Classic & Vintage - Building A Porteur Bike: Advice?

So I purchased this 76 Schwinn Sports Tourer of CL when I ws visiting Portland, and now that I've moved here, I'd like to try making it a porteur-style SS city bike. I'll tell you guys/gals what I have planned, and feel free to give opinions/tips/tell me I'm crazy, etc.

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm439/501blue/CIMG2584.jpg

First things first, the wheels are steel. I'd like to find some approximately period correct alloy rims, and just try redishing the rear wheel. Anyone have some they'd like to get rid of? Otherwise, I was thinking just getting something like a set of Weinmann LP18s with suzue or formula hubs. I think that's be cheaper than me removing the current Normandy hubs and having new wheels built (I'm just not up to building my own wheels yet).

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm439/501blue/CIMG2588.jpg

Any one have any suggestions regarding that? I'd like to keep wheel costs under $200. Also, should I switch to 700 wheels, I know that will will give me way more options for tires, but I'm not sure about brake reach.

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm439/501blue/CIMG2585.jpg

Since I'm mentioning wheels, I'm also having a member make me some swell wooden fenders, for some serious class, and to bring out the brooks.

As far as drivetrain, I'll probably buy a BMX SS freewheel for the back, and remove as much as i can
from the chainring set in front. Hopefully chainline will be decent, but I can mess with that if necessary.

Of course, you can't have a porteur without the handlebars and inverse levers. The Nitto Montmarte bars look perfect, but are sold out, at least at velo orange.http://www.velo-orange.com/vomoha.html
I don't think the Promenade or Dove bars will work. Has anyone tried the albatross bars or something else?

As far as the levers, I figured these dia compes
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-84224226242177_2009_1818356 (http://www.velo-orange.com/diacoinbrle.html)
They look decent, but are plastic. Or these ones (a little nicer) but not very vintage looking http://www.velo-orange.com/siinbrle.html

And lastly, the front rack. Anyone building any wooden racks, or know of any for sale?

Thanks alot for any ideas or comments.

And lastly, the front rack. Anyone building any wooden racks, or know of any for sale?Paul makes the Flatbed (http://www.paulcomp.com/frmbasket.html). The only problem is it's made of aluminum, and has a 25 pound load carrying limit.

I'm pretty sure there are steel racks with wood slats out there, I'm just not sure who has them.

harriscyclery.net makes a set of 27" wheels for $155. They've got a number of choices for tires, too.

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels1.html#630

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/630.html

They built me a set of wheels using Sun rims and Formula hubs. I put them on my Raleigh Sprite ss/fg. Very shiny, glossy look just like old steel rims.


Nice front racks HERE (http://www.passstow.com/psabout.html), HERE (http://cetmaracks.com/index.html), HERE (http://racknroll.blogspot.com/)

Nice website for your porteuring pleasure: http://lockringnotincluded.blogspot.com/2008/02/porteur-rack-pics.html

Velo-orange has some good rack options made of steel. http://www.velo-orange.com/voporteurrack.html

Nitto makes a couple of front racks but they are more for front bags than carrying pizzas.

Check out the wood porteur rack on the Capricorn Porteur bike. scroll down a bit. http://www.flickr.com/photos/shortpants51/

http://www.capricornbicycles.com/

http://blogs.phred.org/blogs/alex_wetmore/default.aspx

loads of pics of Kogswell's P/R bike with racks. http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/plugins/falbum/wp/album.php?tags=iraryan&page=3

I'd contact Kogswell about where to get those racks.

http://blog.edelbikes.com/

http://www.ahearnecycles.com/pages/josephtouring.html

I'm sure the custom guys can make you a nice wooden rack.

Welcome to Portland! I moved here from Columbus (Clintonville) in 2005. That Schwinn would be a good platform for building a city bike, IMHO.

You probably already know that your cranks are Nervar 5 Vis cranks that share a bolt circle with Stronglight 49 and TA Pro 5 Vis cranks. If you wanted to get TA or Stronglight rings for a different look, they are available. Personally I like Nervar's stuff. Their rings look nice, and you also have the cool alloy chain guard that goes on it. The Nervar cranks use "standard" 10mm chainring bolts so you should be able to remove all the other rings except the outer one, and get a set of double ring bolts to keep the chain guard. You may have to leave a spacer on the back of the crank, but that's not a big deal.

I don't know what your budget is for racks, but the coolest racks in town in my opinion are from Joseph Ahearne. They're hand-built in Portland and NOT cheap (hey, they're art) but they are incredible:

http://www.ahearnecycles.com/pages/racksgallery.html

He also makes some of the most stunning frames around.

I have Velo Orange fluted fenders on my Peugeot and get compliments on them all the time. If you decide against the wood fenders, I highly recommend them.

As for wheels... you should have no problem fitting 700C wheels. Your brakes look like they have plenty of reach left. Even if not, a set of MAFAC racers will run you less than $20. To look at wheels, I'd suggest heading down to Citybikes:

http://www.citybikes.coop/

They have two locations about 10 blocks from each other. You want to go to the one that's in the neighborhood, basically built into the hill. It's the 1914 Ankeny location. They always have a bunch of prebuilt wheels hanging in the front window. Usually very decent prices and no sales tax and no shipping. :) They will also build wheels to spec for you. Sellwood Cycles (http://sellwoodcycle.com/) are also known as very excellent wheel builders in town. If you decide to have someone build you a set of wheels you can probably save a bunch of money by either re-using those Normandy hubs on your Schwinn, or heading down to the Recyclery (http://www.therecyclery.com/) and digging through the used hubs to find a decent set. They usually sell hubs for $5 apiece or so. Pick up some Sunshine or Shimano 333 high flange hubs and you will be happy with them on the cheaper end of the scale. If you want to spend more money, ask at Citybikes or the Recyclery and I'm sure they'll sell you a set of Campagnolo hubs. You can probably get $20-25 for your steel wheels on CL.

Hope that helps! Have fun. PM me if you need more local bike resources.

Karl

I totally missed that the OP has moved to Portland! Welcome!

Maybe we should have a Portland C&V get together sometime. You know there's a monthly vintage ride here in the summer? I've never gone, and won't, until I get one of my road bikes back on the road. Still, I'd be up for a Portland C&V get together sometime. :thumb:

Back on topic: I'm planning my own porteur build (for a winter project, after some other projects get finished.), based on a low-end Canadian-made Raleigh mountain bike. Actually, two of them, one a diamond frame, the other a mixte. Both will be grocery getters. I have serious doubts that porteurs are the most effective way to carry a load, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do yet.

Maybe we should have a Portland C&V get together sometime. You know there's a monthly vintage ride here in the summer? I've never gone, and won't, until I get one of my road bikes back on the road. Still, I'd be up for a Portland C&V get together sometime. :thumb:

Never been, either. I'd be up for a vintage get together for C&V BB'ers. There seem to be a number of us Portlanders on here. I've got a couple of friends with cool vintage steel I could probably convince to come along. Particularly if beer is involved. ;)

Karl

Never been, either. I'd be up for a vintage get together for C&V BB'ers. There seem to be a number of us Portlanders on here. I've got a couple of friends with cool vintage steel I could probably convince to come along. Particularly if beer is involved. ;)

KarlYep, a pub meet would be good. :thumb:

I'm going to feel awkward though if I don't get my own vintage steel on the road, though. Right now, all that's up and running is my '91 GT Karakoram. Cool vintage steel in my eyes, but not quite right for a C&V meet up. Maybe I should move something cool to the head of the build line...

Of course, you can't have a porteur without the handlebars and inverse levers. The Nitto Montmarte bars look perfect, but are sold out, at least at velo orange.http://www.velo-orange.com/vomoha.html
I don't think the Promenade or Dove bars will work. Has anyone tried the albatross bars or something else?


I just got a set of chromo Nitto North Roads, which take bar end shifters, and therefore, inverse levers too. They are very similar to the Albatross, if not the same. I can't remember the model number, but do a search and you should be able to find it. There are a few different kinds, but the ones I have are steel, have rise and are very wide.

you'd need to go 650B for true working bike porteur style
here's a duded up Le Tour
http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images3/cc317-2phprjQNi8PM.jpg

Nitto Albatross bars in steel or aluminum will work with inverse levers. The dove bar is thick walled and will not. The Cinelli Priest bar is the same outside diameter as road bars and will only work with inverse levers. I own or have owned all of them. Heat treated 7/8" aluminum bars can have thin walls like steel bars, but they're expensive. The VO Montmarte and Left Bank are 24mm o.d. like the Cinellis, so you have to use inverse levers.

I'm ordering my inverse levers from Soma. They're actually the same as the Tektro levers, but I think that the Soma Logo is cooler than the Tektro logo.

Levi and I have talked a bit about a few of these examples, but here's some porteurs I've built over the past few years:

My current ride is a 70s St. Etienne powdercoated black and converted to 650B. I also put a fork with more rake and English threading on it. In this shot, I had just come home from the toy store:
http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/PorteurLoad1.jpg

This St. Etienne replaced a smaller one that I had built with 700c wheels. It's shown here with a wooden chainguard, DiaCompe inverse levers, Belleri bars from V-O (before they ran out!), and a WALD giant delivery basket cut down and modded with a wooden platform:
http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/PorteurOld1.jpg

Last is a 1971 Raleigh SuperCourse modded with wooden fenders, Soma Sparrow bars and inverse levers, Simplex chainguard, a Nashbar front rack, and a wooden platform:
http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/SCPorteur3.jpg

Neal

Not wood, but nice porteur racks nonetheless:

Velo Orange Porteur Rack (http://www.velo-orange.com/voporteurrack.html)

12-pack Rack (http://www.flickr.com/photos/twwilliams/sets/72157601089565440/)

Neal I like those! Nice job. Makes me want to start in on it myself... too many projects though.

Karl

Thanks for all the advice. Those ahearne racks are nice, but out of my range at this time. The velo orange one is nice, and the six pack rack. I'll check city bikes for the wheels (nice people, I've been there before), but if not, does anyone have any experience with these harris cyclery rims that b battle mentioned?
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels1.html#630
Should I be scared of single walls?
Also the left bank, priest, and albatross bars are all good suggestions. Maybe I could find a set at city bikes also.
I'll let you all know how it goes, and post pics.
Also, I'd be down for a vintage ride, as long as my 86 miyata is old enough.

Kogswell intends to manufacturer a front porteur rack plus fork combo (or rack alone though it'll be designed to fit the Kogswell P/R frame) at a very good price--something around $110. I'm not sure of the ETA.

Neal

I have serious doubts that porteurs are the most effective way to carry a load, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do yet.

Huh? I thought that porteur bikes are basically for carrying. It means carrier in Français, n'est-ce pas?

A great porteur site from Joel Metz: http://www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/velos.html

Neal

more porteur racks here: http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/gallery/2400164#130234970


If you're hauling big loads I can't think of a better bike than the Surly Big Dummy.

Dude, you got ripped off on the wheels. Somebody switched the alloy rims (probably weinmann) laced to Normandy Competition hubs that came on the bike (at least that is what was on my '74) for some varsinental wheels. Not a big deal, though the normandy comps might have been worth reusing for your project.

As on most schwinns of this period, one brake is long reach and one is short reach (I don't remember which is which). In my experience, you will need both brakes to be long reach in order to reach 700c rims. Not really a problem, since your LBS probably has boxes full of these brakes that were taken off fixie conversions. 650B conversion, as suggested by other posters, would of course require much longer brake reach and somewhat compromised braking power.

And for your tire-size planning, my '74 will accept up to a 700x35 (measured actual width) on the back with fenders, with the axle most of the way back in the dropout.

Dude, you got ripped off on the wheels. Somebody switched the alloy rims (probably weinmann) laced to Normandy Competition hubs that came on the bike (at least that is what was on my '74) for some varsinental wheels. Not a big deal, though the normandy comps might have been worth reusing for your project.

Shows what I know about Schwinns. :) Were they the Schwinn "Deluxe" hubs?

As for single wall rims, I wouldn't worry about it. Sure they're not as durable. But unless you're doing something crazy they'll be fine around town. Something sturdier would be better, of course. Like at Citybikes where you can get inexpensive wheels built with Formula hubs and double wall rims. But single wall was just fine in the vintage period and worked pretty well. Alloys have only gotten better.

I know nothing about the wheels from Harris in particular.

Karl

I ordered a rack from this concern (in SF I think?)
http://cetmaracks.com/

This St. Etienne replaced a smaller one that I had built with 700c wheels. It's shown here with a wooden chainguard, DiaCompe inverse levers, Belleri bars from V-O (before they ran out!), and a WALD giant delivery basket cut down and modded with a wooden platform:
http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/PorteurOld1.jpg



Hey Neal, did you have to modify or make extensions for the Wald basket mounts at the handlebar end to make it sit roughly level? I just mounted the same basket to one of my bikes, and to get it to sit almost level, I had to lower the stem significantly and use the lowest holes on the fork mounts. Consequently, the basket doesn't sit as low as what I'd like; the mounts just don't have enough length to them! Granted, my bike is a 62cm, so the headtube is obviously longer than on your bike. I am trying to come up with a way to modify or add to the mounts so I can a) run the stem higher and b) make the rack sit closer to the top of the mudguard. I'll post a few pictures when I get a chance.
Cheers,

Leigh

Thanks a lot, everyone! I really didn't need a new idea, or idee fixe if you will, rattling around in head, but my utility Bianchi Mountain bike commuter with rear rack just died the other day (seat stays broke up by the seat tube, not at the welds, though, they held well), and the next day this thread pops up. And as Special Agent Dale S. Cooper said, "Gentlemen. When two separate events occur simultaneously pertaining to the same object of inquiry we must always pay strict attention." I just happen to be finishing up an old Gitane that I am putting Nitto Albatrosses on, and the idea of a $200 monster rack on a $15 thrift store bike tickles my fondness for the absurd.

So thanks again, a lot, and I look forward to seeing the progress this Schwinn makes.

Huh? I thought that porteur bikes are basically for carrying. It means carrier in Français, n'est-ce pas?That's exactly what they're for.

But what I was referring to was the stability of the bike while carrying a load. Jim Blackburn tested various load placements, and the most stable configuration for a front load was a front low-rider rack and panniers. It seems to me that a load high above the wheel like the porteur rack would therefore be a less stable configuration.

I'm going to experiment some and see if I can rig a porteur rack which carries panniers low and still has a flat rack for carrying larger loads home from the Farmer's Market (the main purpose of my planned porteur-- actually, planned twin porteurs, his & hers-- will be a grocery-getter for the Farmer's Market.)


porteur...It means carrier in Français, n'est-ce pas?Oh, did I mention that the porteurs I'm planning are based on a Canadian-made Raleigh mountain bike, the Portage? :D

Hey Neal, did you have to modify or make extensions for the Wald basket mounts at the handlebar end to make it sit roughly level? I just mounted the same basket to one of my bikes, and to get it to sit almost level, I had to lower the stem significantly and use the lowest holes on the fork mounts. Consequently, the basket doesn't sit as low as what I'd like; the mounts just don't have enough length to them! Granted, my bike is a 62cm, so the headtube is obviously longer than on your bike. I am trying to come up with a way to modify or add to the mounts so I can a) run the stem higher and b) make the rack sit closer to the top of the mudguard. I'll post a few pictures when I get a chance.
Cheers,

Leigh

I did not have to modify those brackets that hang from the bars, but you could see for the headtube and stem length of this bike, it's was a perfect fit to have the rack sit right over the front fender (and I have those brackets at their max extension). With a 62cm frame, I'm not sure how many options you have other than to hack the existing brackets. Perhaps you can fabricate a decaleur of some sort that'll hang from the bars or the stem bolt? I'm going to do something along those lines with some stock aluminum bar to make a mounting system for an old leather camera bag to be modified as a handlebar bag.

Neal

Dude, you got ripped off on the wheels.

Yeah I know, it was sort of an impulse buy, and i needed a bike right then. Bummer though, I bet the original wheels are pretty nice.

That's exactly what they're for.

But what I was referring to was the stability of the bike while carrying a load. Jim Blackburn tested various load placements, and the most stable configuration for a front load was a front low-rider rack and panniers. It seems to me that a load high above the wheel like the porteur rack would therefore be a less stable configuration.

I'm going to experiment some and see if I can rig a porteur rack which carries panniers low and still has a flat rack for carrying larger loads home from the Farmer's Market (the main purpose of my planned porteur-- actually, planned twin porteurs, his & hers-- will be a grocery-getter for the Farmer's Market.)

Oh, did I mention that the porteurs I'm planning are based on a Canadian-made Raleigh mountain bike, the Portage? :D

check this out--
porteur style portage with removable frt pannier supports
best of both worlds
http://racknroll.blogspot.com

Heres a classic, from ebay Italy.

http://i6.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/19/b4/5aa7_1.JPG

What is the rationale for the inverse brake levers?

If you want a custom front rack, contact Ira Ryan (http://www.iraryancycles.com/). He specializes in porteur racks and he is in Portland. He'll take your fork and build you a rack. I'm not sure of his prices, but they are likely competitive. BTW, that Sports Tourer is very nice!

Note to Neal: That St. Etienne is great! I really love the Wald conversion... took a low-budget basket classed it up and made it more functional!

What is the rationale for the inverse brake levers?

they arent inverse.
those are rod actuated, no cables

Thanks and thanks! I was just getting back started on this thing, and recently polished up the front normandy hub (see the iso wtb thread for pics).


If you want a custom front rack, contact Ira Ryan (http://www.iraryancycles.com/). He specializes in porteur racks and he is in Portland. He'll take your fork and build you a rack. I'm not sure of his prices, but they are likely competitive. BTW, that Sports Tourer is very nice!

This St. Etienne replaced a smaller one that I had built with 700c wheels. It's shown here with a wooden chainguard, DiaCompe inverse levers, Belleri bars from V-O (before they ran out!), and a WALD giant delivery basket cut down and modded with a wooden platform:
http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/PorteurOld1.jpg



Neal

Like others, I'm pretty intrigued by that basket. But I'm wondering what, if anything, you've come up with to rust-proof the wires where you cut through the galvanizing. Nail polish? Epoxy?

Like others, I'm pretty intrigued by that basket. But I'm wondering what, if anything, you've come up with to rust-proof the wires where you cut through the galvanizing. Nail polish? Epoxy?

I'm afraid it's long sold off, so I haven't done anything specifically. Were I to do that mod again, I'd probably put a dab of silver primer or nail polish or some such on the cut-off points.

Neal

Like others, I'm pretty intrigued by that basket. But I'm wondering what, if anything, you've come up with to rust-proof the wires where you cut through the galvanizing. Nail polish? Epoxy?

so thers the inverse levers icenine mentioned
oops sorry

Not a good photo, but here's my porteur-ish 1981 Apollo Gran Sport:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2637918658_3cc022a062_o.jpg

It has since been changed from a fixed gear to a single speed, and now has a nice set of old Campy Record calipers.

I'm afraid it's long sold off, so I haven't done anything specifically. Were I to do that mod again, I'd probably put a dab of silver primer or nail polish or some such on the cut-off points.

Neal

You can buy cold galvanizing compound in spray cans.

inverse breaking levers put the most breaking power/leverage at your pointer finger, which i guess is the strongest finger. Not sure if it makes a difference in practice, though.

^^^^^so how are you progressing with this project already? how about an update? although I shouldn't complain, my entry for thye velo-cheapo contest is still totally disassembled, and the bearings have been soaking in pedro's degreaser so long the solution has completely evaporated.

So after some Christmas gifts (thanks mom, bro, and gf!) I have bars, wheels, tires, and hubs. Still need to get the wheels built, and Neal is working on fenders for me. I finally borrowed to tools to take apart the BB today, but it looks like bad news:
http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm439/501blue/CIMG2763.jpg

I guess we can all agree the spindle is trashed? Also, why only six bearings?
It seems the general sentiment is to repack fresh bearings without the race and add one to make up for the extra space? The threads on the cups aren't perfect, but i think they'll be fine.
So, as for a new BB: cartridge would be the easiest, but I'd like to stay with the old style to maintain the vintage look. Any suggestions for an affordable replacement?
Also, should I think about changing the spindle length, as I'm removing a chain ring and goinmg single speed?
Oh, and also, and suggestions for Portland wheelbuilders? Someone earlier in the thread said Sellwood...
Thanks for all your help, guys and girls.

Hey 501breeze,

I have a Sports Tourer that I am taking back to original look. Do you plan on keeping the reflector set (both wheels, and the front and rear)?

If you're willing to part I would sure be interested. Also, if you decide to got with a different crank, I would also be interested in the Nervar, as mine also has some damage, but to other parts.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

THEMONDIA (Mark)

Hard to tell what the condition of the actual bearing surface on the spindle looks like. I'd grab some new bearings w/ retainers (loosescrews.com / LBS / etc), clean and regrease what you've got and see how smooth things go together before giving it up. That is, if the actual bearing interface surfaces look and feel smooth to the touch. Only roughness I can see from the photo are the areas that don't really matter much (as long as they don't crack).

I'm planning to build my own path racer / clubman / etc etc style bike in the near future. Something fun and different, and this thread has certainly helped generate some ideas. Now just got to find the right starting point, err frame.

Hey again.
So I'm getting things together and can actually imagine the project being done in the forseeable future. The BB is pretty trashed, however. I posted an add in the ISO thread, but figured I'd ask here too. I've got new bearings, no prob, obviously. I imagine cups are pretty standard as long as they're English thread. My LBS guy told me that the spindle is a special French taper though, so I'd need a Nervar, Stronglight, or TA, to fit my Nervar cranks. Anyone have info on this? Or a replacement I can trade for or buy? It's 117 (mm i suppose?), but a bit shorter one would probably work too, as I've removed a chainring.
Thanks again!