Road Bike Racing - SST Benefits

I've been slowly adding more SST to my training to raise my FTP. A while back I read how (I believe it was DoK and others) the new thing was long (90-120) min rides at SST.

How is this working out? Are people still using this? How often do you add this type of training to your schedule?

I know there is a thread that started a little while back that talks about SST workouts (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=412369&highlight=spot+sweet), however I was looking for some more info on how things are progressing for people in terms of benefits of SST.

My idea is to add a 90-120 minute SST ride once every two weeks, does this seem reasonable? This is along with 2x20 at FTP every other week as well, 5 min, 1 min, hill repeats, sprint workouts, races, etc. I'm slowly starting to remove group rides from my training and replacing them with dedicated intervals. I guess I'm just looking for some feedback.

Im still working my way up to long intervals like these. Finishing 80 minutes the other day felt like quite the accomplishment.

what are you preparing for and when is it?

what are you preparing for and when is it?

I am preparing for better legs :)

This is a longer discussion, but essentially I've noticed that my limiter is comfortably sitting in when the pace is high. In other words, when a surge occurs, I can usually hang on - it's when the surge settles that I notice others using that opportunity to rest while I'm right at FTP and not recovering enough. I wanted to raise that threshold Wattage to accommodate for that.

To directly answer your question, I would like to do well at the Paige Valley RR on Aug 24th.

edit: Some additional elaboration. I find that my NP for a crit is much higher than my TT threshold, by about 10%. This seems to imply I need to bring my FTP up to par.

I'd be interested in something scientific on this point. There is a chart, but it is not particularly scientific. I have no idea what the basis is:
http://fascatcoaching.com/training_tips/SweetSpot_partdeux.html

I currently subscribe to the theory of "pushing" and "pulling" to raise FTP. 2x20min (nothing like spending time just above FTP to raise FTP), 6 x 4min (again, an FTP puller), and then 60min or 90min ride at 85-90% of FTP, for the "push". In any case, lots of "quality" (intensity) and not so much quantity.
I still do a long ride once a week (90 miles) and will do more as I prep for a 45 day/4800 trip across the US, but personally I don't feel that soft pedaling at 75% of FTP does any good for getting faster/raising FTP.

I find that my NP for a crit is much higher than my TT threshold, by about 10%. This seems to imply I need to bring my FTP up to par.

This could just mean you need to get situated in the pack better. Ive found my wattage is signifigantly higher when I am in the back than when I am up front.

This could just mean you need to get situated in the pack better. Ive found my wattage is signifigantly higher when I am in the back than when I am up front.

Sure, hanging off the back creates the yo-yo effect and provides less draft. That is also part of my race tactics, to stay near the front. However, the lower FTP is exactly part of this problem - after the surges, when sitting in, I start drifting back because I'm at or near my threshold. I would like to improve my FTP exactly to maintain this position and still be able to recover from the surge.

This is just speculation on my part, but it just seems that since NP for a crit should approximate threshold, raising it to match would help. Finally, low FTP means low breakaway potential. I would like to improve that, become more well rounded.


... but personally I don't feel that soft pedaling at 75% of FTP does any good for getting faster/raising FTP.

I'm familiar with the SST articles, and I agree, that 75% of FTP is that "no man's land" Zone 3. I did 90 minutes at 92% FTP two days ago, that is the kind of SST I was referring to. 2x20 are not really SST, although some people call them that. They are threshold intervals, since it is at or above FTP.

I hear you no doubt. Im just saying I am pretty sure my w/kg is lower than yours and as long as I get a good start I can usually conserve enough energy by staying in the front to be prepared for surges and what not. If I blow it and end up near the back from the get go I am cooked.

I am definitely not trying to argue that what you want to do isnt going to help or anything. Higher FTP is definitely going to make stuff easier.

It's definitely a combination of the two, I agree.

Perhaps your w/kg is lower than mine, but on these relatively flat courses absolute power is king.

My results are all over the place this year, I can either be in the hunt on the final lap or out of the race in 20 minutes. I'm doing lots of 1 min intervals, and the Tues/Thurs RBC ride is a pretty good interval workout, so that is why I was looking elsewhere for answers.

I think the moral of the story is "keep training" and "there's always next year."

haha i hear that

never good enough is the moral i always get

What is SST relative to FTP in terms of power or HR?

What is SST relative to FTP in terms of power or HR?

You mean as a percentage? Most would agree that SST is a pretty narrow range from 85%-95% of FTP.

This is a longer discussion, but essentially I've noticed that my limiter is comfortably sitting in when the pace is high..

OK, here's my experience, a sample of one, so take it for what it's worth. I've been training w power and incorporating SST work for the better part of 3 years now. In years 1 & 2 I used SST and then added structured vo2 and AC intervals as I progressed from Base/Build Phase into Racing Phase.

This year I went a different direction, mostly because I changed my focus from USCF RRs to endurance events (e.g., 100 miles w 10k of climbing). I've added a lot of L2, and really emphasized SST, both on the flats and in the hills. Mostly 2 -3 x 20s, 1 x 60, etc. Rarely did I put in a session of "structured" SST that had me doing north of 60 minutes.

Over the past two months I've added vo2 and AC work, mostly by going on fast group rides that work that end of the power spectrum. The results that I have seen have been great. I was concerned that my FTP had plateaued at 280, but in the past month I've set a new high mark of 290. Over the past 45 days the group rides that felt really tough feel much easier, and I'm w riders on climbs that I could never stay with before, cranking out wattage I couldn't sustain before.

So again, I'm only a sample of one, but spending a lot of time (averaging >15 hours per week) in high L2, L3, and Low L4 have really paid off. For those that have fewer hours to train a higher intensity approach may be more appropriate.

kukusz, where are you doing these 90 minute intervals?

You mean as a percentage? Most would agree that SST is a pretty narrow range from 85%-95% of FTP.

Wouldn't that be zone 3/tempo riding?

I thought that was the no-no zone; too high for recovery, too low for real fitness gains.

Wouldn't that be zone 3/tempo riding?

I thought that was the no-no zone; too high for recovery, too low for real fitness gains.

antiquated

http://daddytypes.com/archive/black_flag_bars.jpg

I really had great results from SST this year. When I stopped busting all my test records, I changed to long intervals, and really got nowhere for 2.5 months. No loss of power, but no more gain. I'm about to start another build phase, and I'm going back to SST to see where I can go. I think I've got motivational issues with long intervals that limit my gains there, but I can hammer on various SST workouts just dandy.

Can you clarify what you mean by a "long" interval versus an SST interval?
I thought all SST intervals were long, by definition.

^^^^
I don't think of SST as intervals. It's not hard enough to be an interval, and I can do 60 minute SST rides day after day after day without limiting the quality of the next day's ride. For me, it's usually just going out and riding kinda hard.

For long intervals, I go out for a specific time, targeting a wattage that is tough to hold. So, for a 60 minute ride, it would be 2x20m intervals, for instance. If my best MMP for that duration is 358W, I go out targetting 340W or so for the intervals. That's pretty hard, and if I can manage anything close to that for both of them, I certainly can't do it again the next day.