Dahon's new brompton lookalike?

[Raxel]

I've just heard this very interesting info that dahon is going to release a new ultracompact folder.


-It will be named 'Curl'
-It will have 18" wheel
-It will fold like brompton. (Rear swingarm folds downwards, not sideways like current dahons)
-It will have aluminium frame that look like current Curve model.


And I guess it will have V-brakes, internal gear hub (3 speed/8 speed), Klickfix mount as such.
At last, modernized brompton from dahon... :) I can't wait to get one.


http://img2.dcinside.com/viewimage.php?id=bicycle&no=29bcc427b48677a16fb3dab004c86b6f9a697bf10be2d1d46376430b385c79a081e115b75a95d56c9a7b57ee8a1155aee 3f79e785c8bc19a2480fd00aaa1f11f41ff9aa6a8f204&f_no=2ea8c22adad137a26bee84e2419f2e2df9

[Lalato]

Link?

[Lalato]

Actually, a while back there was a post about a new Dahon patent application. I'll see if I can dig it up.

--sam

[LittlePixel]

There was some discussion about some patents filed by Dahon that sound like this bike a while ago. I think it does a few things differently to avoid infringement - one of which is that the chain doesn't end up on the inside of the fold which is a shame.

Old thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=357071&highlight=dahon+patent+brompton)

[Raxel]

I cannot find the link on the web, but the bike is introduced in japanese smallewheer book named 'minivelo bible' published in this may. I'm going to get the book soon and scan the pictures.

[LittlePixel]

jinx!

[Lalato]

LittlePixel to the rescue. ;)

Anyway... glad to hear that this design may actually go to market. I agree though, that it would have been better for the chain to be inside. In other news... I will postpone my plans on a new bike until I see more info on this one.

--sam

[invisiblehand]

18" wheels? Interesting ... especially if it can fit the ERTO 355 Big Apples.

[makeinu]

Sounds good, I would be interested in a Brompton substitute if it were affordable. Plus with Dahon's upgraded technology (low spoke wheels, aluminum frame, etc) it actually has the potential to be mass produced at under 20 pounds.

With it's magnesium frame the Mu XXV is almost 15 pounds and although I think $3000, is a bit too much for that particular bike, $3000 would be a steal if Dahon could pull off a Brompton clone at the same weight.

P.S. Reviewing the patent it looks like Dahon is claiming that their bike will actually fold smaller than the Brompton because the frame tube will go between the wheels instead of on top and consequently the saddle does not protrude vertically like it does on a folded Brompton. Their also claiming that their use of an offset hinge will make the prototype thinner than the Brompton.

[PhotoByBike]

I don't know that I could ever consider a $3000 bike a steal.

I gave $369 for my DT, plus another $350 or so for accessories and upgrades, and I still feel like I spent about $600 more than I wanted to for a bike. :)

[Urbanis]

It's a steal... from your wallet!

[Raxel]

http://img2.dcinside.com/viewimage.php?id=bicycle&no=29bcc427b48677a16fb3dab004c86b6f9a697bf10be2d1d46376430b385c79a081e115b75a95d56c9a7b57ee8a1155aee 3f79e785c8bc19a2480fd00aaa1f11f41ff9aa6a8f204&f_no=2ea8c22adad137a26bee84e2419f2e2df9

Just found a pic. I can see V brakes, hub gears, 355 marathon racer tires, integrated rear carrier, a new folding pedal, curious linkage at the seatpost etc..

[bangkok]

Pics of the prototype have been circulating since late last year, when Dahon displayed a bike at an exhibition in China.

It is this patent:
http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US2007210556&F=0&QPN=US2007210556

from this Oct '07 thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=357071&highlight

[randyprice]

Damn!
I so wanted to by a Curve Sl. But, I would like a bike to quick fold Into a suitcase.
I have Bike Friday, but what a pain to break down. That is a sweet picture. Anyone want to venture a quess to the size of theCurl?

[jur]

Looks ready for release. Let's hope there are no booby traps like the inside-lock handlepost hinge latch.

[Caaah]

So much for me only having one folder. :lol:

Then again, with their jump up in prices this year, I wonder if it will be any cheaper than a Brompton. If its the same price, and only has the three speed hub, I'll pass.

[jur]

Looks like it has a Nexus (8sp).

You can bet money that it will be premium priced. Very similar to Brommie. They have the advantage of much greater manufacturing power and distribution in the US. Despite a similar price to the Brommie, they'll be much more available and people will buy them. In fact the current group of loyal Dahon owners will snap up the first wave.

PS If anyone wants to know the winning lottery numbers, contact me offline.

[LittlePixel]

Intriguing how the rear triangle seems to fold on the outside of the chainwheel

[CrimsonEclipse]

Thanks for the pic Raxel.

I'll need a few more pics, but it looks like a good setup.

When is it due out?
(and will my P8 last that long?)

CE

[Caaah]

Looks like it has a Nexus (8sp).

You can bet money that it will be premium priced. Very similar to Brommie. They have the advantage of much greater manufacturing power and distribution in the US. Despite a similar price to the Brommie, they'll be much more available and people will buy them. In fact the current group of loyal Dahon owners will snap up the first wave.

PS If anyone wants to know the winning lottery numbers, contact me offline.

Ooooh, 8 speed. If its $800-$1000 I could live with that. Its only a few hundred more than my Curve with the 8 speed upgrade. I smell early christmas present!

[PDR]

It looks rather good and hopefully it will have better components than Brompton typically use... I mean just look how cheap ‘n’ nasty the brake levers and clamps are on a Brompton. It might just give Brompton the incentive to fit parts worthy of their premium price tag.

[folder fanatic]

http://img2.dcinside.com/viewimage.php?id=bicycle&no=29bcc427b48677a16fb3dab004c86b6f9a697bf10be2d1d46376430b385c79a081e115b75a95d56c9a7b57ee8a1155aee 3f79e785c8bc19a2480fd00aaa1f11f41ff9aa6a8f204&f_no=2ea8c22adad137a26bee84e2419f2e2df9

Just found a pic. I can see V brakes, hub gears, 355 marathon racer tires, integrated rear carrier, a new folding pedal, curious linkage at the seatpost etc..

Nice, but is it a good predessessor to the Brompton? I see aluminium frame, more fussier parts (like a derailluer and other tiny parts), and a probable rather high price. Even at that price, I rather go for a true high price luxury folding bikes like a real genuine steel frame Brompton or a Bike Friday tikit. Not a imitation-even if it is a clever design and improves upon the originals.

[pismocycleguy]

I think that the derailleur that you see is actually a chain tensioner?:)
Better wait for more and clearer photos before critique-ing:(
I'm willing to wait to see the finished product.

[bangkok]

2 pics from a trade show last year.

[bykerouac]

Nice, but is it a good predessessor to the Brompton? I see aluminium frame, more fussier parts (like a derailluer and other tiny parts), and a probable rather high price. Even at that price, I rather go for a true high price luxury folding bikes like a real genuine steel frame Brompton or a Bike Friday tikit. Not a imitation-even if it is a clever design and improves upon the originals.

Aluminum main frame would make it really lighter. I'd like to see it before I pass a verdict.

[jur]

... luxury folding bikes like a real genuine steel frame Brompton or a Bike Friday tikit. Not a imitation-even if it is a clever design and improves upon the originals.

Not sure what you are trying to put accross here... it seems you are saying if bikes are made from anything other than "genuine steel", they are imitations...?

I certainly don't wish to ignite a rather pointless "one material is better than another" debate, but you seem very prejudiced with no apparant good reason.

Firstly, modern materials including steel have moved far beyond "genuine steel." My personal favourite is stainless steel. But not because a frame made from it would superiour in its fundamental bike-related qualities. No, just because I like the idea.

Secondly, bikes made from steel can be terrible, far worse than aluminium. Quality doesn't depend on the material from which they are made. But a bad steel bike is usually worse than a bad aluminium bike.

Thirdly, the new Dahon is a patented design, so it has been accepted by the patent office that it is different significantly enough to a Brompton to warrant a separate patent. These people have therefore pored over the details and compared it to the Brompton, unlike you who seem to have made a snap judgment based on one photo and some prejudice. There a very limited number of ways a bike can be folded, the frame fold is one, the back wheels swivelling forward is another, both ideas are used by a large number of different manufacturers. Now Dahon decides to implement it, and they are imitating? Why not the others, such as Bike Friday or Birdy?

[Raxel]

I have seen numerous crack cases of bike fridays and a couple of cases of bromptons.
In fact bromptons have the same weight restriction (105kg AFIAK) as dahons. So if you think steel is inherently more durable/strong than aluminium, it is not true.

And I don't think bromptons and tikits are luxurious either. They use very cheap components, and their high costs are mainly due to how and where they are manufactured. If they are mass produced in asia their price can go down as low as low-end dahon models.

BTW there are some stainless steel bikes around... some moultons and some reynold 953 bikes. Unfortunately they are more expensive than titanium ones :]

[mjw]

Thirdly, the new Dahon is a patented design, so it has been accepted by the patent office that it is different significantly enough to a Brompton to warrant a separate patent. These people have therefore pored over the details and compared it to the Brompton, unlike you who seem to have made a snap judgment based on one photo and some prejudice. There a very limited number of ways a bike can be folded, the frame fold is one, the back wheels swivelling forward is another, both ideas are used by a large number of different manufacturers. Now Dahon decides to implement it, and they are imitating? Why not the others, such as Bike Friday or Birdy?

The design has not in fact been patented. It is a published application and has not been picked up by an examiner yet.

They have claimed the following as their invention but again, it is not yet patented and is subject to change. Most claim sets are rejected at first.

What is claimed is:

1. A folding bicycle comprises a frame, a front wheel, a rear wheel and a rear fork; wherein the frame includes a beam and a central axle; and wherein a folding joint is installed on the beam, and the rear fork is hinged with the frame via a hinge axle, on the rear fork is installed a support bar which rests against the frame; characterized in that, the beam is S-shaped, and the hinge axle is tilted by an acute angle with respect to the central axle of the frame.

2. The folding bicycle according to claim 1, characterized in that, the angle between the hinge axle and the central axle is between 1° to 5.

3. The folding bicycle according to claim 1, characterized in that, the top of the support bar has a ball protrusion, correspondingly a sleeve with a hole is provided at the frame, such that the ball protrusion can be inserted into the hole of the sleeve, and wherein the sleeve is made of elastic materials.

4. The folding bicycle according to claim 1, characterized in that, a reinforcing rib is provided at the frame, which is welded to connect the beam, a seat tube and a hinge seat into a whole, and wherein the hinge axle is mounted within the hinge seat.

[jur]

To me it looks like the patent has been granted, US patent #20070210556.

[mjw]

In the US, Patents are currently 7 digits (numbered from patent #1). Patent application numbers start with the year and are followed by 7 digits.

If you go to the bib data about the application (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US2007210556&F=0&QPN=US2007210556), it says publication number- nowhere does it say a patent number.

[jur]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

But it remains a proper application, and would not have been submitted unless the patent attorneys were convinced it is novel and non-obvious in some ways, and/or poses an improvement on an existing design, or something like that. The point was not whether it is actually a granted patent (it's pending), but whether it is a novel development over something like the Brompton or Birdy, and not an imitation. The point of the invention is a smaller fold.

[mjw]

Yes they're probably pretty confident given that they've most likely spent tens of thousands of dollars on this application- for example attorney's fees in various countries, application fees in those countries, and translations (one of the reasons the application is so short- easier translation). Also Mr. Hon has been in the game a long time and knows all the competition.

Lots of interesting bikes (http://www.google.com/patents?as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=2008&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=2008&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=1&as_miny_ap=2008&as_maxm_ap=1&as_maxy_ap=2008&q=uspclass:%22280/278%22&num=100&scoring=1) in US class/subclass 280/278 (http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/classification/uspc280/defs280.htm#C280S278000) (land vehicles with folding frame)

On a related note, I was sitting on the train with my Vitesse and I got to thinking that a second fold would sure make it smaller- looks like someone's figured it out.

[mjw]

Also, take a look at figures 2 and 3. The background says this is from "a UK patent" and it looks like the brompton. The background section goes on to state why the brompton is not an optimum design and how they go about making it better.

[somnatash]

Hi mjw,
can you please explain what you mean by "figure 2 and 3" or explain "why the brompton is not an optimum design and how they go about making it better"
Thanks

[mulleady]

Not sure what you are trying to put accross here... it seems you are saying if bikes are made from anything other than "genuine steel", they are imitations...?

I certainly don't wish to ignite a rather pointless "one material is better than another" debate, but you seem very prejudiced with no apparant good reason.

Firstly, modern materials including steel have moved far beyond "genuine steel." My personal favourite is stainless steel. But not because a frame made from it would superiour in its fundamental bike-related qualities. No, just because I like the idea.

Secondly, bikes made from steel can be terrible, far worse than aluminium. Quality doesn't depend on the material from which they are made. But a bad steel bike is usually worse than a bad aluminium bike.

Thirdly, the new Dahon is a patented design, so it has been accepted by the patent office that it is different significantly enough to a Brompton to warrant a separate patent. These people have therefore pored over the details and compared it to the Brompton, unlike you who seem to have made a snap judgment based on one photo and some prejudice. There a very limited number of ways a bike can be folded, the frame fold is one, the back wheels swivelling forward is another, both ideas are used by a large number of different manufacturers. Now Dahon decides to implement it, and they are imitating? Why not the others, such as Bike Friday or Birdy?

Did you fall out the wrong side of the bed this weekend Jur? :D

[mulleady]

I've just heard this very interesting info that dahon is going to release a new ultracompact folder.


-It will be named 'Curl'
-It will have 18" wheel
-It will fold like brompton. (Rear swingarm folds downwards, not sideways like current dahons)
-It will have aluminium frame that look like current Curve model.


And I guess it will have V-brakes, internal gear hub (3 speed/8 speed), Klickfix mount as such.
At last, modernized brompton from dahon... :) I can't wait to get one.


http://img2.dcinside.com/viewimage.php?id=bicycle&no=29bcc427b48677a16fb3dab004c86b6f9a697bf10be2d1d46376430b385c79a081e115b75a95d56c9a7b57ee8a1155aee 3f79e785c8bc19a2480fd00aaa1f11f41ff9aa6a8f204&f_no=2ea8c22adad137a26bee84e2419f2e2df9

I don't think the Brompton is old fashioned at all. I've had one 2 months and it looks great and performs flawlessly. That is a subjective view. Bromptons are built for durability and although I would agree Andrew Ritchie is conservative, there have been incremental improvements. It is part of the Brompton brand to have a classic look and sure it's not for everybody.

I'd be surprised this Dahon comes in at the budget point of the Curve SL. However a $1000-1100 would be very interesting. The name Curl is simply brilliant branding wise, very simple but clever.

[mulleady]

Also, take a look at figures 2 and 3. The background says this is from "a UK patent" and it looks like the brompton. The background section goes on to state why the brompton is not an optimum design and how they go about making it better.

That's a mistake to compare like that by them in the document. What is 'optimal' as Somnetash says? My Brompton folds and unfolds in seconds! Only criticism is trying to roll it more efficiently when folded.

[jur]

Did you fall out the wrong side of the bed this weekend Jur? :DNot far wrong there mate. :(

It came accross as *****y, then? * sigh * I do have foot in mouth disease.

FF, don't take this as personal pls. It's just clumsy ol me making a mess of it again. :(

[Dahon.Steve]

http://img2.dcinside.com/viewimage.php?id=bicycle&no=29bcc427b48677a16fb3dab004c86b6f9a697bf10be2d1d46376430b385c79a081e115b75a95d56c9a7b57ee8a1155aee 3f79e785c8bc19a2480fd00aaa1f11f41ff9aa6a8f204&f_no=2ea8c22adad137a26bee84e2419f2e2df9

Just found a pic. I can see V brakes, hub gears, 355 marathon racer tires, integrated rear carrier, a new folding pedal, curious linkage at the seatpost etc..

I wonder how you're supposed to carry the bike? LOL. The fold is so small, how do you pick the bike up?

It looks like the frame has a huge intendation in the middle so that's how they made the fold so small. Let's hope they manage to keep the bike below $600.00 USD and use the Nexus 8 speed. I just might end up selling my two Dahon folders for this one. These are interesting times indeed!

OH... Please Dahon, use a better color. I want fire engine RED!

[jur]

The Mu XL is over $900 with similar sort of specs. If this was priced the same as the Mu XL the Mu XL sales might suffer, so I doubt this one would see under a $1k. I would expect introductory pricing in the range of $1200.

[mulleady]

Not far wrong there mate. :(

It came accross as *****y, then? * sigh * I do have foot in mouth disease.

FF, don't take this as personal pls. It's just clumsy ol me making a mess of it again. :(

You aren't normally grouchy in fairness except to one user but there was a reason for that lol

[mulleady]

The Mu XL is over $900 with similar sort of specs. If this was priced the same as the Mu XL the Mu XL sales might suffer, so I doubt this one would see under a $1k. I would expect introductory pricing in the range of $1200.

Still would be a good price. A modded Brompton with Nexus 8 speed would cost a lot more. Will be depend a lot how well and quick it folds and durability of parts.

[Raxel]

Still would be a good price. A modded Brompton with Nexus 8 speed would cost a lot more. Will be depend a lot how well and quick it folds and durability of parts.

A modded Brompton with Nexus 8 speed would weigh at least 4~5 lbs more too.

[mjw]

Hi mjw,
can you please explain what you mean by "figure 2 and 3" or explain "why the brompton is not an optimum design and how they go about making it better"
Thanks

From the application:

As shown in FIG. 2, in a folding bicycle disclosed by a UK patent, a folding joint is installed on its beam and the rear fork is hinged with the frame, so that the front part of the bicycle can be folded laterally via the folding joint and the rear fork can be,folded forward around the hinge axle 6 a . As shown in FIG. 3, since this bicycle can be folded at two points, after the bicycle is folded, the frame is positioned between two wheels instead of sticking out, and the folded bicycle is smaller in volume. However, since the hinge axle 6 a is parallel to the central axle 7 a , after the bicycle is folded, the rear wheel 8 a is positioned below the beam 3 a . As a result, the beam is slightly higher than the wheel. Meanwhile, the beam must be humped up in order to have the rear wheel placed under it, which looks not natural and orderly, and which affects the strength and rigidity of the folded bicycle. Furthermore, since the hinge axle is parallel to the central axle, the rear part of the bicycle can not be folded sufficiently close to the beam and the bicycle still has a large width after being folded.

See drawings here. (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdraw?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US2007210556&F=0&QPN=DE102007009887&RPN=DE102007009887&DOC=cb973e0ac27930e7a76625e3ab630ada81)

I don't speak German but here's the one from the German Patent Application (http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US2007210556&F=0&QPN=DE102007009887&RPN=DE102007009887&DOC=cb973e0ac27930e7a76625e3ab630ada81):
Wie in Fig. 2 dargestellt ist, ist bei einem Klapprad, welches durch ein UK-Patent offenbart wird, in seine Stange ein Klappgelenk eingebaut, und die hintere Gabel ist mit dem Rahmen gelenkig verbunden, so dass der vordere Teil des Fahrrads mit Hilfe des Klappgelenks seitwärts geklappt werden kann und die Hintergabel um die Scharnierachse 6a nach vorn geklappt werden kann. Da dieses Fahrrad an zwei Stellen geklappt werden kann, befindet sich der Rahmen, nachdem das Fahrrad zusammengeklappt worden ist, zwischen den beiden Rädern, wie das in Fig. 3 dargestellt ist, und steht nicht mehr ab, so dass das zusammengeklappte Fahrrad in seinem Volumen kleiner ist. Da die Scharnierachse 6a parallel zur Mittelachse 7a liegt, nachdem das Fahrrad zusammengeklappt worden ist, befindet sich das Hinterrad 8a jedoch unter der Stange 3a. Das Ergebnis ist, dass die Stange etwas höher liegt als das Rad. Das bedeutet, dass die Stange etwas angehoben werden muss, damit das Hinterrad unter sie gebracht wird, was nicht natürlich und nicht ordentlich aussieht und auch die Festigkeit und die Starrheit des zusammengeklappten Fahrrads beeinträchtigt. Da die Scharnierachse parallel zur Mittelachse ist, kommt hinzu, dass der hintere Teil des Fahrrads nicht hinreichend dicht an die Stange geklappt werden kann und durch das Fahrrad noch immer eine zu grosse Breite aufweist, nachdem es zusammengeklappt worden ist.


That's a mistake to compare like that by them in the document. What is 'optimal' as Somnetash says?

Of course it's the opinion of Mr. Hon. I didn't mean to say that the Brompton was worse-Only that Mr. Hon identified what he calls a problem with the Brompton and tried to fix it. It's good he gives this background because look at everyone who said "oh this is a Brompton clone". He's telling you exactly why it's different.

[mulleady]

Of course didn't mean you Raxel! :D

[Weakling]

As in Fig. 2, is built with a folding wheel, which is revealed by a UK-patent,
into its bar a folding joint is represented, and the rear fork is articulated
connected with the framework, so that the front part of the bicycle can be
folded with the help of the folding joint sideways and be folded forward the
Hintergabel (rear fork?) around the hinge axis 6a can.

Since this bicycle can be folded in two places , the framework,
after the bicycle was folded up, between the two wheels is, as in Fig. 3
is represented, and is not away, so that the folded up bicycle is smaller
in its volume. Since the hinge axis 6a lies parallel to the axle center 7a,
after the bicycle was folded up, the rear wheel 8a is however under the bar 3a.

The result is that the bar lies somewhat more highly than the wheel.
That means the fact that the bar must be raised somewhat, so that
the rear wheel is brought under it, which naturally and not does not
look tidy and also the firmness and the stiffness of the folded up bicycle impairs.

Since the hinge axis is parallel to the axle center, it is added that the rear part
of the bicycle can be folded not sufficiently closely to the bar and by the bicycle
still too large width exhibits, after it was folded up.

I guess those who knows english better that german prefer the englsih original?

I know almost nil german.

Doesn't Dahon have any picture of it not folded? Too new? 1200USD would be too much for me.

The good thing about something that small folded is that one could put it in a sac and that sac
in the "Cart" at the mall so one can take it inside and not get it stolen.

Naive as I am I tried to use my Microbike as a kind of trolley but they got angry me used in inside.
So to have an ultra small package like that is maybe a good thing. And it rides better than A-bike
most likely.

How much bigger is a Downtube Mini compared to this one and how much does a DT Mini cost.

Not 1200 I guess? Would the DT mini be so much of a downgrade to use? Very small that one too?

[Clownbike]

I have seen numerous crack cases of bike fridays and a couple of cases of bromptons.
In fact bromptons have the same weight restriction (105kg AFIAK) as dahons. So if you think steel is inherently more durable/strong than aluminium, it is not true.

And I don't think bromptons and tikits are luxurious either. They use very cheap components, and their high costs are mainly due to how and where they are manufactured. If they are mass produced in asia their price can go down as low as low-end dahon models.

BTW there are some stainless steel bikes around... some moultons and some reynold 953 bikes. Unfortunately they are more expensive than titanium ones :]

In the early 70's I had a Peugeot 10speed frame break in the middle of a cross country trip. Yes, they did honor the lifetime frame warranty, but the ChroMo frame did break and I had to have the frame brazed in Kansas to make it back to California and I was responsible for rebuilding the bike on the new frame.

Unfortunately, as the Strida has shown, Asian mass production does not guarantee a lower price out the door. Morgans are still hand made in England, but I wouldn't want to pay that kind of money for sliding post front suspension.

The original Dahon Mariner also had a stainless frame.

[Raxel]

I don't think the Brompton is old fashioned at all. I've had one 2 months and it looks great and performs flawlessly. That is a subjective view. Bromptons are built for durability and although I would agree Andrew Ritchie is conservative, there have been incremental improvements. It is part of the Brompton brand to have a classic look and sure it's not for everybody.

Bromptons look great and perform OK, but so do english 3-speed bikes.
They are ignoring some obvious design faults and sticking to legacy design/parts.
And for the incremental improvements...

I just cannot understand why they are using expensive titanium parts to save little weight, and still using cheap and heavy components of old design. They are selling titanium seatpost at $200, which is a legacy design and requires penta-clip to use with modern saddles. Combined with pentaclip, it weighs more than cheap dahon or birdy stock seatposts. And for pedals- they are selling titanium spindled version of the same brick-like pedal at extra $$$. It is almost a joke...

In my opinion, with minor design change and using better components for rims/cranks/bottom brackets/seatposts etc they can easily shave more than 1kg without much expense.

[mulleady]

Bromptons look great and perform OK, but so do english 3-speed bikes.
They are ignoring some obvious design faults and sticking to legacy design/parts.
And for the incremental improvements...

I just cannot understand why they are using expensive titanium parts to save little weight, and still using cheap and heavy components of old design. They are selling titanium seatpost at $200, which is a legacy design and requires penta-clip to use with modern saddles. Combined with pentaclip, it weighs more than cheap dahon or birdy stock seatposts. And for pedals- they are selling titanium spindled version of the same brick-like pedal at extra $$$. It is almost a joke...

In my opinion, with minor design change and using better components for rims/cranks/bottom brackets/seatposts etc they can easily shave more than 1kg without much expense.

I agree with almost everything except the OK performance. My 6 speed performs and rides really well for a commute and go bike. A little bit harsh on the Brompton give its compact nature. As for 'old' design. most of the components are designed for durability. The Brompton is undoubtedly durable and very reliable.

On th expensive weight savign options your arguments are irrefutable. I went for the standard steel frame in raw lacquer with 6 speed, why waste the money? Of course Brompton should test the market a little more developing a better lightweight version.

[somnatash]

...I just cannot understand why they are using...components of old design. ... titanium seatpost ... requires penta-clip
Yes, a microadjust seatpost top would be fine. Luckily one can exchange the top of the telescopic seatpost with such.

... titanium seatpost... Combined with pentaclip, it weighs more than cheap dahon or birdy stock seatposts.Is that so? If you have exact weights of the posts and also their seizes I would be interested. From websites weights it seems different (no guaranty):

Pentaclip:98g
brompton ti-seatpost: 268g (so +Pentaclip 98g=366g!)
long (+6cm) brompton ti: 298g
telescopic brompton ti (bottom, top and quick release): 495g
telescopic bottom only: 264g

Birdy Alloy: 452g
New Birdy Alloy 552g
Birdy Ti: 385g

Dahon regular seatpost: 524g
Dahon telescopic top: 260g+Dahon telescopic lower unit: 430g =690g
Dahon special light SDG i-Beam Pro seatpost: 396g

...In my opinion, with minor design change and using better components for rims/cranks/bottom brackets/seatposts etc they can easily shave more than 1kg without much expense.I am really interested in examples
Raxel, please share them if you have. As I try to waste my money on lighter components for a brompton, I realized it possible but not so easy:

Rims: (ETRO349)
Sun M14A 227.5g (Anybody have a dealer to buy these?)
Velocity AeroHead: 235g says website but my kitchen scale tells: 250-255g :(
Velocity AeroHeat: 272g
brompton rims: 287g
Sun L20: 300g
Sun CR18:305g

Birdy (AlexDV16=355x16): 310g
Birdy (AlexDV15=355x15): 290g

cranks and bb incl. chainwheel:~809g:
brompton cranks (170mm)+50Teeth set, including chain-disc: ~ 539g
bb:~269g
To lighten: swap the bb for TA-Axis ti: Brompton-set + TA-Axix: 690g
Anybody ideas for a lighter set that fits the fold, maybe some carbon or magnesium cranks?