I didn't specify one way or the other. That was just how Harris Cyclery built it. I didn't research spoke lacing, so I didn't request one style or the other. If you're curious why they chose that pattern, I'm sure they could give you their reasoning.

That's interesting - I'm pretty sure Sheldon Brown, Harris's chief tech before his death, specifies that he doesn't believe in radial lacing of rear wheels on his site. I'm more interested in the nay-sayers however; whether they've simply read and believed articles that said don't do it, or whether they have seen real problems themselves.

Have you actually done this? Interestingly, I've only ever read negative comments from people who have "received wisdom" that it's a bad idea, countered by "I've done it and it's fine" comments from people who've, er, done it. I have no experience either way, but I'd be interested to hear from people who have done it, and suffered problems.

Personally, low spoke count wheels, radial lacing etc etc ALL seem like a bad idea!

The reason to avoid radial lacing is that it cannot resist torsion caused by pedaling. The best option would have been to build 1x, as the torque seen by a 16" wheel is rather small.

I can see why Harris built it radial, however. Aftermarket, the only version of the Sturmey 8 is the 36 hole version. With that many spokes, with that large of a hub flange, and that small of a rim, it is seriously difficult to build the wheel in anything but radial lacing.

It is too bad that the customized 28h versions of Nexus 8 and Sturmey 8 are only available to the OEM's.

I wonder if Yan would sell a 28h Sturmey 8...

In the UK I can buy a 28h SA 8 speed aftermarket no problem.

I can see why Harris built it radial, however. Aftermarket, the only version of the Sturmey 8 is the 36 hole version. With that many spokes, with that large of a hub flange, and that small of a rim, it is seriously difficult to build the wheel in anything but radial lacing.



Hah! That was the exact set of considerations/constraints that I had in building up the rear wheel on my restoration MK3. I substituted a 36h SA8 hub, had a 28h rim. I figured the spokes were so short (123mm) that I could get away with it.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/sesamecrunch/radialwheels1.jpg

I've had no problems, but then again, I haven't ridden this bike very hard or very long. I think I will go back and see if I can put a 1X in it, though, just to be safe. Or even 1X on just the drive side. Better safe than sorry.

What does "1X" mean?

What does it cost for that conversion? I'd have loved to get the SL instead of the D3, but they were seriously backorded.

It's a good question. I'm not very far into the process.. a Sturmey-Archer (http://www.sturmey-archer.com/hubs_8spd_XRF8.php) 8speed runs about $170, but I see they have a 28 spoke for 155mm axle, and a 36 spoke for 170mm, and I'm still not sure if the 28-spoke hub is the right size (anyone know the axle length on the Curve?) The LBS tech said he may be able to re-use the existing rear wheel spokes since the bike is new.

It's not a cheap upgrade, for sure. Oh, and Sturmey Archer said if I could wait a couple of months, they have a new 8speed internal hub coming out with a wider gear range than the current model. But, two months is like a lifetime....

Hah! That was the exact set of considerations/constraints that I had in building up the rear wheel on my restoration MK3. I substituted a 36h SA8 hub, had a 28h rim. I figured the spokes were so short (123mm) that I could get away with it.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/sesamecrunch/radialwheels1.jpg

I've had no problems, but then again, I haven't ridden this bike very hard or very long. I think I will go back and see if I can put a 1X in it, though, just to be safe. Or even 1X on just the drive side. Better safe than sorry.

Given that this is a Moulton you are building--i.e., a classic bike--why didn't you get a 28H SA hub from the other side of the Atlantic?

What does "1X" mean?

It refers to the spoke lacing pattern -- radial is 0X -- of the wheel and the number of spokes that each spoke crosses.

What does it cost for that conversion? I'd have loved to get the SL instead of the D3, but they were seriously backorded.

Yeah, its not cheap. I spent $300 + shipping. However, I could justify it because I got the Curve for only $360 on Ebay. Yes, still a little more than the Mini, but when I got the Curve, the 2009 Mini was not out yet. (I really wanted the inside folding handle post).


Um.......and you guys are going to laugh at me, but I might actually sell it after all that. I haven't used it more than once or twice since I got the used Hon Solo. :innocent: Rhm, you can have your 19t ring back if I do.


So if anyone wants to make an offer....

Um.......and you guys are going to laugh at me, but I might actually sell it after all that. I haven't used it more than once or twice since I got the used Hon Solo. :innocent: Rhm, you can have your 19t ring back if I do.


Nice!!.. put some pics up of your Hon Solo.. how's the wood holding up.. always thought that was a beautiful look..

Given that this is a Moulton you are building--i.e., a classic bike--why didn't you get a 28H SA hub from the other side of the Atlantic?

I'm comfortable with what I already have, and don't wish to buy another hub, especially since I plan to put the 1X in it. I do subscribe to the school of thought that the short spokes are less vulnerable.

Nice!!.. put some pics up of your Hon Solo.. how's the wood holding up.. always thought that was a beautiful look..

I know, I need to take some pics. :p
The wood was a little dry when I got it--the previous owner wasn't sure what to put on it. I looked up lacewood, and applied the recommended coat of linseed oil. It looks very nice now ;)

I know, I need to take some pics. :p
The wood was a little dry when I got it--the previous owner wasn't sure what to put on it. I looked up lacewood, and applied the recommended coat of linseed oil. It looks very nice now ;)

Is there a brand name on the wood fenders?

I'm comfortable with what I already have, and don't wish to buy another hub, especially since I plan to put the 1X in it. I do subscribe to the school of thought that the short spokes are less vulnerable.It's not the spokes which are the problem but the hub flange.

A hub under driving (or front disc braking) force, puts extra strain on the spokes and the hub flange may get ripped out. Cross lacing puts the strain on the flange more tangentially.

With such a small wheel and large hub the spoke angle at the rim is too acute for anything more than 1x.

Yeah, its not cheap. I spent $300 + shipping. However, I could justify it because I got the Curve for only $360 on Ebay. Yes, still a little more than the Mini, but when I got the Curve, the 2009 Mini was not out yet. (I really wanted the inside folding handle post).


Um.......and you guys are going to laugh at me, but I might actually sell it after all that. I haven't used it more than once or twice since I got the used Hon Solo. :innocent: Rhm, you can have your 19t ring back if I do.


So if anyone wants to make an offer....

Are you sticking with Hon Solo, or are you going to the dar....I mean, downtube side???

Oh geez, NOW you tell me, two weeks after I get a curve and new hub!! :roflmao2:

Actually I understand about selling it. Sometimes when I'm done with a project then it's time to move on. Thrill of the chase, and all that...

Never saw these posts ... sorry for the delay.

The seatpost rack on my Mini doesn't interfere with the fold, unless you count that the folded article is somewhat bigger.

It does count if you have to take the rack off -- quick release I assume -- and do something with it; i.e., carry it, throw it in a bag, whatever. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but my own experiments with commuting led to a position where having to carry anything else is a pain in @ss. And anything that slows down the folding process past say 15-30 seconds ends up being annoying glip-glop that I rather not deal with. Judging from some discussions with locals, I think that everyone came -- all of eight people ... so we are not talking about a large sample of people -- to the same conclusion with carrying stuff off the bike being a pain in the @ss but probably less sensitive to the folding time. Guess from their responses, the population median would be happy with something around 30-40 seconds.

I use a backpack. I don't think any folder is all that good at hauling stuff, since it would more likely than not interfere with the fold. Folders with suspension (it seems like that's almost all of them) can also be tricky to put aftermarket racks on. I think the Mini needs some mods to take a rack.

Does anyone ride a folding touring bike?

Assuming that you are talking about sub-20" wheel bikes, my experience with the Brompton and Merc was that it was excellent at carrying stuff. The best in the aforementioned class, IMO. If you were willing to slow down the fold, you could use the rear rack to carry enough stuff for a long weekend ... camping. EvilV has a few pictures on the Merc that I always thought was impressive.

For a multi-mode commute, I would not say that any small-wheel bike is great at carrying stuff since it is trying to arrive at an optimal compromise, but I always thought that the Brompton/Merc's front bag was the best because of enormous capacity, it could remain mounted on the bike while folded, was quickly removed/mounted, and was carried easily because of its handle.

I have never ridden a tikit nor a curve. The tikit looks like it would be a pretty good tourer. I think that with a rear top mounted bag and the front bag, the curve could probably carry a decent commuting load.

Anyway, I still like my Mini. It works for me since there are showers at work and our dress code is very casual. So I don't have to carry much.

With the bikes side by side (see Caaah's photo), there is very little difference. The wheel base is essentially the same; as is, my rear wheel is all the way forward in the dropout, so my wheel base is a little shorter than Caaah's; but I'm pretty sure the difference is entirely within the rear dropouts. With the front wheels side by side, the headsets are also perfectly aligned side by side; but the handlebar of the Curve is a couple inches farther forward. This difference comes from the angle built into the stem. (Curve +1).

Riding the bikes, my Mini seems stiffer, on comparison to the Curve which feels more flexy. That flexiness, as far as I could tell, comes (mostly?) from the stem. Sometimes, when pedaling vigorously, I thought the stem was even creaking a little. I don't like this flexiness, but it does not feel like a serious issue. It prevented me from comparing the stiffness of other features, such as frame and seat post. Curve, by the way, has a thicker seat post which would, in theory, be a little stiffer.

Interesting Rudi. This is somewhat relevant to the recent discussion. A couple of inches forward sounds pretty good to me if it doesn't compromise the fold. I wonder what type of quill stem the Curve uses and whether it is compatible with the Mini.

Thor? Can you answer this question?

It's not the spokes which are the problem but the hub flange.

A hub under driving (or front disc braking) force, puts extra strain on the spokes and the hub flange may get ripped out. Cross lacing puts the strain on the flange more tangentially.

With such a small wheel and large hub the spoke angle at the rim is too acute for anything more than 1x.

Alex just mentioned lacing an internal hub tikit wheel (ERTO 349) 2X after drilling the rim to change the angle of nipples. A courageous move in my opinion but from what I gather, he was more than happy with the results.

Personally, I would just stick with 1X.

Well, here you have it, the meeting of the minds, per se. I know Rhm is writing a longer review, so I'll keep mine short.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3077/2595364567_2c045ff894_b.jpg

They aren't that different. Really, the only thing I felt was that the cockpit is a smmmmmidgen smaller on the Mini. Mind you, for the price, though, the Mini is the better bargain. I don't think I could live with out my 8 speed hub, and that was a pricey upgrade.

Oh, and rhm definitely sold me on the shorter crank length. ;)

Nice looking bikes. The forward lean on the Dahon's steering column meant that I could actually ride the bike. I doubt I'd fit on the Downtube.

+1

I think the thicker seat post and forward handlepost on the Curve are very important advantages.

I said it on another thread if it weren't for the 8 speed hub on the Mini, you could never compare it with the Brompton or Curve SL. However, now that the SL is approaching 1K, the Mini looks more attractive.

Is there a brand name on the wood fenders?

Nah, they don't have any marking, and are just labeled "hand made lacewood" on the Dahon specs. However, I did come across this guy:

http://www.woodysfenders.com/store/

Makes mine look downright bland.

Are you sticking with Hon Solo, or are you going to the dar....I mean, downtube side???

Oh geez, NOW you tell me, two weeks after I get a curve and new hub!! :roflmao2:

Actually I understand about selling it. Sometimes when I'm done with a project then it's time to move on. Thrill of the chase, and all that...

I know :(

Actually, all that talking about it with you, and yet not having any motivation to ride it got me thinking. I'm not one of those people that really can subscribe to having different bikes for different purposes. The Hon Solo covers all the Curve's purposes, and the Curve doesn't offer any advantage (to me) other than the use of the Klickfix bags.

Funny, because I am so non-utilitarian with other stuff. Like coats, for example. :D There is a giant hulking form in my hallway that has enough layers of outerwear hanging from it to completely encase the coat tree underneath.

But, yes, sticking with the Hon Solo.

Jur, that is not the latest mini which does have the forward handlebar post