Advocacy & Safety - How Long do Bikes Last?

Hi, I'm writing a paper about how 'green' bikes are. I'm having trouble find solid information on how many years an average bike will last before being re-cycled and how much of a bicycle can be re-cycled.

It seems logical to me that a well made bike, properly maintained should easily last 20-30 years, but there doesn't seem to be any figures to support this. Also a metal framed bike must be almost completely re-cyclable for scap except for the tyres.

I'm not asking anyone to write my paper, just point me off in the right direction.

This is going to be really difficult. I doubt the stats are out there. It's a complex question.

Most bicycles are probably not "used up" but simply left to gradually get obsolete and rusty in garages. Sort of like cheap guitars.

Racing bicycles and enthusiast bicycles get ridden hard and do indeed wear out components, even Campy components, after a few years. Is that the "bicycle" wearing out? And the frames get abandoned after a while when they're obsolete.

Then there are people who buy a bike and use it until it's really obsolete. I was one of these folks, riding the same bike from 1974 to 1993. But it really wasn't quite "worn out."

And the time capsule bikes. I got a 1930s Schwinn track bike. Laced up the wheels with modern rims and rode it for years on the road (had brake holes). That one is probably restored and "used" as an antique now.

Most frames last indefinitely. Components wear out at varying rates. That's one of the advantages of the expensive stuff - it holds up longer under tough condition.

I'd think an average mid-range aluminum bike with carbon fork and aluminum steerer with say Tiagra level components would last a lifetime with tuneups. Like a violin. But it would gradually go through the expendibles and might at some point become non-economic to keep putting money into. And would at some point be obsolete.

I notice that I really want a bike to be modernized at about 15 years. My French fit Paramount is still comfortable and works fine, but the 105 level components including 7 speed brifters simply don't give me the performance I want. Because I'm spoiled. The bars are old school and I want new ones. New saddles are better. Is it through? No. It still works. It is getting "recycled"? Maybe. It's getting taken down to the frame, frame modified a little, paint patched, and set up with a Veloce 3 x 10 transmission, modern stem & bar, carbon post, modern saddle. A modern bike on an old frame. Is it being recycled by this process?

On recycling, one would need to separate differing materials. Aluminum from carbon. Steel from aluminum. That takes energy and effort. When is there so little material that it is a losing proposition?

Difficult!

I've heard to expect 30,000 miles. Within that time, replacing the wheels once or twice, replacing the bottom bracket, replacing a few cassettes, several chains, a dozen or so tires, a dozen or so brake pads, and maybe a dérailleur.

I've not been riding nearly long enough to tell you if that's even close to accurate. I think a lot of it depends on the rider. Some people have a knack for destroying things and others seem to have a knack for making them outlast the products expectation.

It's probably similar to cars. Most cars probably get trashed before 150,000 miles. Most cars should probably run to 250,000 miles or more if treated properly and if the miles are added quickly enough.


mandovoodoo,
I bet the aluminum and steel are worth separating. I don't think it's very difficult to separate a large percentage of the steel and aluminum. You cut the aluminum to get rid of all the fiber. You then remove the parts which are too mixed to work with. Then you probably sandblast the paint off.

Don't they recycle aluminum cans by heating them up? And it's still 7 times less energy than processing aluminum ore.

The issue is probably that setting up a bicycle recycling plant wouldn't be worth the 2,000 Americans who'd actually pay to recycle their bikes.

Older road bikes with steel frames, 5-to-8-speed cogsets, friction or linear-index shifting, loose-ball bearings, and full-size (non-compact) chainrings should last at least 40k miles / 65k km, if properly maintained. Economics, durability, repairability, comfort, sheer practicality, and aesthetics are the reasons I ride old classics exclusively.

Particularly with compact chainrings, today's 9-speed and 10-speed cogsets and chains wear out fast because the chain exerts an even greater force while engaging fewer, narrower teeth. Brifter ratchet-and-pawl mechanisms likewise wear out long before their simpler linear-action counterparts. Race-bred superlight components are fine for one season of racing, but not for decades of commuting or touring. Aluminum and carbon fiber frames do not last as long as well-made brazed steel frames.

My personal experience includes breaking a Nishiki Competition frame at the bottom bracket shell after 20 years / 40k mi / 65k km of use. My Brooks Pro saddle is definitely showing its age, but remains serviceable and extremely comfortable after 35 years / 50k mi / 80k km of use. I have worn out a few chainrings and freewheel cogs in my time, and I have snapped a couple of rear axles at the drive side bearing cone, but I tend to get years and years of service out of my bikes (and my cars, for that matter).

A local bike shop chain, B&L Sports, accepts tires and innertubes for recycling.

Like John, I tend to ride bikes for a long time before they reach retirement. I find that as components wear out, they tend to be replaced, and in my experience, I have had to retire one frame, and that because it was designed for some very non-standard components, and I was not able to replace the bottom bracket when that finally gave way.

An observation - as I walk around downtown, I see a lot of lugged steel frames mostly from the early 80s or earlier. I see far more of these being used than the aluminium mountain bikes that were cranked out by the hundreds of thousands in the 90s. So where are all the bikes made in the late 80s or later? - Will some of the bikes being sold new today still be on the road in 30 years? - I somehow doubt that some of the materials and construction techniques will hold up that long. The fundamental design of a bike today is to replace components as they wear with other standardized components, as things change, and it gets harder to replace components, bikes that would otherwise still be serviceable are scrapped. Although a Ti frame may last forever, if it is designed for some special headset or bottom bracket, if you can't find a compatible component in 20 years, that will define the lifetime of the frame.

My current commuter bike has just over 10K miles on it. It is a 2001 Bianchi San Remo touring bike, but it has few of the original components on it - the campy ergo shifters were moved to another bike and a bar-end shifter added, which can be used with any rear cassette - Neither wheel is original, I just replaced my front brake (spring in the Cantis broke, and it was easier to replace with new brake than to find the part), I have replaced most everything in the drive train, brake levers, etc. None of the repairs/replacements were very expensive, so you tend to just maintain the bike forever. This is different from an automobile. If you have a 15 year old car, with 150,000 miles on it, and it blows a head gasket, you are probably not going to spend the $2500 to do the repair since the car is not worth it - the high cost of automobile repairs limits the useful life of the automobile, there are no such repairs for a bike, so if the frame is designed properly, to take standard components, then the bike can be maintained essentially forever.

+1,

I have been riding the same bike for 36 years, with unknown number of miles. And as old parts have worn out they have been replaced with what is available. I always try to use components that I can service for years to come, so when the BB wore out I went with a Phil Wood, the same when I build a new set of wheels. Crank Bros peddals, bar end shifters, new Brooks B17 saddle, I have a good frame, maybe a little heavy by todays standards, but then again so am I. :D The bike fits, I enjoy riding it, what more can one ask?

A bike kept indoors will last forever, that is, 100 years easily. If the question is what is the average life of bikes before they are thrown away, then its probably 5-15 years.

I too have been riding the same bike for a long time... since around 1982-1983. Bike technology zoomed right past my friction shifting upright utility bike. (the odd thing is that bar top thumb friction shifters were on the map for such a short time, but they are really great) I had that bike custom built for me to handle all the daily road conditions that a narrow tire Nishiki International rather balked at... such as big pot holes. The frame and the Mavic wheels can handle anything from about 28mm to 54mm tires... I currently run 1.95 inch (49mm) Armadillos on it.

At this point, I am looking into acid dipping and powder coating it to get many more years out of it. The paint is the one thing not yet replaced... and I am afraid that grease and rust are in heavy competition.

I went with Phil Wood way back then for as maintenance free a bike as possible... hubs, and BB. I have gone through several chains, freewheels, and a couple rear deraileurs, as well as one BB. The Campy crankset and chain rings are shot at this point too. (cracked crankset, worn chainrings) Fortunately, I can still get decent freewheels, even these days. That bike has served me well.

I have no idea what kind of miles it has on it... I'd have to guess well over 40,000 miles... and that is being very conservative. (I do have other bikes too)

Like John, I tend to ride bikes for a long time before they reach retirement. I find that as components wear out, they tend to be replaced, and in my experience, I have had to retire one frame, and that because it was designed for some very non-standard components, and I was not able to replace the bottom bracket when that finally gave way.

An observation - as I walk around downtown, I see a lot of lugged steel frames mostly from the early 80s or earlier. I see far more of these being used than the aluminium mountain bikes that were cranked out by the hundreds of thousands in the 90s. So where are all the bikes made in the late 80s or later? - Will some of the bikes being sold new today still be on the road in 30 years? - I somehow doubt that some of the materials and construction techniques will hold up that long. The fundamental design of a bike today is to replace components as they wear with other standardized components, as things change, and it gets harder to replace components, bikes that would otherwise still be serviceable are scrapped. Although a Ti frame may last forever, if it is designed for some special headset or bottom bracket, if you can't find a compatible component in 20 years, that will define the lifetime of the frame.

My current commuter bike has just over 10K miles on it. It is a 2001 Bianchi San Remo touring bike, but it has few of the original components on it - the campy ergo shifters were moved to another bike and a bar-end shifter added, which can be used with any rear cassette - Neither wheel is original, I just replaced my front brake (spring in the Cantis broke, and it was easier to replace with new brake than to find the part), I have replaced most everything in the drive train, brake levers, etc. None of the repairs/replacements were very expensive, so you tend to just maintain the bike forever. This is different from an automobile. If you have a 15 year old car, with 150,000 miles on it, and it blows a head gasket, you are probably not going to spend the $2500 to do the repair since the car is not worth it - the high cost of automobile repairs limits the useful life of the automobile, there are no such repairs for a bike, so if the frame is designed properly, to take standard components, then the bike can be maintained essentially forever.

Not to mention that bikes are the real "volkswagon" in that they are very "people repairable."

Your comment about the Ti Frames and finding components is what has actually kept me from plunking down money on a nice new Ti bike... parts are simply too non-interchangeable these days. Look at the 9 speed/10 speed/11 speed Campy shifters and the differences between them and Shimano... Everything is too specialized, and in 10 years, likely to be outdated and no longer available.

I wonder also what the life span is of "plastic bikes;" all the CF frames that are coming out these days. While they are corrosion resistant... they are not UV resistant, and a few dings can be the beginning of a delamination failure.

Well, bikes last in miles and not in years. It depends on how many miles you put on them.

Now I ride a bunch of miles. You have things that wear out quickly like tires (about 2500 miles), chains (about 3000 miles), rear cogs (about 8000 miles), brake pads (about 8000 miles), shifters (about 20000 miles), rear deraillers (about 35000 miles), head sets (about 30000 miles) and so on. Cyclists put on anywhere between 500 and 5000 miles per year.

Most cyclists are recreational riders. They like their bikes to be up to date. So after about 4 years, they buy a new one. Usually their old bike is still fine but it does not have the neat new stuff on it. Few bikes are actually ridden enough to wear out. I have ridden a few bikes up to 50,000 miles and if you replace stuff as it breaks or wears out, they are still perfectly useable.

Now if people switch to bicycling as a short range mode of transportation, they are quite likely to up their mileage. You might actually see more wear on bikes.

24 years on my Nishiki Cresta and still rolling with little rust. The only major components changed are the rear dérailleur...the original lasted about 3 years..., the bottom bracket was rebuilt a few weeks ago, and I replaced the seat as the covering on the old one had come unglued.

Road bike -- 7 years old, about 12,000 miles; has been rebuilt with new wheels, cogset, shifters, new paint
MTB -- 11 years old, new cogset, chainrings -- still looks like new
Singlespeed -- 23 years old, converted MTB
Utility bike (work in progress) -- 36 year old British road bike; great shape -- long in years but not in miles

If it helps, my bonded aluminum Trek from 1985 just got updated with 2006 components on it. The frame is solid even though it was effectively glued together 23 years ago.

Two things, first a "New Bike Warranty" only lasts 5,000 miles.

Second, Steel chainrings outlast aluminum by thousands of miles. I have re-thought in light of this fact, and I now prefer steel chainrings.

I'll try and list the bikes that I have presently or have owned that were not babied by previous owners:

1947 Schwinn Henderson:
Ladies' ballooner, was ridable as-is after replacement of tires/tubes.

195X Murray Aeroline:
Ladies' ballooner, original coasterbrake bit the dust in 2005. Original crankset had been replaced for unknown reasons, same for original saddle top, although the lower saddle frame was still intact (bolted to a cheap saddle pan from a Huffy Santa Fe II). Original handlebar and stem intact, original grips long gone, 1970's-era replacements were also splitting. One of the seat stays was dented inwards w/no damage to steel frame. Could have been cold-set to original position, but I never got around to it. Worse problem were partially stripped threads on the front fork which prevented the upper headset race from being tightened correctly.

1951 Raleigh Sports "C" Tourist (#1):
Mileage unknown, recently built up with period parts. New consumables (brake pads, tires, tubes, reproduction grips) Still in one piece today.

1951 Raleigh Sports "C" Tourist (#2):
All original w/replacement Goodyear tires from the '60s. Intact and ridable. Original brake cable housings had deteriorated into a crusty cardboard-like substance. Pads were dry. Otherwise, intact, fully ridable and serviceable.

1961 Schwinn Paramount P-12:
Local shop reject. Replacement rims from the 1980's - one alloy, one steel, had been twisted beyond use. Original steel Stronglight Competition crankset was rusted from top to bottom, but functional if need be. Rear derailer pulley cage had been twisted out of shape, and was cold-set straight. Lack of grease had caused the original seatpost to jam in the seattube, later removed with considerable effort. Part of rear triangle had been bent sideways, cold-set back to proper position with no ill effect on the frame. Aluminum Titan handlebar and Titan steel stem intact. Steel headset worn with flat spots and indexing, technically in need of replacement. Rebuilt machine (which consists ONLY of the frame, fork, handlebars and derailers off the original hulk) presently has a bit over 1,500 miles on it.

1970 Schwinn Paramount P-13, all chrome:
Had been used as a messenger's bike. The remaining, confirmed original parts - that is, the frame, fork, seatpost, crankset, chainrings (Campagnolo Nuovo Record, AL) and rear derailer were intact and have little wear. Original chrome finish 99% intact. Original rear derailer jockey wheels had been replaced with white Campagnolo jockey wheels from the mid 1980's. Unknown what the reason for replacing the other components was.

1976 Schwinn Voyageur II:
Ridden over 10,000+ miles by an avid tourer who bought it new - rode across the U.S. twice on it. Abandoned outdoors, outside his house, for many years afterwards. Seat post and handlebar stem jammed in steel frame due to lack of grease, quite a lot of surface rust on steel headset and chromed lugs, otherwise mechanically intact. Original Dura-Ace crankset with original rings (aluminum) in perfect, usable condition. Shimano Titlist front derailer completely dulled, but operational. Suntour Vx RD fully intact with intact pulley wheels, not known if original RD to bike or replacement.

1981 Trek 610:
All-original machine that fared out well through the years in terms of paint condition, but lack of love was evident on all the aluminum components, which were covered in oxide. Chrome parts considerably pitted. Rear Rigida rim had been rendered mostly useless with a big flat spot by someone's fancy curbhopping years ago. Regardless, the bike could be ridden with no particular problems (other then a bouncy rear wheel) in that exact state. Bars and stem had been greased properly, so they were easily removable. The rest of the components were cleaned and serviced to look like new, but were ultimately mounted on other machines in my stable.

Mid-'80s Kent 10-speed:
Utterly cheap, department-store quality road machine from the mid 1980's was found in a trash pile. New chain, tires, and brake pads made it entirely ridable again for general purpose use.

1992(?) Guerciotti EL:
Beautiful lugged frame with oversize Columbus steel tubing. More notable for the Shimano 600 group it presently runs. Left brifter refuses to downshift (despite significant tension on the cable) without mild pressure exerted on the derailer cage itself, which ultimately triggers the release mechanism in the shifter. Rear derailer never shifts perfectly with virtually new cassette, and correctly-operating brifter. Three different Shimano 600 6401 rear derailers were tested, two of which were obviously bent (why should they be prone to it?), while the third was properly aligned, but still refused to work just right. Derailer hanger has been checked and is aligned correctly.

Early 1990's Nishiki Blazer hybrid:
Intact in every respect, looked to have been well-cared for...save for a stripped BB shell. Steel frame, no less.

Late 1990's Giant Sedona:
Hybrid bike purchased at yard sale. Rear derailer had been replaced with non-stock Sram ESP, which had rusted from top to bottom. Rear cassette, chain, and crankset were significantly worn, but functional. Shifter cables were rusted beyond usability, and front wheel was badly bent. All other components intact, made to run very well with new cables and a replacement Shimano derailer.

Late 1990's Gary Fisher Tassajara:
Unloved MTB looked nice, no cracks in AL frame, but had a drivetrain that had been worn so bad that the chainring teeth looked like curved dorsal fins. Chain was stretched significantly, RD was bent beyond sufficient indexing. Shimano 8-speed thumb shifters never worked right, despite proper replacement derailers, and examination of frame alignment. Integrated BB was starting to get slop in it.

Early '00s Jamis hybrid (Aragon?):
Nearly brand-new Jamis hybrid already stripped the rear derailer hanger within two years of purchase. Replacement fixed the problem, which has lasted a few years. How long it will last is in question.

Hope this helps.

-Kurt

Hi, I'm writing a paper about how 'green' bikes are. I'm having trouble find solid information on how many years an average bike will last before being re-cycled and how much of a bicycle can be re-cycled.

It seems logical to me that a well made bike, properly maintained should easily last 20-30 years, but there doesn't seem to be any figures to support this. Also a metal framed bike must be almost completely re-cyclable for scap except for the tyres.

I'm not asking anyone to write my paper, just point me off in the right direction.

Seven Years :(

http://sub20olh.blogspot.com

Unless its been abused by a careless owner, there's no reason that a steel bicycle will not "outlive" several owners. Parts will wear out and need replacement, but the frame itself will remain sound. As long as the parts do not become obsolete, the bicycle itself will last and last and last. The truth is, we don't know how long bicycles really last, because they've only been around since the 19th century, and some of those early bicycles have survived the abuse their brethren succumbed to and are still with us (although they are perhaps no longer "viable," due to obsolescent parts...).

Seven Years :(

http://sub20olh.blogspot.com

Now where do you get that ridiculously short number?

OK I see where you got it, but that strikes me as a particular situation, not all bikes. Too bad.

Now where do you get that ridiculously short number?

OK I see where you got it, but that strikes me as a particular situation, not all bikes. Too bad.

The first thing everyone says when they see the photo is "That's not supposed to happen". Hopefully
that thought is shared by Seven Cycles - I suspect it is.

Now where do you get that ridiculously short number?

OK I see where you got it, but that strikes me as a particular situation, not all bikes. Too bad.When determining the "lifespan" of a bike, its also necessary to consider the material used in the frame's construction, and how the characteristics of that material will affect the "lifespan" of the bike.

When determining the "lifespan" of a bike, its also necessary to consider the material used in the frame's construction, and how the characteristics of that material will affect the "lifespan" of the bike.

And
"how heavy is the rider" - I am 210 lbs and beat up bikes
"how hard/fast does the rider ride" - the crack in the 7 was near the BB where the force is applied
"what sort of roads" I commute in SF with potholes and railroad tracks.
"Is it raced" - a.k.a "How often is it crashed"

I would expect a well built Hybrid to last almost forever and not even need a lot of replacement parts if maintained with lube and cleaned. A utility rider on such a bike would probably replace brake pads when they started to be too old, not from being worn down, ditto tires. The chain could probably be "functional" for 10,000 miles.

I have one bicycle, which is still functional, that is 20 years old.

I have a tandem that needs a bit of work, but could be functional that is 30 years old.

I have a 5 year old bicycle, my main bicycle, which has 52,500 kms (32,620 miles) on it ... and I hope to double or triple that at least.

Steel frames are durable, but not indestructible. After 100k miles / 160k km on the road, here is my litany of frames and components broken just from being ridden:

ca. 1974 Peugeot UO-8 frame (chainstay between the tire and chainring clearance dimples)
1971 American Eagle Semi-Pro / Nishiki Competition (seat tube lug broke away from BB shell)
solid Normandy or Atom rear axle, at the right bearing cone
QR Normandy or Atom rear axle, at the right bearing cone
Shimano high-flange front hub flange, at a spoke hole
left Agrati steel crank, at the cotter eye
left 1971 Sugino Mighty Compe aluminum crank, at the pedal eye
aluminum SunTour platform pedal :(
SunTour Cyclone front derailleur at the clamp
a dozen or so spokes

worn out:
23- and 19-tooth SunTour cogs
42- and 44-tooth Ofmega and Sugino chainrings

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=421875

is a good thread to check out from the C&V forum

My first bike that I rode alot when I returned to cycleing lasted about six months, but that was long enough and I can return it to running condition if it weren't for the heavy frame and fact that it will need all french parts. The 45lb Moto with steel rims and useless brakes gave a good six hours a day four days a week after I quit my office job after realizing I weighed 230lbs. It's heavy construction was good as it survived riding off the road and various crashes but it did not survive me getting into shape as many parts started straining and poing-ing off the bike mainly on climbs and despite me losing 60lbs. It was also very rusty, but many bikes in the NE become that way.

when you are done with your paper I'm sure many here would like to read it.

One aspect I would like to add is different bikes and styles have different lifespans. A lot of high end race bikes currently being made are designed to be as light as possible with the sacrifice of durability. Nothing wrong with this, they are making some incredibly light frames but it comes with a price. That will lead to more bikes being taken to the scrap heap from crashes.

On the other hand mountain bikes, touring bikes, ect are built much heavier but are amazingly durable. My mountain bike has been through some truly stressful crashes. I would say 25 of those would have cracked my road bike in 2. The rest of them would have ended up with something bent. My mountain bike on the other hand, even with abuse is likely to outlast me.

Surprises me that nobody has yet made the distinction, especially considering that you're looking at the 'green' aspect of bikes, between Wallyworld bikes and bike shop bikes.


Most 'bikes' sold are the chainstore WallMart/KMart/Whatever cheap imported jobbies. Those are most certainly not "green" because they last about two minutes before they're broken, left to rust behind the shed or whatever. In comparison, even an entry level brand name cycle from a cycling shop will remain useful for year after year, so long as it is maintained.

Yeah, cycle manufacture is wasteful of resources. But primarily because the bulk of people outlaying cash for a 'bike' are buying a throwaway toy rather than a real bike!

I have a bike, (or bikes) from every decade going back to the 1930's and all these bikes are servicable and all are ride-able.

A few were garage queens and had pretty low mileage while others like my 1962 Peugeot and 1973 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sports showed signs of being ridden a great number of miles due to the high degree of wear to the components and in their replaced parts but the steel frames on all of them have held up very well.

Somebody made a comment about setting up a bicycling recycling plant? Why? Just break them down to the their component parts and recycle them...I do it all the time. AFAIK the average non CF bike should be close to 100% recyclable. I do it all the time. People give me bikes, many of them are the inexpensive BSO (Bicycle Shaped Objects) that have sat outside their houses and are basically worthless. I strip them down and sell the metal for scrap. A Xmart aluminum frame is worth a good $7-$10 at current scrap prices. Tires I take and drop off at my local tire store, they get tossed in the bin with the car and truck tires.

As far as the lifespan? I don't think anyone can put a solid number on that...too many variables, just like cars, and as someone pointed out the numbers will be skewed by the volume of xmart bikes. I know I have a 35+ year old Raleigh Sports that has not been treated with kid gloves and it is still going strong. It had an odometer on it at one point, the last time I knew it had over 15,000 miles on it. The only thing replaced has been wear out items like; tires, brake pads, brake cables, a chain and possibly a rear cog. It still has the original chain ring, wheels, hubs, etc on it. But then again it was built for daily use.

Aaron:)

some questions you should ask and, more importantly, answer:

1. my grandfather once told me that he had owned the same axe since he was a boy, although he had "changed the head and handle many times". the same thing applies to bikes as parts are easily end-user swappable. first, you will need to define what you mean by "bike". is it just the frame? the frame plus wheels?

2. are you looking to find out what the theoretical maximum lifespan of a "bike" is or do you want the actual? there are all sorts of reasons why perfectly good bikes and bike parts get ditched long before they die. i mean, when deep-vee's suddenly stop being hip, there's going to be a lot of still good wheels in the trash heap.

3. why are you judging lifespan in years? as has been stated a couple of times already, a bike stored in a heated basement and never ridden will last dozens and dozens of years. km ridden is the best gauge.

4. what are you going to include in your "average" bike calculations? if you include children's bikes, your average lifespan is going to go way down since a) kids wreck bikes and b) they outgrow and disgard them more quickly than adults. same for bmx. just about everyone here probably rides a commuter or a roadbike of some sort (or a 1930's track bike with fancy new wheels. man, i dream about stuff like that...).

5. are you willing to pluralize "anecdote" as "data"?

You might want to comment on integrated headsets and other integrated, often manufacturers own brand, components. When these are installed bike life can be much reduced, as they're a devil to replace.

On that recycling thing...

I work for our local bike co-op and we recycle nearly everything... we presently have a small mountain of unusable frames and bins of steel and rubber that will be going to the recyclers on the weekend.

Besides that we have a yard full of bikes, many of which that are well over 30 years old and are still considered to be more than serviceable.

I work for our local bike co-op and we recycle nearly everything...

props on that. if we remember what we (didn't) learn in school, waste generation and resource consumption is reduced using the "4 r's" model. that is, in order of effectiveness:

reduce: the amount you consume. bike co-ops put a dent in the demand for new bikes -- especially cheap, x-mart new bikes -- by offering refurbished rides at good prices (at my co-op it's $15 for the bike plus $5 per part you want to change or add). every 1980's raleigh that gets bought at the co-op is one more brand new piece of crap that will break in two years that's not being bought from a chain store.
reuse: old stuff instead of throwing it away. when you see the kids coming out of the co-op on a bike older than they are, that's reuse.
recycle: what you would otherwise have to throw away. all bike co-ops i know of ship the unusable metal and other stuff off to some scrap metal joint.
recover: waste material into energy. this is the one 'r' that bike co-ops really fail at. i am trying to convince my local co-op to install an incinerator so we can burn torn saddles and old bar tape to run an electrical generator... but people keep blocking.

I have a 1941 Schwinn DX that probably has a boatload of miles on it over its years.

Mileage rather than years!
Have bicycled a quarter million+ miles.
Here are the outstanding mileages on some of our custom tandems, before we sold them (yup, some were ridden for many more thousands of miles).
64,000 miles. Assenmacher custom tandem: Reynolds 531 tubing (db steel single racing bike tubing); broke frame at 50,000 and 56,000 miles (had broken tube(s) replaced).
56,000 miles: Colin Laing custom tandem. Reynolds 531 tubing (db steel; mixed: racing bike/tandem guage). Broke experimental steel fork at 15,000 miles.
57,000 miles. Co-Motion custom tandem. Tange Prestige db tubing.
19,000+ miles (to date so far): Zona custom full carbon fiber tandem.
Many worn out components replaced, but here are some outstanding ones:
1 Phil Wood bottom bracket and hubs on Assenmacher lasted the lifetime of ownership (64.000 miles). Other Phil BB was replaced after 30,000 miles.
Syncross BBs lasted liefetime of ownership (57,000 miles as did Phil Wood hubs and front Mavic rim.
Durac Ace headset (late 70s) lasted 30,000 miles.
2 pair of Vittoria SuperLeggero pedals lasted between 80,000 and 90,000 miles (composite parts broke).
Cannondale computer (1980s) lasted 80,000+ miles.
Things like handlebars and stems and cranksets (replaced chainrings only) lasted for as long as we owned the bikes.
Moral: Quality lasts.
Bikes/cars are recycleable, to some degree.

The other thing I don't think anyone has mentioned it reusing the frame. My hardtail mountain bike is 5 years old now and is mostly used for commuting and utility purposes. In those 5 years I've already replaced both wheels, brakes (upgrade to disks), and the cassette. Now the suspension fork is in need of replacing (corrosion on one of the stanchions). But the frame is still in good shape. So I'm considering using the frame as the basis for an xtracycle. So the lifetime of a frame can be very long.

The thing that hurts the reusability of frames (IMO) is that once you need to replace most of the components you might as well buy a new bike. I've already spent as much in upgrades on the hardtail as the bike originally cost.

I question the longetivity of carbon frames which is why my roadbike is an alumunum/carbon SS design. I'm too worried about cracking the toptube or downtube in a crash or locking it to a bike rack.

Even the Xmart bikes can last a while, my old one was converted to a few alternate configurations by the kids until it was stolen (why anyone would steal it was beyond me).

You have a great paper topic. You don't say what level of the education system this paper is for (high school, college?) or what field (economics, urban planning, environmental design?).

I own several bikes, one of which (my urban utility bike) is a 1970s era 12-speed, now upgraded to 16-speed. It has had several bottom brackets and rear wheels, and an upgrade to the entire drive train. The cranks are originals, as are the dia-compe brakes and stem mounted analog shifters. Built of chrome-molybdenum steel, the frame may last forever. But the 27 inch wheels have become difficult to find a really good tire for. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing obsolete about it. With a good tire and chain, it's just as much fun to ride as my custom titanium touring bike.

One thing that bothers me is the extent to which cheap and badly designed bikes that incorporate the latest fashion in frames or suspensions dominate the market. How many mountain bikes are ever ridden in the mountains? They are so not the right bike for fast urban commuting, yet they are the only bike that many Americans own, if they own a bike at all.

Cheap bikes usually contain cheap components that need a lot more maintenance. After a thousand miles, the hubs are probably finished, but instead of being maintained, the entire bike is allowed to deteriorate. Before long, that bad bike becomes a disincentive to a good ride.

Most people who love bikes buy several good ones, and often maintain them very well. Those are the kind of people you will find here.

Have you thought of contacting a bike co-op. Last year, while I was touring, I visited two great bike co-ops in Ohio. The Oberlin Bike Coop (located underneath Keep Coop at Oberlin College in Oberlin, Ohio) is one of the originals. Search for them online at www.oberlin.edu (http://www.oberlin.edu). The Ohio City Bike Co-op in central Cleveland has a mission to recover bicycles and teach city children to ride them safely and maintain them. They are at www.OhioCityCycles.org (http://www.OhioCityCycles.org), and the director's name is Jim. Bike Co-ops often recover the cast-off and forgotten bicycles from garages and dumpsters, giving them a new lease on life.

Howard

An observation - as I walk around downtown, I see a lot of lugged steel frames mostly from the early 80s or earlier. I see far more of these being used than the aluminium mountain bikes that were cranked out by the hundreds of thousands in the 90s. So where are all the bikes made in the late 80s or later?


Anyone who flips bikes can explain this observation. Here is my attempt to articulate it:

Most bike purchases are made by people who are not serious cyclists. Probably most are whim purchases. Since riding a bike actually requires some modest pedalling work, a large percentage of those bikes get ridden a handful of times or a season or a couple of seasons. Then those bikes are left to gather dust in the garage. The owner no longer uses the bike, so it really ought to be sold. But, it will not because it was fairly expensive to begin with and also selling it would be a psychological admission of defeat. So, the dormant bike is kept on for a long time.

Then, at some point the equilibrium shifts. At some point, the shame in selling off the bike is finally outweighed by the silliness of keeping a large metal object in the garage or basement.

In my humble experience, for most people and their garages, this shift takes about 25 years. Finally, they can tell themselves that the bike is old. Finally, they can get rid of it at a loss and not acutely feel like a fool for spending the money in the first place.

Therefore, one should expect to find the bikes that people bought 25 years ago to show up in large numbers at garage sales, thrift stores, and in dumpsters.

So, my paleo-flipper theory predicts that we should be seeing the bikes from 1983 this year. If my memory of bike history is correct, there was a bit of a lag between the wave of bike-boom tenspeeds that crested in about 1980 or so and the rising wave of MTBs that began in 1982 and really did not reach large proportions until 1986 or so. That means we will see all those missing MTBs in large numbers about three years from now.

Come back in 2011 and tell me if my theory is substantiated by observations then.

jim
head of the department of paleobikology

Oh yeah, one more point:

I am also cross-appointed in the department of Bike Nostalgia, and so I should point out that the time lag for lusting after old bikes lags just a little bit behind the bike abandonment wave.

Go peruse the C&V forum. Heretofore, the C&V discussion has almost exclusively been a discussion of road bikes. It takes a while for people to look back fondly on the contraptions of their youth. That crowd (of which I am a proud member) looks at a 1977 Nishiki International (for, example) as a nice bike to own. Maybe because they had one. More likely because they had a Varsity and always coveted the Nishiki the annoying kid down the block owned. We watch a homeless guy cruise down the alley on a rusty Peugeot with upturned handlebars and cringe.

So, if you are hoping to make money flipping those old MTBs need to get ready to pounce, since the window that opens when they flood the market and closes when they are assiduously snatched up by nostalgic codgers is about 5 years. Today, the C&V crowd looks back a few years and wistfully remembers when one could buy a cool lugged frame on Ebay for a song. Those were the glory years of collecting old road bikes from the 70's and 80's.

Get in your starting stance brothers and sisters, there will be a sprint to hoard 1992 GT Tequestas that will last a precious short time.

jim

adjunct professor of Flippery

p.s., I have about 15 such MTBs and frames hanging from my rafters already. You are behind already!

The theory sounds about right, I just picked up a beautiful 1982 Peugeot PH19 Mixte for $40 on CL two months ago. :D

It's my impression (only, no solid data) that it is rare for a bike for wear out. Most hit the trash due to abuse or sit neglected. As other posters have already mentioned, a decent bike will last about as long in years or distance as the owner decides. If bikes were necessary for transportation and if they were expensive in relation to our income, they would last for many years.

Tires, though, might be a different story.

I'm delighted to see that another professor from my university is answering questions here. I have an appointment in the School of Bicycle Business, where we give out the MBA degree (Masters in Bicycle Advertising or Manipulation of Biking Awareness). We want to help our graduates get jobs, so we have to teach them all the ins and outs of the business world, like planned obsolescence.

Back in the late 1980s we realized that bicycles had suddenly become a fashion statement, not a mode of transportation, so we began teaching our students new trends of perception manipulation. We figured, if the bike gets put away after the third time you ride it, why not come out with a never-ending series of high maintenance doo-dads that will stop working after you put the bike into the garage for even one year. The suspension system was born. That way, we could sell a new bike every year, to anyone keen enough to want to try riding.

By the 1990s, we recognized that wheels were the next frontier, so we added bizarre spoke patterns, aerodynamic spokes, biometric cranks, and various silly rims and hubs to accommodate them. Make sure that if it breaks, they have to buy a whole new bike.

So, I hate to throw a wrench in Professor Jim's spokes, but his theory is going to stop working in seven more years, after the last good hard-tail mountain bikes of the 1980s come out of basements and garages. Get the last of those good old bikes while you can.

Professor Howard
Chair of Department of Ethical Manipulations
School of Bicycle Business

You mean we are passing "Peak Bike" now?

Crap

jim

Not to mention that bikes are the real "volkswagon" in that they are very "people repairable."



I just have to take issue with this comment. As an owner of many many American cars that I have easily repaired and restored myself, and also an early 90's Volkswagen Fox that I still have that has been nothing but the bane of my existence every time i have to repair it. From special tools to get out certain bolts (2 out of 3 bolts that hold in the alternator are standard, but one which you cant see because its inside the timing cover, requires a special VW only bit), to an ignition switch setup that practically makes you remove the whole steering column from the car, VW/Audi are the most home mechanic unfriendly cars on the planet. Mechanic friends confirmed they would rather have you bring it to a VW mechanic than fix it yourself as it will always be done "right" and make the cars seem more reliable than they are.

Sorry for going OT, but I would change that comment that bikes are like old American cars, very "people repairable".

props on that. if we remember what we (didn't) learn in school, waste generation and resource consumption is reduced using the "4 r's" model. that is, in order of effectiveness:

reduce: the amount you consume. bike co-ops put a dent in the demand for new bikes -- especially cheap, x-mart new bikes -- by offering refurbished rides at good prices (at my co-op it's $15 for the bike plus $5 per part you want to change or add). every 1980's raleigh that gets bought at the co-op is one more brand new piece of crap that will break in two years that's not being bought from a chain store.
reuse: old stuff instead of throwing it away. when you see the kids coming out of the co-op on a bike older than they are, that's reuse.
recycle: what you would otherwise have to throw away. all bike co-ops i know of ship the unusable metal and other stuff off to some scrap metal joint.
recover: waste material into energy. this is the one 'r' that bike co-ops really fail at. i am trying to convince my local co-op to install an incinerator so we can burn torn saddles and old bar tape to run an electrical generator... but people keep blocking.

i wish we had a co op like that around here they ask some stupid prices for bikes that need well over 50$ to 100$ in parts you all know this place as Working Bikes the labor rate is beyond ridiculous too

I'm delighted to see that another professor from my university is answering questions here. I have an appointment in the School of Bicycle Business, where we give out the MBA degree (Masters in Bicycle Advertising or Manipulation of Biking Awareness). We want to help our graduates get jobs, so we have to teach them all the ins and outs of the business world, like planned obsolescence.

Back in the late 1980s we realized that bicycles had suddenly become a fashion statement, not a mode of transportation, so we began teaching our students new trends of perception manipulation. We figured, if the bike gets put away after the third time you ride it, why not come out with a never-ending series of high maintenance doo-dads that will stop working after you put the bike into the garage for even one year. The suspension system was born. That way, we could sell a new bike every year, to anyone keen enough to want to try riding.

By the 1990s, we recognized that wheels were the next frontier, so we added bizarre spoke patterns, aerodynamic spokes, biometric cranks, and various silly rims and hubs to accommodate them. Make sure that if it breaks, they have to buy a whole new bike.

So, I hate to throw a wrench in Professor Jim's spokes, but his theory is going to stop working in seven more years, after the last good hard-tail mountain bikes of the 1980s come out of basements and garages. Get the last of those good old bikes while you can.

Professor Howard
Chair of Department of Ethical Manipulations
School of Bicycle Business

I hate to break it to you professor, but there are still plenty of non-trendy frames and components out there if you are willing to look. Further most of the trendy bikes that you deride are usually ridden tens of thousands of miles by enthusiasts who may just have different goals and expectations of their equipment than your idealized 1980's hard tail mountain bike.

I just have to take issue with this comment. As an owner of many many American cars that I have easily repaired and restored myself, and also an early 90's Volkswagen Fox that I still have that has been nothing but the bane of my existence every time i have to repair it.The person you were replying to was talking about "the real volkswagen." A real Volkswagen is air-cooled, such as the Type 1 (aka "Beetle") or Type 2 (aka "Bus"). Those real VWs really were easy for people to work on. For example, my boss tells me that a person could lift the engine into and out of a Beetle without a hoist or other equipment.

props on that. if we remember what we (didn't) learn in school, waste generation and resource consumption is reduced using the "4 r's" model. that is, in order of effectiveness:

reduce: the amount you consume. bike co-ops put a dent in the demand for new bikes -- especially cheap, x-mart new bikes -- by offering refurbished rides at good prices (at my co-op it's $15 for the bike plus $5 per part you want to change or add). every 1980's raleigh that gets bought at the co-op is one more brand new piece of crap that will break in two years that's not being bought from a chain store.
reuse: old stuff instead of throwing it away. when you see the kids coming out of the co-op on a bike older than they are, that's reuse.
recycle: what you would otherwise have to throw away. all bike co-ops i know of ship the unusable metal and other stuff off to some scrap metal joint.
recover: waste material into energy. this is the one 'r' that bike co-ops really fail at. i am trying to convince my local co-op to install an incinerator so we can burn torn saddles and old bar tape to run an electrical generator... but people keep blocking.

Some of the local shops don't like us and one in particular would rather toss serviceable bikes in the metal bin than send them to us or have us pick them up as we do put a big dent in their business although we do send folks there for parts we don't have in stock.

We visit their dumpster regularly. :D

This bike was built completely from recycled and salvaged parts with the exception of the new tyres, rear spokes, and newchain. The bars are wrapped with cloth (hockey tape actually) and shellacked which is both economical, long wearing, and environmentally friendly.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/ccmpath4.jpg
1940 CCM

This bike was also built with recycled / salvaged parts and the only part that was purchased new was the chain and brake pads.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/bridgettenewbars1.jpg
1962 Peugeot

This bike is 75 years old and is in remarkably food shape.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/1933CCMnew1.jpg
1933 CCM Rambler

Shall I go on ?

:D

I just have to take issue with this comment. As an owner of many many American cars that I have easily repaired and restored myself, and also an early 90's Volkswagen Fox that I still have that has been nothing but the bane of my existence every time i have to repair it. From special tools to get out certain bolts (2 out of 3 bolts that hold in the alternator are standard, but one which you cant see because its inside the timing cover, requires a special VW only bit), to an ignition switch setup that practically makes you remove the whole steering column from the car, VW/Audi are the most home mechanic unfriendly cars on the planet. Mechanic friends confirmed they would rather have you bring it to a VW mechanic than fix it yourself as it will always be done "right" and make the cars seem more reliable than they are.

Sorry for going OT, but I would change that comment that bikes are like old American cars, very "people repairable".

So, is that unfriendliness due to the car design or the fact that the design is not as friendly in the market where you use the car? I drove my 71 VW bug 235,000 miles - bought it new as a result of my having swallowed the marketing hype about what a tough (if ugly) little car it was. I paid for every one of those miles because, compared to US made cars (and I live in the US), service for the bug was best left to the dealer or, at least, someone who specialized in the VW.

If I knew then what I know now, I could have run those 235k miles much more economically (and many who were, at the time, more mechanically inclined than I did just that).

We could disagree with the previous poster's analogy on a factual basis, but the VW was marketed with the image he/she painted, and it's the analogy that probably adds meaning to his/her post.

If I knew when I bought that VW how much cheaper and more pleasing it would have been to purchase a lowly manual shift Dodge dart, I could have owned a bigger, more comfortable car that would have been cheaper for me to run, with fuel economy that met or exceeded that of the VW.

Owning the VW taught me to take care of my cars. It wasn't perfect - cylinder #3 caused the engine to need a valve job every 80k miles or so. Owning my Spirit of 76 model Dodge Dart (slant six 4 on the floor) taught me that properly maintained "junk" from Detroit could be economical and fun to drive for as many or more miles than the imported stuff (put 300,000 miles on that car before giving it to my sister who added another 100,000) and I could fit my '74 Schwinn LeTour in the trunk with room to spare.

Caruso

The Chrysler slant 6 was one of trhe best engines ever designed and it was sad they were housed in such poor cars... they were smooth running, offered reasonable power and were relatively economical to operate.

I owned two cars with these engines and they were pretty much bombproof.

To the OP:
There is much offered here that should head you on your way to a good paper. With respect to how long a bike will last, my guess is that most bikes, even the 'walleyworld cheapies' are built to last forever if given even basic care. In my lifetime, I have owned three bikes, personally, and have purchased another half dozen for other members of my family. None ever wore out. My son abused his mountain bike, running it through mud and sand (without telling dear old dad who would have run him through the same mud and sand!!). Because he kept that harsh treatment a secret, the bike feels and rides like a piece of junk. OTOH, if I replaced the BB, replaced/lubed cables, chain, cogs and chainrings, it could be brought back to as good as new status. That will not happen by my hand, because my son is grown, now, and going through that period in his life where riding a bike is not an avid pastime. He still likes to ride, however, and no doubt will catch that bug at some future date. But the bike has always been garage kept and will, no doubt, outlast both of us.

I spent more upgrading my Schwinn LeTour than it was worth when I rediscovered biking for myself almost a decade ago. A new and better drive train, lighter, more modern wheels, new seat, clipless pedals, etc. make it one very capable road bike. I probably put a couple thousand miles on it when I was in college, another 10k after upgrading it in its second life, and, now, it sits unused except when I want to go riding with one of my grown children when they visit.

I will leave it to them or their children along with other well-cared for, but worthless possessions, one day.

My new (couple years old) bike, a GIANT TCR carries me 3000 or so miles per year. I regard it as indestructible, and am not concerned about UV damage. I don't store it in the sun, only ride it in the sun (on sunny days). It will not rust, and, unless I crash it, doubt that the frame will ever wear out.

I crashed my Cannondale cross/disc, and the crossbar and downtube both folded. The frame of that bike now hangs from the ceiling at my LBS as a reminder that cycling has its risks. I visit the shop often to testify by my presence that the risk is a reasonable one.

So, my answer to your question would be that almost all bikes will last forever unless their owner decides otherwise or until they get smashed in an accident (I think you could say the same about cars, too).

Caruso