General Cycling Discussion - Mountain Lion kills bicyclist

Mountain lion kills bicyclist
A second person also is attacked in Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park.


A mountian lion, similar to this one seen in a file photo, attacked two bicylcists in separate incidents in Whiting Ranch today, killing one.
JEBB HARRIS, THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
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RELATED STORIES
• Timeline of mountain lion attacks in O.C.


The Orange County Register

A mountain lion killed one bicyclist and injured a second this afternoon in separate attacks in Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park, authorities said.

According to reports, the dead victim was found in a ravine after the person’s mountain bike was apparently abandoned on the Cactus Run trail.

The second victim, a woman named Ann, was riding with another woman when the lion reappeared and attacked her. As the lion pulled the victim into a ditch, her friend grabbed her legs and fought a desperate tug of war with the animal.

Another group of mountain bikers arrived and threw rocks to scare away the mountain lion.

"We hit it square with all three rocks," one of the men told KCBS-TV/2.

The injured woman reportedly suffered head and neck injuries and was taken to Mission Hospital.

A 911 call was received at 4:40 p.m.

Trackers and sheriff’s deputies were searching for the lion tonight.

Thursday, January 8, 2004
Timeline of mountain lion attacks in O.C.





Before today, the most significant incidents in Orange County involving mountain lions occurred in 1986 when two children were mauled at Caspers Wilderness Park in separate incidents. In March of that year, 5-year-old Laura Small was mauled, the first attack in California in 77 years. The park was briefly closed. In October, Justin Mellon, 6, was mauled by a lion. The park was closed to children in 1992 after the Small family won a $1.5 million lawsuit against the county. The park was reopened to children in 1995.

Some other incidents involving mountain lions in recent years:

• September 2003: A mountain lion was sighted twice at the Ortega Equestrian Center in San Juan Capistrano, leading state Fish and Game officers to trap and kill the animal in early October.

• August 2003: A mountain lion was suspected when a small dog was attacked in its backyard in Nellie Gail Ranch. The dog had to be put to sleep.

• February 2003: Whiting Ranch Wildnerness Park was closed for 24 hours after a mountain lion was sighted by three different people in one day – a jogger, a biker and a ranger.

• January 2003: A 90-pound mountain lion was shot and killed by a Silverado Canyon resident after he found it attacking two of his goats.

• May 2002: U.S. Fish and Wildlife biologists reported a highly unusual sighting of a mountain lion in Laguna Coast Wilderness Park.

• February 2001: Two mountain lion sightings at Gen. Thomas F. Riley Wilderness Park prompted warnings to students at Wagon Wheel Elementary School from the principal.

• April 1998: A Villa Park woman found a mountain lion standing on her porch after she heard a bang on her screen door. Animal control officers responded and killed the cat after it charged them.

• December 1997: An aggressive female mountain lion charged a group of women and children at Caspers Wilderness Park. No one was injured and the lion retreated after one of the women threw a child's hiking boot at it. A state game warden later shot and killed the lion.

- Compiled by researchers Michael Rosentreter and Michael Doss

Lest we forget that in a natural environemt we are NOT the top of the food chain.

Almost any attack can be thwarted by fighting the animal. Hell, picking up and slinging your bike wildly at it would definitely do the trick.

If you run you immediately register in its brain as "Prey. The normal action of cycling may register as fleeing if you are moving away from the lion and you most likely will not even know one is watching you.

Dealing with any wild carnivore is always a crap shoot.

Dealing with any wild carnivore is always a crap shoot.

True, but it is well known and documented that prey that fights will almost always get away.

True, but it is well known and documented that prey that fights will almost always get away.

I absolutely agree if you fight it, you have a better chance of surviving.

That kinda scary, now im starting to notice that the canyon where I bike has signs all over to watch out for snakes, ticks, dangerous areas in the trail and mountain lions.

Just saw this story on the news.Awful...One moutain biker friend at work feels a need to pack heat.. Think I shall continue to be a roadie..I will take my chances with the wildlife in an urban setting.

6 words--Full Face Hemet......Full Body Armor.....



But in all seriousness, its been proven that your best defense against a mountain lion is a strong offense, unline a bear where you should play dead.

6 words--Full Face Hemet......Full Body Armor.....



But in all seriousness, its been proven that your best defense against a mountain lion is a strong offense, unline a bear where you should play dead.
The news report said the cyclists was with lots of other cyclists.One even threw rocks at the lions head. Would not relent. What defenses do we have ?

I ride in mountain lion country too. However, I'm way way way more worried about the Azzholes on four wheel running me down on the way to the trail than a big cat.

It is a sad story though. Hope the gal pulls through Ok.

Due to the hot housing market, we are encroaching more and more on the mountain lions' territories. There are limited natural game for the lions to prey on so they go for easier/weaker alternatives: livestock, dogs, cats, and HUMANS!

Pound for pound, mountain lions are among the most dangerous wild animals out there. I've seen LOTS of huge lion tracks along a dirt trail in the foothills where I ride. Now I NEVER ride alone on those trails, and definitely DON'T ride offroad during dawn and dusk!!!

http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0816/1618369.jpg

Taken From The Orange County Review

Mountain lion shot dead following fatal attack
A male bicyclist was killed and a woman cyclist was injured today in separate attacks in Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park.


A mountian lion attacked two bicylcists in separate incidents in Whiting Ranch today, killing one.
JEBB HARRIS, THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER


The Associated Press


A mountain lion was shot dead by a sheriff's deputy tonight after two bicyclists were attacked in an Orange County wilderness park – a man was killed and a woman was dragged and injured.

Orange County deputies killed the cat with two shots after locating it 10 feet away from an unidentified body, which the animal had partially covered with dirt.

Bad Kitty. Bang Bang.

We have those bad cats here too-Vancouver island.
One fell through a ladies ground floor apt window near downtown a few years back-she had to lock herself in the bathroom.

They swim fom the mainland to small island to island to here to find mates.

An older fellow I struck up a friendship with told me he had shot 3 while living in the B.C outback with his family. We were drinking so I took it with a pinch of salt (and tequila.)
So a few months later I saw him on a pub patio w\ a young lady-said HI, got an invite-and we started chatting.
The young lady was his daughter, and the conversation (by me) turned to the cat story...
He smiles and says "ya killed 3, fed 2 of 'em of the kids."
His daughter says " ya AND YOU TOLD US IT WAS CHICKEN!"
All I could say was man-you're welcome around my campfire ANYTIME!

YELL, make yourself big as poss, grab a stick and start swinging.
They go for pets and children often. I think one of those cannister airhorns whould be a good thing to carry.

A couple of my friends were riding in CO one time and one of them got a big lead in a long narrow steep walled canyon. The one in back got to witness a mountain lion stalking him from the top of a cliff for about 200 yards until he finally disappeared. He did have to tell me about this AFTER we rode through the same canyon about a year later. I suppose it's just another hazard, I don't know about you guys but I wasn't planning on living forever anyway...

My heart goes out to the dead biker and I hope the other woman pulls through. :(

Remember we are in their territory, it's a risk mtb'ers take. Although I don't want to see anyone else get killed it would be shame if these creatures were hunted to extinction because of our knee-jerk fear.

Also, would bear spray possibly work on a big cat? Assuming of course you could get to it before being killed...

A dose of lead poisoning from a lightweight .40 or 9mm would do the trick. Easily carried in a small holster attached to the handlebars.

Mountain Lion Kills Mountain Biker In Southern California

JANUARY 09, 2004 -- LAKE FOREST, CA (BRAIN)--A mountain lion attacked two female mountain bikers yesterday in Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park, an environmental reserve just across the street from Oakley's Orange County headquarters. One woman was killed; the other airlifted to a hospital, according to local television news reports.

Diego Lopez came across the cat attacking one of the women, he told KABC-TV.

"There was a woman holding the victim by the legs, and the cat was latched onto the victim's face," Lopez said. "I picked up a rock and threw it at the cat and the rock hit the cat right on the side of the head and the cat took off straight ahead and let go of the woman."

Near the scene of the attack, authorities found the body of an unidentified man, also thought to have been killed by the mountain lion in a separate incident.

The approximately 150-pound cat had not been apprehended late last night.

Humans seldom see mountain lions, and are attacked by them even more infrequently. However, environmental factors like drought or wildfires, such as those that recently struck Southern California, sometimes force the cats to search for food in less remote areas.

Read a summary of the local television news story here.

Since 1970 there has been an average of 14 cougar attacks per year on people in the entire U.S. Read more statistics and general information about mountain lions at Topanga Online and the web site of the California Department of Fish and Game .

And for a story off a mountain biker that escaped an encounter with a mountain lion unscathed, click here.

A dose of lead poisoning from a lightweight .40 or 9mm would do the trick. Easily carried in a small holster attached to the handlebars.


hehehHAHA

ya had to do it, didn't ya Sam?

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2752128/detail.html


Authorities shot and killed a 2-year-old male cat hours later near where the man's body was found, and were "pretty confident" it was the animal that attacked, said Steve Martarano, a spokesman for the California Fish and Game Department.

Following Thursday's attack, the 13th such incident in California since 1890, the 110-pound mountain lion was to be taken to a laboratory where a necropsy will be performed.

Shortly after 4:30 p.m. Thursday in Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park, a mountain lion pounced on a woman who was riding a bicycle with her friend, said Capt. Stephen Miller of the Orange County Fire Authority.

The lion grabbed Ann Hjelle, 30, by her head and began dragging her. Her friend, Debi Nichols, began screaming for help and grabbed the victim's legs in a struggle to free her.

I recall as we met the bear on the bicycle trail near Meyersdale, PA. Mama mia, I never was so scared in my life. My knees were trembling for the whole day. Ironically I was born and lived in Siberia for 9 years, and never saw a bear there. I had to see it in the cycling distance from Washington D.C. Hmm... So much about stereotypes.

I knew that the wild life is very seldom attacks the man. Still I could not control my fear then. It was on the subconscious level. Probably many centuries ago the wild life was not so scared of the man and was of more realistic danger.

It was 13th case in this National park for 114 years. For comparison in Chicago more that 500 people are killed per year by other humans. In more than 80% of cases the killer and the victim are either related or acquainted.

Oh no Sam, here we go again!

L8R

a dated article about mountain lion behavior

http://home.inreach.com/kumbach/mtlion.html

I have encountered a few bears while biking and backpacking, but never a mountain lion. All of the bears that I have seen have taken off pretty quick when I yell at them. One bear did break part of my backpack once though when it was sitting outside my tent. When I opened the door of the tent, it had that perplexed look on its face like dogs do sometimes (when they cock their head). It didn't seem scared until I moved out of the tent and a little toward it, then it took off...

While the chances of ever getting attacked by an animal are probably a lot less mountain biking than in the city (dogs), it's probably good to take some precautions, like carrying pepper spray. If you are a smaller than average person (less intimidating), always go with someone else, not alone, make a little noise going around blind corners, and just have common sense.

While you could get attacked, the chances are so slim it's hardly worth worrying about. Unless of course you are on Kodiak Island or something, then you may want to carry a big firearm...

this story strikes an extra cord with me because the trail, whiting ranch, is one that i ride often. you always see the warning signs but since attacks are so rare, you build up a false sense of security. the gal is doing better and supposedly in stable condition now. she was very fortunate her riding companion was so determined and that there were others on the trail close by. they are still unsure if the man was killed by other reason and the lion came to scavage or if he was actually killed by the lion.

as rediculous and crazy as it does sound, i do pack a compact 9mm in my camel pak. you just never know when animals or other humans may do something crazy.

as rediculous and crazy as it does sound, i do pack a compact 9mm in my camel pak. you just never know when animals or other humans may do something crazy.

It is not ridiculous at all Preacher. What IS ridiculous is the fact you may have to keep it a guarded secret from the rangers (depending on thier particular opinions) who would promptly jail you for carrying for your own security.

Not many real threats around the mountains here but if in doubt I always go packin heat.

It's kinda freaky how much this is like one of those low-hype thrillers like The Edge or Ghosts of the Darkness. The cougar killed one person, attacked another, and was waiting for a third in the SAME SPOT when the rangers shot it.

from the Chicago Tribune


A bike rider was attacked by a mountain lion as she rode through a popular Orange County wilderness park Thursday, and the body of a man, who may have been killed by the same animal, was found nearby.

If confirmed, the death would be the first killing of a human by a mountain lion in California since 1994.
Hours later, sheriff's deputies shot to death a mountain lion spotted near where the man's body had been found. They said they were not certain they had killed the animal responsible for the attacks.

Witnesses to the attack on the woman said the mountain lion clamped its jaws around her head and dragged her off the trail before she was rescued by other riders.

"I have never seen anything like this — it was a tug of war between the mountain lion trying to drag her down the ravine by her face" and another cyclist "who had her by the legs," said Mike Castellano, 41, of Dana Point.

Capt. Stephen Miller, a spokesman for the Orange County Fire Authority, who was called to the scene at Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the foothills of the Santa Ana Mountains, said, "It's not unusual to have mountain lion sightings," but this kind of attack "is absolutely incredible."

The woman, who was attacked about 4 p.m., was identified by friends as Anne Hjelle, 30, of Santa Ana. She was taken to Mission Hospital Regional Medical Center in Mission Viejo with cuts.

Hospital officials said she was in serious condition.

Authorities did not release the name of the dead man, whose body was found near where Hjelle had been attacked. It was not immediately clear when and how he had been killed — by the mountain lion or something else.

A witness to the attack on Hjelle, Nils Magnuson, 33, of Long Beach, said he had stopped to investigate an abandoned bike alongside the trail. Moments later, he said, he heard a scream from one of two women riding ahead of him.

When he reached the scene, he saw Hjelle's head in the mountain lion's mouth. "All I could see was her body," he said. "I couldn't see her head at all."

The lion had pulled Hjelle off her bike and dragged her into the brush. Debi Nicholls, Hjelle's riding companion, held on to her legs and screamed. Magnuson and Castellano rushed to help, throwing rocks at the cougar.

"There was a lot of blood," Castellano said. "I jumped down the ravine … grabbed a couple of rocks. I was maybe 10 feet from the lion."

Nicholls said she saw the lion after hearing "a weird scream" from Hjelle. The lion was gripping her head in his jaws — "He stayed right on her," she said.

Nichols said she grabbed Hjelle's leg and hung on as the lion dragged them 30 feet down the hillside. "I kept screaming, hoping someone would hear me," she said. And amid the trauma of the moment, she struggled to reassure her companion: "I told her there was no way I was letting go," Nicholls said.

The body of the dead man was discovered by a sheriff's helicopter farther up the trail, shortly after the attack on Hjelle.

"He was not with the group," Miller said, "and had possibly been there anywhere from a multitude of hours to a multitude of days. He appears to have been killed by the same mountain lion."

Wildlife experts, however, said that it was unclear whether the man had been killed by the lion. They said it was possible that the lion had come upon the body, then attacked Hjelle to protect what it considered its food.

Late Thursday, a healthy 2-year-old, 110-pound male lion was shot and killed by sheriff's deputies, said Steve Edinger, assistant chief in charge of five counties for the Department of Fish and Game. The animal was spotted 50 yards from the man's body — which, as is common with mountain lion prey, had been partially buried.

Authorities continued to search in the area, in case the mountain lion responsible for the attacks was still alive.

If it is confirmed that the man was killed by a big cat, authorities said, it would be the first such death in Orange County.

Cougar attacks on humans are rare. Wildlife experts say that the animals tend to be timid, elusive and frightened by humans and that they attack only when sick or famished.

Mountain lions are no strangers in Orange County's canyons and wilderness parks. In 1986, two high-profile attacks at Ronald W. Caspers Wilderness Park fueled a debate over lifting a moratorium on mountain lion hunting.

In March of that year, 5-year-old Laura Small was hiking in the park with her parents and 9-year-old brother. The family had paused beside a shallow stream next to a nature trail when Laura's mother saw a cat grab her by the head and drag her into the bushes. A stranger hit the animal with a stick, forcing it to drop the girl. Laura's head and face were severely injured, and she remains blind in one eye and partially paralyzed.

Seven months later, Justin Mellon, 6, was attacked while hiking with his family.

The park was closed to children for more than 10 years after the attacks.

Fish and Game officials recorded only nine mountain lion attacks on humans between 1919 and 1995, including two women killed by mountain lions in 1994 at Cuyamaca Rancho State Park east of San Diego and Auburn State Recreation Area northeast of Sacramento.

Experts who study the animals, however, say that mountain lions are beginning to see humans as prey.

"God, this is horrible. This is exactly what I've been predicting," said David Baron, author of "The Beast in the Garden," an examination of ominous changes in the big cats.

As homes are built in or next to wilderness areas, "mountain lion behavior is changing in some very worrisome ways," said Baron, now a visiting scholar at Boston University. "As the cats adapt to suburban life, mountain lion attacks, while still very rare, are much more common than they were 10 or 15 years ago."

Many residents of the area have been unsettled by recent mountain lion sightings.

Residents of nearby rural Modjeska Canyon have seen mountain lions and lost livestock to them in the last two months. The most recent attack was last Friday. Modjeska is a few miles from Whiting Ranch; cougars have ranges of as much as 100 miles.

Among those reporting attacks was resident Jenny Richards, who on Saturday found that her goat had been killed, dragged a short distance and partially buried.

Even residents who have not seen mountain lions in the area were upset by Thursday's attack.

Betsy Sagey, 43, a Portola Hills resident whose property borders Whiting Ranch, said she had seen posted signs warning that mountain lions are unpredictable and that attacks can happen. The absence of recent attacks, however, creates a false sense of security, she said.

"When you're out there hundreds of times and nothing happens, you think nothing's going to happen," she said.

Susie Brown of Trabuco Canyon, a mountain bike rider who knows both Hjelle and Nicholls, offered a similar thought. "We feel so safe in the mountains because we go there so much," she said. "Now we're going to be nervous about it."

After the first person it must have decided it was a sort of feeding spot :/ . I thought animals attacking people was a pretty freak occurences, but after seeing all those articles kinda changes my mind. Closest I ever came to something like that was a bear on the trail, but it ran away.

Really hope the woman does ok.

i'd rather go to jail for carrying than lose my life to a mtn lion or whatever from not having it with me.

they're thinking that the lion killed the first man as a meal and attacked the lady second in protection of that meal. mtn lions have a habit of coming back to it's kills so the rangers staked out where the mans body was and sure enough the lion appeared and they but him down.

Link to an article about Mark Reynolds, the man killed by the Cougar (http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=5721) . Local news is that the chain on his bike was broken, and that he was presumably attacked while working on it.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/01/09/mountain.lion/index.html
:eek:

My heart goes out to the dead biker and I hope the other woman pulls through. :(

Remember we are in their territory, it's a risk mtb'ers take. Although I don't want to see anyone else get killed it would be shame if these creatures were hunted to extinction because of our knee-jerk fear.

Also, would bear spray possibly work on a big cat? Assuming of course you could get to it before being killed...

They will just kill lions that kill/attack humans. They outlawed hunting them here, so as their numbers increase, there are lions that are driven out of territories by older lions, they have to go somewhere, so they end up nearer to where we live. Some communities in So. Cal can't even let their dogs outside anymore, and the lions can watch the dogs playing with another prey, children.
Biologists say lions don't like much resistance, so fight back. I've only seen one in the wild, and it was a cub. I got VERY nervous that I couldn't see"Momma".

After the first person it must have decided it was a sort of feeding spot :/ . I thought animals attacking people was a pretty freak occurences, but after seeing all those articles kinda changes my mind. Closest I ever came to something like that was a bear on the trail, but it ran away.

Really hope the woman does ok.

There's stories that some animals develop a "taste" for human blood if they ever have it. I figured it was movie stuff, and the idea that it attacked the woman to protect the man it had killed sounds more likely.

Lest we forget that in a natural environemt we are NOT the top of the food chain.


I make certain I carry the necessary tools,skills and mindset to be at the top of the food chain. I refuse to be cat food.

I make certain I carry the necessary tools,skills and mindset to be at the top of the food chain. I refuse to be cat food.

Now that is a smart biker. Be prepared for anything and hope to encounter nothing.

I'm there with ya dude.

I make certain I carry the necessary tools,skills and mindset to be at the top of the food chain. I refuse to be cat food.
Not so certain that you would have time to use the tools/skills or mindset
if you were attacked. not to say that you are slow or anything but
big cats are stealthy and usually will pounce to attack, by the time you
realize your in danger its too late.

Marty

Sneaky.. and they want an easy meal-not a fight. Carry a big bowie knife on your hip...go primal. What choice do you have? Just REALIZE you're in their hood and be wary, be prepared. Watch your kids when camping, keep together on the trail, make noise.

The amazing thing is that there are not more attacks. My brother did some work out in CA on a development and it was out in reasonably rough country but pretty close to houses. He said he sometimes saw this mountain lion watching him from a hill top. It was always from a respectable distance and the lion never made any attempt to get close enough to rush him. She just sat there and watched. My brother figured she was just curious as to what he was doing and never gave it a great deal of thought.I suspect she went after the mule deer that were plentiful in that area.

My aunt lived in Hidden Hills CA and she said that whenever there were extensive wild fires in the area all sorts of wildlife would come out of the hills and hang out. They would find deer in their yards and things like that. Often a mountain lion would come down and make its way by killing and eating pet dogs and then go back up into the hills. Most of the time they were never even seen. They would just jump over someone's fence at night, kill the pooch devour it or make off with it.

Mountain lions are extremely wary and elusive. You can live in lion country all your life and never even glimpse one. I suspect that they see us far far more often then people sees them.

From my readings, it seems as if mountain lions have a definite fondness for attacking people who are not really paying attention to their surroundings. I guess they like taking things by surprise. That makes sense. I have read of joggers getting attacked from behind. I would think that acting wary and alert would help matters. Of course, attacks on people are so rare as to excite a great deal of comment. I believe that the vast majority of lions go about their lives killing deer, rabbits, and dogs and never even consider attacking humans.

But another thing is that even so lion attacks are extremely rare. You are much more likely to get killed driving to the ride then getting killed and eaten by a mountain lion.

Now lions and bears are different in their attacks. Most bear attacks are "defensive" in nature. The bear and a person kind of bump into each other and the bear "defends" itself sometimes with fatal consequences to the person. Bears have been known to make predatory attacks but that is rare. Their predatory attacks are pretty characteristic. They act curious and follow the person around until they decide that they are indeed a potential food item. Lion attacks seem to be 100% predatory in nature. Lions also seem to prefer to attack by surprise. I suspect that most people don't even see the intial attack coming and they first become aware of the lion when it grabs them. I would think that given their seeming fondness for surprise attacks that if you see a lion nearby, you could probably discourage a possible attack by making a lot of noise and throwing rocks at them.

The case cited in this discussion is really curious. There were two incidents and close together. I wonder if the animal made one successful attack and decided to keep after this novel prey. The thing is that if a lion attacks a person, they usually get killed or at least aggressively hunted. For whatever reason, these cats are quite capable of killing people but they very rarely attack people and by in large do not pose a significant threat. Still, it doesn't hurt to be wary when you are in the neighborhood now does it?

Glad the only thing we've got to lookout for are snakes, spiders and other nasty insects in Australia when riding in the wilderness. We've got better chance of running over sheep or cow dung here than running into a man eating creature.

Come to think of it, the biggest killer in Australian outback when riding a bike is getting lost and dying of dehydration, then we become food for dingoes, ants and flies.... :(

Overcrowding, fires, shrinking natural habitats, encroaching human recreation activity (fresh or renewed), etc...these are all things that add to the likelihood of animal attacks in what used to be remote areas for humans. I hate it when this type of encounter occurs, but:
There is an inherent risk associated with existance and that is at any given time, regardless of location, health, and preparedness, you might die.
If I were crossing a street and was hit and killed by a motorist, why don't the cops go out and shoot the nearest drivers? You know, just to make sure they don't get a taste for hit-and-runs? Going out a putting slugs into mountain lions is a bit over the top. How about shutting down the trail? Do a bit of research on the animal/environment? Telling people going out on a trail within a lion-populated area that there is a risk while travelling this trail. Mountain lions on a trail? Hey honey, grab the kids! C'mon people...
And guess what: if that sucker gets attacked, so be it.
By no means am I saying that these people deserved to be attacked and killed; not at all. But people need to realize that we are not immortal and whether we want to remember this or not; we are subject to the hunger of other inhabitants of this planet when we enter into their realms.

Going out a putting slugs into mountain lions is a bit over the top.

Attacking full grown humans is not normal behavior for mountain lions. The problem is that the population density of the cats is too high and it has been too long since hunting them has been legal in California. Some have lost their fear of humans. Sensible game management is important for both human and mounatin lion survival.

Sensible game management is important for both human and mounatin lion survival.
As is sensible human management.

Going out a putting slugs into mountain lions is a bit over the top.

Naw, as long as the slugs are no larger than about .30 caliber you are OK. Now hunting mountain lions with say...a 460 Weatherby Magnum or a 375 H&H would be over the top.

Use the right size slugs if your gonna shoot em', like I said before a .40 or 9mm would suit the purpose well as far as self defense goes. But I'd hunt them with a .270, 7mm or 300 magnum since most likely it will be a long range shot.

I doubt Cougar is very good eating so I'd just have it stuffed in a stalking pose for the living room.

Cougar victim was former CTS employee
By Velonews Interactive
This report filed January 10, 2004

The mountain biker killed by a mountain lion Thursday in in the Orange County foothills was a former employee of Carmichael Training Systems in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

Mark Reynolds, 35, worked for CTS from May 2001 through August 2002 before moving to California to work as an account executive with OMS Sports in Anaheim, according to the Colorado Springs Gazette.

In interviews with the Gazette and the Los Angeles Times, friends and co-workers described Reynolds as a committed athlete who raced both bicycles and motocross, and Chris Carmichael was no exception.

Recalling spotting bike tracks in about six inches of snow one day, Carmichael told the Gazette, "I remember thinking, 'What guy is riding his bike on this day?' At the bottom of the canyon I looked up, and it was Mark."

OMS President Fred Bramblett, meanwhile, told the Times that he was "numb."

"I can't begin to tell you the amount of grief and pain our company and clients are suffering right now," Bramblett said. "This is so unreal. Mark was a very loyal, very hard-working employee here at OMS Sports and will be sorely missed by all of those he came across. Such a tragic, tragic event."

The attack on Reynolds was the sixth fatal mauling of a human by a mountain lion in California and the first since 1994, according to the Times.

Deputies said Thursday night that they shot and killed the 110-pound mountain lion responsible for the attacks, but on Friday they weren't taking any chances. For now, they will shoot to kill any mountain lion they encounter near the trail, Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino told the newspaper.

Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park, in the foothills of the Santa Ana Mountains, will remain closed indefinitely.

By Friday morning, investigators told the Times, they believed they knew how the attack unfolded. About noon Thursday, the chain broke on Reynolds' bike, putting the Foothill Ranch cyclist near a stalking mountain lion. Authorities said Friday that when Reynolds crouched to fix his bike, he assumed a posture that probably spurred the lion to attack.

The lion dragged him off the trail, and Reynolds' body went undetected until late Thursday afternoon, authorities said.

Thursday afternoon, the cougar, protective of its now partially buried prey, mauled another passing biker. Anne Hjelle, 30, of south Orange County was rescued by her riding companion and other trail bikers as she was being dragged by the head into the brush. She remains hospitalized in serious condition.

Wildlife experts estimate that there are 4,000 to 6,000 adult mountain lions in California, including about half a dozen in the Whiting Ranch park area. Attacks, though, are rare. Reynolds is the first fatality in Orange County.

"Often [cougars] are reclusive and don't want to be seen," Doug Updike, a senior wildlife biologist with the California Department of Fish and Game, explained to the Times. "It's very abnormal behavior. You're more likely to be struck by lightning" than attacked by a mountain lion.

Updike pointed out, though, that Reynolds was alone when he was attacked, as are nearly all victims of cougar maulings. And he was probably crouching - a posture, he said, that can convey weakness to a stalking cat.

Mountain-lion experts say that while the animals generally stay away from humans, they are more likely to attack small prey, such as a person in a crouched position. To a cougar, the difference between a person bent over fixing a bicycle and a small animal may be indistinguishable.

And wildlife experts say that increased development in wild areas has made such incidents more likely. "You have more people living and recreating in lion habitat," Updike said. -Factiva, The Los Angeles Times and Colorado Springs Gazette contributed to this report.

Well, you really can't find "fault" in a situation like this. This is a tragic incident and rare from the sounds of it. Interestingly enough it's easy for anyone to be an arm chair quarter back and say what they would have done in a situation like this, but the fact of the matter is adrenaline along with fear factor kicks in. People behave strangely under extreme circumstances (the best example was 9/11 when people were literally jumping from the towers to avoid the fire and smoke) It's hard to say what some people reactions could be under those kind of conditions. If the bike rider was crouched down he probably never saw it coming and wasn't even prepared or even have enough time to react. I kinda liked the post that said something to the extent of riding in the concrete/suburban city jungle.

They will just kill lions that kill/attack humans. They outlawed hunting them here, so as their numbers increase, there are lions that are driven out of territories by older lions, they have to go somewhere, so they end up nearer to where we live. Some communities in So. Cal can't even let their dogs outside anymore, and the lions can watch the dogs playing with another prey, children.
Biologists say lions don't like much resistance, so fight back. I've only seen one in the wild, and it was a cub. I got VERY nervous that I couldn't see"Momma".

That is what happens, momma kicks the kids out and they have to find new territories. So a young lion finds a place with lots of trails in it. He hasn't hunted much, so he is willing to try new things. Everything is pretty new to him. It is pretty natural for him to give hunting people a shot.

It isn't like mountain lions are a new thing in CA. The incidents I mentioned were from years past.

I think a number of things have contributed to the rise in mountain lion attacks on people in the west. People are penetrating the habitat far more for recreational purposes and often on foot and alone. Lions love picking off solitary prey. Lions are not hunted anymore. I don't think hunting affected their population much unless it was really intense but it did tend to make them wary of people. Also you get places now where residential areas are now poking into traditional habitat. This means more potential human/lion interaction. However, given the fact that these animals routinely kill human sized prey, it is rather surprising that there are not far more incidents. I bet that most of the time the cats will see people and not bother them. I have been in grizzley country and seen extremely fresh sign of the animals but never seen one myself. I figure the bear knew the trail and knew how to keep the people from seeing him.

Here in FL we have shark attacks over by Daytona Beach and they kick up a fuss. By "shark attack" I mean someone gets a serious bite. The sharks over there are not really capable of swallowing a person. It seems that most attacks are caused by the shark chasing bait fish and running into a human's leg in the turbid water with their mouth open in mid attack. I have seen aerial photographs taken off the beaches and there are literally dozens of sharks out there stacked up like cord wood. Given the number of sharks out there, you would think that there would be dozens of attacks per day rather then maybe a dozen per year.

These news stories sometimes go way too far trying to convince us that anything but the lion's aggression is the cause of these killings. Anything to avoid giving the "misimpression" that lions who live among human beings might sometimes hunt them.

The story from Velonews in particular was rich. Quote: "To a cougar, the difference between a person bent over fixing a bicycle and a small animal may be indistinguishable."

Yeah, right. A mountain lion who's seen people all his life can't tell the difference between a human being, with his biking clothes, his helmet, and his bicycle and a rabbit.

After the poor cougar was so surprised to find himself killing and eating a person instead of a rabbit with a big yellow nylon jacket, we're told that the second attack wasn't predatory either. Quote: "Thursday afternoon, the cougar, protective of its now partially buried prey, mauled another passing biker."

Sure, to the untrained eye the cougar's fastening onto the head of this screaming woman and dragging her into the brush might seem like a predatory attack. And, yes, you might get the idea that the cat seemed possessive of the wiggling corpse when it played tug of war with the other woman-- the other woman it ignored. In fact, though, the poor confused cougar was just defending its first kill. See?

Then, of course, we have to take into account how this biker was asking for it. Why else would the story contain this helpful line?: "Updike pointed out, though, that Reynolds was alone when he was attacked, as are nearly all victims of cougar maulings."

Yes, it's sad this guy was killed-- or "mauled", as the story says-- but if you're going to go off alone into a public park you have to expect to be killed and eaten. Especially when the mountain lions can't tell the difference between human beings and "small animals".

Let us not forget, either, the "root causes" of this sort of thing. Quote: "You have more people living and recreating in lion habitat" Of course, this lion was only two years old, and you'd have to guess that this park has been the habitat for recreating human beings a little longer than that, but if the park service understands property rights a little differently than the rest of us, who are we to argue? They're the experts after all.

Of course, even the story can't hide the truth altogether. If the cougar was just confused, and then just anxiously defending itself, why would the park service shoot it? Hmmmnnn....

All the usual eco-brainwashing aside, the article does accurately point out that these attacks are uncommon. Still, the danger from lions when you're in lion habitat is real. To refer to the favorite comparison of the friends of maneaters everywhere, lightning too is an uncommon threat. But if you're camping outdoors in a thunderstorm you'd better take it seriously.

The cause of this sort of attack is actually simpler than all of the speculation about body language, urban planning, and all the rest we always get in these stories. Lions are dangerous animals. They're powerful, aggressive predators. They don't usually hunt human beings, but they're smart and adaptable. So, if enough lions live among people, some lions are going to find themselves curious about these fat, numerous, dopey, inattentive, and slow creatures. A few of these attacks, and in increasing numbers, are inevitable as lions' numbers increase. Unless people avoid public parks altogether, stop keeping pets, and stop taking their children on hikes, lions are going to attack people now and then.

Are we willing to live with that?

It's a question we need to answer. But news stories like the one from Velonews aim to bully us into thinking we don't have to make any such choice.

In the past two months on the American River Trail I've seen 2 different bobcats (a real nice one last week near Beales Point), a few raccoons, a whole bunch of coyotes, more deer than I can shake a stick at (there are two beautiful 4 point bucks at Mississippi Bar), and every jack rabbit ever born. Last night I'm 98% positive I saw a 50 to 60 pound young lion in the dredge tailings on the Folsom side of Lake Natoma, probably 40 feet off the trail at 8pm. Caught the yellow eyes (coyotes shine yellow too) with the HID lamp off to the side, pulled around the beam and there he/she was just sitting there. I had the light on 'em for about 2 seconds while my mind went coyote? bobcat? golden retriever? $HIT!!! First lion I've seen in 12 years. He never moved, but, needless to say, I continued on. I ride the trail a lot at night, I've always had a fixed handlebar headlight until the last two months, I've been amazed at all I missed. There are warning signs on the trail, but you just never really think they are there. I don't know if I should reconsider the risks or not, maybe pepper spray wouldn't be a bad idea. I would have no qualms with carrying a handgun, but there is no place to put it that it would ever be accessible in time. I don't think the nine-in-the-jersey look will go over here :D , Idaho yes, SacTown, ah no. Funny, the largest rattle snake I've ever seen was right smack in the middle or the trail, pulling the hill just before Folsom Prison, no way I was runnin' over that guy, but after the initial spook, I never think about all the snakes that are out there. I really thought it more likely to run into a bear than the big yellow cat, guess I'll just wait on that one. I've run into bears hiking many times, including grizzlies in Glacier National Park and never had to be more than just cautious. I do agree that the lack of hunting pressure is not good for our encounters. The worst bears are the bears of Yosemite and I think it's largely due to them never having any interaction with humans who wish to mount them on the wall.

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending upon your outlook, this is just more population adjustment. With the lack of intelligence within the department of wildlife and the housing commission these problems will continue to occur. We continue to build and build and build and sprawl out into the wilderness you have to expect the worst.... by going back into the food chain. I go out into the wilderness all the time. I assume the responsibility and the possibility that one day I will hit a major snag.