have been racing myself into a sprint in the spring? Would it take more than 1 race every week to do that? It's all I can put my finger on, but I'm curious as to whether or not it's a valid reason for losing power.

Any insights appreciated!

PS. Thought about posting this in the "training and nutrition" forum, but figured that it was racing-specific enough to be put here.

no idea, but some things to think consider:

are you comparing race vs. non-race situations? on different courses? at different times in your effort (i.e. after 60 mins. of workout/racing vs. early in workout, etc.). you might be doing an apples v. oranges comparison.

was 1350 a one time deal? what were your others? maybe the 1350 was a calibration/zeroing issue and is anomylous whereas the 1200 is more accurate.

fwiw, I hit my max wattages in a structured sprint workout with a leadout on a slight uphill stretch. Solo sprint practice isnt remotely close, nor is my sprint at the end of a race (typically).

no idea, but some things to think consider:

are you comparing race vs. non-race situations? on different courses? at different times in your effort (i.e. after 60 mins. of workout/racing vs. early in workout, etc.). you might be doing an apples v. oranges comparison.

was 1350 a one time deal? what were your others? maybe the 1350 was a calibration/zeroing issue and is anomylous whereas the 1200 is more accurate.

fwiw, I hit my max wattages in a structured sprint workout with a leadout on a slight uphill stretch. Solo sprint practice isnt remotely close, nor is my sprint at the end of a race (typically).

Good stuff.

Yes, everything is different. Race vs. practice is the biggest difference. Both courses were flat. The practice aspect was a sprint interval workout. The race was a short crit after 30 or so minutes of riding (that's where the 1350 came from). I'm sure that the PM was zero'ed, but it was the high effort of the season.

Regardless, I'd figure that it would've been the same now since I'm not doing anything less, except racing.

I'm glad to know that different situations bring about such different results. I've never compared wattage numbers (and when they were produced) with any other rider, save for one. So, it's good to hear that it can vary.

Thanks!a

weight loss

Yeah, my race 5s power is about 200W lower than my test 5s power. For reliable data, you want repeatable results. My last three 5s tests were all within 10W of each other (0.6%), so I can track trends off of that.

weight loss

Ugh, I wish! (lost a few, but not enough to explain it...)


Yeah, my race 5s power is about 200W lower than my test 5s power. For reliable data, you want repeatable results. My last three 5s tests were all within 10W of each other (0.6%), so I can track trends off of that.

I hear you on that, WR. The only difference in the race vs. practice situation is the adrenaline in a race (hadn't worked much that race, and was hoping for a win...). I guess keeping it consistent and using practice numbers will help.

Thanks for the responses!

i've never seen my max power in a race as high as it is doing sprints in training.

Going for 10-15 seconds on 5 minutes rest is much more conducive to high numbers than sprinting at the end of a race with fatigue, as well as tactical demands interfering.

So you do need to compare apples to apples.

so you trained yourself to sprint, then you stopped training to sprint, and your sprint power went down?

??

ok so to be marginally constructive:

I have a horrible sprint, but the books I've read (carmaichel, friel, that guy with the big glasses.... ) suggest that sprint power comes on fast, and dies off fast. This is why sprinting is in the latter part of periodization, and LT work is in the former.

Solution: Why don't you start training your sprint again?

i've never seen my max power in a race as high as it is doing sprints in training.

Going for 10-15 seconds on 5 minutes rest is much more conducive to high numbers than sprinting at the end of a race with fatigue, as well as tactical demands interfering.

So you do need to compare apples to apples.

Agreed. Maybe my original post was a bit confusing (I'm prone to do that), but my high sprint number came at the end of a race - not in practice. So, that's what aids my confusion, why can't I replicate that speed in practice now? (as said before, PT was/is calibrated properly).



so you trained yourself to sprint, then you stopped training to sprint, and your sprint power went down?

??

I never specifically trained myself to sprint in the spring, outside of the end of a race. That's why I'm not understanding why I can't sprint as well now, when I've done no more/no less sprint training (just less racing).


ok so to be marginally constructive:

I have a horrible sprint, but the books I've read (carmaichel, friel, that guy with the big glasses.... ) suggest that sprint power comes on fast, and dies off fast. This is why sprinting is in the latter part of periodization, and LT work is in the former.

Solution: Why don't you start training your sprint again?

Thanks for the constructive post. :) Much appreciated. I will be training my sprint once and for all, now that I have a more structured plan (hence why I'm doing this now, and not in the spring). I just didn't know that a sprint can die off a bit just from a lack of racing (1x200m x 5 races = results? weird...).

Thanks for the replies. I'm learning and it's helping me sort through what might've happened.

Has your 5min and FTP improved?

Interconversion of fast twitch fibers IIb -> IIa will decrease your sprint power.

Has your 5min and FTP improved?

Interconversion of fast twitch fibers IIb -> IIa will decrease your sprint power.

Enthalpic I definitely enjoy your posts on the BForums as they are highly informative.

This one is only going to confuse this poor young man from the east coast. He has a hard time with highly advanced vocabulary like "interconversion" "IIb-IIa".

I couldn't resist BA!

Enthalpic I definitely enjoy your posts on the BForums as they are highly informative.

This one is only going to confuse this poor young man from the east coast. He has a hard time with highly advanced vocabulary like "interconversion" "IIb-IIa".

I couldn't resist BA!

Ahhh... you suck. :lol:

Has your 5min and FTP improved?

Interconversion of fast twitch fibers IIb -> IIa will decrease your sprint power.

Good point.

Also I'm never as fast or as strong training as I am in a race.

As WR said, look for repeatable numbers you can generate in training and base assumptions on that not what you can miracle out your ass in a race.

It's possible that you lost some upper body strength. Or maybe you didn't. In the two good field sprints I did at Bethel I jumped at 1300 and my power bled off rapidly after my jump. The latter is normal, the former (number) is not. And I can lift much more now than I could before, and my core is much stronger, so maybe upper body isn't it.

So, I dunno.

Different cadence? I find my jump is better at lower rpms (80-90), but power is easy to generate at higher rpms (90-110). I am still struggling to find power in the sprint. I'm even contemplating going back to 175s.

Will you be at Nutmeg? I'm thinking of going early to watch the 10:30 or so race.

cdr

Good point.

Also I'm never as fast or as strong training as I am in a race.

As WR said, look for repeatable numbers you can generate in training and base assumptions on that not what you can miracle out your ass in a race.

It's weird, some people are stronger in a race, and some are stronger in practice. I guess it depends upon what your in-race strategies are. All I know is, if it wasn't for the miracles that my ass produces, I'd be in deep dookie.


It's possible that you lost some upper body strength. Or maybe you didn't. In the two good field sprints I did at Bethel I jumped at 1300 and my power bled off rapidly after my jump. The latter is normal, the former (number) is not. And I can lift much more now than I could before, and my core is much stronger, so maybe upper body isn't it.

So, I dunno.

Different cadence? I find my jump is better at lower rpms (80-90), but power is easy to generate at higher rpms (90-110). I am still struggling to find power in the sprint. I'm even contemplating going back to 175s.

Will you be at Nutmeg? I'm thinking of going early to watch the 10:30 or so race.

cdr

Hey CDR,

I need to mess around with cadence too. That's actually a good point. I think that in a race the motor percolating, speeds are higher, and I'm able to jump on it without getting bogged down (due to higher speeds). Perhaps in practice, I'm turning too slow a cadence (as I'll be able to build more momentum relative to starting speed).

I totally forgot about New Britain, and I was focused on potentially doing Prospect Park. Now that I've looked at it, I think I have about an hour to pre-register! I'd rather do NB, as I can sleep in about 3-4 hours longer. Besides, it's a 4/5 race, so it should be fun (Primes are new to me...). I think I'll do that. :thumb:

The thing to consider is that as the season progresses, your max-power will typically decrease. There's lots of long endurance events where you're catabolizing muscle, there's insufficient recovery time, not enough rest, less off-bike training, etc. At the end of the season in the fall, my max-power can actually be only 1/2 of what it was at the beginning of the seaon. Perfectly normal.

Then it's back into the gym and weight/strength-training over the winter to build up the muscle that was lost during the season. With some LSD miles in the spring transitioning into speedwork, by the end of Feb, early March, I'm back at my max-power for the year.

The thing to consider is that as the season progresses, your max-power will typically decrease. There's lots of long endurance events where you're catabolizing muscle, there's insufficient recovery time, not enough rest, less off-bike training, etc. At the end of the season in the fall, my max-power can actually be only 1/2 of what it was at the beginning of the seaon. Perfectly normal.

Then it's back into the gym and weight/strength-training over the winter to build up the muscle that was lost during the season. With some LSD miles in the spring transitioning into speedwork, by the end of Feb, early March, I'm back at my max-power for the year.

Whoa. That actually makes sense. Thanks Danno.

I think that settles it. I'm going to do CDR's spring series next year and then stick a fork in my season. ;)

Thanks for all the responses. They've been really helpful! :beer:

Sounds like you've got a handle on things. Another caveat to be careful about is overtraining during the season. You have to add the races into your training schedule and consider their efforts and miles as well. So you can't be riding 500-miles/wk of training AND be doing 2-3 races a week as well. You gotta cut way back on the training miles so you don't overtrain.

Sounds like you've got a handle on things. Another caveat to be careful about is overtraining during the season. You have to add the races into your training schedule and consider their efforts and miles as well. So you can't be riding 500-miles/wk of training AND be doing 2-3 races a week as well. You gotta cut way back on the training miles so you don't overtrain.

Thanks Danno. As always, your advice is top notch. I'll heed it and see what changes I can bring about. Thanks much!

Hopefully I will be in decent shape to do bethel and plainville next year as well :)

This info is good to know, and most of my training over the winter is going to be on indoor trainers and in the gym till my body is done healing. It'll be fun to race with you again brian! I'm guessing you're a four now, eh?

I have 4 more races to get to the 4's, so I might just do bethel and plainville for two weekends straight. Lets see how it all goes :)

Hopefully I will be in decent shape to do bethel and plainville next year as well :)

This info is good to know, and most of my training over the winter is going to be on indoor trainers and in the gym till my body is done healing. It'll be fun to race with you again brian! I'm guessing you're a four now, eh?

I have 4 more races to get to the 4's, so I might just do bethel and plainville for two weekends straight. Lets see how it all goes :)

Hey, RTC!

Nope, I'm still a five. I think I have three more races. Depending upon how many more I can do, I'll probably just close out the year in the 5's.

Yeah, lots of good info in this thread. I'm sure that once you're healed you'll come out swinging. No worries. Just heal quick! :beer: