Utility Cycling - Rant: "Utility Bikes" get no respect?

I have a decent sized LSB 2 miles from my house but unfortunately they cater to "Spandex Weenies" only. I went in looking for an extended adjustable stem for my MTB to Utility conversion project and they tried to tell me they weren't avalable. I told them I could get one via the Internet and they said, "Yah, do that" :twitchy: . So much for supporting your local businesses! I did find another not-so-LBS 7 miles away that actually had one but not the right size so I ordered up one from them. When that came in I ordered up a Pyramid "North Road" alloy handlebar (which they never heard of) and a Pyramid Alloy double kickstand (which they had never seen) that should have come in last friday. They were busy wrenching on bikes and I kinda felt like they weren't all that interested in ordering stuff for me? I also kinda feel like ordering the parts through them might get them "educated" eventually? How have the rest of you made out with your LBSes?

It's prevalent attitude towards bikes in the states. One that, thankfully, is changing in many parts of the country. The market for a long time has been geared towards recreational cycling, ie. mountain, road racing and touring. Utility and Commuting are only now becoming "mainstream".

We're lucky to have a wide variety of shops here in Columbus. One just opened, Paradise Garage, that is really geared towards urban riding. A lot of Dutch/European style bikes for sale with racks and fenders, IGH, generator lights. Clothing lines carried in store designed for urban riding. Not much in the way of bike parts or accessories, yet. Seems they can order in though. We have a few other shops that seem to be at least friendly to it and at least one that is growing its inventory.

The LBS I use most often is the interwebs ;)

Despite a pretty high number of bike shops here in town, none really specialize in utility cycling in any tangible way. We have a store that focuses on mountain bikes, another that focuses on road bikes, one that seems to focus on triathlon bikes (and is nearly useless for even the most trivial accessories), and a couple that focus on comfort bikes and hybrids.

Having patronized all of them, I've found relatively similar levels of sales-whoring (sometimes not too bad, sometimes ridiculous) and a generally limited selection of in-stock items. Since they're just going to order from QBP or another big distributor the same as someone online, it's usually not going to get to me any faster, and generally won't be any cheaper due to markup and sales tax.

If I order online from a place out of state (I like Universal Cycles in Portland) I get the widget at a great price, pay no sales tax, and have only the shipping charge, which so long as I batch my orders I end up coming out ahead once the shipping charges is spread across a number of items.

With all that said, my new favorite place for everything bike related is our local bike co-op, Bici Centro. While I haven't ordered anything through them yet, I have seen they have one of those fat parts books so presumably I can get whatever I need. And they have an awesome selection of used parts. And.. most importantly, they love all kinds of bikes, especially useful ones that let people ride instead of drive.

So... is a local bike co-op an option? :)

Steve

So... is a local bike co-op an option? :)
I've seen folks post about them here but have never heard of one hereabouts. I'm not that far from Boston and have relatives there so I should see if there is one there? I wonder how one goes about starting one up :D ?

Since they're just going to order from QBP or another big distributor the same as someone online, it's usually not going to get to me any faster, and generally won't be any cheaper due to markup and sales tax.
I've been trying to order from a LBS just so they know that there is a demand for these parts...

I've been trying to order from a LBS just so they know that there is a demand for these parts...
I understand.. but if you are the only one ordering them, then they won't perceive that as much demand ;)

I went to the spandex weenie shop in my town - the same one that built up my current bike for me - and asked if they were interested in doing my Xtracycle conversion, and what it might cost. The reply was "Maybe if it was October... and snowing." It doesn't snow much here in Santa Barbara, and never in October.

So I instead went to the bike co-op, learned how to do the tricky-for-me stuff (derailer & brake adjustment), and ordered parts online. So the spandex weenie place is now A) out the Xtracycle job; B) out the parts sale; C) out future repair / replacement sales/service (since I'm now learning how to do ALL this stuff myself). I'm sure they don't mind the loss, and in all fairness they have provided great service & support on the bike they built & sold me.

But it does show that a for-profit shop has to focus on bread & butter, and currently not enough people are aware of utility cycling for it to work for them. Ergo, bike co-op... a perfect home for true bike wackjobs like us! :D

Steve

bicycles are part of the Sporting Goods Industry...
mostly anyways... that's how the "merchandise" of bicycles is categorized.

it just happens that bikes are actually a viable form of transport...
but here in America, where the country was born with steam, and diesel power...

the killer really is the "division within a Genre"
Utility, Cargo, Touring... just every day life on the bike... that alone would seem to break down any type of perceived barriers, but often in the world of Sporting Goods, there is of course...

The Sport
and with sport, of course comes Athletes.
....
and with that "goal oriented", "A" type personality... the ego that is fostered, which is traditionally the preferred mental operating system to be a successful athlete.

that is to say... in the American goes West kind of conquest.

so go figure huh? typical bike shops can often be just that... typical Pop Americana.

people are people... its ok...

at some point... i guess around $5/gal, even my brethren Sport Recreation Cyclists will think about picking up broccoli from the store on a bike...

then it begins... "oh... i can save money, maybe work less... if i ride a bike and pay zero or less on anything car-centric."

we are way far away, from any means of shifting from our Car Domain.

but in time... and for now... it is plausible.

Utility bikes get plenty of respect where I live. There are 2 fabulous (http://www.citybikes.coop/) shops (http://clevercycles.com/) within 2 miles of my house. Both are Xtracycle dealers. :)

I've educated one of my LBSs to the point they offered me a job! :D

(It's not a major bike shop - it's half ski/snowboard and half bikes, plus they do rentals. But it's 4 blocks from my house and is open late, so I go there for a lot of bits and pieces. Anyway, they don't do major repairs, just tune ups, which are well within my capabilities).

I have a decent sized LSB 2 miles from my house but unfortunately they cater to "Spandex Weenies" only. I went in looking for an extended adjustable stem for my MTB to Utility conversion project and they tried to tell me they weren't avalable. I told them I could get one via the Internet and they said, "Yah, do that" :twitchy: . So much for supporting your local businesses! I did find another not-so-LBS 7 miles away that actually had one but not the right size so I ordered up one from them. When that came in I ordered up a Pyramid "North Road" alloy handlebar (which they never heard of) and a Pyramid Alloy double kickstand (which they had never seen) that should have come in last friday. They were busy wrenching on bikes and I kinda felt like they weren't all that interested in ordering stuff for me? I also kinda feel like ordering the parts through them might get them "educated" eventually? How have the rest of you made out with your LBSes?

This i exactely how it is around here. Alot of bikeshops in the area (15 km in all directions), but you can not find anything that is not "stock". They are often "chain stores", they all sell the same items from the same supplyers depending on space available in the shop. In the winter all bikestuff apart from studded tyres is put away. You can find some employees with a good attitude, but it looks like they are only allowed to order from they wery slim catalouges, so it does not help much.

622-25 and 622-28 tires is impossible to find, long stem, Brooks seat (one shop sold me a titanium Flyer for £30, nobody wanted it, had been in the shop for years..) is the same.

I asked in a lot of shops about a mirror for mounting on the helmet. Nobody had that. One guy looked me straight in the face and said "nobody makes that". I said "Yes, they do" and the air went out of him. I sometimes want to ask them if they`we ewer been on the internet.

Opened a Shimanu 7 hub, found broken bearrings and some more problems. Put the thing in a plasticbag to show when ordering. The dude said he had newer opened one and looked innside (does not pay of course). They did get the parts for me.

I often find I leave the shop without the part I asked for and feeling I gave them something to think about. When an "old lady" can ask several times for things they can not give an answer to it makes some of them think, but not all..:D:D

I know how you guys feel. All the 'local' bike shops (if you consider 20 miles away local) here cater towards sports. So most everything they sell is sports related items. It pisses me off when I was looking to buy a new bike because it would costs me hundreds, on top of hundreds (if not thousands) I just spent, to get the bike I want.

I wouldnt mind spending $1800 for this bike: http://www.dutchbikeseattle.com/html/bikes/transport.html . In fact, if this company was local (or if it didnt cost $350 to ship the bike) I wouldnt even bother with a used bike and just save up my money for the bike I just linked. It haves everything I need in a bike. If I go to a LBS, the closet equivelent bike is already $1300; but then I have to buy the saddle, fender, lights, handle bars, and so on.

So poo on LBS!

There's a good number of area bike shops here, but, again, they all seem to specialize, not necessarily by function/application, but often by brand. I've been thinking of getting a Long Haul Trucker. One local chain lists Surly among their available brands, but when I went in and asked, they said they only do special orders. I'd love to support my local shop, but I can do orders. They need to provide something else. I need a LBS for fitting and test riding, both of which become moot if you have to buy the bike first.

I did/do like my local bike shop because they have the tools and expertise to do some things that I can't do at home because I don't have tools or room or expertise, but lately I've been working with a local bike shop, and I think between most of the people there, I can muster up the expertise, and they've already got the tools. I like the idea of a local bike shop, but the reality is that they don't seem to be offering anything I can't get elsewhere for less cost and less hassle. I use them for small items and things I need right now, like tubes, patch kits, and common accessories. I'd use them for more, but I guess if it was my business they were after, they'd stock the stuff I'm interested in.

There is supposed to be a new shop in "near-by" (20-30 miles, I think) Carrboro that specializes in utility/commuting cycling. They're supposed to have Xtracycles and some folders, and I hope to check them out soon, but even if they're a good shop, they're not quite local. But if they do well, they may start a trend.

I have a decent sized LSB 2 miles from my house but unfortunately they cater to "Spandex Weenies" only.

I can see why you GET no respect when you GIVE no respect. :rolleyes:

... Brad

:lol:
I can see why you GET no respect when you GIVE no respect. :rolleyes:
Sorry, didn't think any of them would wander in here :D . Anybody know where you can buy spandex repellant :lol: ?

I wouldnt mind spending $1800 for this bike: http://www.dutchbikeseattle.com/html/bikes/transport.html . In fact, if this company was local (or if it didnt cost $350 to ship the bike) I wouldnt even bother with a used bike [...]
Fly out and ride it back! :D

I wouldnt mind spending $1800 for this bike: http://www.dutchbikeseattle.com/html/bikes/transport.html . In fact, if this company was local (or if it didnt cost $350 to ship the bike) I wouldnt even bother with a used bike and just save up my money for the bike I just linked. It haves everything I need in a bike. If I go to a LBS, the closet equivelent bike is already $1300; but then I have to buy the saddle, fender, lights, handle bars, and so on.

Went to look in the dumpster today. Eight bikes standing on the side of it, waiting to be collected:eek:. One was a womans (deep step-trough) "dutch bike", fully equipped; Basket in front, light, fenders, broad sprung seat (not Brooks). Three speed, white walled tyres. Colour Burgundy with gold lettering. Mint condition on paint, some light surface rust on chrome (bars, stem) and chain /small chain for gearhub. What is wrong with peopel? At least they did not put it in the dumpster, but if not collected within few days it goes in

No pix at the moment. Sorry, this is off topic for the tread but I just had too..

but if not collected within few days it goes in
You are going to rescue it, right? :twitchy:

Sorry, this is off topic for the tread but I just had too...Sounds on-topic to me, can't get much more disrespectful to a utility bike than that! So, where do yous guys find these magic dumpsters :lol: ?

You are going to rescue it, right? :twitchy:
Sounds on-topic to me, can't get much more disrespectful to a utility bike than that! So, where do yous guys find these magic dumpsters :lol: ?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=355403

There is bicycle store here in Flagstaff called biketrailershop (biketrailershop.com) and there motto is "HAUL MORE = RIDE MORE = DRIVE LESS". Seems like they specialized in all things cargo.

Haven't been in but we won a prize from them during bike to work week, so I may have to stop in when I get some $$$.

You are going to rescue it, right? :twitchy:
Sounds on-topic to me, can't get much more disrespectful to a utility bike than that! So, where do yous guys find these magic dumpsters :lol: ?

I did rescue. My friend is "some years" older than me and she said she need to start looking for a "step trough" for her older days.

This is on a different continent from you. Two good dumpsters near by ( 5 and 15 km from here). Two more if i would drive a bit longer (time and fuel..).

wrong thread, sorry

I've seen folks post about them here but have never heard of one hereabouts. I'm not that far from Boston and have relatives there so I should see if there is one there? I wonder how one goes about starting one up :D ?

Two awesome co-ops in the Boston area:

http://www.bikesnotbombs.org/

http://broadwaybicycleschool.com/

There's two LBSs local to me (within 20 mi) that are happy to order whatever strange part I can come up with as long as they can get it through their established distributors. One of them will also special order from vendors they don't usually deal with, but I've known the owner for more than 20 years so I don't know if this is common practice with him. For small stuff, I pay retail, but for the bigger stuff, he'll usually cut me a deal that is close enough to online pricing plus shipping to make it worth my while.

There's another that actually does stock some utility stuff, in a fantastic jumble of a store that would probably turn off snobbier cyclists immediately.

But the closest store to me is pretty much performance road/mtn oriented and not too interested in special ordering strange parts, with very limited useful inventory on hand. Same with the sports-store-that-also-sells-bikes down the road.

So for the basics, like brake pads, cables, generic housing, etc., the not so good stores are 7-8 mi from home; the better ones are 15-20 miles away.

The Boston co-ops I mentioned above are about 1.5hrs away by car, and so is Harris Cyclery. Never been there, but Peter White Cycles wouldn't be too far a trip, either.

Guess I'm lucky--there are enough stores within reasonable distance that actually sell or will special order parts, and just a car or train/bus ride away are world-class bicycle retailers and co-ops.

hahahahaha!!! my lbs is harris cyclery in west newton, ma (home of the late and truly great sheldon brown) so utility bikes get mad respect there!!!!!! go me!!!!:D:D:D

In contrast to LBSs with no commuter gear, I found a store while we were on vacation that was almost exclusively devoted to utility and commuter stuff--racks and bags, kid seats, bells and horns, kickstands, lights and reflectors, fenders and chainguards. I was seriously taken aback--not a carbon fiber, titanium, or anodized bit in sight, nor any uber-performance bike of any kind. What drew us into the store in the first place was all the Dutch style utility bikes out in front of the store, with price tags ranging from about $300-600.

Of course this was in Amsterdam...

Mine ordered an Xtracycle for me - not through QBP but from Xtracycle themselves. And gave me discounts and a huge show of interest towards the project. Of course, all but the frame (a used one), wheels and tires were bought there. All of it. And they built it.

The LBS I use most often is the interwebs ;)

Despite a pretty high number of bike shops here in town, none really specialize in utility cycling in any tangible way.

I would be remiss if I didn't correct this statement to note that Commuter Bicycles (http://commuterbicycles.com/), while not really qualifying as a "retail shop" since it's by appointment only, actually does specialize nearly entirely in utility-oriented bikes. I re-read what I'd written and felt a pang of guilt because I was unfairly lumping Eric's operation in with the other shops in town.

Anyways, Eric is the local Xtracycle guru and Breezer dealer and is a really nice guy. I know because we bought my wife's Breezer from him :D So my bad for leaving him out, but since his operation is so completely different than everything else in town, it didn't even come into the same mental space. Which, I guess, is kind of a compliment :)

Steve

Although my LBS primarily caters to sport cycling--either road or mountain--(and I can hardly blame them, they are in it to make money and utility cycling is not big here) they are more than happy to order anything I ask for, and the mechanic there is quite eagerly waiting for me to accumulate the shekels to order my Big Dummy.

My LBS ordered in a Big Dummy for me and helped me get a bunch of the parts I put on it. They stocked a Ute at one point. They aren't big into cargo bikes, but honestly they stock what people want - MTBs and road bikes.

I try and buy local for as much stuff as I can, but I do buy online for specialty items or things that are uber cheap.

When I get good service for my bikes I'll tip the bike mechanics and/or bring them in icy cold beers at 4pm. A small price to pay for getting priority service when I need it!

They aren't big into cargo bikes, but honestly they stock what people want - MTBs and road bikes.

Exactly; they're in business to make money, and if they don't stock what customers want they won't be in business for long. It would be nice if there were more demand for transportational cycling, but there isn't yet around here. I think it is coming, though; lots of people who saw me on TV or in the paper on my ride with the gov. have asked me about it.

Of course this was in Amsterdam...

There you go.

I have a decent sized LSB 2 miles from my house but unfortunately they cater to "Spandex Weenies" only. ... How have the rest of you made out with your LBSes?
First off--it's not possible for a shop to stock everything for bikes now, most can't even carry everything for one kind of biking (road, MTB, utility, touring, recumbent, folding, ect). If you already know that the item you want is available online, then you know what you need and where to get it cheaper than they can probably sell it anyway.

Secondly--there is the "employee problem" that most shops have. The owners of the shops may be generalists interested in any kind of margin they can make, but the employee positions usually don't pay much. The only people who will take these jobs are people who are willing to accept the lower pay for being able to use an employee discount on biking gear, and that's often younger males into racing, either road or MTB. These guys are very typically not knowledgeable or interested in anything but what they already ride, and it shows in their salesmanship skills.

Shops have to put stuff on their floors that they know will move quickly, and they're mainly interested in moving what's on their floors. The only advantage they can usually offer is that the instant gratification of buying merchandise and walking out the door with it, but if local shops aren't responsive then there's nothing wrong with shopping online instead. After all, it was the manufacturer who decided to allow online sales in the first place--they didn't have to do that, and there are a few that don't.
~

Secondly--there is the "employee problem" that most shops have. .... often younger males into racing, either road or MTB. These guys are very typically not knowledgeable or interested in anything but what they already ride, and it shows in their salesmanship skills.

Like the two little snots who rolled their eyes at me and told me NOBODY rides STEEL anymore!! Gee, the folks at Waterford, rivendell, and oh look, Colnago, would all be very surprised ot hear this...

I am not sure how much I would blame most LBSs. Until I found these forums I had never seen a Utility bike like an Xtracycle. Had they had something like it I might have bought it. But they did offer trailers and I think for many people that works just about as well. It just seems as if people that are interested in Utility bikes are a bit more independent than other Cyclists. If the biking community knows so little about utility bikes you can imagine that very few of them ask the LBS about them.

However I do agree that the biking community seems to have segregated itself from the rest of society with its use of spandex. I know they are supposed to be comfortable and less restricting but if we are honest in most cases cyclists wearing spandex make golfers look rather conservative. However you have to admit they can be seen and with so many cars sharing the road with you being seen is a good thing.

Like the two little snots who rolled their eyes at me and told me NOBODY rides STEEL anymore!! Gee, the folks at Waterford, rivendell, and oh look, Colnago, would all be very surprised ot hear this...

Truly the ignorance of youth to claim no one rides steel.

My LBS gets most of it's sales from high-end road and mountain bikes, as those who ride for transportation and utility here are as rare as hen's teeth. But the guys at the shop are always interested in the commuter bikes of my brother and I, and they are always more than happy to order anything we need (and they can usually get most of those things). I think all of them ride to work at least part of the time, and when they open their new shop they plan to have a specific section dedicated to commuting. So, despite being a very bike-unfriendly town, I'm fortunate to have a very helpful LBS.

The two bike shops around here are great. One of them caters to the triathletes and competitive types; the other is for almost anyone else. Both have good selections and will try their hardest to help any potential customer. At either one, if I mention what I need, they'll go out of their way to try to help me find it. Often, they'll look for creative solutions for me. This seems to be the case at most of the bike shops in the region.

If you find your bike shop is catering to the Spandex crowd or the hardcore mountain bikers, see if you can find a nearby shop friendly to touring cyclists. Many of the needs of touring cyclists in terms of bike design and accessories are similar to the needs of utility cyclists.

the lbs here rarely has what i'm looking for, but will always order me what i ask for. if they have to add on a few duckets to make it worth their time i won't complain, it's nice to have them 2 blocks away.

with all that said i still get the impression that my business is an inconvenience for them.

Adapt or die. The shops that open their eyes & start being more accepting of utility cycling will flourish. The ones that don't risk withering.

Adapt or die. The shops that open their eyes & start being more accepting of utility cycling will flourish. The ones that don't risk withering.

Around here it seems to be the reverse; the two LBS's are oriented towards sport cycling (mountan and road) because that's what their customers want. They aren't hostile to utility cycling, and and are more than happy to make either special orders or modifications, but if they were to stock bakfiesten and the like there would be hardly any demand.

Do I think and hope that this will change? Yes. Soon? I don't think so.

Elkhound - Nice to see a fellow mountaineer out there. That's the thing about utility bikes, biking, and bikers - not very glamorous, but very cost-effective, with the term "utility" being operative here. There's not a whole lot of money to be made in the field, at least at present.

I've said elsewhere, and I say it again: If this country's manufacturers built, and the shops stocked, a decent, reasonably-priced, rugged, low-maintenance bike, built for comfort, not speed, and without the bells and whistles and NASA engineered materials and technologies, if they built and stocked these useful bikes, the domestic bike industry would be re-born, and biking would move from a sport to a viable transportation alternative.

The LBS I use most often is the interwebs ;)

...

If I order online from a place out of state (I like Universal Cycles in Portland) ...

The best solution is to live 3 miles from Universal, and pickup for free! :love:

I guess this isn't typical in most places, but where I live, even those bike shops that are heavily into MTB's and road cycling will bend over backwards to help utility cyclists. Even when I was riding a fairly dorky hybrid, people at just about any LBS around here were willing, even eager to help out. The attitude seems to be, if it's a bike, it's cool. There are one or two shops that sell only $5,000-$10,000 road bikes, and who will look at you funny if you're not into Lycra, but they tend to stand out in their utter uselessness. (Actually, even those places, if you walk in and ask for 700 x 35 tubes, they'll have them in stock, though you will have to endure condescension from people who have no reason to be so snobby.)

The best solution is to live 3 miles from Universal, and pickup for free! :love:

+1 :thumb:

The LBS where I work is really a "do everything possible for the customer, even if all they need is a seatpost clamp" kind of shop. We're so incredibly busy with sales and repairs (highest volume, smallest floorspace of the 6 shops in the company) that I'm sure a few people get the feeling that we don't care.

I think the bigger problem is when people come in and say "oh, I'm just looking" but have a question that they came in to ask then wait around for someone to come to them again check if they have a question. Sorry, but if everyone is engaged with a customer, and you said "just looking around" without bothering to answer my actual greeting of "good morning" I'm probably not going to ask you if you need something.

If I have a wheel, new tube, and tire levers in my hand, I'm probably busy, but go ahead and ask your question anyway, the person that isn't doing something right now who you really should be asking will be asked to do it and you'll just have to explain yourself again.

The spandex crew typically (certainly not all of them) know their stuff and go right for it. From a business standpoint, they are often the highest sales margin and least time consuming sales. A $4,000 Cervelo w/ $1,000 in accessories that takes an hour from start to finish is a lot nicer of a sale than 10 $400 entry level hybrids with $100 in accessories that also take an hour each. Same margin, 7 or more less man-hours.

So ultimately: if you're not happy with your LBS, find one that is more willing to take your money. If they are all giving you guff, consider that you're probably not bothering them but even non-commission employees would prefer to work on big issues instead of hunting in vain for a custom part from a company they never heard of.

wow.. sorry for the rant. Seems I got me a little 2am stress.

Cheers :)