Foo - 37" LCD TV; 720p or 1080p?

Is it worth going for the 1080 LCD TVs in the 37" size? Can you tell the difference between the two?

1080, i don't have one LCD at all, but when i looked for them, the difference is there, you may have to pay good attention to brands and how their contrast ratio is, the higher it is, the better.

Maybe someone can correct me or support this, but if you buy a 1080p with a 1000:1 contrast ratio is not worth it as much as a 15000:1 ratio?

Good luck!

yes/yes
:) You'll be happier in the long run if you do it right the first time!

Yes.

No, on a 37" TV you would have to sit very close to see the resolution between 1080p and 720p. Generally until you get over 43" you can stick with 720p and even then it depends on how close you sit. Regardless of resolution your eyes can only see so much detail and this is highly dependent on how close you sit to the Tv.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa32/stonecrd/resolution_chart.jpg

Very nice, i now know what to really look for, hehehe, thanks!

1080, i don't have one LCD at all, but when i looked for them, the difference is there, you may have to pay good attention to brands and how their compression ratio is, the higher it is, the better.

Maybe someone can correct me or support this, but if you buy a 1080p with a 1000:1 compression ratio is not worth it as much as a 15000:1 ratio?

Good luck!

I think you mean contrast ratio, right? The contrast ratio numbers that different manufacturers put out are highly variable, as there's really no industry standard for measuring this number. An LCD TV from a quality manufacturer like Sony, LG, Panasonic, etc, that has a 1000:1 contrast ratio is often much better than a no-name LCD TV with a claimed 10,000:1 contrast ratio. Go with how it looks to your eyes instead of based on this number.

I think you mean contrast ratio, right? The contrast ratio numbers that different manufacturers put out are highly variable, as there's really no industry standard for measuring this number. An LCD TV from a quality manufacturer like Sony, LG, Panasonic, etc, that has a 1000:1 contrast ratio is often much better than a no-name LCD TV with a claimed 10,000:1 contrast ratio. Go with how it looks to your eyes instead of based on this number.

Always go with what looks better to you but realize that in most stores the displays are set in store mode which greatly increases the sharpness and contrast to make the picture look good in a brightly lit space. Good black levels and high contrast will make more of difference than resolution on a 37". To make things really look good you can get a calibration disk and adjust your setting or even spend bigger bucks on a professional calibration. If you think cycling has a lot of swag and expense getting into home theater really sucks you in. Next you need a new audio system, dedicated subwoofers........

To the OP, depending on what you'll be viewing most of the time, it may be worth looking into a TV with a 120Hz refresh rate (instead of the standard 60Hz). There are more and more TVs out there now with the higher refresh rate, and I find that it makes watching any TV program with a lot of motion (sports, action movies, etc.) much more enjoyable as there's less of the "streaking" effect.

If you're interested, the reason for this (as I understand it) is that TV shows are broadcast at 24 frames per second. At a 60 Hz refresh rate, the TV has to decide which frames to show for 2 cycles and which to show for 1 cycle, since 60 is not evenly divisible by 24. So usually every 3rd frame stays on screen half as long as the others. With a 120Hz refresh rate, this is not a problem as every frame stays on screen for exactly 5 cycles.

compression ratio

Contrast ratio?

Always go with what looks better to you but realize that in most stores the displays are set in store mode which greatly increases the sharpness and contrast to make the picture look good in a brightly lit space. Good black levels and high contrast will make more of difference than resolution on a 37". To make things really look good you can get a calibration disk and adjust your setting or even spend bigger bucks on a professional calibration. If you think cycling has a lot of swag and expense getting into home theater really sucks you in. Next you need a new audio system, dedicated subwoofers........

+1

The more you read about this stuff, the more complicated it becomes, the harder it becomes to make a decision, and the more money you end up spending.

Oh and the last bit of advice ignore anyone working at Best Buy Circuit City etc, they have no idea what they are talking about do your own research and start at www.avsforum.com

Oh and the last bit of advice ignore anyone working at Best Buy Circuit City etc, they have no idea what they are talking about do your own research and start at www.avsforum.com

+1000000000000.....

Yes, contrast ratio.

My bad, i was thinking of car stuff while i posted.

Currently editing original post.!

Thanks!

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/contrast-ratio.html

If you have lights on, chances are you won't notice the contrast ratio anyway. People are suckers for big numbers. Go with 1080p. I am waiting until next year when digital become mandatory. Prices should drop fast.

I would have thought response time would be important, but manufactures make up these numbers as well.
http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/lcd-response-time.html

http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/contrast-ratio.html

If you have lights on, chances are you won't notice the contrast ratio anyway. People are suckers for big numbers. Go with 1080p. I am waiting until next year when digital become mandatory. Prices should drop fast.

I would have thought response time would be important, but manufactures make up these numbers as well.
http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/lcd-response-time.html

Not sure if that was in response to my post, but response time is not the same thing as refresh rate. Refresh rate, I believe, is an industry standard measure and is an objective number. Response time, as the article you linked points out, depends greatly on how it's measured.

At 37" I would ditch LCD and go plasma, 1080p. The Panasonic Viera rocks, and they just released the new series PX37 something or other D. Last year's version (which I got after much research) topped all the reviews. The picture is stunning.

Why?

Is it worth going for the 1080 LCD TVs in the 37" size? Can you tell the difference between the two?

No!

I can't believe you people are all accepting the 37" part of his question. I say go minimum 50", 1080p. Sure you get used to the size of the screen, but as soon as you go to a friend's house and enjoy an HD movie on his 50" screen, you will suddenly feel inadequate and have the urge to upgrade. So skip the "beginner TV" and go straight to what you really want!

Full disclosure: All I have is a Sony 13" tube TV. I'm basing my opinion on my friend's awesome 50" plasma.

Plasma's on its way out... don't get stuck with obsolete technology... ;)

42? puullllease...

103" please..

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20060719/pana1_04.jpg

Well, the person who was buying the TV ended up getting a Samsung 42" Plasma 720p for $899 (they had a over $700 worth of gift cards for Best Buy) http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8749376&type=product&id=1202650190227

We looked at every TV there objectively, took into consideration they don't watch that much TV and from the distance the TV will be viewed at and our nondiscerning eyes, 1080p would probably be a waste, and the price between the 37" and 40" TV and then the 42", the cost of the 42" Samsung 720p plasma seemed perfect.

Bought the Samsung upconvert DVD player for $50 too, and had the thing set up and watched "Superbad" last night. Gotta say it looked great to me. The tv will probably eventually become a bedroom TV in the future when prices come down for the 1080p in a few years, but it will certainly suffice for now.

Good choice the Tv will be great for as long as you need it. Probably in the end LCD will win out and DLP is dead except for projectors. LCD prices are still pretty high when you look at anything >50" at 1080p. If you want to invest in Blu-ray the PS3 is probably the best/cheapest option even if you don't do gaming. It will be a while before standalone Blu-ray players fall below $200.

I know you already got a TV but here is just some info.

I have a 57" Mitsubishi DLP. It is 1080p.

now you have to look at what your cable company provides. Regular TV is 480i no matter what your TV is. My HD channels are 1080i. They look amazing but I only have maybe 20 - 30 channels in HD. Most shows I view in 480i.

Just something to think of when you get a TV.

I know you already got a TV but here is just some info.

I have a 57" Mitsubishi DLP. It is 1080p.

now you have to look at what your cable company provides. Regular TV is 480i no matter what your TV is. My HD channels are 1080i. They look amazing but I only have maybe 20 - 30 channels in HD. Most shows I view in 480i.

Just something to think of when you get a TV.

That was another point I made, I think there are maybe 20-30 channels in HD here, and maybe only a handful I actually watch.

42? puullllease...

103" please..

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20060719/pana1_04.jpg

please. skip plasma and go big. real big. 119" or nothing.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2341/2284698071_feeaa5deb4.jpg

:thumb:

later.

please. skip plasma and go big. real big. 119" or nothing.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2341/2284698071_feeaa5deb4.jpg

:thumb:

later.

I don't think that TV would make it up the stairs and around a few corners in my house :(

^ you can bet that TV is a front projection, so it would be fairly easy with a rollup screen and a separate projector.

Here are some rough guidelines to how you should split up your budget.

Half for the TV, half for the audio system. Most people tack on a HTIB at the end, without realizing how much of an impact a good system makes.

Of the audio system components, the subwoofer is the most important. Check out models from SVS, they are amazing bang for the buck. Also, HSU makes some great, relatively inexpensive ones, too. Entry level ones that will hit 25hz and down flat run at least $500.
Next in descending importance are the center channel, fronts, and then the surrounds. You might as well go with a speaker package for these, as they will share characteristics in sound and have better flow between the soundstage of the fronts and that of the fronts and surrounds.
You may want to check out www.aperionaudio.com they are web only, but they get great reviews and have a free 30 day in-house trial.
Also, http://www.av123.com/ is an excellent, low cost speaker company.

As for the display, resolution is not the holy grail. I read somewhere that the black levels (contrast ratio) is the most important aspect of a display, then overall color representation, then resolution. I don't think anything is broadcasted in 1080p yet because of bandwidth issues, but there are other sources, like BluRay, and Xbox 360/PS3. Maybe a few years ago 720p was fine for the long term, but at this point it would be wise to invest in 1080p.
You should compare the two resolutions with good source material in the correct resolutions to see if you see a difference. BUT, there are other factors to consider. Fixed pixel displays, like LCD, have only a set amount of pixels, so no matter if the source comes in at 720p (1280 x 720= 921600 pixels), if you have a 1080p display, all (1920 x 1080 =) 2 073 600 pixels will be lit up with color to display the picture. This is done with an internal scaler. Many TVs have very low quality scalers, and this is why such things as upscaling DVD players exist; a higher quality scaler is in the player, and all the upscaling is done there, feeding the TV a signal which is in its native resolution, thus bypassing its scaler and presenting a higher quality image.
What I'm getting at is if you buy a 1080p TV and only have 720p source material, it will all have to be upscaled and therefore the picture is likely to look worse than it would on a 720p TV.
You can however, buy external scaler which are high quality and would lead to only a relatively very small deterioration in picture quality in the upscaling process.

So, get a 1080p for future compatibility, in anticipation of Blu-Ray becoming as widespread as DVD is now, and use an external scaler to bridge the gap until everything is 1080p.

Remember DVD was first introduced about a decade ago, so if history repeats itself, Blu Ray should be around for another decade until Red-Ray comes along, making the premium of 1080p appear to be a sound investment. It would be a shame to have to downscale all the movies, as well as the TV, eventually, you watch, for the next ten years.

Hope this helps!

In addition to the sub, you'll need tactile-motion as well: http://www.crowsontech.com. They're getting installed by a lot of high-end home-installers ($50k+ systems). I just saw a home-theatre with a $mil rack that used that system. It provides the last link to a realistic experience without requiring too much boomy bass from the subs. They were showing a demo of a rally-car race from inside the car and you can feel the difference in sensation when the car went from tarmac to dirt to grass. Simply incredible!

They're also available as an option on theatre chairs as well. Personally I like the Elite HTS line of chairs. They have a "leather silk" material that feels like... skin. It's not as hard or cold as leather, but very soft and velvety without being furry.

my setup is definetly front projection. its the Sony Black Pearl VW60 1080p projector. combined with a BluRay player and it blows me away. i had no idea a picture that big could look so gooooood. :)

later.

Personally I would never get a TV that wasn't 1080P...but it has nothing to do with whether or not I can perceive the difference between 1080P & 720P.

At some point in the near future one of your video sources will be 1080P. If you've got a BluRay player, it already is. No one in their right mind would want to willingly, intentionally downgrade the performance of their BluRay player...otherwise, why did you buy a BluRay player in the first place? But believe me, eventually you will buy a BluRay player. And eventually your cable box will output 1080P. And then eventually you'll probably want to scale all the rest of your non-1080P sources up to 1080P becuase you're sick of that glitch every time the display loses sync when switching between sources of different resolutions.

Buying a non-1080P TV today is essentially saying "I will be buying another TV within the next 5 years."

Just the topic I'm keeping an eye open for...

So: 37 to 40" (it's what I have room for), 1080p, 120Hz, and doesn't suck for gaming = ... ?

Just the topic I'm keeping an eye open for...

So: 37 to 40" (it's what I have room for), 1080p, 120Hz, and doesn't suck for gaming = ... ?

Samsung and Sharp make great if not expensive LCDs. Check the reviews, search for threads on appropriate forums; your question is common.

Remember, Plasma is still the best for picture quality, in terms of contrast ratio (black levels) and color reproduction. Pioneer Elites are some of the best displays out there.
However, plasma consumes much more electricity than LCD (I think its near 2x), and their glossy screens are less tolerant to ambient light (read: glare).

Remember people, OLCD (organic LCD) is on its way.

Samsung and Sharp make great if not expensive LCDs. Check the reviews, search for threads on appropriate forums; your question is common.

I've seen lots of threads asking the same question, often at gaming sites, and probably 9 out of 10 of them are out of date by now because of the changeover from old to new models available. The rest always have reservations even about their favorite displays, and if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I don't want to be able to complain about a single thing.

Plus, the amount of technical crap (480/720/1080/p/i/LX, upconversion, blah blah blah) has been out of control. I already miss the days when the most important feature was whether or not a TV was Cable Ready.

There's just too much bull**** going on with HDTV... still. It should be all sorted out by now into a buy-anything-and-it'll-kick-ass level of simplicity (choose a price range and size and you'll be good for the next twenty years), but it isn't, and they're talking about the next HDTV standard already.

:crash:

Plasma's on its way out... don't get stuck with obsolete technology... ;


Sorry that this OT discussion continues, but when I see posts like this, I just can't ignore them:

Two questions:

Have you some "inside track" in the display panel industry, or am I missing something? InfoComm just passed and Plasmas are getting thinner, more efficient than ever and continue to dominate the large flat panel (50" and above) market.


please. skip plasma and go big. real big. 119" or nothing.

"Go big?" Really? Well then is you want big, it would be Plasma, Projector or Large Format LED Arrary (Times Square screen size). BTW Sharp's 108" LCD is not even in production yet and Panasonic has been shipping 103" Plasmas for over a year and is now shipping 150". If you are ever in Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas there are 103" Plasmas everywhere!

^^^^ the bigger the better. for me it is 119". when i make the jump to LED i will need a bigger wall :). later.

I went for a Samsung 47" LCD 1080i last year, hooked up with DTV's HD package. We don't really care what's on TV - if it's HD, we'll probably have it on! Yeah, the quality is THAT good! Got the LCD over plasma for the glare factor - we have lots of windows, and the LCD has NO glare. Did NOT get a DVD palyer - last year the DVD/BlueRay battle was still on, and now that it appears that BlueRay has won, I'm waiting for the price to go down. Meanwhile, we have the kids' x-box360 plugged in, which plays DVDs nicely - even in HD.

The Samsung LCD is considered the best on the market right now. Next week that might change

Sorry that this OT discussion continues, but when I see posts like this, I just can't ignore them:

Have you some "inside track" in the display panel industry, or am I missing something? InfoComm just passed and Plasmas are getting thinner, more efficient than ever and continue to dominate the large flat panel (50" and above) market.Yes, I work in the home-entertainment industry and go to the Cedia and EHX shows every year. I have dinner with Runco people all the time. Plasma used to be the only way to get a large screen, LCD has been matching them. One of the highest-quality display manufacturers, Sony, makes LCD panels exclusively.

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/consumers_want_lcd_over_plasma/
http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070205PR201.html

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/DannoXYZ/ComputerTech/LCDplasma3.gifhttp://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/DannoXYZ/ComputerTech/LCDplasma1.gif
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/DannoXYZ/ComputerTech/LCDplasma3.gif
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/DannoXYZ/ComputerTech/LCDplasma1.gif


LCD panel shipments surpassed those of PDPs since August 2006, noted the research firm, adding that LCD shipments rose at a monthly rate of 5%, while PDP shipments plunged by more than 10%.

Shipments of 40-inch range LCD panels jumped from 90,000 units in 2004 to 1.2 million units in 2005, and then skyrocketed by more than six times on year in 2006, the research said.

This is now happening with the 50-inch+ markets as well. Although that is a very small market (less than 10%) of all flat-panel TVs sold. One of the factors in this trend is supply and demand. People are buying flat-panel TVs and monitors like crazy to replace old CRT units. This demand is being met by a tonne of manufacturers. However, many people shy away from plasma due to the screen-door effect and burn-in issues.

On the supply side, plasma TVs are only being made by limited number of factories. So if you're a TV manufacturer and want to make flat-panel TVs, you have a much more plentiful list of suppliers with LCD panels.

The Samsung LCD is considered the best on the market right now.

Cool! I'll take note of that. :thumb:


Next week that might change

... dangit.. :crash:




;)

I bought a 37 inch olevia around the first of the year. it's only 720p, but my PS3 looks good on it.. for 600 i figured I couldn't lose ... it looks much better than my dads 5 year old LCD projection hitachi, which i think needs a bulb.

to the guy who says I'll need 1080p in 5 years I really don't think so, but in that time the tv's will get better and cheaper. so either buy the $1200 tv now and hope it doesn't break within 7 or 8 years(it probably will) or buy a $600 tv now and a better set for $600 5 years down the road.. it all works out, plus the current 720p tvs will accept the 1080p signal, but they do scale it. At 37inch i don't think it's that big of a deal.

I really don't watch the thing that much anyway, I seem to stare at this 14 inch laptop screen alot though.

one more thing at the tv store the colors are always jacked up and side by side comparisons aren't that meaningful .. ant tv you buy will look better in your living room than on the store wall.

Yes, I work in the home-entertainment industry and go to the Cedia and EHX shows every year. I have dinner with Runco people all the time. Plasma used to be the only way to get a large screen, LCD has been matching them. One of the highest-quality display manufacturers, Sony, makes LCD panels exclusively.
Like the exclusive versions that Samsung made for them?


This is now happening with the 50-inch+ markets as well. Although that is a very small market (less than 10%) of all flat-panel TVs sold. One of the factors in this trend is supply and demand. People are buying flat-panel TVs and monitors like crazy to replace old CRT units. This demand is being met by a tonne of manufacturers. However, many people shy away from plasma due to the screen-door effect and burn-in issues.

On the supply side, plasma TVs are only being made by limited number of factories. So if you're a TV manufacturer and want to make flat-panel TVs, you have a much more plentiful list of suppliers with LCD panels.

Burn-in issue:
This is industry rhetoric by the manufacturers and fans of LCDs from an older problem that several manufacturers have solved. And yes, I am in the industry as well. Two manufacturers solved the burn-in issue three generations of plasma introductions ago.

Manufacturing:
Plasma manufacturing is alive and well. The proof are the automated factories in Japan and China that cannot, at times keep up with demand.

Would you like a little motion blur with your LCD now?

Like the exclusive versions that Samsung made for them?

[/COLOR]

Burn-in issue:
This is industry rhetoric by the manufacturers and fans of LCDs from an older problem that several manufacturers have solved. And yes, I am in the industry as well. Two manufacturers solved the burn-in issue three generations of plasma introductions ago.

Manufacturing:
Plasma manufacturing is alive and well. The proof are the automated factories in Japan and China that cannot, at times keep up with demand.

Would you like a little motion blur with your LCD now?

I'm assuming you're talking about Pioneer and Panasonic. This is not true. I bought a high-end Panasonic plasma 3 generations ago and it's got burn-in issues big-time. They are getting better, but to say the problem's been entirely solved is just buying into the plasma manufacturers' marketing. Don't get me wrong, I love plasma and I love my TV, but this issue has not been entirely solved.

IMO the deciding factor between LCD and Plasma should be viewing habits and TV location. If there are windows, and it's daytime, go LCD. Absolutely NO glare, NO reflection. The plastic surrounding the screen may be shiny with reflections, but NOT the screen. Not so with plasma, which may wash out in a bright room. If you have a TV room that's always dark, go plasma - I thought the plasma TVs actually looked better in the store's darkened TV room. Only your lamps will reflect in it!

What 1080p sources are out there now or in the near future? My cable is all 1080i (the box can also be set for 720p, but my TV does the conversion more consistently). Are the new hi-def DVD players outputting 1080p? Or are game systems? Paying extra for a 1080p TV when I don't have a source didn't seem real smart to me (but then again this was only the 3rd TV I've ever bought, and it wasn't my biggest priority).

JB

It depends on how close you sit. Don't make the mistake of buying too big.

I have a 56" 720p that I sit about 7ft away from. It's like watching imax every night and I have to turn my head to see stuff on the other side of the screen. Plus, at that distance, I can already see slight pixelation in a 720p signal.

It depends on how close you sit. Don't make the mistake of buying too big.

I have a 56" 720p that I sit about 7ft away from. It's like watching imax every night and I have to turn my head to see stuff on the other side of the screen. Plus, at that distance, I can already see slight pixelation in a 720p signal.

You mean there are people out there who don't defend their purchases regardless of anything...? :notamused:

Like the exclusive versions that Samsung made for them?I think you misunderstood me, and I could have been clearer. Sony ONLY makes and sells LCD TVs..., zip, nada, zero plasma. And they DO NOT buy their screens from Samsung. In 2004, they created a 50/50 joint-venture WITH Samsung in South Korea called S-LCD. Sony and Samsung picked the executives and board for the joint-venture. This joint-venture doesn't preclude Sony from buying other 3rd-party suppliers for LCD panels however, one of the major ones being Sharp.


I'm assuming you're talking about Pioneer and Panasonic. This is not true. I bought a high-end Panasonic plasma 3 generations ago and it's got burn-in issues big-time. They are getting better, but to say the problem's been entirely solved is just buying into the plasma manufacturers' marketing. Don't get me wrong, I love plasma and I love my TV, but this issue has not been entirely solved.Funny you should should mention Pioneer and Panasonic, I've got one of each. My 5-year old 62" Pioneer 3rd-gen. plasma-screen definitely has a border where watching 4:3 regular TV with the black-bars on the side has caused burn-in. Watching wide-screen videos gives an annoying "drawn curtains" looks with the two sides being of different brightness than the centre. And my 2-year old 47" Panasonic which I use as a game-display definitely has ghosts where the desktop icons typically appear. My next theatre-room will definitely not have any plasma screens, most likely LCD projector.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/DannoXYZ/Parties/superbowl/22WatchingGameS.jpg

What 1080p sources are out there now or in the near future? My cable is all 1080i (the box can also be set for 720p, but my TV does the conversion more consistently). Are the new hi-def DVD players outputting 1080p? Or are game systems? Paying extra for a 1080p TV when I don't have a source didn't seem real smart to me (but then again this was only the 3rd TV I've ever bought, and it wasn't my biggest priority).

JB

This ^^^^ illustrates the point I was making earlier..

This ^^^^ illustrates the point I was making earlier..

Give it about a year