Classic & Vintage - Hate it or Love it

Hey what's up everyone. I had recently just got into fixies and picked up a vintage Raleigh bike frame. Here are a couple of pictures after I had taken off all the unnecessary parts for rebuild.

74561

I'm planning on getting it repainted and up and running before july 4th weekend so any tips or suggestions will help. Thanks for viewing.

Looks like the paint is pretty good already.

Yep, I'd leave the paint alone. If it has nicks, touch it up. That paint scheme gives the bike context in its era; powdercoat makes it just another generic fixie. Keep it as is for your conversion, and years from now, if you decide you want it geared, you can always put it back, and you've got a classic. "Genericize" it now, and it will never be anything other than a generic bike frame.

Hey thanks for the comments guys. I've actually thought about keeping the original paint scheme since everyone I've spoken to and have seen the bike in person/pictures have pretty much suggested the same thing as BlueOrder. Only thing is, for me, there are lots of rusts and paint chips here and there. I guess I wouldn't mind keeping the color only if everything was in "like-new" condition. I try to be a perfectionist and I just want it looking like no other. Any suggestions with clean-up and preserving the original frame?

Here are the other pics btw:

74563

74564

Patrick

Here's what I mean with paint chips and rust all over the bike:

74565

74566

74567

I think the only way to get rid of the rust and nicks is to "genericize" it. Although, I could be wrong...

Apply some naval jelly to the rusty scratches; that'll stop the rust. A Good coat of wax will make it nice and shiny.

Or, lightly sand the rusty spots; fold some sandpaper and use the crease to sand just the rust off. Clean the area thoroughly. Get some Testor's model airplane paints in the little glass jars. You may have to blend a couple to get the right color but it works pretty well. Test on a scrap piece of metal. Spray on some clearcoat. Be sure to get a compatible clearcoat. Again, test on the scrap piece of metal, not the bike. Or, just apply some good carnauba car wax.

If you do decide to repaint it, don't powdercoat. Powdercoat is the devil to remove and if you ever want to convert the bike or heaven forbid, sell it, you'll be much better off with a regular paint job.

That's a decent frame with Reynolds 531 tubing and pantographs and lugs.

Do a search on oxalic acid. Many of us have used it and it will remove all rust, external and internal. Very easy to do.

here's a camera pic of my fixed raleigh. Mine had some surface rust on the chrome parts of the fork but it all came off using a brillo pad. I didn't need to go as far as sanding with sandpaper. I don't know if it'll work on your non-chrome parts however. I was considering painting too but I'm glad I didn't...I like the vintage look of it. I'm thinking of maybe throwing on some chrome fenders.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll136/genebean941/IMAGE_026.jpg

I have a few suggestions:
1) touch up and preserve the original paint;
2) do not do anything irreversible to the frame, such as amputating the derailleur tab;
3) save all of your original parts for potential resale;
4) install at least a front brake, and preferably a rear brake, as well.

Hey good stuff guys. I appreciate the suggestions. I'll definitely look into it. I just hope some of the products will cost less than getting the whole paint job. BTW, roughly, does anyone know how much paint job costs and which hardware stores carry the waxes, clear coats, acids to preserve the bike? I'll do more research on it.

Apply some naval jelly to the rusty scratches; that'll stop the rust. A Good coat of wax will make it nice and shiny.

Or, lightly sand the rusty spots; fold some sandpaper and use the crease to sand just the rust off. Clean the area thoroughly. Get some Testor's model airplane paints in the little glass jars. You may have to blend a couple to get the right color but it works pretty well. Test on a scrap piece of metal. Spray on some clearcoat. Be sure to get a compatible clearcoat. Again, test on the scrap piece of metal, not the bike. Or, just apply some good carnauba car wax.

If you do decide to repaint it, don't powdercoat. Powdercoat is the devil to remove and if you ever want to convert the bike or heaven forbid, sell it, you'll be much better off with a regular paint job.

That's a decent frame with Reynolds 531 tubing and pantographs and lugs.

What's the deal with getting it powder coated and getting a paint job? Sorry, I'm so new to the whole Idea.

...BTW, roughly, does anyone know how much paint job costs .....

A one color with clear coat by someone that knows what they're doing costs about $300 - $350. Powdercoating would look good, and be cheaper.

That being said, I'd try to save the original paint if I could.

Hey, that could be a nice bike. Personally, I'd clean up all the original components and put them back on it. But then I don't like fixies. But you should do what will make you happy. As for rust, that headset will clean up with a can of Nev'r Dull (any auto parts store) and your fingernail or a plastic knife. Thin rust like that on chrome is almost always fixable. Contrary to what you read elsewhere, don't take steel wool to chrome or aluminum parts. You don't need it and it does more damage than good. Use some Nev'r Dull on the rust, rub it well, then use your fingernail or the plastic knife to scrape it abck. Nev'r Dull will make aluminum shine like a mirror. For somewhat pitted non-anodized, aluminum bits, 1500 or 1000 grit wet sand paper followed by... Nev'r Dull, will shine up just about anything. Be very careful with the sand paper on detailed edges.

Karl

I've had good luck with nail polish for touch up. Go to a beauty supply with a good selection; you'll probably find something pretty close. Whatever you use, if you're going to miss a bit on the color it's better to be lighter that the original rather than darker.

If it was me....

1) my first choice would be to do it right-- send it off for a faithful reproduction repaint and reproduction decals. Get the frame stripped, rust removed properly, and properly primed and painted. AND apply framesaver on the inside of the frame.

2) My second choice would be to go to an auto paint & body shop, and get the paint matched. They'll do it for about $40. Two colors like yours would probably be $80, but it looks like you only have nicks on the bue, so it would probably only be $40 for the blue. I'd get some for brush on application, and see if they could put some in a rattle can for me.

I'd also take proper photos of the decals, noting the dimensions and proper position. I'd then commission a new set of reproduction decals.

Meanwhile, I'd apply framesaver on the inside of the frame. Then I'd thoroughly clean the framesaver off the outside of the frame (it gets messy), as part of the prep for painting. I'd remove all rust from the frame, prep the frame properly, prime the bare metal, and do a rattle can job on the large area on the chainstay-- I'd probably just paint the entire chainstay, and blend the touch-up color with the original where the stay meets the dropout and the bottom bracket.

[EDIT: I just took another look at the chainstay, and realize now that I was looking at a chainstay protector, and not damaged paint. So it may be that all you need to do is touch-up work, which could probably mostly be done after assembly (the only exception being if there's a nick you can't reach after assembly). And of course, do the framesaver before assembly.]

Then I'd touch up any spots that I can't reach once the bike is assembled. I'd fill in the nicks with the brush-on paint, let the paint dry for a few days, then fill, let dry a few days, repeat, until the paint has filled the nick. Then I'd sand it level with the surrounding good paint, taking care to blend in the touch-up with the surrounding paint. Buff it out, and it's done.

Then I'd assemble the bike. Once it's assembled, I could take my time replacing damaged decals and touching up the remaining nicks.

3) My third choice would be powdercoat. It's inexpensive, and tougher than paint. The downside is it will take away the unique paint scheme that this bike has. I think powdercoat has its uses, and plan to powdercoat some beaters as well as some touring bikes. But this particular bike is one I would paint, not powdercoat.



And thinking about it, I think my second choice, while more labor-intensive than my first choice, would probably be the best approach, because it preserves the originality of the bike.

If you're serious about getting the bike on the road by July 4, powdercoat may be the fastest. Or maybe touch-up is the fastest, if the powdercoater cant turn it around that fast. A complete re-spray will be the slowest method, however. Personally, I would place the integrity of the bike above getting it on the road by July 4th, but that's just my personal choice. You may have reasons you want it on the road that fast. Still, doing the touch-up approach might get you there, especially if the only thing you have to do before assembly is framesaver and rattlecan the chainstay (and save touching up all the nicks and new decals for after the bike is assembled and on the road-- then you can do it at your leisure.). If I had to get it on the road ASAP, and wanted to preserve the integrity of the bike, this is the approach I would take.

And to second an earlier comment, don't cut anything off the frame, and save all your original parts (if you have them) for the future. You (or somebody else down the line) may appreciate that, even if you don't appreciate it all that much today.

Good luck!

That's a beautiful frame, largely due to the paint scheme (IMO). If you lived closer, I have an old Centurion about the same size that would be great for what you want to do. It's absolutely hideous, so a different paint job wouldn't be a loss of any kind. :lol:

Do the right thing keep the origional paint =). The above suggestions sum up my thoughts about the bike. It looks gorgeos will be a very classy and unique fixie if you keep the 2 tone color scheme. that head badgeis awesome.

Sweet Jesus. Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to run to the store right now and see what I could come across. You guys just talked me into keeping the original color scheme and preserving it. One more thing that I can't seem to find is the type of bike it is. I've looked at raleigh catalogs, possibly under 1983 grand prix models and it just doesn't seem to match. The patent on the bottom says this:

74626

"7AN1409 M"

74627

"Racing Geometry 12 speed 49-107"

Meaning?! :wtf:

Also, I was wondering if whether or not I should "sand-off" or "shave-off" (however that might work) the little "nipple-like" bungs that are sticking out. I'd hate to get injured by it in the future. :roflmao2:

74636
74637
74638
74639
74640

Forgive my bad snapshots, for I am only using my iPHONE.

you can't shave off the shifter bosses, how you gonna put 'em back on when/if you want to sell it? I realize it's not gonna look clean. I think it is ironical to put the shift levers on to cover the bosses, with no cables attached. You know, for joke?

Seriously, hacking off all the braze stuff is what drives these guys apoplectic when it comes to fixie conversions.

Sorry to disagree with the purists. I love Raleighs, but anything from their "seafoam and lilac" era with that much rust is crying, begging to be powdercoated.

I do wonder why folks who want a fixie buy a frame that has braze-ons, though. Someone should make a beautiful little anodized alloy thing that covers the DT shifter bosses elegantly. they could be engraved with "This, too" on the left, and "will pass" on the right.

you can't shave off the shifter bosses, how you gonna put 'em back on when/if you want to sell it? I realize it's not gonna look clean. I think it is ironical to put the shift levers on to cover the bosses, with no cables attached. You know, for joke?

Thanks for you opinion muccapazza. What should I do? I'd rather not leave it hangin' around for no reason. Plus, it'll shave off a couple of pounds or so off the bike as i'm riding. Any suggestions?

As for resale in the later future, if I do, I'm sure all the parts I get will make up for "the shaving off the shifter bosses" since I plan on spending more than the usual. I want the high end stuff! :thumb:

I want the high end stuff! :thumb:

If you want the "high end stuff" why save change on a poor defenseless classic? Why not get a NJS frame or have one handmade by your local framebuilder? Why don't you just go buy a Motobecane Messenger or a Kilo TT, part it out and buy all the high end stuff you want (Which is what? A Sugino 75 craptastic crankset and an Aerospoke front wheel with a Nitto Jag stem and gold risers with Ouri grips? Don't forget the white tires and Turbo saddle!) Then you'll have a new "track" frame and all your fancy parts. It would probably cost less anyways..........

Good point kpug. But suggesting to buy a beautifully finished fixed gear isn't really going to help me here. Even though it might save me time and money, It's still wouldn't be the same as having it put together by your own hands. It's supposed to be a project/hobby with whatever "fancy parts" I so desire.

Aside from already having a fairly decent classic frame, that was given to me for free BTW, I'm fortunate enough to have such a frame with the choice of keeping it original, or giving it a new look. I'm sure you know that this frame, with its high potential of becoming even something better, 'is/will be' just as good as any other frame for a customized fixie.

Thanks for you opinion.

Aside from already having a fairly decent classic frame, that was given to me for free BTW, I'm fortunate enough to have such a frame with the choice of keeping it original, or giving it a new look. I'm sure you know that this frame, with its high potential of becoming even something better, 'is/will be' just as good as any other frame for a customized fixie.

That Raleigh is fairly decent, but not by any means classic. It isn't even an English Raleigh, and at least a few steps down the ladder.

Have fun with your project! :)

OK.........First I'd like to apologize for being snarky.

I do however think you mis-understood what I wrote in my previous response. The suggestion of buying a Kilo or the like specifically......... Lets say you buy said Kilo. Then you part it out to a point. Then you rattlecan, powdercoat, decoupage with comic book strips and clear it to your hearts content. You pick up your replacement parts with the cash +or- some $ from parting it out and voilà! Built and recolored by your own hands. Not to mention it will have ZERO brazeons, proper dropouts for a fixed and the flicky handling that we all love and enjoy so much on the street!
As far as the "just as good" for a fixie comment. What's the definition of good? Road frames typically have lower bottom brackets then track bikes. That pretty much forces you to:
A. Ride slow and cautiously in turns for fear of pedal strike (Been there and done that. Not good.)
B. Be forced to run short cranks compromising fit and personal performance.
I could keep going about it for awhile but I won't. I can say however that a road conversion can be great. I ride one almost everyday. In fact I have 2. Reasons why.........Fender and rack eyelets. I love fenders. They were both 27" and have been converted to 700c so they now have huge tire clearance. Almost zero maintenance. Reliability. I don't have to worry about it falling over and trashing my RD. I live in a flat part of town and don't need to shift. Trackstanding and skidding is fun. Blah, blah, blah. Difference is I picked up 2 frames with no downtube brazeons for shifters and kept every thing else. They are not typically desirable models either (Motobecane Mirage and Schwinn Sprint). Have you checked the prices of anything made of Reynold 531 lately? If the good frames keep getting destroyed what about the hobby ten years from now? Paint is one thing. Grinding things off is another. I know someone who tried to remove shifter bosses off of their frame and ruined it. The steel is kinda thin in the middle being butted and all............
Anyways........Why is this not in the FG&SS forum? And after reading my response here I notice I come off as rude or cranky again.........Sorry. It's late.

I appreciate the insight guys, really. :)

If you want the "high end stuff" why save change on a poor defenseless classic? Why not get a NJS frame or have one handmade by your local framebuilder? Why don't you just go buy a Motobecane Messenger or a Kilo TT, part it out and buy all the high end stuff you want (Which is what? A Sugino 75 craptastic crankset and an Aerospoke front wheel with a Nitto Jag stem and gold risers with Ouri grips? Don't forget the white tires and Turbo saddle!) Then you'll have a new "track" frame and all your fancy parts. It would probably cost less anyways..........

Well played :D

rxtech -
I ride a conversion. I've never injured myself on the shifter bosses, although I did once give myself a small scrape from the TT cable guides.

Don't grind anything off - what's the point? Clean looks? At some point, should you enjoy riding fixed, you may want to upgrade to either a nicer conversion or a nice track frame. You'll be glad you've got something you can either flip to fund your new build or ride around as a road bike.

Yes, it will have a low BB - the only time I had an issue with pedal strike is when I was running 172.5s, which were too long for me anyway.

Don't repaint or powdercoat the frame, it's going to cost you a ton. Looks fine the way it is, anyway. And do you really want to be worried about your fancy paint if you're riding it around town and locking it up? I did a ride up to Nyack and we're sitting in a coffee shop having a snack. Everything else on the rack cost at least 5 times what my bike did - Sevens, Mootses, a Havnoonian, a couple of Cervelos, etc. Someone knocked over a few of the bikes and everyone cleared out of the coffee shop to go see if their baby was OK. I looked outside and said to my friend 'Make sure mine isn't in the street where it'll get run over, OK?' Spend the cash on a decent wheelset instead.

And use spacers on the axle instead of cold setting it, so you can run gears in the back later.

I *love* these threads! Somebody posts about fixifying a marginally classic frame, and the hornets come out of the nest!

Rxtech, y'all should do what you want with the frame- it's your bike and a well-done fixie can be absolutely beautiful. Cut off the dang braze-ons; you can always get clamp-on stuff if you want to go back to geared. And there *are* such things as derailleur hangers. If you want to preserve the frame, give it some framesaver and don't crash it.

Oh, yeah, the "49-107" numbers are the gear inches development with the original crank and freewheel. I learned everything I know from Sheldon Brown: http://sheldonbrown.com/gearing/index.html

IMHO if you're not interested in having a nice classic road bike, then just cut all that stuff off and powder coat it--that way nobody will ever know that it was once a nicer classic and it will irritate fewer people. Just go whole hog and wreck it... it's better than leaving it half-wrecked. I don't see any point at all in preserving the paint just to grind things off later. It's just my opinion. Personally, I wouldn't mess it up, but it's your bike.

Karl

Thanks for you opinion muccapazza. What should I do? I'd rather not leave it hangin' around for no reason. Plus, it'll shave off a couple of pounds or so off the bike as i'm riding. Any suggestions?



Well here's a before and after example from the fixed gear gallery. (http://fixedgeargallery.com/2008/june/4/NathanPike.htm) I much prefer the before, the after wouldn't get a second look from me out on the street. I guess I just dig the "old used patina" of the older bikes. but as was said above, it's your bike, do what you want.

That paint will only be original once. Leave it as it is. It'll be much more interesting (patina and all) than a generic looking powdercoat. Those are a dime a dozen. I'd much rather be able to see the bike's history.

Thanks for the comments everyone. I guess we'll see what happens from here on out. Ciao.

Alright guys, I've made a decision. I know some have explained the importance of keeping it's orginality and that others might frown upon it being "genericized," but many have suggested to do whatever I please. So, therefore, I've decided to powdercoat it, mainly because a couple of my old friends from school, work for a powdercoating company called "American Powdercoating" located here in Bakersfield, CA. They gave me a pretty good deal and many people that i've asked about the company have given me nothing but positive feedbacks about their work. Sorry to disappoint, but it just seems right. As far as loosing it's originality, I guess for me, it's still going to be that very same Raleigh my uncle had given to me.

Anyhow, once again, thank you for your comments. Powdercoated picture results will be up shortly. :)

No particular harm done. I've yet to come across an '86 Raleigh Grand Prix that does not have poorly-finished, soft paint in the first place - and for that matter, the decaling isn't too attractive either.

Good opportunity to apply some earlier Raleigh lettering variants (as stickers, I believe - IIRC, decals do not adhere to p-coat) if you do have it refinished.

-Kurt

THE NEW LOOK: Powdercoated :D

74852 New color scheme.

74853 Makes the decal look even better.

74854 Raleighhhhhh.

74855 Back end.

74856 Original patent code.

74857 No more cable guides.

74858 For them water bottles...

74860 Branded.

74861 Base.

74862 Raleigh fork.

74863 NO more shifter bosses; right.

74864 NO more shifter bosses; left.

I'm very happy with the outcome and I can't thank enough my friend Ric @ Bakersfield American Powder-coating for taking care of it. Hope you guys like it, cause I do.

Thanks for viewing.

*Bump before dinner. :thumb:

holy crap that was fast. i guess that's the best way, like ripping off a bandaid.

:rolleyes:

Yes, nice job, but when will you fixie fellows learn that the headset is supposed to be removed before you paint the thing? Makes it look like a genuine off-the-street, rattle-can paint job from all but close up.

-Kurt

:rolleyes:

Yes, nice job, but when will you fixie fellows learn that the headset is supposed to be removed before you paint the thing? Makes it look like a genuine off-the-street, rattle-can paint job from all but close up.

-Kurt


Agreed, the white headset looks ridiculous. The rest of the bike looks great! :thumb:

Cudak888. They took the fork off and headset and painted it separately. They handed it to me piece by piece. I just asked my friend at the shop to put it for me. I'm getting the original seat post powdercoated as well. It was a 2 day process. Brought it in early morning Thursday and picked it up at 5 before they closed this afternoon. No need to be negative already. Jesus.

ARe you also getting the stem handlebars crank pedals saddlerails hubs rims spokes powdercoated? you're not gonna stop at the seatpost and headset, I hope.

[quote=rxtech06;6961653]Cudak888. I'm getting the original seat post powdercoated as well. QUOTE]

Not the whole thing I hope, or it won't fit.

ARe you also getting the stem handlebars crank pedals saddlerails hubs rims spokes powdercoated? you're not gonna stop at the seatpost and headset, I hope.

No, I'm thinkin about going with a black and white look, for now. White frame, and maybye white oury grips. Otherwise, straight handle bar, wheels, chain, crankset, pretty much everything else black. Yeah it might be two toned, but what the hell. that's just the plan for now. I'm sure i'll change my mind later. One of the reasons why I chose white is because it goes with any color, so we'll see how I feel when the time comes.

Cudak888. They took the fork off and headset and painted it separately. They handed it to me piece by piece. I just asked my friend at the shop to put it for me. I'm getting the original seat post powdercoated as well. It was a 2 day process. Brought it in early morning Thursday and picked it up at 5 before they closed this afternoon. No need to be negative already. Jesus.

I'd bet that he couldn't tighten it down too hard either for fear of damaging the paint. Considering the thickness of powdercoat, I'm left in wonder as to how the cup races, insides of the washers, and threading was masked in entirety without someone going absolutely mad.

Regardless though, it does not aid the appearance of the bike one bit - to see a painted headset the same exact color of the frame is to see something that looks like severe kludge, for it almost always is. Could have least installed a black headset if you were going for the B/W theme.

I don't get the point of powdercoating it, then again, I don't get the point of the whole fixie fashionista thing either.

-Kurt

P.S.: Do realize that the ideas of fixie culture don't particularly jive here at C&V (and mind you, I addressed all fixie builds with my comment), and you might recieve constructive criticism as a result. If you can't take it, we have a forum that will better suit your tastes: Singlespeed & Fixed Gear (http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=178).

Do realize that the ideas of fixie culture don't particularly jive here at C&V (and mind you, I addressed all fixie builds with my comment), and you might relieve constructive criticism as a result. If you can't take it, we have a forum that will better suit your tastes: Singlespeed & Fixed Gear (http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=178).

Word...........

P.S.: I'd thank you not to b@stardize my nickname.

Folks, please do not edit user names when quoting user comments.

it's your bike
but it's your bike
it's your bike, do what you want You know, that's a rather narow view of "property." It's certainly in line with contemporary American thinking, but still a narrow view. The concept of "private property" is itself a recent historical innovation, and even within the framework of "private property," people don't necessarily do whatever they want with "their property."

Some kinds of property are used and eventually discarded as "personal property," in accordance with one's whims. Some people view all property through this lens-- even the land and it's resources.

Other types of property are held in private possession, to be used and enjoyed while one is alive, and then passed on to future generations. Under this view, the person "owning" the property is mindful that the property is not "personal property," but is only held in stewardship, to be used and enjoyed, before being passed on to future generations. Examples of this view of property include the land and its resources, as well as other types of property, such as art.

Who would think it a reasonable use of "property" for a private "owner" to repaint a Van Gogh to suit his whims? The Van Gogh, is, after all, his "property," to do with as he pleases, and yet I suspect that many who unthinkingly put forth the meaning-laden phrase "it's your property" would take nevertheless take offense at the destruction of "property" that is held in stewardship for future generations.

Whether or not it's sacrilege to cut off the downtube bosses, I'd be pretty concerned about weakening the frame at this point - I once tried the same thing on an old 531 frame and was left with two holes and a lot of daylight at that point, plus a scrap frame - lesson learned! I'd suggest buying two domed rubber tap (faucet?) washers at the hardware store deep enough to cover the bosses. Drill the centres out to the right size and put the screws back (slightly countersunk) and no strength is lost - and you won't rip your legs in the event of a tumble.

No holes in the downtube and no rubber bungs! Shows the value of a professional job, rather than an amateur attempt - I take my suggestion back. I thought the green & lilac looked good but the plain white finish is excellent. Is there any reason a fixed conversion can't still be a classic? Not my thing, I'll admit, but back in the 1970's a lot of us British club cyclists only had one frame. We'd put a fixed wheel on (with brakes) for winter riding/training, replace the gears in the spring and add a rack and panniers for touring holidays. Anyway, have fun with it - post some photos when it's built, I'll look out on the SS&FG forum as well, just in case.

Who would think it a reasonable use of "property" for a private "owner" to repaint a Van Gogh to suit his whims? The Van Gogh, is, after all, his "property," to do with as he pleases, and yet I suspect that many who unthinkingly put forth the meaning-laden phrase "it's your property" would take nevertheless take offense at the destruction of "property" that is held in stewardship for future generations.

But this is a bicycle, not a Van Gogh.