But Jur, you have a merc right? Why dont go the "littlepixel-way": use your merc-alu-frame and upgrade it over time with brompton parts for all the rest. That would result in a lighter bike than either brompton or merc standard.Nope, you must be thinking of someone else... I was hoping Mauna Kea would swing a Merc frame group buy, but he has been very quiet of late.

I am thinking in terms of a Brommie for commuting and casual riding. Trouble is, I already have the Mini for that.

Ah Jur, okay it was not you.

Hmhm, when owning the mini for commute and wanting the brommi we must create some new reasons for you to buy a brommi. Perhaps you can produce some new children to have application for the nice It chair?
http://clevercycles.com/?p=100
and later the trailerbike
http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/Trailerb.jpg
Or how about a spine injury :twitchy: which leaves you unable to sit upright and with the need for an ultra compact recumbent the "brekki"?
http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/gallery/mcbrrec.jpg

So has anyone named a child "Brompton" yet?

tcs

Ah Jur, okay it was not you.

Hmhm, when owning the mini for commute and wanting the brommi we must create some new reasons for you to buy a brommi. Perhaps you can produce some new children to have application for the nice It chair?
http://clevercycles.com/?p=100
and later the trailerbike
http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/Trailerb.jpg
Or how about a spine injury :twitchy: which leaves you unable to sit upright and with the need for an ultra compact recumbent the "brekki"?
http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/gallery/mcbrrec.jpgProduce more children :eek: :roflmao2:

The best scenario I can come up with is to sell my beloved. The R20, that is, not SWMBO :love:. Then I won't have a primary commuter. Enter the Brommie!

How's the Brompton for loaded touring?

...

How's the Brompton for loaded touring?

I have not yet tried but prepare to do so. Perhaps you might be able to contact Tim Patterson, a writer and serious brompton-world-traveller:
http://ridethisbike.com/2007_07_01_archive.html
http://rucksackwanderer.com/index.html
Somna

The Brompton is an amazingly small folding bike with a good build quality. If you are in the U.K., it is also a good value. But the exchange rate wipes out all of the value. The entry level Brommie is essentially a steel framed utility bike with heavy middling components (but good tires and alloy rims). A huge proportion of the folders here in NYC are Bromptons, but I think that Dahon can take over if they do not blow it on build quality.

Produce more children :eek: :roflmao2:

The best scenario I can come up with is to sell my beloved. The R20, that is, not SWMBO :love:. Then I won't have a primary commuter. Enter the Brommie!

How's the Brompton for loaded touring?

I know you're looking for excuses to buy, but is there really anything you can do with a Brompton that you can't do with a Mini? I personally don't think the Brompton rides any better than the Curve apart from the extra squishiness from the suspension, but IIRC you're not a fan of the suspension on your Mini anyway.

Produce more children :eek: :roflmao2:

The best scenario I can come up with is to sell my beloved. The R20, that is, not SWMBO :love:. Then I won't have a primary commuter. Enter the Brommie!

How's the Brompton for loaded touring?

Yikes!... sell R20? .. must replace ... long commute... loaded touring .. superb comfort.. long wheelbase. racing pedigree.. fast as stink .. English build ... sounds like that = Moulton .. sell more stuff! :eek:

While looking over the patent application, I was surprised to see that the listed inventors, including David Hon, are located in China. From the history they post on their website, I would have thought USA or Taiwan location for researchers, designers, and engineers, but they are listed in Shenzhen, China. Not that it matters, just a curious detail.

Mr David Hon ( also the owner of Dahon) lives with his workers in the Chinese plant.
There are RD folks all over but all the strings go back to Mr David Dahon.

thor

I know you're looking for excuses to buy, but is there really anything you can do with a Brompton that you can't do with a Mini? I personally don't think the Brompton rides any better than the Curve apart from the extra squishiness from the suspension, but IIRC you're not a fan of the suspension on your Mini anyway.

Do you have a Brompton?

know you're looking for excuses to buy, but is there really anything you can do with a Brompton that you can't do with a Mini? I personally don't think the Brompton rides any better than the Curve apart from the extra squishiness from the suspension, but IIRC you're not a fan of the suspension on your Mini anyway. I agree with eastbiker in raising this question makeinu. I have a Brompton and I've test ridden the curve extensively. The Curve D3 is inferior to the Brompton, the Curve SL is a closer call in ride but does not compete on ergonomics and folded footprint. My 6 speed Brompton rides superbly and is a very durable bike.

I have not ridden the Mini but I used to own a Downtube FS 8H which is not that dissimilar except for wheel size. It was a very good bike. Gleaning information from people on here, I would surmise the Mini with its 6 speed hub to be an excellent bike for its pricing level but it cannot compete with a Brompton on folding efficiency. Is it as durable? I'm not qualified to comment. I would assume Brompton's frame warranty is much longer. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Don't get me wrong I love some Dahon models but in the 20" class. That is why I've ordered a Mu SL as the perfect partner to my 6 speed Brommie. One for slight off-road trails with the right tyres and longer distance commuting (20 miles each way) and the Brompton for shorter distances and commute-and-go use off trains.

So I think I'm qualified to offer the opinion that the Brompton remains the leading folder in the 16" class on all-round criteria. A lot of people offer opinions and unfounded criticism when they have barely test ridden the bike or less. Even I was guilty of prejudging the Brommie once until I was advised to take one on an extended test-ride over a weekend and to try out the 6 speed.

Of course, that could change very soon and a lot us are watching the impending release of the Dahon Curl. There is no doubt that Dahon have upped the ante in their high-end bikes in the last few years and continue to do so. I'd also love to see Pacific attack the 16" class with the quality and engineering skills they possess.

Edit: I'd like to chip in that the Bike Friday Tikit is the closest sub-20" wheeled rival to the Brompton and was most impressed with its ride and fold. A great bike and on my shortlist in the future. :)

I agree with eastbiker in raising this question makeinu. I have a Brompton and I've test ridden the curve extensively. The Curve D3 is inferior to the Brompton, the Curve SL is a closer call in ride but does not compete on ergonomics and folded footprint. My 6 speed Brompton rides superbly and is a very durable bike.

I have not ridden the Mini but I used to own a Downtube FS 8H which is not that dissimilar except for wheel size. It was a very good bike. Gleaning information from people on here, I would surmise the Mini with its 6 speed hub to be an excellent bike for its pricing level but it cannot compete with a Brompton on folding efficiency. Is it as durable? I'm not qualified to comment. I would assume Brompton's frame warranty is much longer. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Don't get me wrong I love some Dahon models but in the 20" class. That is why I've ordered a Mu SL as the perfect partner to my 6 speed Brommie. One for slight off-road trails with the right tyres and longer distance commuting (20 miles each way) and the Brompton for shorter distances and commute-and-go use off trains.

So I think I'm qualified to offer the opinion that the Brompton remains the leading folder in the 16" class on all-round criteria. A lot of people offer opinions and unfounded criticism when they have barely test ridden the bike or less. Even I was guilty of prejudging the Brommie once until I was advised to take one on an extended test-ride over a weekend and to try out the 6 speed.

Of course, that could change very soon and a lot us are watching the impending release of the Dahon Curl. There is no doubt that Dahon have upped the ante in their high-end bikes in the last few years and continue to do so. I'd also love to see Pacific attack the 16" class with the quality and engineering skills they possess.

Edit: I'd like to chip in that the Bike Friday Tikit is the closest sub-20" wheeled rival to the Brompton and was most impressed with its ride and fold. A great bike and on my shortlist in the future. :)

While there's nothing wrong with the question itself, I fail to see the relevance of the fact that I do not own a Brompton. The Brompton is a very expensive bike, so it shouldn't be surprising that someone who isn't completely convinced of its full value isn't an owner nor should it be surprising that an individual like yourself who has decided to spend the extra money on a Brompton over the Curve would find it superior. In fact, would it not be awfully suspicious to find anything else, especially among folder enthusiasts like those that frequent this forum? After all, even an "expensive" folding bike like a Brompton is incredibly cheap over the course of a year or two when compared to the transportation options most commonly used by the poor such as public buses; So I would think that almost anyone that found one worthwhile could easily afford one, leaving little else to discriminate between owners and nonowners than acknowledgment of superiority/inferiority.

I also think that sizing has a lot more influence in the ride of a folder than most people around here like to admit. While I have no doubt that the Brompton is a superior ride than the Curve for someone of your taste and dimensions, I honestly don't feel that it's better for someone of my taste and dimensions.

In the end I think there is far too great a variety of opinions out there for you or Eastbiker to criticize my question. Each person is different, so I think it's perfectly fair to advise a Mini owner considering a Brompton to ask themselves if they will personally find enough difference to warrant the purchase. In my case I would not and if I were in the market for a 16" folder with a squarish fold I would probably opt for the Curve. Obviously your case would be different. There's no reason to imply that I'm unqualified to make such a decision or that my opinion is inferior or wrong. Horses for courses.

To bring things back on topic a bit:

When people say the Curl is to have 18" wheels are we talking about a size notably bigger than the Brompton's wheels? What is the ISO rim designation in mm?

18" rims usually refer to the Birdy variant of 355mm size, a smidgen bigger than the more common 349mm. Probably the latter will be the one.

Hi makeinu. I agree with 90% of what you say you know! However, I was just seconding eastbiker's question with respect to you comparing the Curve to the Brompton. I would just challenge you to take a Brompton for a week and then come back with a verdict. Besides you never said it was a poor ride and I share your previous views that it is overpriced to some degree. We all make comments on bikes that we test rode for short periods, myself included.

As for the Curl, it will probably end up with similar wheels to the Tikit? Still curious to see if the chain will still fold on the outside as in the prototype photo and whether Dahon have plans to deal with chain contact with the carrier when folded.

While there's nothing wrong with the question itself, I fail to see the relevance of the fact that I do not own a Brompton. The Brompton is a very expensive bike, so it shouldn't be surprising that someone who isn't completely convinced of its full value isn't an owner nor should it be surprising that an individual like yourself who has decided to spend the extra money on a Brompton over the Curve would find it superior. In fact, would it not be awfully suspicious to find anything else, especially among folder enthusiasts like those that frequent this forum? After all, even an "expensive" folding bike like a Brompton is incredibly cheap over the course of a year or two when compared to the transportation options most commonly used by the poor such as public buses; So I would think that almost anyone that found one worthwhile could easily afford one, leaving little else to discriminate between owners and nonowners than acknowledgment of superiority/inferiority.

I also think that sizing has a lot more influence in the ride of a folder than most people around here like to admit. While I have no doubt that the Brompton is a superior ride than the Curve for someone of your taste and dimensions, I honestly don't feel that it's better for someone of my taste and dimensions.

In the end I think there is far too great a variety of opinions out there for you or Eastbiker to criticize my question. Each person is different, so I think it's perfectly fair to advise a Mini owner considering a Brompton to ask themselves if they will personally find enough difference to warrant the purchase. In my case I would not and if I were in the market for a 16" folder with a squarish fold I would probably opt for the Curve. Obviously your case would be different. There's no reason to imply that I'm unqualified to make such a decision or that my opinion is inferior or wrong. Horses for courses.

The reason for the question is simple. You always harp on Bromptons, yet by your own admission you don't have any experience on it. Why don't you try one out for a couple of days or so and see what you're missing?

I have tried out your favorite bike, the Carryme for several days as a friend loaned me hers for a while. It is a fine bike, but I think it is better suited for bimodal transportation with a short bike leg. It is very tedious to use with the 10 mile commute I have to do from Brooklyn to Manhattan. But if I were to negotiate a few blocks from where I live to the subway station, hop on the train, then bike from the station in Manhattan to my workplace, then it will do nicely. Guess what? The Brompton does that pretty well too.

I would just challenge you to take a Brompton for a week and then come back with a verdict.

Hey! Where do I sign up to "take a Brompton for a week"? :)

tcs

Hey! Where do I sign up to "take a Brompton for a week"? :)

tcs

Agreed!

There are bike shops in the UK where you can do just that. I find most of the complaints against the Dahon folder is the fact it's not as comfortable as the Brompton. I've owned two Dahon folders and discovered it was faster than the Brompton off the mark because of the lack of suspension. However, the only way to get a degree of comfort on the Presto/Piccolo was to get a suspension seat post.

In fact, with the money spent on buying a Brompton, you can get a Curve SL and a Thudbuster seat post! I think this suspension seat post is much better alternative than the built in frame suspension of either Bromton or Mini.

The Curve SL was on display and I'm going to test it next week. I looked it over top to bottom and it's a quality bike. The components were top rate but I still think it needs a suspension seat post or maybe a Brooks Champion Flyer.

18" rims usually refer to the Birdy variant of 355mm size, a smidgen bigger than the more common 349mm. Probably the latter will be the one.

Well, Dahon is a big fan of Schwalbe's Big Apple tires, which are available in 355, but not 349.

Here's hoping they give the Curl 355s with enough clearance for Big Apples. That would make the overall diameter nearly as big as a skinny tired 20" wheel and considerably larger than what's available for the Brompton....and with a smaller fold.

Just as a matter of interest, Andrew from Fudge's cycles in London has posted on the Dahon.com website that he went to a secret showing of Dahon's 2009 bikes and that he mentioned the Curl to the Dahon people. They have been experimenting with the fold and with 16, 18 and 20 inch wheels but will not be releasing anything next year as they have not come up with anything notably special or different so far in their designs. I think this is a testimony to both the original Brompton design (that is hard to improve on) and also Dahon's integrity as bike makers - that they don't want to put out a clone, but want to innovate themselves...

I'm not sure it's a matter of integrity, more the fact that it would be harmful in terms of image/public relations to look as though they'd stolen a design. But the brompton fold in essence is the best, i.e. the folded size is not much larger than the wheel diameter - you can't go smaller than that. So besides improving details here and there, deviating from the fold design is just a matter of avoiding patent issues / or avoiding looking like an imitator at the cost of the efficacy of the design.

well this is probably heresy but here goes. Recently took delivery of a mini. One major issue to resolve, but it is a much better ride, imho than my merc-ton, and has advantages ergonomically. Accept (1) merc is not a brompton. Note (2) I am 210lbs and 6'. So: (a) Mini is much less flexi when riding (b) 8 gears standard (c) handlebar height adjusts (d) can foldhandlebars and in half, not fully I admit, and leave trunk/panniers on (e) more manouevrable when wheeling/liftings the bike in unfolded mode.

Its all very well saying the brompmercton folds small, but it is becrikey heavy when you have to carry it from one side of a station to another up and down stairs with your work stuff as well.

...as they have not come up with anything notably special or different so far in their designs.

So the feeling is the patent application will be denied?

tcs

I'm not sure it's a matter of integrity, more the fact that it would be harmful in terms of image/public relations to look as though they'd stolen a design.

In terms of design, what is a Curve but an evolved Raleigh Twenty? For that matter, what is a Brompton but a Moulton Marathon with a side fold hinge?

tcs

True. Is it a patent issue that prevents other companies mimicking the Brompton fold? I'd (of course) be happier if all companies were using the same folding mechanisms and competing over the quality, and price.

think Dahon has some patents on the curl .... I dont think its a patent issue .. but as Josh Hon said, they want to test and retest and make it better yet, before they actually put it in production and sell it.

I lust for that bike , but I can wait a year longer and than get a better version

thor