Pacific Northwest - WA State Gov. needs MORE money!

Just saw on the morning news WA state will start charging tax (~9%) on online purchases now! But wait, there's more! A new gas tax that was passed in the last couple years will also take effect adding 1.5 cents per gallon of gasoline. Is it just me or is the average Joe (or Jill) getting hosed more and more each day?! What's next?! A state income tax?! I love this state, but come on! Not everyone here works for Microsoft.

So my question is this: What sacrifices are the common consumer (like you or I) going to have to make?

I know I've started commuting a couple days a week. Not because I cant afford to drive, I just wanted to stick it to big oil... :notamused:

I just wanted to stick it to big oil... :notamused:

You're actually sticking it to the state; they get far more money per gallon than the oil companies do.

It's not just Washington that's looking for the sales taxes; it's just about every state in the union. Accusing Washington lawmakers of taking this action in a vacuum is disingenuous. Internet retailers that have a physical presence in this state, like Amazon and Microsoft, are already required to, and do, collect sales tax on the items you purchase. The proposal, which must pass the United States Senate, would extend this to all Internet purchases. If you don't like it, write to your Senator and Representative. I also suggest you look up the definition of Use Tax.

The 1.5 cent gasoline increase is the final installment of a 9.5 cent gas increase that was voted in by the residents of Washington State during the elections of 2005. The purpose of that tax is to increase or provide funding for nearly 300 projects over 16 years. Washington State's gas tax is now 37.5 cents per gallon, which is a minuscule percentage of the overall price of gasoline, and only costs the average driver (12,000 miles/year, 20 miles/gal) a little more than $200/year. The tax has only been in place for a few years. If you expected magic improvements to roads and transit as soon as you started paying the tax, I suggest that you go back to your Happy Place and stay there. Most of the rest of us are a little more realistic.

I started riding for my health and, to a lesser extent, to have more money to spend on things I wanted more than gasoline. If you're riding for revenge, fine, but please try to be a little realistic about where the state is going to get the funding to pay for things like education, law enforcement, transportation and infrastructure, etc.

If you're buying things online and you want to avoid the sales tax, figure out how much the tax would be first. Then determine if it's cheaper to have the item shipped to a FedEx Kinko's in PDX and 4-day ground shipped to you in Washington.
I used to do something similar in Ohio with places that charged Ohio sales tax for online purchases. I lived right across the river from Kentucky, so I'd ship it to a MailBoxes or FedEx there and go pick it up.

Very nicely put. We all have to pay taxes. You are right. If one is to rant about a subject. Please be informed of the issue before spreading uninformed opinions. Personally I don't mind paying taxes as long as they are used in a way to better our living.

My life has gotten so hard that have to start riding my bike to work! The inhumanity!

You're actually sticking it to the state; they get far more money per gallon than the oil companies do.

Somehow, I doubt that this is true. Look at oil company revenues and profits and convince me that they're making less than 37.5 cents per gallon on that gasoline. The final retailer (the gas station), sure, but not the big oil companies.

Wow, I'm surprised at some of the responses this got. Sounds like gas prices up 2 fold, food prices and pretty much everything else on the rise doesn't effect most of you like it does me!

Maybe it's because most of you are in their late adulthood and more financially secure?

Maybe I'm looking at things from a younger perspective. $200 a year in gas increase IS a lot of money. Maybe not for you but for a lot of people it is.
Gary McCune (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=31197):
"...We all have to pay taxes. You are right. If one is to rant about a subject. Please be informed of the issue before spreading uninformed opinions. Personally I don't mind paying taxes as long as they are used in a way to better our living."

What exactly was my uninformed opinion? Did I say we shouldn't have to pay taxes???

I guess I should have put a note on my post; "to those who are effected by the current state of the economy" I'll try and be more specific next time I post.

It seems like the 1.5 cent tax is the least of your problem, gas prices are going up 10 to 30 cents a gallon per week due to the price of crude on the market. The increase in gas tax is NOT the problem you express, it's the price of crude oil.

We all want roads fixed, built, expanded, snow removed, flood damage fixed quickly, marked, paved and bridges built. We all have to pay for that, if current tax is not enough, we have to pay more to cover it, regardless of our personal finances, that's life.

Seems like your anger is misplaced, it's not state government's problem you should be mad about. As long as we demand services, the state will have to collect revenue to pay for it, pretty simple really.

If prices keep going up when are we going to start paying people a decent wage? How about some medical/dental benefits?

Now that is pretty simple really.

Now that's a more reasonable question, and one with a relatively easy answer. Wages will go up when employers can't find qualified people to work at the current wage. Supply and demand. If you're not getting paid what you think is a living or sustainable wage, then you need to find another job, possibly in another line of work or in another area. Remember, though, that wages are a part of the cost equation so when your wages go up, expect the cost of the things you purchase to increase as well.

The long-term answer to your question/problem is education and a willingness to work.

If prices keep going up when are we going to start paying people a decent wage? How about some medical/dental benefits?

Now that is pretty simple really.

Pretty simply called Statism. Afterall who is the "we" in this case? What is a "decent" wage?

Pretty simply called Statism. Afterall who is the "we" in this case? What is a "decent" wage?

Yeah, I love it when someone complains about how it's hard for a single parent to raise a family of 4 on minimum wage or something equally absurd.

... do I get to complain about how hard it is to afford a Ferrari on a mere wage slave's salary? :roflmao2:

I'm not suggesting that people don't have legitimate difficulties due to unforeseen hardships, just that sometimes these arguments get muddled with a ridiculous sense of entitlement. Can't afford kids? Don't have them! It's really quite simple.

It's high time for a state income tax. For real.

Outrageous sales tax is economic suicide. It's way too easy for people to go to Oregon for major purchases, and they do in droves.

Can't afford kids? Don't have them! It's really quite simple.

Perhaps if we as a nation could get our heads out of our behinds and demand real sex education, universal health care, and affordable child care people who "can't afford" to have children would place less of a strain on the system.

Yeah, I love it when someone complains about how it's hard for a single parent to raise a family of 4 on minimum wage or something equally absurd.

Can't afford kids? Don't have them! It's really quite simple.

A comment straight off talk radio and Fox Republican News. So simple to say, and it sounds so right, but totally leaves out 2 million realities that real people face in horror.

Example, 51 year old with 18 years service to one company, two kids in high school, one in middle school. Company sends work off shore, lays off 95% on workforce, files for chapter 11 bankruptcy and terminates retirement plan for all. Man looks for 1.5 years for job, gets one at 1/3 previous salary. Owners buy new BMW M3

Answer, reidconti? "It's really quite simple, Can't afford kids? Don't have them! Rush might agree.

So now everyone who advocates any kind of responsible behavior at all is tarred with the dittohead brush? Damn, if only republicans are allowed common sense, I guess I have to change my voter registration.

The fact of the matter is that kids cost a lot of money, and it doesn't seem like a decision to be undertaken lightly. Even in a world of perfect free health insurance. If you wouldn't buy a house on which you can barely afford the mortgage, without having plans for what to do if you lost your job, why are kids any different? At least it's legal to sell a house :)

But congrats on making me feel compelled to respond to your lashing out by turning me into an utterly ridiculous straw man fabrication of your own design.

I do, in fact, support universal health care. And, for that matter, real sex ed.

Where does that leave us? I'm not really sure. What is it that you want me to say? That everyone should have as many kids as they want, that every penny of raising them should be footed by the state? I just don't agree with that, but I don't see how it makes me (horror) some nasty republican. Now I understand where all the nutjob right-wingers get off when they say the left is full of intolerance. Voice an even slightly different view and get banished to the corner? Thanks.

I do believe that children are the future. I think that our public schools are in a sorry state; if anything needs more funding, it's our schools, followed by health care. I recognize that today's children benefit everyone's future, not just their parents'.

But how does any of that change the reality that kids cost money to raise, jobs are not for life, and you shouldn't spend every penny you make?

Back on topic, for those who can debate actual issues instead of caricatures...

marqueemoon, about the state income tax..

I'm not sure how good of an idea that is. It seems that the lack of a state income tax is a big draw for people to move to WA from out of state. It makes it a much more attractive place to live. If anything, Oregon's lack of sales tax is the bigger aberration, as that is rarer (5 states versus 7 with no income tax). I'm not sure how much money is really lost to WA residents buying stuff in Portland; sure, people talk about it, but for most purchases it's not really cost-effective or convenient enough, especially for those who live in the large population centers, and especially as gas prices rise.

I think the consequences of a high sales tax are more immediate, where the consequences of implementing a state income tax would be recognized much more slowly but perhaps no less disastrously. Purchases out of state only cause lost tax revenue on that purchase, people moving out of state (or avoiding moving to the state) affect the labor pool, sales tax revenues, property tax revenues, property values, fuel tax revenues, and on and on and on.

A quick glance at the state sales tax rates shows that WA's tax rate, while high, is not exactly absurd or out of line with other populous states. And yes, I'm aware that King County's sales tax rate is just a hair shy of 9% now.
http://www.taxadmin.org/FTA/rate/sales.html

Very nicely put. We all have to pay taxes. You are right. If one is to rant about a subject. Please be informed of the issue before spreading uninformed opinions. Personally I don't mind paying taxes as long as they are used in a way to better our living.

Has government made our lives 66% better since 2001? Because that's how much state spending has increased during that time. I also don't mind paying taxes for necessary things, what I don't like is when the politicians fund their pet projects first, then cry poor when the schools, parks or police/fire need funding.

Shouldn't this be over in P&R?

+1 on P&R.

Too regional for P+R, but perhaps some find it too OT for here. Especially since only about 3 posts (in my quick skim) have anything to do with cycling :)

.. and if it's gonna be too ad hominem then it's not really useful or interesting anywhere.

- reid

Closing this thread wasn't an easy decision. It's not really right for P&R, but it's also bound to cause more hurt and trouble amongst us than I think it's worth. Had it been more bicycling/bicycle related, I would have kept it open.

On the other hand, I must complement PNW'ers for some intelligent and some incredibly polite political posts. We rock! :thumb: