Living Car Free - "This must be a revolution driven from below."

"Unlike in 1973, today's oil shock is not caused by the suppliers but by the consumers."
"Arguably the worst thing that could happen to us now is that oil goes back to $15 (£7.50) a barrel.

It would make us feel richer but it could rekindle our love affair with the car and its combustion engine, deferring more pain to the future.

The car - powered by cheap petrol - has been the love of our lives.

It is time to find another lover. "

From:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7486705.stm

Mainstream Media is reading like LCF crazies, keep gas expensive, give up your car, take individual action, whats next tips and tricks for getting around by bike? This forum will become redundant soon.

There is a good article on bicycles as part of federal transportation policy (http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002909986) @ CQ Politics: led is Obama meeting with Bikes Belong

"“It was an important coming-out moment for the bike industry in terms of political sophistication,” said Blumenthal, the executive director of the Bikes Belong Coalition, a nonprofit advocacy group based in Boulder, Colo. “Never in my memory has a biking event with a presidential candidate happened.”

He also reports that the upshot of the meeting in Chicago three weeks ago was encouraging: The Illinois senator told some 160 assembled cyclists — who included representatives of most of the nation’s prominent bike transportation groups, in addition to Blumenthal’s — that he doesn’t usually make promises, but they could count on his support." Bicycle Campaign Gears Up for Campaign Cycle http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docid=news-000002909986

This is my favorite part of the CQ article:

"The energy tax incentives package passed in February includes his provision to give bicycle commuters a $20 monthly transportation subsidy. A “green” schools bill passed this month includes language supporting construction projects that better accommodate bicyclists. The Amtrak reauthorization passed three weeks ago would set aside intercity passenger rail grant money to pay for bicycle racks on trains. "

To a degree this forum is preaching to the choir but what is the real point? Nissan indicates that EVs are right around the corner. I have feelers out for a Gem myself. But all we will be doing is changing one fuel or energy source for another. It isn’t likely to get people to walk more or even bike more. Gas prices have been increasing steadily since 2000 and yet bike sales have remained about the same. If it weren’t for all the Kids on BMX bicycles I think bike sales may have fallen. What has happened is the idea that if fuel increases people will flock to bikes. For some reason that isn’t happening and higher fuel prices are causing more problems that consumer transportation. Look at the cost of food and other transportation and see how that effects even people who are car free. Even the housing market is affecting our lives. I sold my Mountain home to move to a place where I could cut back on my use of a car. I took a pretty big hit selling in this market and that will take years to recover.

But what we need is a major transportation restructuring. In my State public transportation is close to worthless for up to 90 percent of the public. Stores, streets, and cities are not all that bike friendly. I just believe we need to step back and take a look at where we are going and what we are doing. This doesn’t sound as much like a time of revolution as it does evolution. I am just not sure what we will see evolving yet.

Robert - I have to disagree. The number of times I have been left on the train platform because there are already 40+ bikes on the train in the last month exceeds the number of times it has happened to me from 2001-2007. This despite installation of valet parking at the San Francisco train station keeping 150+ bikes off the trains on a daily basis.

Public transportation is not worthless in the Bay Area (which I assume is in California - heh). Close to 400,000 trips are made on BART, 41,000+ on Caltrain, 700,000+ on SF MUNI. The only reason it is becoming closer to worthless is that there is not enough room!

Last night it was hard to find bike parking at the grocery store. The rack was completely full and the convenient signposts were also full. At this store there are usually 4-5 bikes parked when I go, this time maybe 15. Maybe DC is different but there are a few more bikes being used for transportation this year than last.

Last night it was hard to find bike parking at the grocery store. The rack was completely full and the convenient signposts were also full. At this store there are usually 4-5 bikes parked when I go, this time maybe 15. Maybe DC is different but there are a few more bikes being used for transportation this year than last.

+1

I've seen the bike racks much fuller lately. I live in a pretty poor area, so I guess It would be the first to feel the effects of rising fuel prices.

[SIZE=3]Nissan indicates that EVs are right around the corner. I have feelers out for a Gem myself. But all we will be doing is changing one fuel or energy source for another. It isn’t likely to get people to walk more or even bike more. Gas prices have been increasing steadily since 2000 and yet bike sales have remained about the same.
Right now the biggest transportation issue for our society is the rapidly rising cost of oil. A switch to electric vehicles makes rising crude prices much less important. Without giving up easy mobility and with only minor lifestyle changes, electric vehicles provide an alternative to conventional gasoline-powered vehicles.

Not all transportation forms are equally effective in all situations. Cars work well where fuel is cheap and a good road network is in place. Transit tends to thrive in areas where parking is at a premium. Foot power and cycling work best in areas where travel distances are relatively short. The driving crowd won't automatically switch to other forms of transportation. Electric vehicles may be a good replacement or at the very least a transitional vehicle if conventional cars are no longer practical.

"Unlike in 1973, today's oil shock is not caused by the suppliers but by the consumers."
"Arguably the worst thing that could happen to us now is that oil goes back to $15 (£7.50) a barrel.

It would make us feel richer but it could rekindle our love affair with the car and its combustion engine, deferring more pain to the future.

The car - powered by cheap petrol - has been the love of our lives.

It is time to find another lover. "

From:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7486705.stm

Mainstream Media is reading like LCF crazies, keep gas expensive, give up your car, take individual action, whats next tips and tricks for getting around by bike? This forum will become redundant soon.


I still think in order for gas to go down, we need to have a glut of oil on the market. How is this glut going to appear when China is putting 1 million new cars on the market? How is this glut going to appear when India is putting tens of thousands of new cars on the market? How is this glut going to appear when everyone and his mother in this country is driving?

murphstahoe,
San Francisco and San Diego both have reasonable public transportation. That isn’t reflected in most of the other large cities in our state. The average commute in Southern California isn’t done by bike or bus or train. We have very few bus routes between counties and all you have to do is visit some of the automotive sites to see how they view this new problem. Their solution is simply to make smaller cars or drive hybrids. I like the idea of more people walking or riding a bike but I am afraid that isn’t the direction most of my fellow citizens are looking to go to.

According to published statistics one of the biggest years for bike sales in the US was 1973. That was 20 inch wheels and over. Bikes were inexpensive and just about everyone I knew had one. I agree this year will be critical in alternative forms of transportation and I have seen reports that bus rider-ship are up. But there are no new plans for light rail in our area now or any plans on adding bus routes. If we can’t get our political leadership interested in new infrastructure we could just as easily see the opportunity slip away as it has so many times since 1973.

Still our biggest problem may not be public transportation but rather the high cost of freight and produce transportation. There have been fuel protests in Europe and protests by Truckers in the US asking the government for relief. For many people the money being saved by limiting their own fuel usage is being eaten away by the increased cost of food.

I think we will see an increase in people using public transportation by the people who can use it. But if that same public transportation can’t service more bike riders than our buses can now people will lose interest and look elsewhere. I have seen it happen before and Americans are not into sacrifice of their lifestyle. I wouldn’t be surprised if motorcycle sales increase this year however.

To be honest I would rather your vision were the more likely one. I guess we can wait and see.

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]To a degree this forum is preaching to the choir but what is the real point? Nissan indicates that EVs are right around the corner. I have feelers out for a Gem myself. But all we will be doing is changing one fuel or energy source for another. It isn’t likely to get people to walk more or even bike more. Gas prices have been increasing steadily since 2000 and yet bike sales have remained about the same. If it weren’t for all the Kids on BMX bicycles I think bike sales may have fallen. What has happened is the idea that if fuel increases people will flock to bikes. For some reason that isn’t happening and higher fuel prices are causing more problems that consumer transportation. Look at the cost of food and other transportation and see how that effects even people who are car free. Even the housing market is affecting our lives. I sold my Mountain home to move to a place where I could cut back on my use of a car. I took a pretty big hit selling in this market and that will take years to recover.

I have to disagree with you about bike sales being static. We have quite a few bike shops where I live, and recently most of them have been really crowded. New bike shops are sprouting up like coffee shops used to do. People are buying bikes, and they're riding them, too. On any given day recently , I can count on seeing at least 50 other cyclists. A few years ago, I'd be lucky to see 5.

And I'm pretty sure EVs will have their downside, much as biofuels have recently, but to a lesser extent. If everyone starts plugging in their car every evening, what do you imagine will happen to electrical rates? And let's not forget that most electricity in NA is produced from coal, so EVs are probably worse from a climate perspective than cars that use gasoline.

I still think in order for gas to go down, we need to have a glut of oil on the market. How is this glut going to appear when China is putting 1 million new cars on the market? How is this glut going to appear when India is putting tens of thousands of new cars on the market? How is this glut going to appear when everyone and his mother in this country is driving?

We are living longer, that should be "everyone and his great grandmother". Never underestimate our ability to keep ourselves miserable. No doubt the next power source will come along before we get any respite from the car. Instead of dodging one Humvee it will be ten EVs (that we may not hear comming).

Ancillary examples are fine as far as they go but reported numbers might support a point better. I am just going by published numbers.

http://nbda.com/page.cfm?PageID=34 (http://nbda.com/page.cfm?PageID=34)

If you look at 2002, 03, 04 and 05 you will see the numbers were higher than 2007. At least for adult bikes. MSNBC and Treehugger are reporting higher numbers but they include bikes with wheels smaller than 20 inches. I think I trust the numbers posted by the National Bicycle Dealers Association more than Treehugger when looking at numbers that adult riders would be interested in. I am not saying that the bikes shops aren’t doing a booming business for this time of year. Fuel prices have been climbing steadily since 2000 and yet bicycle sales had slipped 1.2 million since 2005. And as you can see the numbers were flat in 2006 and 2007. Maybe it will be a revolution but it looks more like a spike to some.

As far as the US being willing to change energy sources to coal and atomic power plants goes, I think we have proved as a nation that when faced with the choice of energy or the environment our fellow consumer will take the energy however they can get it. Remember were in just about the same boat in 1973. By the mid 80s the F-series trucks were the most popular vehicles on the earth and almost all of them were sold domestically. While their 26 year position on the top of the hill my be coming to an end it should give us some insight into the desires of our fellow consumers. Considering that 90 percent of the American consumers will not even shift their one transmissions it is hard to believe they will be willing to give up motorized transportation for walking or riding a bike. I believe it is more likely they will simply choose another form of motorized transportation. This is not to say cycling will not enjoy some time in the spotlight. I for one ride almost every day and do much of my shopping on a bike. But even with the increase in bike sales when I was at Wal-Mart the other day the parking lot was still pretty full in the spaces closest to the doors and the bike rack was almost empty. At least they had bike racks.

Ancillary examples are fine as far as they go but reported numbers might support a point better. I am just going by published numbers.

http://nbda.com/page.cfm?PageID=34 (http://nbda.com/page.cfm?PageID=34)

If you look at 2002, 03, 04 and 05 you will see the numbers were higher than 2007. At least for adult bikes. MSNBC and Treehugger are reporting higher numbers but they include bikes with wheels smaller than 20 inches. I think I trust the numbers posted by the National Bicycle Dealers Association more than Treehugger when looking at numbers that adult riders would be interested in. I am not saying that the bikes shops aren’t doing a booming business for this time of year. Fuel prices have been climbing steadily since 2000 and yet bicycle sales had slipped 1.2 million since 2005. And as you can see the numbers were flat in 2006 and 2007. Maybe it will be a revolution but it looks more like a spike to some.

As far as the US being willing to change energy sources to coal and atomic power plants goes, I think we have proved as a nation that when faced with the choice of energy or the environment our fellow consumer will take the energy however they can get it. Remember were in just about the same boat in 1973. By the mid 80s the F-series trucks were the most popular vehicles on the earth and almost all of them were sold domestically. While their 26 year position on the top of the hill my be coming to an end it should give us some insight into the desires of our fellow consumers. Considering that 90 percent of the American consumers will not even shift their one transmissions it is hard to believe they will be willing to give up motorized transportation for walking or riding a bike. I believe it is more likely they will simply choose another form of motorized transportation. This is not to say cycling will not enjoy some time in the spotlight. I for one ride almost every day and do much of my shopping on a bike. But even with the increase in bike sales when I was at Wal-Mart the other day the parking lot was still pretty full in the spaces closest to the doors and the bike rack was almost empty. At least they had bike racks.
Thanks for the link to some hard data. One thing we're seeing on the streets is more use of preexisting bikes. In DC I'm also seeing more new transportational style bikes that were rare back in 2005, Breezer's and Euro style bikes or just with fenders and baskets. From the few friends who have pulled their bikes out of storage, I'd expect the bike shops to be doing good business in parts and fixups.

I have noticed an attitude change and as you can see by looking at what my bike looks like I have bought into a different style of riding than I did in the late 70s to late 80s. I bought a trailer and do much of my grocery shopping by bike. When I go to the store they no longer look at cyclist like something strange and lots of people ask me about my bike and where to get one like it. When making light trips just to get a few things I take my backpack and even the video store has been willing to let me leave it by the counter while I look around.

Before I get too excited however I remember there are no bike racks by any of the stores in the strip mall and only a small one at the Stater Brothers. Our Albertsons doesn’t have a bike rack so I hardly ever shop there.

Like I mentioned people seem very accepting of bikes and even more so now that so many comfort bakes have hit the street. People seem less likely to talk to you when you are wearing lycra. That may change in time.

The only real drawback I have discovered so far is time and heat. You have to plan your time very carefully and it is very hard to go out when it is much over 95 degrees. 103 degrees are almost out of the question. The only day I know I will have to drive my car is Sunday for Church. That is why I mentioned I am looking for a GEM. If I can find a used one like one of my neighbors did I will only have to use a Car for out of town visits or vacations.

Still haven't noticed any changes in transportation around here. My brother and I are still two of only a small handful of commuters in this town of 100,000. In fact, in the last couple of weeks it seems there are more cars on the road than ever, and drivers seem to be driving even more aggressively (if that's possible). I've concluded that the locals despise having money. *shrug*

Nissan indicates that EVs are right around the corner.

The electric car has been just around the corner my whole life. It hasn't become mainstream because it is more expensive and less practical than an internal combustion engine. And since a lot of electricity is generated using fossil fuels, that's likely to continue to be true.

The electric car has been just around the corner my whole life. It hasn't become mainstream because it is more expensive and less practical than an internal combustion engine. And since a lot of electricity is generated using fossil fuels, that's likely to continue to be true.

Yep, a lot of electricity is generated by burning coal. So electricity is not necessarily a clean power.

The electric car has been just around the corner my whole life. It hasn't become mainstream because it is more expensive and less practical than an internal combustion engine. And since a lot of electricity is generated using fossil fuels, that's likely to continue to be true.

I agree that we have been promised EVs for a very long time. They were well on their way in 2000 to 2002 when I believe the government dropped the ball by dropping their demand mandating zero emissions vehicles be offered. You might blame Toyota and Honda for getting them to accept Hybrids or you may say as the government did that hybrids are better than nothing but both Toyota and GM were producing Evs that were working at the time.

In fact New York had a fleet Toyota Evs that they bought to test as part of their city fleet. When they released the Insight and Prius the Evs from Toyota and GM were dropped like a hot rock. You do remember the EV-1. They wouldn’t even let the people that leased them buy them and maintain them. You can do a search on it if you like. That is off topic however.

As far as using other Fossil fuels to produce electricity it must be remembered that the US has a huge coal supply maybe more that any other country. Not that that is a clean way to go but look at the options they are suggesting in this election. If they discovered oil in my back yard I believe they would try and drop a drilling rig in my back yard by this weekend. My fellow Americans will forget the environment to protect the economy almost every time. I wish it weren’t so and I hope it changes but I am not holding my breath.

Many of the new bike commuters and shoppers feel forced to go to the bike. They'll jump back into the auto should gas prices decrease or an alternative become available. Only a small percentage will become committed to bikes as a transportation alternative. Part of that is the absence of bike facilities and infrastructure.

Only recently, Metro Houston added racks to their buses. Park and Ride buses stow bikes in cargo compartments. The number of bikes that can be carried is very limited, as is the type of bike that can be carried, so bikes are not an answer for mass transit in my city once to the downtown transit center. There is, however, more use of bikes to get to the P&R lots.

Many of the new bike commuters and shoppers feel forced to go to the bike. They'll jump back into the auto should gas prices decrease or an alternative become available. Only a small percentage will become committed to bikes as a transportation alternative. Part of that is the absence of bike facilities and infrastructure.

Only recently, Metro Houston added racks to their buses. Park and Ride buses stow bikes in cargo compartments. The number of bikes that can be carried is very limited, as is the type of bike that can be carried, so bikes are not an answer for mass transit in my city once to the downtown transit center. There is, however, more use of bikes to get to the P&R lots.

This is were folders really shine. I am currently working in the Charleston, SC area, all the CARTA buses (except the dedicated express buses) have racks on the front however during peak times they are always full. There are limited or no places to lock bikes up at the bus stops. A good folder can be bagged and carried on board. Unfortunately I don't have one yet.

Aaron:)

Still haven't noticed any changes in transportation around here. My brother and I are still two of only a small handful of commuters in this town of 100,000. In fact, in the last couple of weeks it seems there are more cars on the road than ever, and drivers seem to be driving even more aggressively (if that's possible). I've concluded that the locals despise having money. *shrug*

I thought it was just me. During the past few weeks, I've noticed car drivers being pretty rude to each other.