General Cycling Discussion - Well, one less Cannondale in the world..

Here I am usually worried about some soccer mom not paying attention and blasting me while riding...

Coming home today on a nice 45mph main road (in the car) and some bright roadie on a sweet SuperSix, all kitted out, blows a stop sign to my right at full speed coming out of the development he lives in and attempts to take the lane.... the only problem was my car was already occupying it. He went over, bike went under, and is at this time a mass of carbon fiber with no appreciable shape.

Biker gets up screaming, at the same time a county cop that was coming the other way stops, having seen the entire thing. He actualy gave the biker a "Failure to obey a traffic control device" ticket and sent me on my way with the guys info for my ins company.. Other than a lot of blacktop rash and fully torn Cannondale kit guy seemed fine. Bike was utter and complete toast, I ran over it with front and back wheels and it balled up under the car. Once the discussion started with the cop, and the guy realized I bike (d'oh, the Yakima rack setup on the roof might be the *first* indication!), he calmed down, but he certainly wanted it to be my fault regardless of the several eyewitnesses. Everyone said guy never slowed at his stop (I didn't have one), and appeared to actually be trying to be accelerating trying to get in front of me .

Be careful out there!

-R

I'm glad you didn't have to suffer the stress of a dead cyclist, even with it being his fault.

I'm sure it was stressful, even with him being alright.

Glad he ended up alright, with just stuff damaged to teach him a lesson.

You were lucky in a lot of ways. First to have so many witnesses, one of which is a police officer. Then no one was really hurt except for maybe your nerves and his pocket book. :)

What I can't figure out how he thought there was even a small chance that it was your fault.

Just goes to show you, slow down when your in your car (when I say "you" it is in general terms not that you weren't obeying traffic laws). I see so many people exceeding the speed limit in places such as MUP crossings. Is it really worth hitting someone to save 5 minutes. Also, if you are on your bike, obey the traffic laws. It's really not worth risking your life to blow through a stop sign.

What I can't figure out how he thought there was even a small chance that it was your fault.

Oh, there'll be somebody here who will hail the cyclist for taking his lane. :rolleyes:

To the OP, good to hear that all the luck went your way. Might want to put the car on a lift and be sure that the bike didn't tear anything up, too.

Damn idiot cyclists. His acting the fool probably made it easier for you to not feel somehow at fault.

Didn't take long.. ^^^

Damn idiot cyclists. His acting the fool probably made it easier for you to not feel somehow at fault.

Ummmmmmmmmm, yeah. :rolleyes:

Damn idiot cyclists. His acting the fool probably made it easier for you to not feel somehow at fault.

Let me be clear: You were not at all at fault.

Let me be clear: You were not at all at fault.

Ok, all's good. That could have been taken either way. :love::love:

I see no way he could have honestly thought you where at fault even in the smallest way.

Sometimes people feel as if they share the blame or responsibility for something even if they did nothing in any way to cause it. Not an unusual reaction. That doesn't mean they were at fault. The cyclist that ran the stop sign was at fault in this case.

we have to stop at stop signs???? how about red lights?????

Sometimes people feel as if they share the blame or responsibility for something even if they did nothing in any way to cause it. Not an unusual reaction. That doesn't mean they were at fault. The cyclist that ran the stop sign was at fault in this case.

I'd have to agree. Even now I'm still in the "could I have done something differently" mode. As a cyclist, and after having had close calls over the years I try to be more attuned when driving the car when I know or believe a cyclist may be in the vicinity. No matter which way I try to slice or dice this I can't come up with a way I could have done anything differently.

But that little "nudge" from an internet forum did indeed fire the old brain neurons again. Thanks again for clarifying what you meant.

But there is now a part of me that thinks to that scene of a balled up Cannondale and the few grand that it cost and makes me think "betcha won't do that again, because that has to hurt to look at!" :p

I'd have to agree. Even now I'm still in the "could I have done something differently" mode. As a cyclist, and after having had close calls over the years I try to be more attuned when driving the car when I know or believe a cyclist may be in the vicinity. No matter which way I try to slice or dice this I can't come up with a way I could have done anything differently.

But that little "nudge" from an internet forum did indeed fire the old brain neurons again. Thanks again for clarifying what you meant.

But there is now a part of me that thinks to that scene of a balled up Cannondale and the few grand that it cost and makes me think "betcha won't do that again, because that has to hurt to look at!" :p

Hopefully the other guy learned a lesson or two.

Good on cyclist for thinking about taking the lane.

However, this plan obviously neglected some steps up to that point. Like traffic signs.

He gets a "Fail" for poor planning and execution.

He can sue you for the cost of his bike and depending where you live can win,so be prepared to buy him a new bike.Better consider having your insurance company buy him a new bike.

Bikes are not motor driven vehicles and they are in some locales no different than a runner or walker in the middle of the street.

So the real question is.... HOW'S YOUR CAR????
I would have been super pisssssed! Especially since it was so obviously his fault.
Then again I like my car as much as I like my bike, which is probably not the norm around here.

He can sue you for the cost of his bike and depending where you live can win,so be prepared to buy him a new bike.Better consider having your insurance company buy him a new bike.

Bikes are not motor driven vehicles and they are in some locales no different than a runner or walker in the middle of the street.

I suppose this could happen *someplace* - but not in the US, much less in Virginia.

And I seriously doubt it would happen in European countries with presumptions in favor of cyclists, since these presumptions can be rebutted - and fairly easily in this case, I would think.

So the real question is.... HOW'S YOUR CAR????
I would have been super pisssssed! Especially since it was so obviously his fault.
Then again I like my car as much as I like my bike, which is probably not the norm around here.

Had to replace a rear strut that was smashed in. It's the "commuter" car, I try not to be too anal about it. Had it been my Jeep he'd have been dead, if not from the accident then by my strangling him! I'm the same way as you it sounds, a waaay bit picky about my vehicles.

And mark9950, no chance of my being at fault. Cop even said that was the primary reason for the "Failure to obey a traffic control device" citation for the rider.

-Roger

He can sue you for the cost of his bike...

I want to be the judge to hear that case, because I would throw him out on his ass and tell him to suck it up and buy a friggin' Huffy.

Why can't people take responsibility for their mistakes.
So many people are looking to point the finger immediately. It is their first instinct, and it's getting worse out there.

S.

Would you have hit him if he was 12 years old?

Would you have hit him if he was 12 years old?

???

What, you mean would the cyclist have hit the driver if the driver was 12 years old?

I mean, that's what happened.

Had to replace a rear strut that was smashed in. It's the "commuter" car, I try not to be too anal about it.


Ah, well that makes me feel a little bit better. Whew! ;)
But dammmmmmn... that's still some surprising damage. I bet you it was his wheel that did that since his carbon fiber frame probably disintegrated on contact.

Had to replace a rear strut that was smashed in.
Did you get his auto insurance information, then? I wouldn't let him get away with his insurance not paying just because he was riding a bike. (and I happen to detest cars, personally...)

Coming home today on a nice 45mph main road (in the car) and some bright roadie on a sweet SuperSix, all kitted out, blows a stop sign to my right at full speed coming out of the development he lives in and attempts to take the lane....the only problem was my car was already occupying it.

Are you saying he was trying to go straight through the intersection?

Or was he turning right and merging onto the road you were traveling on, and he ran into the back of your car?

If it's the latter, that was one fast roadie (if you were going 45MPH).

Here I am usually worried about some soccer mom not paying attention and blasting me while riding...

Once the discussion started with the cop, and the guy realized I bike (d'oh, the Yakima rack setup on the roof might be the *first* indication!), he calmed down, but he certainly wanted it to be my fault regardless of the several eyewitnesses. Everyone said guy never slowed at his stop (I didn't have one), and appeared to actually be trying to be accelerating trying to get in front of me .

Be careful out there!

-R

I am so very glad you had a witness and even better a Cop who could site the at fault person. I wonder how often and of the rest of us have tried blowing a stop sign? In many cases when we decide the traffic laws don’t apply to us it can be a disaster. On my morning ride last Friday I saw something very similar to what you described only an accident was narrowly avoided. I was sitting at a stoplight, and yes cyclists as supposed to stop for stoplights, and it finally turned green. Just as I reached the opposite crosswalk the cars facing me started to make their right and left hand turns. I heard the squeal of brakes and looked to my left to see a young male, looked to be about 15 or 16, blast into the crosswalk on the wrong side of the street and against the light. The woman driving the car missed the bike and rider by a few inches at best and sounded her horn. The young man simply laughed as he passed a few yards behind me.

I am glad the boy didn’t get hit but I also started watching other riders as they approached stop signs and lights for the rest of my ride. Most cyclists I see stop for lights but not all that many stop if they are turning left against a red light. With more new riders getting into cycling now I worry about when I hear that some people believe we aren’t subject to the rules of the road. Even if we want to flaunt the rules of the road we will have a hard time flaunting the rule that says no two objects can occupy the same space at the same time.

Bob

Are you saying he was trying to go straight through the intersection?

Or was he turning right and merging onto the road you were traveling on, and he ran into the back of your car?

If it's the latter, that was one fast roadie (if you were going 45MPH).

He was turning right, heading the same direction as I was. Coming from a side street on my right, trying to take the lane in front of me. And while he was getting it, I was going faster - therefore the collision. I honestly only caught a glimpse of him a moment before we connected. I caught him with the right front though, he went over the hood and bike went under the right side wheels. I don't even think he touched the hood on the flight over!

I think he thought he could beat me and grab the lane and force me to slow and miscalculated the speeds personally.


-R

He may not have even seen you, focusing instead on looking ahead through the turn.

It's a good way to take a turn fast, but it's a terrible way to enter a street.

He can sue you for the cost of his bike and depending where you live can win,so be prepared to buy him a new bike.Better consider having your insurance company buy him a new bike.

Bikes are not motor driven vehicles and they are in some locales no different than a runner or walker in the middle of the street.



Would you have hit him if he was 12 years old?

Lay off the crack pipe mark.

I hope your car is alright. I know that I have blown through stop signs almost to get hit. Luckily the driver paid attention. I can only imagine the frustration that drivers feel because of behavior by a minority of cyclist. It gives the rest a bad name. I am much more careful now:o

So the real question is.... HOW'S YOUR CAR????


I was wondering how long it would take for someone to finally ask the only relevent question here.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to finally ask the only relevent question here.

... I mentioned it in the fourth post.. :p;)

...attempts to take the lane.... the only problem was my car was already occupying it.
-R

Is this a one-lane road with no room for a cyclist and a car to occupy any space together from curb to curb?

The cyclist was legally wrong. I have no argument with that. But I have cyclists "merge" into "my" lane all the time. I just go around them, or slow behind them.

Were you text-messaging, or actually looking through the windshield? Did the cyclist take the "oil drip line", or the right tire track, or did you nail him before he took a line at all. Did you actually SEE him run the stop sign, or infer it after you returned his carbon bike back to the periodic table of elements? Skid marks? Most folks slam on their brakes by involuntary reaction when a human screws up in front of them - if they are paying attention that is. If you actually saw him go through the stop and had no time to skid, chances are he was attempting suicide. How could he have not seen you if you were so close as to not react?

Something seems amiss here. You have not told the entire story yet. Guess I'm calling BS so far. Need more data.

Something seems amiss here. You have not told the entire story yet. Guess I'm calling BS so far. Need more data.

Two lane road, no shoulder, no curbs. Intersection from a housing development on the right. Stop sign for that development No, I wasn't text messaging, I was driving the car down the road. Description of the accident from a witness 4 car lengths behind me and a cop about 1/8 of a mile in front of me headed toward me. Rider came out of the development - through a stop and into my right front.

No BS, find someone else to heckle.

Two lane road, no shoulder, no curbs. Intersection from a housing development on the right. Stop sign for that development No, I wasn't text messaging, I was driving the car down the road. Description of the accident from a witness 4 car lengths behind me and a cop about 1/8 of a mile in front of me headed toward me. Rider came out of the development - through a stop and into my right front.

No BS, find someone else to heckle.

Don't let him get to you. Just take a look at some of his videos. He should be the last person to accuse someone for unsafe driving.

...a witness 4 car lengths behind me...

Lucky he didn't roll over you with both wheels I guess.

I guess I'm still not getting how you were not seen by the cyclist. Lets assume he was text messaging someone. Now I can't figure how his bike got under both wheels of your vehicle. Did he ever aquire a line on the road at all? Where was he positioned in the lane ahead of you? Or did he hit the front corner of your vehicle before becoming parallel with the roadway?

I understand he ran the stop and is in the wrong. Just can't quite get how he got run over. I'm not heckling. Just interested in all the facts. Did he have headphones? Cars and trucks make quite a bit of noise rolling down the street. He didn't look up and was deaf while blowing the stop. If you wrote those words, it would then make sense.

Don't let him get to you. Just take a look at some of his videos. He should be the last person to accuse someone for unsafe driving.

Yes, I have 35 years of experience blowing stop signs and red lights. I have yet to be touched (just made 50+ this year). I don't even look at the stop signs or red lights any more, I just look for traffic. That's why I ask the pointed questions. If the cyclist got himself run over, I would love to know exactly HOW, so I can avoid that scenario.

You gotta admit...there are some details missing here.

I guess I'm still not getting how you were not seen by the cyclist.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=7010237&postcount=29

(conjecture, of course, but I'll bet I'm not far off, especially if the guy was pedaling at a pretty hot pace)

Yes, I have 35 years of experience blowing stop signs and red lights. I have yet to be touched (just made 50+ this year). I don't even look at the stop signs or red lights any more, I just look for traffic. That's why I ask the pointed questions. If the cyclist got himself run over, I would love to know exactly HOW, so I can avoid that scenario.

You gotta admit...there are some details missing here.

Impressive given your riding:eek: Seriously though the vids are pretty cool:thumb: Do you wear headphones when you ride?

Do you wear headphones when you ride?

No headphones. I would be dead a hundred times if I plugged my ears. I also wear a helmet-mounted rear view mirror which is priceless to me. I need a perfect continual 360 degree data stream coming into my eyes and ears to ride like that and survive. Not to mention the ability to focus and not be distracted.

Would you have hit him if he was 12 years old?

Did you not see in the OP that the driver had no time to react?

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=7010237&postcount=29

(conjecture, of course, but I'll bet I'm not far off, especially if the guy was pedaling at a pretty hot pace)

Yes, that's how I figure it too. But the cyclist jumped up blaming the motorist. That's the part that interested me. And if you read the OPs post just above he mentions what eye witnesses told him happened, not what he actually SAW happen. That's why I asked where he was looking. He never has answered the question about the cyclist's positioning in the lane either 'cause maybe he never saw the cyclist until after the impact.

While driving a full sized van down a 35 mph street I was run into (impact front left - just under my feet) by a young lady in a sports car. She ran a stop sign too. Her first words were "I didn't see you". And I didn't need any witnesses because I SAW the whole thing. I had a front row seat and I was paying attention. There was no time or space on the road to react, so no matter that I was paying attention or not - the results would have been exactly the same. She was in the wrong and that's that.

My beef with the OPs account is that maybe if he was paying better attention a slight twist of the steering wheel might have saved all the bother. Then again, maybe not, as with the car that hit my van. His story starts out with a bike under BOTH wheels (including a front wheel I am assuming) and other people telling him what happened.

Yes, that's how I figure it too. But the cyclist jumped up blaming the motorist. That's the part that interested me.

It interested me, too, because I know that there are people here on BF who will blame any motorist for anything no matter how badly, illegally, and stupidly they were riding themselves. I'd figure that the biker was just another one of those yahoos.


While driving a full sized van down a 35 mph street I was run into (impact front left - just under my feet) by a young lady in a sports car. She ran a stop sign too. Her first words were "I didn't see you". And I didn't need any witnesses because I SAW the whole thing. I had a front row seat and I was paying attention. There was no time or space on the road to react, so no matter that I was paying attention - the results would have been exactly the same. She was in the wrong and that's that.

My beef with the OPs account is that maybe if he was paying better attention a slight twist of the steering wheel might have saved all the bother. Then again, maybe not, as with the car that hit my van. His story starts out with a bike under BOTH wheels (including a front wheel I am assuming) and other people telling him what happened.

That's probably the case, like a "WTF..??" moment, can't exactly jerk left because of the oncoming lane just a paint stripe away, even if he had time to identify the hazard - decide whether he could move over - turn the wheel - get the car to change direction - and retain control.

I do a little autocrossing now & then, and even when I know where the course is going, I have to act far enough ahead to make a maneuver just because it takes so much time for my hands to turn the wheel, the tires to change direction, the tire treads to grip in that new direction, the suspension to settle, and the car's weight to finally get pointed in the new direction. Add on a full second for identifying a surprise hazard, and it's not inconceivable that the OP had no chance to swerve far enough and safely enough to avoid the cyclist and not hit the cop car that was coming the other way and not spin out himself.

Another "if" -- if the cyclist was going fast enough (and on a SuperSix, I hope he was, just to justify that bling ;)), he would have taken that corner with a wide entry & exit... which, at the entry, would have put him in a more blind position (from both his and the driver's point of view) than if he had slowed down for an inside entry.

Or did he hit the front corner of your vehicle before becoming parallel with the roadway?



Ding Ding! came into the right front right at the headlight he went up and over, bike went down and under

What was he doin? Heck, I dunno. He could have been eating a moon pie and singing the star spangled banner in a key of E beforehand for all I know.

Ding Ding! came into the right front right at the headlight he went up and over, bike went down and under

Sounds like he was trying a wider corner exit to me. :thumb:

Ding Ding! came into the right front right at the headlight he went up and over, bike went down and under

What was he doin? Heck, I dunno.....

Sounds like he comitted himself to a gap that was not actually there.

Thanks for the last puzzle piece.

-Joey