Fifty Plus (50+) - Helmet or no helmet?

What one Brit has to say:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/17/do1701.xml

I have also brooded on the results of some study in Australia, which showed that making bike helmets compulsory deterred so many people from cycling that there was a rise in obesity - and more people ended up dying of heart attacks than were saved by the head-gear.

Studies here in Oz have showed no such thing, anywhere except in the minds and perceptions of buffoons who have written trite media comments about them! The 'best' that the studies conducted here have demonstrated is the fact that the available data is inadequate and insufficient to draw conclusions from. That, and the fact that the point and purpose of cycling helmets is NOT all about saving people's lives!


I can well remember the time when compulsory wearing of helmets on cycles was first introduced here in Oz. I had a 'Dove' road bike at the time, and was using it as a commute in town. Yep, I was one of those drongoes who were so full up of their own sense of self-importance that they failed to see wood for the trees. I resisted, and didn't want people telling me what to do or not do.


How stupid I was back then, when I look back and reflect!

I wouldn't consider jumping on a bike without helmet on head nowadays. Matter of fact I'd think it'd be downright disgustingly inconsiderate of me to do so. Sure, if I'm in a serious collision I'm very likely gonna end up dead, considering I'm on a bike and vulnerable. That's risk you take, heading off on a bike. But it's not that I wear a helmet for.

Two simple facts:

That bike has two rather skinny wheels.
My skull has some rather vulnerable spots on it, just like anyone else's.



It doesn't matter how good or how careful I am. Likelihood is that I'm gonna come off that bike at some point in time, and when I do so it's more likely than not that my head is gonna hit the deck. A kerb edge or a sharp rock or whatever else is all it takes for what might be a bump and an egg on the scone to turn into me being a lifelong vegetable, and a burden on my family. Bugger that. Far as I'm concerned only a dickhead would want to wish that upon the people they love, and I'm damned glad that I stopped being a dickhead. My helmet doesn't guarantee me protection against it, of course, but it certainly swings the odds a helluva lot further my way.


The 'anti-helmet' campaign is chock-full of misinformation from wrongly interpreted 'studies', and self-centrad babblings about people's 'rights'.

Bugger the rights! How about the responsibilities, huh?




My opinion. If anybody disagrees with it and holds different opinion I won't think badly of them. I'll simply continue on believing that they are deluding themselves! :D

My choice: wear a helmet . . . yup, have crashed and cracked one; easy/cheap to replace helmet!

My choice: wear a helmet . . . yup, have crashed and cracked one; easy/cheap to replace helmet!

+1

My choice: wear a helmet . . . yup, have crashed and cracked one; easy/cheap to replace helmet!


+2

I crashed without one in 1987 and got a nasty concussion. I think a helmet would have helped. I always wear one now, and have crashed and broken two of them.

Catweazle, define "drongoes" please.

Catweazle, define "drongoes" please.

It's a fairly general purpose derogatory comment. Can be used to mean anything along the lines of:

jerk, loser, fool, galah, w.a.n.k.e.r. etc etc etc...


Bill Wannan, in "Australian Folklore", claims that the term originated from the name of an early 20th Century racehorse called Drongo, which was a really poor runner, and the term was initially used by transferrence to describe people who were dull-witted or clumsy.

I've gone through a bunch of helmets since a girlfriend gave me a Bell Biker in 1976. Haven't "used" one,yet, but that's OK.

Just thinking:
Wearing a helmet is safer. End of argument.
Biking on trails is safer then on roads.
Not biking is safer then biking.
Motor biking is more dangerous then cycling. They often do not wear helmets in WI and IL.
I am surprised that we are not asked to wear helmets in cars yet or walking around. You may fall someday, down the stairs or while drunk.

I still remember the days when I didn't wear one and other cyclist would point at their helmets as they passed and I would often flip them off:notamused:. I was young then, but now I'm seasoned (not old).

After decades of being a militant pro helmet, pro seatbelt user I seem to be undergoing a change of heart. I am begining to see that a persons choice to do or do not has considerable value.

On the other hand, I have no problem with the insurance companies of the world not passing the results of those choices on to the rest of us.

I am among the users of helmets and belts by choice. I no longer feel like I have any real input into what others choose to do.........as long as their choice has no input into my life.

It's a fairly general purpose derogatory comment. Can be used to mean anything along the lines of:

jerk, loser, fool, galah, w.a.n.k.e.r. etc etc etc...


Bill Wannan, in "Australian Folklore", claims that the term originated from the name of an early 20th Century racehorse called Drongo, which was a really poor runner, and the term was initially used by transferrence to describe people who were dull-witted or clumsy.

Thanks! A man from England once said on here, "We're two countries separated by a common language".

After decades of being a militant pro helmet, pro seatbelt user I seem to be undergoing a change of heart. I am begining to see that a persons choice to do or do not has considerable value.

On the other hand, I have no problem with the insurance companies of the world not passing the results of those choices on to the rest of us.

I am among the users of helmets and belts by choice. I no longer feel like I have any real input into what others choose to do.........as long as their choice has no input into my life. Spot-on post.

I think my position is pretty mainstream among serious cyclists -- I choose to wear a helmet, but I oppose mandatory helmet laws for adults.

I always wear a helmet. I have shattered a helmet in a crash. I would rather shatter the helmet than my skull. As to making wearing a helmet mandatory, I don't have a really strong position on it.

I wore one during the Five Boroughs ride in NYC on May 4th. I don't wear a collar or a robe, so I don't preach or judge. Actually, unless I bump into a post like this, I don't give hemets any thought either pro or con.

Helmets for bicycling and rock climbing! :thumb:

I can't conceive of not wearing a helmet. I have read that gravity alone can crack a skull from the sitting position on a bike at zero forward speed. Many years ago I was just getting going on my road bike and crossing a railroad rail. I was probably doing two miles an hour. For some reason, the bike went out from under me and my head impacted the rail. The impact was at the very top of the head (the point?)

I was wearing a helmet, but almost passed out.

When I motorcycled it was a full-face helmet.

Al

What one Brit has to say:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/06/17/do1701.xml

Seems like he's using the helmet as a symbol really. A symbol of safety and people's contradictory attitudes toward it. People want the government to force people to be safe, but they don't want government forcing THEM to be safe. ;)

Same with protection against terrorism, vs preserving our rights.

Seems like he's using the helmet as a symbol really. A symbol of safety and people's contradictory attitudes toward it. People want the government to force people to be safe, but they don't want government forcing THEM to be safe. ;)

Same with protection against terrorism, vs preserving our rights.

Boris has a problem. As you can see-he is not built for exercise but at least he is setting an example by getting on a bike.

When I started riding- I got a helmet but it was months before it was second nature to "Always" wear the helmet. I'll give him a bit of Leaway at present as he is new in the job of Mayor of London. Whether I'll give him leaway on other Mayoral duties- I reserve judgement.

I wear a helmet every time I ride unless I forget it. It's just a habit I have and I personally don't have anything against it in terms of comfort or style. So why not?

People should wear a helmet or not depending on their personal preference.

The problem is that people think bicycle riding is dangerous and requires a helmet. It is NOT. I personally don't feel it's dangerous enough to warrant a helmet any more than driving a car or being a pedestrian. I think the importance of helmets is WAY overblown, and is cloaking bicycling in a mystique of danger that discourages parents from allowing their kids to just get on a bike and ride, discourages people from commuting on city streets and highways, and discourages people from riding who don't want their hair to be messed up by the helmet (which I think is perfectly legitmate concern and not vain).

On top of all that, many, many people wear their helmet improperly and greatly reduce it's effectiveness. I know of a person who literally fell off a bike (hit a curb or pot hole or was just clumsy - I don't know, except it didn't involve a car) and hit his forehead and almost died. He was wearing a helmet cocked back exposing his forehead as many / most are worn.

You might want to read this British Medical Journal article:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582

Found it on Dave Moulton's blog.

... People want the government to force people to be safe, but they don't want government forcing THEM to be safe. ...

Most of us do not want a nanny state mandating self-protection, but we do see a proper role for a daddy state which attempts to prevent others from doing us harm. This is more about tradeoffs and optimization than about some deeply-rooted inherent conflict.

I always wear one on the street or serious mountain biking. Often don't if riding a MUP in hot weather. Chances of crashing are remote, and helmet is much hotter than a baseball cap. Heat stroke is more likely than a crash.

I always wear one on the street or serious mountain biking. Often don't if riding a MUP in hot weather. Chances of crashing are remote, and helmet is much hotter than a baseball cap. Heat stroke is more likely than a crash.

The modern, well designed bike helmet will be much cooler than a baseball cap I would venture; having worn both but not on a bike. In 95 deg heat with Gulf Coast humidity, I more often than not don't take it off even on a break.

My present mountain bike helmet, the Gyro Hex is the best I've had for ventallation at the lower average speeds of mountain biking. It's relatively low price @ $90 and typically discounted in the $40's. It literally scoops in the air.

Al

I always wear one on the street or serious mountain biking. Often don't if riding a MUP in hot weather. Chances of crashing are remote, and helmet is much hotter than a baseball cap. Heat stroke is more likely than a crash.

As another posted, modern helmets are designed to be much cooler.

Please rethink not wearing one on the MUP. I was riding with an experienced rider last year on a local trail when he caught a stick in his front wheel, flew over the handlebars and did a face plant on the trail. His helmet saved him from serious head injuries. He still suffered a broken tooth, cut lip and some road rash. It happened so quickly. The same can happen with a small animal darting onto the trail.

Sometimes I find the MUP more dangerous than the road :)

You might want to read this British Medical Journal article:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582

Found it on Dave Moulton's blog.

Sorry, but this article is all but incomprehensible.

It depends on the sort of riding.

I will go out on a sunny afternoon and cruise around without a helmet. But. I tend to ride very conservatively when riding without a helmet.

If riding to work in traffic, trying to make time, I ride with a helmet. I tend to push harder to reduce the time it takes to get there, in effect, taking risks I don't take when running errands or just dorking around on the bike. If my commute was shorter I'd probably just dork along.

There is some validity to the claim that people ride differently depending on whether or not they are wearing a helmet IMO. I can see it in my own behavior. And it's not entirely conscious, on my part, even though I am aware of the effect.

Now, you can put it down to poor impulse control, bad riding, stupidity, or whatever, but; there is a noticeable difference.

As far as wearing a helmet to avoid reaching my expiration date prematurely because of the odd tip over: not so much. While it certainly is a valid concern; it's just not something on my mind. I don't ride around in fear of it. I see riders out there all the time who do ride like that, like they are one step away from instant death. Well, yeah. Welcome to the World. Those sorts of riders are at much greater risk with or without a helmet IMO. There are people in this world who could be convinced to wear a helmet to guard against meteorite strike and some of them are riding bikes.

Anyway, wearing a bicycle helmet is a prudent thing to do. Just don't put too much faith in it. How you ride is much more important, from a safety aspect, than what you wear on your head whether it be a helmet, a baseball cap, or tinfoil. IMO.

It depends on the sort of riding.

I will go out on a sunny afternoon and cruise around without a helmet. But. I tend to ride very conservatively when riding without a helmet.

If riding to work in traffic, trying to make time, I ride with a helmet. I tend to push harder to reduce the time it takes to get there, in effect, taking risks I don't take when running errands or just dorking around on the bike. If my commute was shorter I'd probably just dork along.

There is some validity to the claim that people ride differently depending on whether or not they are wearing a helmet IMO. I can see it in my own behavior. And it's not entirely conscious, on my part, even though I am aware of the effect.

Now, you can put it down to poor impulse control, bad riding, stupidity, or whatever, but; there is a noticeable difference.

As far as wearing a helmet to avoid reaching my expiration date prematurely because of the odd tip over: not so much. While it certainly is a valid concern; it's just not something on my mind. I don't ride around in fear of it. I see riders out there all the time who do ride like that, like they are one step away from instant death. Well, yeah. Welcome to the World. Those sorts of riders are at much greater risk with or without a helmet IMO. There are people in this world who could be convinced to wear a helmet to guard against meteorite strike and some of them are riding bikes.

Anyway, wearing a bicycle helmet is a prudent thing to do. Just don't put too much faith in it. How you ride is much more important, from a safety aspect, than what you wear on your head whether it be a helmet, a baseball cap, or tinfoil. IMO.

Not having that skid lid on my head is the best reminder of why I need to always ride safely and not take stupid chances. It's worked quite well over the 40 some years since I started riding a bike in the street, and 35 commuting to school or work.

OK, fine, it could be the tin foil hat too. :D

I thought it was the wig. :lol:

Helmet is always attached to head when on bike. Too many crashes over the years, although I've trashed a helmet.

Having a wife that works for a major hospital in the Cleveland area--and having a good friend who is a flight nurse on a LifeFlight helicopter---I have countless stories---"..so sad---if only they had worn a helmet."

Anyway, I have worn mine all of the time while on top of a two-wheeldmachine---putting one on is a habit---I simply do not get on a bike without a helmet.

Tim C.

damn I love you Aussies! (and I do reluctantly agree that wearing a helmet is a good idea)

I can count on more than one hand- the number of helmets I have broken through accidents on the bike. Most of them may have been offroad- but one incident on the road springs to mind- Frosty morning and Black ice. When I went down the helmet hit hard but no damage to clothing or limbs or bike. Couple of miles further on and I realised I had a headache. Stopped to readjust the helmet straps as they had obviously got moved in the fall. Took the helmet off and it was in two pieces.

Offroad and I have cracked helmets not just by falling- Hit a low branch hard enough and besides the shortened neck- helmet time again.

And then again- I change helmets every 2 years or so- The number of small knocks I put into them means that they need replacing periodically.

Dear moderators: please move this thread to A&S immediately. Or the B&D forum. Or maybe S&M. Anywhere but here.

Besides, I'm bored at work :popcorn:

Dear moderators: please move this thread to A&S immediately. Or the B&D forum. Or maybe S&M. Anywhere but here.

Besides, I'm bored at work :popcorn:

What's it take to get this guy banned? :roflmao2:

As much as I detest wearing a helmet, especially here in Houston with our humidity and summer heat, I say wearing a helmet is best, regardless. I've only been cycling again for three months after a 15 year hiatus. Last night I did my first organized ride since the MS150 in '93. It was the first annual HPD, Houston Police Department, Moonlight Classic. They shut down Memorial Drive from downtown to Shepherd Drive, a two and a half mile stretch with three lanes each way, from 10 to midnight and let us crank away. On the return trip there was a nasty, wide, pavement joint parallel to your wheels. It was just over the top of a rise and easy to miss until your were right at it. A young woman twenty yards in front of me caught it and wiped out really bad. In fact, so many riders crashed at the same spot that they finally put cones and flares out to warn riders and prevent further accidents. Fortunately, the woman only sustained minor injury, but I'm sure she would have sustained more serious injury if she hadn't been wearing a helmet. It's seeing things like that firsthand that makes me put a helmet on before I take a spin.

What's it take to get this guy banned? :roflmao2:

Dear moderators, while you're at it. Perhaps you should move all threads initiated by DG over to the Foo section where they belong :roflmao2: :roflmao2: :roflmao2: :roflmao2: ;) :lol:

Leaving all the studies and statistics aside, if you do happen to fall on your head, which would you rather crack, your skull or a helmet?

I don't see much rational about the helmet debate.

Helmets get tested with rigid "heads" not skulls. The foam ends up substantially harder than is probably reasonable. Tends to shatter too fast.

Helmets can only provide direct impact protection up to a certain level of force. That's an important range, but just a range. No difference past that, no impact protection need under that. It's the range we probably most likely experience, but it's still a range.

Helmets probably do make people ride faster. They make me ride faster down hills and corner harder, even though I know the protection is an illusion at the speeds I'm going.

Helmets help greatly in preventing nasty scalp injuries.

Helmets create a larger radius to the head, making brain and neck rotational injuries more likely or worse.

On balance, they may well be a wash. Cycling is pretty dang safe anyway. I'm all in favor of choice. I ride my fast bikes with helmet on. I commute without when I'm poking along on an upright bike lit up like a Christmas tree.

Ahhh, the old helmet debate. At least in A&S we get some actual statistics to go with the anecdotal evidence. Since the statistics posted in previous arguments have shown that in North America the single biggest cause of fatal head trauma is motor vehicle accidents, can I assume that the most vocal proponents in this thread of always wearing a bike helmet are strapping on that NASCAR approved racing helmet every time the even drive around the block in their motor vehicle? Consistency in behavior will either solidy your view, or discount it.

Have to post another reply. In our Cul-de-Sac we have around 8 kids that are always out on their bikes. I know because every couple of days I have one of the kids ring the door bell and "Can you look at my bike because I just broke it"

This evening was different. Suddenly had a kid screaming right outside my door. Rushed out and there was the youngest lying on the sidewalk with blood on her knees- hands and face. She caught the kerb and came off. She is grazed to hell but it was the head damage that got me. The scalp was down to the bone. Her parents got her off to A&E and she is fine but that scalp wound is going to take time to heal.

We keep on about us wearing helmets- but even the kids playing on their bikes in the road can do themselves a lot of damage. I know they bounce quite well- but if this girl had been wearing a helmet- It would have saved her some scarring that is going to be around for a few years.

Not having that skid lid on my head

I actually saw a fellow wearing a Skid Lid brand helmet yesterday. I hadn't seen one of those for decades. He was wearing knickers too. We had stopped for a potty break and there was no catching up to talk with him because he was too darn fast.

To each his/her own - but two weeks ago I took a spill, separated my shoulder and cracked the helmet in 2 places. Glad to repport the bike was OK.
Got a new helmet for Fathers Day - I won't leave home without it.

Ahhh, the old helmet debate. At least in A&S we get some actual statistics to go with the anecdotal evidence.....

I've participated in a few of those, in A&S and elsewhere, and can attest to the fact that the 'statistics' thrown about there are about as reliable as the claim about supposed 'findings' in Australia mentioned in the article linked in topic post :P

I'm pretty big on personal freedoms. If a person doesn't want to take precautions for their personal safety, then fine. Darwinism at work.

HOWEVER... if a person doesn't want to take safety precautions and lives with me in a country that has socialized healthcare, then screw his liberties. I don't want MY taxdollars paying for some idiot's stupid mistakes. I want him heavily fined so that at least some of the inevitable healthcare burden can be taken on by him.

I'm pretty big on personal freedoms. If a person doesn't want to take precautions for their personal safety, then fine. Darwinism at work.

HOWEVER... if a person doesn't want to take safety precautions and lives with me in a country that has socialized healthcare, then screw his liberties. I don't want MY taxdollars paying for some idiot's stupid mistakes. I want him heavily fined so that at least some of the inevitable healthcare burden can be taken on by him.

OK fine...screw you too. I'll put my safety record of the last 40+ years, including over 30 years of commuting in traffic, up against yours anytime. Then YOU can pay for MY insurance, since your incompetence on a bike has caused MY insurance rates to go up.

Thanks for providing an example of a rude, ignorant, ill-mannered post that is more inevitable in a helmet thread than the chances of me being some healthcare burden. :rolleyes:

Doesn't matter how skillfull and careful your riding style is or where you ride or how fast you ride; all of us on bikes are at risk for head injury/brain injury. Helmets lower your risk. Period.

Doesn't matter how skillfull and careful your riding style is or where you ride or how fast you ride; all of us on bikes are at risk for head injury/brain injury. Helmets lower your risk. Period.

Very tiny risk and nothing to be concerned about. You very likely have many more riskier situations every day and don't think twice about it.

I'm pretty big on personal freedoms. If a person doesn't want to take precautions for their personal safety, then fine. Darwinism at work.

HOWEVER... if a person doesn't want to take safety precautions and lives with me in a country that has socialized healthcare, then screw his liberties. I don't want MY taxdollars paying for some idiot's stupid mistakes. I want him heavily fined so that at least some of the inevitable healthcare burden can be taken on by him.

This is just such a tired and poorly thought out point of view. Where do you draw the line at dictating behavioral mandates in the name of "public cost"? Believe me there are many, many more significant costs to any (private or public) health care system than bicycle helmets. Have you, for example, looked for any data about the health effects of lack of exercise.... and the decrease in bicycle riding (and exercise) caused by the general perception that it is a dangerous activity and in need of head protection?

Of course there is a balance between freedom and social responsibility, but my bias (not absolutely of course) is towards freedom and accept that there are costs to society, including health care costs. Plus, I don't think the effects of lack of helmet use are at all meaningful in the big picture.

Very tiny risk and nothing to be concerned about. You very likely have many more riskier situations every day and don't think twice about it.

Mixing it up on a bike in traffic is probably the riskiest behavior I engage in. I wear a helmet to lower the risk of head injury/brain injury, which can be fatal. You say you wear a helmet - why?

Doesn't matter how skillfull and careful your riding style is or where you ride or how fast you ride; all of us on bikes are at risk for head injury/brain injury. Helmets lower your risk. Period.

No, helmets lower your risk of head injury should your head hit something, they do NOT lower your risk of having a whoopsie. Period.

I'm sad that you feel you are at such a risk on a bike. I wonder how so many have survived so well for so long riding bikes without them.