Training & Nutrition - I give up - I just plain suck!

In the past, I've discussed my inability to ride distances longer than about 100-110 km without major problems. The consensus then was that it was caused by lack of water and/or energy and that eating more and drinking more during the ride would solve the problem.

Sadly, it is now clear to me that neither is a factor.

The previous Friday, I went on a solo ride over 146 km. I started out with 3 L of water (Camelbak pouch) and 1.5 L of sports drink (in my bottles), as well as 3-4 bananas, a few chocolate bars, and some crispy bread.

When I arrived, I had about 0.5 L of water left in the pouch, none of the sports drink (total about 250-300 g of carbs) and I had eaten three large (150 g each peeled) bananas, all the chocolate (about 180 g) and some of the bread (maybe 50 g). In addition to that, I had done a minor carb loading the day before and I had eaten a steady breakfast with plenty of water before I left.

(A total of ~2400-2500 kcal and 4 L of water.)

Already at about 80-90 km, my power dropped noticeably and past 110 km, I had to stop and rest every 3-4 km simply because there was no more efficient power to be had from my legs. Extreme physical (no mental) fatigue.

Most of the ride, my HR was at about 70-75 % of my max HR (based on working HR), so I wasn't exactly burning myself out...

Of the 6 hours and 20 minutes it took, I spent almost exactly one hour stopped!

I'm so tired of sucking at long distances.

Are these long excursions your only regular times in the saddle? If so, I would suggest that you ride more. Hours on the bicycle, that's the cure. Try commuting to work on your bike. If it's not that far forom home, go the looong way. If it's far, problem solved (you don't have to do it every day of the week). That's how I log extra miles in my training without having to worry about motivating myself. Putting bread on the table is motivation enough!

Do more long rides.


Most of the ride, my HR was at about 70-75 % of my max HR

I do my long rides at under 60% of Max HR. I can ride all day there.

how long have you been riding?

Oh dear...

No, I'm not going to start this all over again. This was just an update in case anyone who took part in the original discussion should happen to remember it.

Well, perhaps rather than randomly choosing food and drink, you should be more precise about it. Get the Hammer Nutrition "Endurance Athlete's GUIDE to SUCCESS", read and understand it, and get some Perpetuem. Part of your problem may have been eating too much solid food, so your stomach is trying to digest it, stealing bloodflow from the rest of your body. Careful and continual fueling is necessary for endurance riding for most cyclists. While some folks can do 200k and eat hoagies, most cannot.

I think it's normal to get tired when you do more than what you're used to doing.

Decide how much you want to ride (not how much you think you should ride). Then gradually work up to that distance. Ride until you're quite tired, then ride for 10 minutes more. Then that's enough for today.

Try not to get upset. It's supposed to be fun and feel good, but it doesn't sound like you're having much fun.

I'm pretty confident that I know what your problem is. You are running out of salt. You can lose considerable quantities through your sweat, and you are getting very little in what you're eating and drinking. You don't store much salt, and when you run out you get they symptoms you described. I utterly stopped on on a mountain climb last year because of this issue.

If you want a lot more information, I wrote this a while back:

http://riderx.info/blogs/riderx/archive/2007/08/17/the-importance-of-staying-salty.aspx

You can use salt tablets, or you can use beef jerky, which most people tolerate pretty well and has a gram of sodium in a small package. Using more sports drink and less water can help as well, and you will absorb the hydration drink faster than pure water (because it contains some electrolytes). If you just like the water feel, you can get electrolyte tablets that go in your water (and they don't gum up your camelback).

I also think you're a little high on calories - you generally want 200-250 cal/hour.

Give that a try, and let me know whether that works for you.

If anything, you're eating too much. Don't eat until you're hungry. Trainers used to say the opposite, but were wrong. Trainers used to say that drinking water was bad because it gave you cramps, too. You're close, though. If you feel bloated, stop eating and just drink water for a while.

Mostly you need to experience that feeling of total exhaustion more frequently. When I plan long training rides, I like to put some impossible hill near the finish, just to really rip 'em apart. Cry for your mama. I very commonly have an average HR of 80% of MHR for an 85 mile ride. Sometimes higher. So I'll frequently be at or over LT to get an average that high. Of course you can go longer if you go slow, but that's not the point, is it? You want to go both long and hard. Don't we all . . .

Try this: every week, do one totally exhausting long ride like you describe, where you almost fall apart, or maybe do fall apart. Take it to the limit. During the week, keep it on the flat or almost flat if you can, and keep the HR down in zone 2. But do some mileage, at least as much total during the week as you did on the weekend ride. If you're old like me, leave it at that. If you're young and recover well, you will benefit from some intervals on Wednesday and/or Thursday and maybe some fastpedal drills or one-legged pedaling on Tuesday. On the day after your killer ride, do 45 minutes in zone 1 on the trainer or rollers. Or go for a long walk. On Friday, do another zone 1 ride indoors. Another great midweek drill is to ride intervals at a zone 3 HR and very high cadence, 10-15 rpm faster than your normal cruise. Two 20-30 minute intervals, with only 5 minutes rest between.

You have to be well-recovered for the killer ride or there's no point; you'll just tear yourself down. And maybe that's the problem, so experiment with your midweek workouts. On the killer ride, it should be easy to kick your HR way up on a good long hill. If it's not, you're too tired. Also, this kind of endurance takes years to build up. It's not going to happen in two seasons. And it helps to ride and workout all winter to get a good base. Perpetual base.

Have fun, and never give up.

....whats crispy bread?

Oh just leave it. I wasn't asking for advice. If I were, I'd have given you sufficient background info.

My OP was just an FYI. Now go play somewhere else!

Heh.. :)

Don't worry, I suck too.

In the past, I've discussed my inability to ride distances longer than about 100-110 km without major problems. The consensus then was that it was caused by lack of water and/or energy and that eating more and drinking more during the ride would solve the problem.

Sadly, it is now clear to me that neither is a factor.

The previous Friday, I went on a solo ride over 146 km. I started out with 3 L of water (Camelbak pouch) and 1.5 L of sports drink (in my bottles), as well as 3-4 bananas, a few chocolate bars, and some crispy bread.

When I arrived, I had about 0.5 L of water left in the pouch, none of the sports drink (total about 250-300 g of carbs) and I had eaten three large (150 g each peeled) bananas, all the chocolate (about 180 g) and some of the bread (maybe 50 g). In addition to that, I had done a minor carb loading the day before and I had eaten a steady breakfast with plenty of water before I left.

(A total of ~2400-2500 kcal and 4 L of water.)

Already at about 80-90 km, my power dropped noticeably and past 110 km, I had to stop and rest every 3-4 km simply because there was no more efficient power to be had from my legs. Extreme physical (no mental) fatigue.

Most of the ride, my HR was at about 70-75 % of my max HR (based on working HR), so I wasn't exactly burning myself out...

Of the 6 hours and 20 minutes it took, I spent almost exactly one hour stopped!

I'm so tired of sucking at long distances.

Next time I head down to Gotenborg, I'm bringing my bike so we can ride together. I totally forgot that you lived there- we could have ridden together when I went in November!

Anyway, I know people will agree with me, but I think you ate too little. On my longest ride, 201 km, I started at 4 am and ended at 2 pm. I also stopped for lunch for an hour, and took at least 3 10 minute breaks and a 20 minute break while my friend, who was there for a few km of the ride, took a business call. In that time, I had chocolate chip cookies, cake, ice cream, gatorade, water, snickers bars, and coca cola. But that's me. I think when it comes to nutrition and hydration, you'll know what works best for you.

I think probably... PROBABLY is just more time doing more distance riding. Perhaps you just took on more than you can chew. In my humble opinion, I say you should dial back your training and start working on training for 80- 100 km rides. If that's where you cracked, that is where your weak point is. This is going to involve a lot of long distance riding in the saddle. It may take up to another season of riding for you to work through the rough patch and get to that next level of your riding experience. So maybe just spend the season working up to riding 100 km comfortably. Then over this next winter and spring, start on the offseason work with building up the base miles needed so when late spring hits, you're ready to work on increasing VO2 max, improving with your hill riding, etc. And definitely, by that time, you'll know what you need to do so that you can push into those longer rides without fading out at the end. I wouldn't rush it. If you couldn't do it, it just means you weren't ready. Luckily, you know at what point it went wrong so you can rewind back to that point and start training from there.

You don't suck, dood. And email me so I can make arrangements to hook up when I get back to Volvoland!

koffee

^^^ Could you please confirm that this "new" Koffee Brown was the old Koffee Brown, who was a moderator on BikeForums sometime ago?

Regards,

In the past, I've discussed my inability to ride distances longer than about 100-110 km without major problems. The consensus then was that it was caused by lack of water and/or energy and that eating more and drinking more during the ride would solve the problem.

Sadly, it is now clear to me that neither is a factor.

The previous Friday, I went on a solo ride over 146 km. I started out with 3 L of water (Camelbak pouch) and 1.5 L of sports drink (in my bottles), as well as 3-4 bananas, a few chocolate bars, and some crispy bread.

When I arrived, I had about 0.5 L of water left in the pouch, none of the sports drink (total about 250-300 g of carbs) and I had eaten three large (150 g each peeled) bananas, all the chocolate (about 180 g) and some of the bread (maybe 50 g). In addition to that, I had done a minor carb loading the day before and I had eaten a steady breakfast with plenty of water before I left.

(A total of ~2400-2500 kcal and 4 L of water.)

Already at about 80-90 km, my power dropped noticeably and past 110 km, I had to stop and rest every 3-4 km simply because there was no more efficient power to be had from my legs. Extreme physical (no mental) fatigue.

Most of the ride, my HR was at about 70-75 % of my max HR (based on working HR), so I wasn't exactly burning myself out...

Of the 6 hours and 20 minutes it took, I spent almost exactly one hour stopped!

I'm so tired of sucking at long distances.

Do you believe in 'doing all things in Christ which strengthen you?' Dont give up, I am certain you dont suck, you are just not where you want to be YET.

Next time I head down to Gotenborg, I'm bringing my bike so we can ride together. I totally forgot that you lived there- we could have ridden together when I went in November!
dood. And email me so I can make arrangements to hook up when I get back to Volvoland!

koffee

Cool! Looking forward to it!

But down here? Aren't you in Chicago? We're at 57°N! :D