Road Bike Racing - Zipp 303 non-dimpled?

****WHOA! MODS PLEASE DELETE THE TRIPLE POST! How the heck did that happen.....****

The opportunity exists for me to locally buy a low-mileage pair of Zipp 303s laced to a Powertap SL. I'm interested because it would be a step up from my Ksyrium SL front and Open Pro w/ PowerTap SL rear I currently race.

However, these guys are the non-dimpled version from 2006.

Should I stay away from the non-dimpled version for any reason? I typically race road and crits. Minnesota is windy.

Personally I don't really see that much of a need for the dimples on 303's... if you're going fast enough to make the dimples matter, then you should really think long and hard about the 404's (or 808's).

303's are a great rim, but they're mainly for weight weenie-type applications. I assume they're the tubular?

ooo 303s with a PT... i'm saving my pennies

I don't think the lack of dimples matters, but I will say that I had a set of 404's from '06 (non-dimpled). At 175 lbs, I cracked both rims on a single pothole during a race in Central Park. I had them rebuilt with the Pave rims and have had zero issues since and have abused the H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks out of them since. I don't know if the 303's would have the same "fragile" properties of the 404's from that year, but I thought I should let you know what my experience was.

303's are a great rim, but they're mainly for weight weenie-type applications. I assume they're the tubular?

No, they are clinchers... (he says, ducking).

I'm not sure I'm prepared to go the tubular route.

I don't think the lack of dimples matters, but I will say that I had a set of 404's from '06 (non-dimpled). At 175 lbs, I cracked both rims on a single pothole during a race in Central Park. I had them rebuilt with the Pave rims and have had zero issues since and have abused the H-E-Double-Hockey-sticks out of them since. I don't know if the 303's would have the same "fragile" properties of the 404's from that year, but I thought I should let you know what my experience was.

Hmm... I'm 155....

Have you heard of the 303s having cracking issues?

Did you wreck when they cracked?

I know nothing of the 303's having similar issues though I do know one guy who did the same thing with the 404's. I did not wreck, but the breaking surface was marred and so the rim needed to be replaced.

303 clinchers? Weird.

303 clinchers? Weird.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense from the weight weenie aspect. But they'd still be much lighter than my current setup.

I do know one guy who did the same thing with the 404's. I did not wreck, but the breaking surface was marred and so the rim needed to be replaced.


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I put cracks in both my 404s on a single pothole in Harriman this spring.

and I'm not a big fatty like O'Donnell either

No, they are clinchers... (he says, ducking).

I'm not sure I'm prepared to go the tubular route.

Unless they were a very good deal, I'd wait and get 404 clinchers rather than 303 clinchers.

I think they're a great deal. Besides, the dimples make the new ones structurally un-sound. And since you'll have a crapped out old PT just laying around at that point...

I ride every day on 303's for the past two years and they barely show and signs of wear. I weigh 165-170and my experience is they are very sound and sturdy.

The advantage over 404's is weight (something like 50 g) and aren't as affected by crosswinds. They atren't as aero as 404's but still are rather aero at 44 mm.

Here's the thing: the non-dimpled 303's are, if memory serves, 'only' 38 mm deep. They weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 550 grams.

Either aerodynamics matters - in which case you'd want the 404's - or weight matters - in which case you'd want the tubular 303's, or American Classic 420's, etc.

Personally, I think the 'niche' where 303 clinchers make sense is quite small.

and in most of those cases one would be better off with 202s

Hmm... I'm 155....

Have you heard of the 303s having cracking issues?

Did you wreck when they cracked?

yes, I have a set of dimpled 303 clinchers that cracked twice while in a wheel bag, manufacturer defect with spoke tension or something. crack in both cases originated at a spoke nipple and extended outward toward the breaking surface of the rim. no wreck. Zipp replaced rim both times under warranty. I weigh 145 - 150 lbs. depending on the amount of ice cream I stuff myself with and use them on race day only. Damn, I've had some bad luck with spendy bike equipment, maybe I'm harder on stuff than I think I am.

That being said, they're fast wheels and I do like them on race day, particularly rolling/short punchy climbing stuff and technical crits where repeated accelerations matter. No scientific reason I got 303s over 404s or 202s other than I liked the way they looked better, and I'm not f-ing around with tubulars due to breaking surface irregularity and having to change break pads all the time, too much a p-i-t-a for me.

No scientific reason I got 303s over 404s or 202s other than I liked the way they looked better, and I'm not f-ing around with tubulars

FYI, 202's don't come in clinchers, as well they shouldn't. Low profile aluminum-bonded-to-CF rims make no sense.

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I put cracks in both my 404s on a single pothole in Harriman this spring.

and I'm not a big fatty like O'Donnell either

Ditto (at a different race obviously).

You three are frightening me into using my 404's even less than I do now.

I love that *THWACK!* sound those hoops make on potholes. I'll aim for them if I can't get the pack to absorb me for a little draft. MWWWWWAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahah

I think they're a great deal. Besides, the dimples make the new ones structurally un-sound. And since you'll have a crapped out old PT just laying around at that point...

...I can put it on my LeMond and turn that in to my commuter.

Thanks for the idea, Mike! :D

FWIW I epoxied the cracks and have been racing on them ever since.

You three are frightening me into using my 404's even less than I do now.

As I said, had them rebuilt with the Pave rims (what? 100gms heavier?) and I have run them over roubaix-like conditions with zero issues. So, what rims do YOU have?:twitchy:

I have a set of heavier-than-advertised 'standard' 404's. ~415-420 grams each, if I recall correctly.

Eh, I'm gonna take a look at them tonight. It's a good price considering it's a powertap SL. Have to sell my Mavics though.