Road Bike Racing - Benefits of sprint training?

I'm no sprinter. I'll never motivate a bicycle fast enough to outsprint a decent sprinter on any level.
But I'm going to start sprint training now for a several reasons:

• My base fitness is such that I'm now hanging on fast rides and races until the end. Before now, sprinting was sort of a moot point, I wasn't there at the end.

• The last couple of fast group rides I did I felt like one of the stronger guys on the ride, but wasn't happy with the finish. In both instances I felt that having more snap/and or ability to withstand lactic acid in my legs would have made a big difference.

Will sprint workouts help me with those last items? I would guess it would.

Also: suggested sprint workout for a guy with big base miles/good fitness/no sprinting mojo?

I don't want to win the Green Jersey boys. But I do want enough snap to grab the key wheel at the end. Today for example I think having more capacity to endure lactic acid might have helped me stay on the group up the final climb, I got dropped on a slightly steeper section .3 miles from the hilltop finish. What killed me is after I got dumped I tempo'd up the hill pretty good. Oh well.

Planning on one sprint workout each week. Thanks in advance you intractable Road Nazi scum you.

Throw in a few sprints on a ride you normally do. Sprint to a lamp post during a training ride, or to other objects a little bit off.

If you have a slight downhill, use it to get up to speed, and then sprint your heart off at the bottom of the hill. Get your HR back to snuff for a bit, then rinse and repeat.

I think sprint training is a waste of time. For you. When is the next Prospect you're doing?

:)
cdr

I think I'll regret this but seriously you should do stuff that makes you work to accelerate. You have tons of ftp power, 300 or more if I recall. You can annihilate me at a Prospect with my 200w ftp (or Harlem or wherever). The one thing you need is acceleration. I'm guessing you're really efficient in a small range of rpms. You need to expand that, to widen your usable rpm range. This way you can jump and accelerate a bunch without ending up outside your "good" range of rpms. I think some of the following would help:
- alternating big/low gear sprints. Big ring x 12, x16. Same stretch of road, so either turn around or do a short loop.
- big gear rolls - 53x12 seated for 10 min, 60 rpm, slow.
- little gear spinout - 39x17 or whatever is a straight chainline gear, spin out as fast as you can. Fixed flywheel gear spins would be good too.
- core work and "pull up on the bars" work - bent over rows, lat pull downs, curls with bar twisted 90 deg, dead lift, etc.

to endure lactic acid

If you're looking for lactic acid practice, try some WRI's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/CetaWin/Working%20Out%20Icons/Barbell.jpg

Hamster says squats, leg presses and lunges are your friend.

What's a WRI? Another UIA (Utterly Indecipherable Acronym)?

Can't do that type of lunge/squat weight training in the summer when I'm riding. Plus my cartilage-less right knee really gets cranky as a result.

I think sprint training is a waste of time. For you. When is the next Prospect you're doing?

:)
cdr

I think I'll regret this but seriously you should do stuff that makes you work to accelerate. You have tons of ftp power, 300 or more if I recall. You can annihilate me at a Prospect with my 200w ftp (or Harlem or wherever). The one thing you need is acceleration. I'm guessing you're really efficient in a small range of rpms. You need to expand that, to widen your usable rpm range. This way you can jump and accelerate a bunch without ending up outside your "good" range of rpms. I think some of the following would help:
- alternating big/low gear sprints. Big ring x 12, x16. Same stretch of road, so either turn around or do a short loop.
- big gear rolls - 53x12 seated for 10 min, 60 rpm, slow.
- little gear spinout - 39x17 or whatever is a straight chainline gear, spin out as fast as you can. Fixed flywheel gear spins would be good too.
- core work and "pull up on the bars" work - bent over rows, lat pull downs, curls with bar twisted 90 deg, dead lift, etc.

Thanks for the feedback. I have a reasonable FTP/aerobic capacity/recovery. I need more snap/acceleration. I think the training to get the latter may well help with those high causality lactic situations like the one that caused me to lose the wheel on the climb today. I was in a 39 x 21, seated, the guy I was chasing was in a 39 x 19 or 17 standing, my legs were screaming too much to respond. I distinctly recall making the observation that my lungs had the headroom for that next effort at that particular moment, my legs were simply too wasted.

You've not heard of WRI yet? Even so it's been plastered all over the race forum? *shakes head*
WRI (waterrocket interval) = going 1 minute with all you got, while trying to rip the cleats off and break the cranks during the initial acceleration.

I asked a somewhat similar question a few days ago and the answers I got was to train leg speed. Meaning, start at 90-100 rpm and wind the gears out to 130-140rpm out of the saddle at full power.

Leg speed = snap

Thanks Scummer. I do like the Self Loathing implied by your BF User Name, you get major Pcad Cycling Zen Points* for that.

*PCZP can be redeemed for valuable prizes! Check here often for details.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=394029&highlight=wri

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=394029&highlight=wri

Thanks ELJ. Sadly we have to deduct 5 PCZP from your account for winning that TT.

There's no Self Loathing in it and it for you and it made me feel slower while adding no actual Self Loathing to my day.

If you ever find yourself in a position to win, and you're not solo, you're going to have to sprint. The goal is not to become the best sprinter, just to become better than the guys with you in the break. While I'm a 3rd-place field sprinter, get me into a fast breakaway, and I can probably kill all the guys in there.

You might dig up "Training Tips for Cyclists and Triathletes," where there's an article entitled "You can't win if you don't sprint," and discusses sprint training for non-sprinters (Hincapie is covered in the article). The article also originally appeared in Velonews 28 no. 13 (1999).

Anyway, if your fitness is rounding out, plateauing a bit, hit sprints once/week. If you can do drag races with someone who sprints a little bit faster than you, all the better.

Thanks for the feedback. I have a reasonable FTP/aerobic capacity/recovery. I need more snap/acceleration. I think the training to get the latter may well help with those high causality lactic situations like the one that caused me to lose the wheel on the climb today. I was in a 39 x 21, seated, the guy I was chasing was in a 39 x 19 or 17 standing, my legs were screaming too much to respond. I distinctly recall making the observation that my lungs had the headroom for that next effort at that particular moment, my legs were simply too wasted.

Careful with the knees PCaddy. CDR's advice is great for someone with no history of knee crap, but the low cadence stuff really hurts me. I've got a good enough sprint and can train it well enough using high cadence explosive efforts. Trying to stomp my 53x12 up from 5mph causes suffering that impacts my training in a negative way. Granted I've had a lot more slicing and dicing done than you have, but you've got a lotta miles on me ;)

Sprints and weights might help spare you from being outgunned by a 15 year-old junior track racer like I did today.

My riding has actually come pretty far this year. I've been able to hang the past 4 attempts in the front 6-10 guys on this one tough local Sat ride where I was consistently getting dumped from 2005-2007 (the guys driving that train are Cat 2/3/talented vets). I'd like to see if I can punch through this barrier and add that snap before the season's over. Right now my legs are utter toast from hard rides Sat/Sun. I'll probably take tomorrow off, intervals Tuesday, easy MTB day Wed, sprints Thurs.

The biggest reason I don't race more is there's too much driving involved. I get a lot of fun and fitness out of chasing the local racer dudes on rides like Nyack and the Hump. I'll be racing again pretty soon though. I'd be much more motivated to race if I had that snap. I'll never get a result or be a valuable team mate without it. My team needs help leading out at the end of races. Gotta have snap for that. We executed a team tactic lead out perfectly @ the mid ride Nyack Ride smokestack sprint today, it worked, our man Nelson took it after a perfectly executed three team mate lead out. Just a training exercise, but that was pretty cool. It would be even cooler in an actual race, but of course those are a bit faster.

pcad- weren't you at the PP Cadence series this past weekend? i saw a couple Global Locate jerseys in the cat 4 race. i was thinking that one of them might have been you.

I have a little different take on this coming from the Oval world. A couple of simple principals to apply when you do speed work:

Be rested, don't short yourself on Rest between sprints. At the extreme doing match sprint work we used to go sit down for 10 to 15min between 200s. A corollary, don't do too many sprints, its all about quality. 2 hard > 5 half assed.

Second is overspeed. The best way I've found is to sprint behind a motor, if that isn't an option find a very slight downhill, one that gives you an extra 3 to 5 mph, but stay in the same gear you would normally use. Another track example, you can turn say an 11.8 200m you have a motor pull you to 11.0 same gear. A few overspeed workouts and you are faster.

i saw a couple Global Locate jerseys in the cat 4 race.

no you didn't

During the season...big gear stomps from low speed until you get on top of the gear.

Off-season...plyometrics. Build that explosive power.

During the season...big gear stomps from low speed until you get on top of the gear.

Off-season...plyometrics. Build that explosive power.

Don't do plyo on a bad knee.

During the season...big gear stomps from low speed until you get on top of the gear.

I've been doing these lately. Start at 3 mph and go for 10 seconds in a 53 x 14, 13, or 12. Lots of noise from the bike (creaking, etc) for the first couple of strokes. Or maybe that's from my knees :lol:

no you didn't

my bad :o


perhaps it was the pro/123's?


:)

Here's a good sprint workout that I use...

6 x SCR @ 120 RPM - 3' rest between each - 3 x BCR 53:17/1/15 - 4' rest between each - 1 x BCR 53:13

or another...

3 x 1' AC (all out for 1 minute) - 5' rest between each - 3 x 30" hard sprints - 5' between

I tend to vary between uphill and flat sprints becuz you run into both in typical RRs or group rides.

my bad :o


perhaps it was the pro/123's?


:)


:lol: yeah

I'm no sprinter. I'll never motivate a bicycle fast enough to outsprint a decent sprinter on any level.
But I'm going to start sprint training now for a several reasons:

• My base fitness is such that I'm now hanging on fast rides and races until the end. Before now, sprinting was sort of a moot point, I wasn't there at the end.

• The last couple of fast group rides I did I felt like one of the stronger guys on the ride, but wasn't happy with the finish. In both instances I felt that having more snap/and or ability to withstand lactic acid in my legs would have made a big difference.

Will sprint workouts help me with those last items? I would guess it would.

Also: suggested sprint workout for a guy with big base miles/good fitness/no sprinting mojo?

I don't want to win the Green Jersey boys. But I do want enough snap to grab the key wheel at the end. Today for example I think having more capacity to endure lactic acid might have helped me stay on the group up the final climb, I got dropped on a slightly steeper section .3 miles from the hilltop finish. What killed me is after I got dumped I tempo'd up the hill pretty good. Oh well.

Planning on one sprint workout each week. Thanks in advance you intractable Road Nazi scum you.

one summer i used to do sprint workouts in CP, on tuesday mornings.

we'd do 3-4 sprints per lap. every now and then mike mccarthy would show up. he always led us out. if i could pull alongside him, it was a good day.

:sigh: :good times: :waxes nostalgic:

Sprints and weights might help spare you from being outgunned by a 15 year-old junior track racer like I did today.

Getting beat by a junior track racer in SoCal ain't that embarassing, given that the group includes guys like Kit and Iggy.

So, PCad, how about this: http://www.kissena.info/track/Kissena%202008%20Twilight%20Series.pdf?

one summer i used to do sprint workouts in CP, on tuesday mornings.

we'd do 3-4 sprints per lap. every now and then mike mccarthy would show up. he always led us out. if i could pull alongside him, it was a good day.

:sigh: :good times: :waxes nostalgic:

That there is some overspeed work. :lol:

Don't do plyo on a bad knee.

I do 'em every winter on a surgically repaired knee and two surgically repaired ankles. No one said to go crazy!

I go do stadium hops, which are about as low impact as plyos can be.

Getting beat by a junior track racer in SoCal ain't that embarassing, given that the group includes guys like Kit and Iggy.

So, PCad, how about this: http://www.kissena.info/track/Kissena%202008%20Twilight%20Series.pdf?

I'll take my MTB over there and ride over those track weenies. I'll have to wait until after the race however, I'd never catch them.

Getting beat by a junior track racer in SoCal ain't that embarassing, given that the group includes guys like Kit and Iggy.


i heard they were fast.

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/photos-NM-Misc/KitCarson-500.jpghttp://thealternakids.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/iggy-pop.jpg

i heard they were fast.

Nice. Mr. Pop looks like he has the physique of a bike racer.

So, anyway, this Kit and this Iggy:

Hey boys I included a couple of those 1 min. WRI's today near the end of my interval ride. Those might make me faster. They sucked. I liked them.

Thanks for all the feedback. You're all still Road Nazi Scum however.

repeats until you throw up....works for me.