Folding Bikes - NO bikes in Tescos

Well I take my folders in with me to all supermarkets (in trolley or strolling my Strida) pubs & restaurants. Been told to leave it outside a few pubs, I say "No problem, Goodbye"!
One landlady said " There are no thieves around here!" I explained that anywhere is only as safe as the bad, thieving, vandalising misfit that happens to be walking / driving past. She then said (pointing to guy at the Pool Table) "He always leaves his bike outside and never locks it" The guy in question saw her pointing and came over to see why we were talking about him. Landlady explained that she wanted me to leave my GoBike outside & that it would be safe like his bike. He looked at my folded GoBike and said "Wow! If I had a bike like that I'd bring it in too!"
But then again I've 'donated' 2 of my hard worked for folders to the light-fingered brigade.
While in Latvia, I never saw any tidy folders (other than very cheap, beaten up Klapprads) Maybe that's the answer, buy an agriculturally heavy Soviet klapprad and leave that outside when shopping.
Transit van pulls up, out jump a few guys, one with bolt-cutters, snip, snip, bikes in van, then on Ebay or Brick Lane, London!
I heard that Tescos said they didn't mind Sammyboy bringing his bikes in, as long as he kept his clothes on!!! LOL!

So totally disagree when its a compact folder, cant compare that to a 700cc bike lol! What is the problem with a Brompton for example? Anyway I'd bag mine if i really wanted to shop in any supermarket. Sorry providing racks doesn't mean Tesco are dacilitating customers with compact packages. This debate isn't about full sized bikes. No-one asked expects them to babysit bikes but they should have security who patrol the car parks and perimeters anyway with the amount of crime in some areas of the UK these days. It would hardly put a dent in the profits of each store in question. IKEA do this on their grounds.

Do you think Tesco should train their staff to tell the difference between a folder, a 26", and a 28" wheeled bike? What about when people with 700c wheeled bikes start making arguments similar to yours?

one time I was in town with a road bike

I went to the chip shop and left the bike beside the wall, at the edge of the big window.
the person said bring your bike inside as they'll steal it.

just seen that area on the news with a police man saying there having a crack down on crime there

Do you think Tesco should train their staff to tell the difference between a folder, a 26", and a 28" wheeled bike? What about when people with 700c wheeled bikes start making arguments similar to yours?

Oh come on Ziemas! When a folder like a brompton is folded up it is simply a compact package. People with large bikes have UNFOLDED bikes. That's where you keep missing the point time and time again. That's why folding bikes are allowed on most peak hour trains in the UK and larger bikes aren't. This is where the whole thread began from, what is wrong with a compact package being brought in? I even bring my Brompton into crosed pubs and put it under the table.

Are you saying my bike below can't clealry be distinguished from a larger wheeled bike? Some other folder have only marginally larger footprints. Can you imagine the space on this train luggage rack that a larger bike or unfolded pushchair would use up? Also i'd like to see you buy an expensive bike Zeimas and lock it up in London using one of those gold standard locks you mentioned. By the way they use long handled bolt croppers and jump out of vans to use them.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2292/2508542877_4a80f4728d_b.jpg


OH MY GOD TESCO HERE COMES A FOLDED BROMPTON BAN IT BEFORE IT CONTAMINATES YOUR MEAT COUNTER, KNOCKS OVER YOUR WINE DISPLAY AND FLATTENS YOUR CUSTOMERS AT THE CHECKOUTS! :p

Oh come on Ziemas! When a folder like a brompton is folded up it is simply a compact package. People with large bikes have UNFOLDED bikes. That's where you keep missing the point time and time again. That's why folding bikes are allowed on most peak hour trains in the UK and larger bikes aren't. This is where the whole thread began from, what is wrong with a compact package being brought in? I even bring my Brompton into crosed pubs and put it under the table.

Are you saying my bike below can't clealry be distinguished from a larger wheeled bike? Some other folder have only marginally larger footprints. Can you imagine the space on this train luggage rack that a larger bike or unfolded pushchair would use up? Also i'd like to see you buy an expensive bike Zeimas and lock it up in London using one of those gold standard locks you mentioned. By the way they use long handled bolt croppers and jump out of vans to use them.




Also Ziemas you never addressed my question about the lack of customer focus at Tesco.

Tesco doesn't need to cater to every sub-group with a whim to due what they wish, and bring what they wish, inside their shops. If they did this it would open the door for all sorts of crazy BS, so it's just easier to nip it in the bud. Tesco is there to sell you food and gray market jeans or whatever, not to cater to your fears about transport theft. I honestly don't understand why this is so hard for you to understand.

I have locked up expensive bikes all over the world, and I'd do it in London too. Where are the reports of ART Four Star and Sold Secure Gold locks being defeated with any regularity on the street? I have yet to see any evidence of it. I'm honestly interested, so I love to hear any evidence you have. I actually started a thread about it when the guy from the UK was spamming boards about how insecure all locks are and only his mates locks are good. Here's the thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=315837 If you notice the few folks who claim to have lost a bike due to a high-end lock being defeated either provided no details (could have been fooling around to skew the results) or improperly used the lock.

Here's a recent post on another forum by the fellow who was actually breaking all those locks.....

A quick skim of this thread has (thankfully) shown that no one has recommended a cable. Do NOT use a cable of any sort, even the armoured ones are easily cut with a large array of easily available tools. If you use a chain, wrap it round and round till it's tight, or twist the chain till it backs up on itself and starts to shorten. I have jacked three or four Kryptonite 3000's but only when there has been access for the jack to go in. If you fill the D section of the lock to such an extent that you are unable to fit a fist in there, then you should be fine. 16mm+ shackles can't be cropped, even with huge croppers (generally speaking), anything below, can. The main thing is to fill the D and leave as little room as possible.

I bought a 3000 today, totally gutted given the amount of the things I've broken in testing, but at least I know what the guts look like and what their strengths and weaknesses are, and I am more than happy to use one now.

Oh, did I say don't use a cable? Smile

http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12572955&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Tesco doesn't need to cater to every sub-group with a whim to due what they wish, and bring what they wish, inside their shops. If they did this it would open the door for all sorts of crazy BS, so it's just easier to nip it in the bud. Tesco is there to sell you food and gray market jeans or whatever, not to cater to your fears about transport theft. I honestly don't understand why this is so hard for you to understand.

I have locked up expensive bikes all over the world, and I'd do it in London too. Where are the reports of ART Four Star and Sold Secure Gold locks being defeated with any regularity on the street? I have yet to see any evidence of it. I'm honestly interested, so I love to hear any evidence you have. I actually started a thread about it when the guy from the UK was spamming boards about how insecure all locks are and only his mates locks are good. Here's the thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=315837 If you notice the few folks who claim to have lost a bike due to a high-end lock being defeated either provided no details (could have been fooling around to skew the results) or improperly used the lock.

Have you ever heard of marketing and catering for customers within reason Zeimas? Maybe you don't get it lol? You never answered my question why other shops allow it? Neither did you address the point about something small like the Brompton being so compact it isn't comparable to larger bikes. You simply keep restating why should Tesco bother like one of their execs towing the party line and how wonderful they are to provide bike racks.

I peronally know of several Brompton owners who have had their bikes stolen with the locks you describe. One couple with Bromptons locked outside a London theatre with a sold secure gold rated Kryptonite New York 3000 Lock How does that sound for you?

Please come to London and buy a £1000+ Brompton and put one of those locks on it and put your money where your mouth is!

I'm not on about opprtunists marketing rival locks Zeimas, I'm making the point that thieves break any lock and long handled bolt croppers or something with strong leverage are used openly in the UK to snap even the best locks. Even gold secure gold rated motorcycle locks costing more than £200 can be broken in under 1 minute. People just go by and do nothing and the police regard such things as petty crime. Perhaps in Riga it isn't quite that bad maybe?

Read:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/08/02/do0201.xml

If they can't smash the lock they will even resort to breaking the fixing it's shackled to.

Have you ever heard of marketing and catering for customers within reason Zeimas? Maybe you don't get it lol? You never answered my question why other shops allow it? Neither did you address the point about something small like the Brompton being so compact it isn't comparable to larger bikes. You simply keep restating why should Tesco bother like one of their execs towing the party line and how wonderful they are to provide bike racks.

I peronally know of several Brompton owners who have had their bikes stolen with the locks you describe. One couple with Bromptons locked outside a London theatre with a sold secure gold rated Kryptonite New York 3000 Lock How does that sound for you?

Please come to London and buy a £1000+ Brompton and put one of those locks on it and put your money where your mouth is!

They provide bike racks for Christ sakes! They have catered to their cycling customers!

How was the lock defeated?

I'm not on about opprtunists marketing rival locks Zeimas, I'm making the point that thieves break any lock and long handled bolt croppers or something with strong leverage are used openly in the UK to snap even the best locks. Even gold secure gold rated motorcycle locks costing more than £200 can be broken in under 1 minute. People just go by and do nothing and the police regard such things as petty crime. Perhaps in Riga it isn't quite that bad maybe?

Read:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/08/02/do0201.xml

So one one hand you are touting the tests done by CaptainCropper as proof that locks are rubbish, yet when the same fellow recommends as lock as being very secure you dismiss it. Which is it does he know what he is talking about or not?

I never said their was no theft, why do you keep on trying to convince me that theft exists when I clearly have stated that I know it does? You refuse to address the issue of high-end locks because you simply don't like the idea of locking your bike, and refuse to even consider doing so.

(CaptainCropper, who claims that 16mm U-Locks can't be cropped, and if there isn't enough space to fit your fist in the lock can't be jacked, is the same fellow from the ITV show who was cropping locks. You know, the one you touted as an authority.)

Calm down Zeimas. I keep telling you bike racks are useless in gerater London. Sorry Tesco do not cater for customers in my experience. I've live here and I've used them. Perhaps I know a lot more about Tesco's attitude than you might? Why should I secure a compact package like my Brompton to a bike rack when it is so inconspicuous to bring inside? Answer that question? Also why should I risk an £800 bike? Anyway as you say go elsewhere if you don't like it and I do. If I really wanted to I could bag the bike and they wouldn't know it, so i say to folder users jsut bring portable bag covers then they won't be stopped, simple as that. However doesn't mean we have to like the Tesco attitude does it?

Well my friends weren't there to witness how the lock was shattered and the police weren't interested but the lock was found shattered. They aren't experts on theft and lockbreaking. However I would have said the lock was eventually shattered by some kind of long lever placed inside the loop and significant pressure applied until it snapped. I guess you are a a 'doubting Thomas' who won't believe such things until they happen before your very eyes.

I'm not interested in CaptainCopper's marketing tactics although it's a novel attempt to gain attention. I have a had a bike stolen with a sold secure silver rating, a Specialized Crossroads £400 bike in 2006 so thanks very much I'll take my Brompton in with me whereever I can. And 99% of places let me in including restaurants actually. Usually ends up in a cloakroom or under a pub table as well. No problem! Tescos are Tescos, you can defend them all you want and their stupid bike racks. Wow they have bike racks aren't they great?!!! :D

No-one is asking Tesco to allow large bikes in or for that matter non-compact folders. I've told you categorically that there are plenty of accounts including personal experience and that of friends that high end locks do not protect us from the lucrative bike theft trade in the UK. We don't need Captain Cropper's self-promotion to convince us thanks! These thieves also go unpunished by the way even when prosecuted. It is treated as petty crime over here. Try telling that to someone who has lot a precious bike and their hard earned money even if it is insured.

Anyway Zeimas let's agree to disagree. I'm off to walk my Collie now, have a nice Sunday in Riga!

Calm down Zeimas. i keep telling you bike racks are useless in grater London. Sorry Tesco do not cater for customers in my experience. I've live here and I've used them. Perhaps I know a lot more about Tesco's attitude than you might? Why should I secure a compact package like my Brompton to a bike rack when it is so inconspicuous to bring inside? Answer that question? Also why should I risk an £800 bike? Anyway as you say go elsewhere if you don't like it and I do. If I really wanted to I could bag the bike and they wouldn't know it, so i say to folder users jsut bring portable bag covers then they won't be stopped, simple as that. However doesn't mean we have to like the Tesco attitude does it?

Well my friends weren't there to witness how the lock was shattered and the police weren't interested but the lock was found shattered. They aren't experts on theft and lockbreaking. However I would have said the lock was eventually shattered by some kind of long lever placed inside the loop and significant pressure applied until it snapped. I guess you are a a 'doubting Thomas' who won't believe such things until they happen before your very eyes.
I'm perfectly calm. It's you who has an emotionally based argument and refuses to address the facts.


Why should I secure a compact package like my Brompton to a bike rack when it is so inconspicuous to bring inside? Answer that question? Also why should I risk an £800 bike?
Because Tesco has told you they don't want your bike inside their store. It's a simple matter of respecting the wishes of others. You CHOOSE to ride an £800 bike and then piss and whine when people won't accommodate YOUR needs and wishes. If you are that paranoid about theft, and inflexible when someone doesn't accommodate you to your standards, then ride a cheaper bike.

Well my friends weren't there to witness how the lock was shattered and the police weren't interested but the lock was found shattered. They aren't experts on theft and lockbreaking. However I would have said the lock was eventually shattered by some kind of long lever placed inside the loop and significant pressure applied until it snapped. I guess you are a a 'doubting Thomas' who won't believe such things until they happen before your very eyes.

If indeed this was actually a Kryptonite NY3000 lock (which I doubt, as not even the expert you sited, CaptainCropper, could torque the lock open) this would be the first case I've ever seen of this lock being pried open. That being said, I believe you are mistaken on some of the details as. It would be great if you could provide more. BTW, did your friends collect on the ₤1200 insurance that comes with the NY3000 lock?

Temper temper! Throwing a tantrum because I disagree with you lol!

Believe what you want i have better things to do than offer up evidence and ring my friends for the full details.

For your information when places don't accept the Brompton, I don't have to like it but I just get on with it and frequent the ones that have no issues. Having said that it doesn't mean I can't offer my views on Tesco and sorry if i don't share your opinions. And yes I choose to use an expensive Brompton and I bring it everywhere with me inside and out for a theft free experience. They will have to mug me for it.

Actually I don't whine, I'm debating a point. Also you seem to miss the fact I do shop elsewhere and no need to get nasty is there now? My contributions to this thread end here, take care! :D

Temper temper! Throwing a tantrum because I disagree with you lol!

Believe what you want i have better things to do than offer up evidence and ring my friends for the full details.

For your information when places don't accept the Brompton, I don't have to like it but I just get on with it and frequent the ones that have no issues. Having said that it doesn't mean I can't offer my views on Tesco and sorry if i don't share your opinions. And yes I choose to use an expensive Brompton and I bring it everywhere with me inside and out for a theft free experience. They will have to mug me for it.

Actually I don't whine, I'm debating a point. Also you seem to miss the fact I do shop elsewhere and no need to get nasty is there now? My contributions to this thread end here, take care! :D

No one is throwing a fit; to say so is disingenuous at best.

Somehow I'm not surprised that you refuse to clarify what happened with your friends bike being stolen, pesky facts seem to get in the way of your emotional arguments, although you would be doing us all a great favor to clarify what actually happened.

No one is throwing a fit; to say so is disingenuous at best.

Somehow I'm not surprised that you refuse to clarify what happened with your friends bike being stolen, pesky facts seem to get in the way of your emotional arguments, although you would be doing us all a great favor to clarify what actually happened.

Well well you speak in CAPS and call me a whiner simply because I disagree with you. Sorry I don't share your view.

I already told you the lock was snapped open. Believe it or not ok? Now have a nice day I'm off to enjoy a good walk. As I said, we can agree to disagree. The NY3000 is a real deterrent to amateurs but it doesn't solve all theft issues in places like London where bike theft is now a professional theft business. it is also heavy and cumbersome. I'll stick to my Brompton thanks very much and shopping elsewhere than Tesco.

Oh by the way as for riding cheaper bikes:

Buy a cheaper bike use a cheaper lock. They get stolen by teenagers...

I'll stick to my Brompton :D

Well well you speak in CAPS and call me a whiner simply because I disagree with you. Sorry I don't share your view.

I already told you the lock was snapped open. Believe it or not ok? Now have a nice day I'm off to enjoy a good walk. As I said, we can agree to disagree. The NY3000 is a real deterrent to amateurs but it doesn't solve all theft issues in places like London where bike theft is now a professional theft business. it is also heavy and cumbersome. I'll stick to my Brompton thanks very much and shopping elsewhere than Tesco.

Now we are getting to the root of the matter......

EDIT: I don't doubt that your friends had a bike stolen, but I do doubt either the method used or the lock in question. If the flagship lock of one of the worlds top lock makers was to be defeated so easily word would spread like wildfire as it did with the round key issue.

Oh by the way as for riding cheaper bikes:

Buy a cheaper bike use a cheaper lock. They get stolen by teenagers...

I'll stick to my Brompton :D

Why would you use a cheaper lock just because you had a cheaper bike? Good security isn't dependent on the price of the bike.

I told you the make of lock and I'm not going to keep repeating it so doubt away! Perhaps I'm mistaken in the method used to break it as I'm no expert and don't pretend to be. I never once said high end locks were easily broken but when valuable bikes are targeted by professional bike thieves I doubt much can deter them except time expended and being scared off. You could be using power tools in public in the UK and most of the time no-one would bat an eyelid or ring the police. I really don't think you comprehend the rise in bike crime over here.

Here is some indication and this is just the reported amounts:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23425679-details/52+bikes+stolen+every+day+in+London/article.do

Oh come on !! Tescsaysno is clearly out of step here - even railway jobsworths know the difference

I told you the make of lock and I'm not going to keep repeating it so doubt away! Perhaps I'm mistaken in the method used to break it as I'm no expert and don't pretend to be. I never once said high end locks were easily broken but when valuable bikes are targeted by professional bike thieves I doubt much can deter them except time expended and being scared off. You could be using power tools in public in the UK and most of the time no-one would bat an eyelid or ring the police. I really don't think you comprehend the rise in bike crime over here.

Here is some indication and this is just the reported amounts:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23425679-details/52+bikes+stolen+every+day+in+London/article.do
I'm well familiar with the problem of theft in the UK. I'm also familiar with the fact that most people don't use high-end locks. You seem to skirt the issue of how and with what the bikes were locked. Thieves by nature are lazy, and go for easy targets. With 7.5 million people in London it's no small wonder that 52 bikes a day are nicked, especially considering how easy it is to defeat many locks.

Well you can refer to my Brompton pic above, it speaks volumes about how stupid Tesco are. In criticising Tesco we are hardly whiners :D In fact I'm very much the put up with and go elsewhere type but I always find Tesco have such an F U attitude to customers. I've admired Leahy's leadership in the UK over the last decade and their success in international markets but once they enter engage in corporate arrogance it stops right there. Look how they treated customers whose car engines were ruined by the fuel they bought from their pumps.

However I do agree with Zeimas that one can shop elsewhere and we are empowered to do so these days as we are no longer hindered by physical location in most parts of the UK with an excellent choice online shopping services and home delivery.

I'm well familiar with the problem of theft in the UK. I'm also familiar with the fact that most people don't use high-end locks. You seem to skirt the issue of how and with what the bikes were locked. Thieves by nature are lazy, and go for easy targets. With 7.5 million people in London it's no small wonder that 52 bikes a day are nicked, especially considering how easy it is to defeat many locks.


Ironically professional theives are not always lazy. They are logical, they choose the best paying bikes with the weakest security but will not hesitate to rob anything that is worth the reward and know only too well that they face little punishment if caught.

I didn't skirt the issue. I quite clearly said the Brompton that was stolen was secured properly to a bike rack in the West end with a top-end lock. Need photos as well lol? I can't really provide any more details.

Look i'm no expert but won't power tools go through any lock? And do you think many will bother challenging them in London? Futhermore, they get far more reward from the funds raised from stolen bikes than the punishments they ever receive when caught and even if they are then prosecuted.

Well you can refer to my Brompton pic above, it speaks volumes about how stupid Tesco are. In criticising Tesco we are hardly whiners :D In fact I'm very much the put up with and go elsewhere type but I always find Tesco have such an F U attitude to customers. I've admired Leahy's leadership in the UK over the last decade and their success in international markets but once they enter engage in corporate arrogance it stops right there. Look how they treated customers whose car engines were ruined by the fuel they bought from their pumps.

However I do agree with Zeimas that one can shop elsewhere and we are empowered to do so these days as we are no longer hindered by physical location in most parts of the UK with an excellent choice online shopping services and home delivery.

Whether I agree with Tesco's policies or not is immaterial. The fact of the matter is that stores have the right to decide if bikes are allows in their shops or not. For some reason many people seem to take issue with that, like they have a right to bring whatever they wish wherever they wish.

Ironically professional theives are not always lazy. They are logical, they choose the best paying bikes with the weakest security but will not hesitate to rob anything that is worth the reward and know only too well that they face little punishment if caught.

I didn't skirt the issue. I quite clearly said the Brompton that was stolen was secured properly to a bike rack in the West end with a top-end lock. Need photos as well lol? I can't really provide any more details.

Look i'm no expert but won't power tools go through any lock? And do you think many will bother challenging them in London? Futhermore, they get far more reward from the funds raised from stolen bikes than the punishments they ever receive when caught and even if they are then prosecuted.
Exactly, they choose weak targets. and 800 pound bike really isn't that fancy of one. Park a Colnago on the street overnight and I could agree with you that it would draw a lot of unwanted attention. Locking your folder up outside the grocery store with a high-end lock and chances are damn good it's still goign to be there when you get back.

Anything is possible, whether it actually happens with any frequency or not is another matter. You have yet to show that high-end locks are being defeated in London on a regular basis. We'd hear all about it if it were happening.

We don't hear about it Zeimas because people won't dare leave them out. And yes the £800 Brompton is an espensive bike but nothing compared to some high-end road bikes. However B's do have great resale value and move very quickly for cash in Brick Lane in the East End following an online Gumtree ad.

"Whether I agree with Tesco's policies or not is immaterial. The fact of the matter is that stores have the right to decide if bikes are allows in their shops or not. For some reason many people seem to take issue with that, like they have a right to bring whatever they wish wherever they wish."

I agree you with totally until the last sentence. I do not wish to do such things and neither did the OP I believe. You cannot compare my Brompton's presence to a large bike no matter what you say.

Anyway I do shop elsewhere and then the new Tesco superstore is built 0.25 miles away from me, I will continue to do so.

Apart from some compact folders I do agree that there are a lot of very demanding and unreasonable people out there but I'm not one of them unless I encounter exceptional rudeness or very very bad service. Interesting debate anyway.

Out of curiosity what is bike crime and overall crime like in Riga? Are you native to there or working in Riga as an expat?

"

We don't hear about it Zeimas because people won't dare leave them out. And yes the £800 Brompton is an espensive bike but nothing compared to some high-end road bikes. However B's do have great resale value and move very quickly for cash in Brick Lane in the East End following an online Gumtree ad.

"Whether I agree with Tesco's policies or not is immaterial. The fact of the matter is that stores have the right to decide if bikes are allows in their shops or not. For some reason many people seem to take issue with that, like they have a right to bring whatever they wish wherever they wish."

I agree you with totally until the last sentence. I do not wish to do such things and neither did the OP I believe. You cannot compare my Brompton's presence to a large bike no matter what you say.

Anyway I do shop elsewhere and then the new Tesco superstore is built 0.25 miles away from me, I will continue to do so.

Apart from some comapct folders I do agree that there are a lot of very demanding and unreasonable people out there but I'm not one of them unless I encounter exceptional rudeness or very very bad service.

"

Why would you deny Tesco the right to set their own rules inside their own store? Because it inconveniences you? Tesco can ban parrots from their stores too, so what?

Also, on the one hand you are telling me how many thefts there are in London, on the other hand you are telling me that there aren't any reports of high-end locks being defeated because no one leaves their bikes out. Which is it?

Very interesting. Stunning bike this. My Brompton would be safe locked beside this for sure :D

http://www.colnago.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=colnago&mode=single_c50_bike&image=djackson_extremec

So totally disagree when its a compact folder, cant compare that to a 700cc bike lol! What is the problem with a Brompton for example? Anyway I'd bag mine if i really wanted to shop in any supermarket. Sorry providing racks doesn't mean Tesco are dacilitating customers with compact packages. This debate isn't about full sized bikes. No-one asked expects them to babysit bikes but they should have security who patrol the car parks and perimeters anyway with the amount of crime in some areas of the UK these days. It would hardly put a dent in the profits of each store in question. IKEA do this on their grounds.

What part of property rights is it that you don't understand??? It's their property, it's their rules. They owe you no justification. A simple solution for you would be to start your own store. Then YOU can set your own rules. Maybe you would only like to allow customers that are carrying folding bikes.

Don't like the way somebody does business?? Don't shop there.

What part of property rights is it that you don't understand??? It's their property, it's their rules. They owe you no justification. A simple solution for you would be to start your own store. Then YOU can set your own rules. Maybe you would only like to allow customers that are carrying folding bikes.

Don't like the way somebody does business?? Don't shop there.

We were merely debating a point. My understanding is very lucid thanks! Didn't you read the thread properly? I don't shop there.

And as I said but I'll say it again just because a company sets a policy doesn't make it ideal or right. I've seen many companies lose business with such an attitude although i doubt Tesco will as folding bike owners who bring one shopping are a small minority at the end of the day.

Thanks for your insight. :)

We were merely debating a point. My understanding is very lucid thanks! Didn't you read the thread properly? I don't shop there.

And as I said but I'll say it again just because a company sets a policy doesn't make it ideal or right. I've seen many companies lose business with such an attitude although i doubt Tesco will as folding bike owners who bring one shopping are a small minority at the end of the day.

Thanks for your insight. :)

Folding bike owners who refuse to carry locks or lock their bikes on the provided racks are an even smaller minority......

Folding bike owners who refuse to carry locks or lock their bikes on the provided racks are an even smaller minority......Do a survey of Brompton owners and you would be very wrong there. I can't vouch for other folding bike users. Some of us buy folding bikes so we can bring them most places with us.

I personally only bring it to work and places it's accepted and I always ask permission in new places. I don't complain when it's not allowed I exercise my rights as a consumer. I'm sympathetic to the experience the OP had and I believe Tesco were arrogant in their response even if it is their right to make whatever rules they wish on such issues. I can still have views on Tesco and their policies if I so wish, that's the beauty of forums like this.

Ok so I am confused. Granted I haven't read this entire thread, but can you successfully take a folding bike in its carrying bag into the store? If so then what's the big deal? Does it need to be official policy that says "folding bikes in their carrying case are allowed in the store" to make you feel better about it?

I mean there are plenty of places in the world that allow folders onto public transportation, but require them to be in a carrying case (bag). There are also plenty of people who carry large bags/purses into stores.

-D

Ok so I am confused. Granted I haven't read this entire thread, but can you successfully take a folding bike in its carrying bag into the store? If so then what's the big deal? Does it need to be official policy that says "folding bikes in their carrying case are allowed in the store" to make you feel better about it?

I mean there are plenty of places in the world that allow folders onto public transportation, but require them to be in a carrying case (bag). There are also plenty of people who carry large bags/purses into stores.

-D

Totally agree :thumb:

"What part of property rights is it that you don't understand??? It's their property, it's their rules."


You're an American, right?

~~~~~

Ryanair had a policy of charging wheelchair users extra (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3449231.stm) for access. It was discriminatory and unfair, so people yelled and fought back. Sometimes 'rules' are badly thought out and unjustified.

Tesco's attitude to folding bikes is un-defendable, given its so-called green stance. Their corporate response to Mark's email was patronising, unjustified and arrogant.

Other supermarket chains allow folders in. If Tesco's don't, bike users will vote with their wallets.

Full Stop.

To add to this hilarious coroporate fubar, Tesco sell folding bikes. (http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-1808.aspx)


Just don't try and take it back to a store if it's faulty.

I hope somebody from this forum has the humour to email them this thread.

"What part of property rights is it that you don't understand??? It's their property, it's their rules."

Ryanair had a policy of charging wheelchair users extra (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3449231.stm) for access. It was discriminatory and unfair, so people yelled and fought back. Sometimes 'rules' are badly thought out and unjustified.

Tesco's attitude to folding bikes is hypercritical, given its so-called green stance. Their corporate response to Mark's email was patronising, unjustified and arrogant.

Other supermarket chains allow folders in. If Tesco's don't, bike users will vote with their wallets.

Full Stop.

To add to this hilarious coroporate foobar, Tesco sell folding bikes. (http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-1808.aspx)

I hope somebody from this forum has the humour to email them this thread.

Are folding bike users invalids who need their bikes at all times for basic mobility?

Are folding bike users invalids who need their bikes at all times for basic mobility?

No, but judging by your posts on this topic, some of them have trouble leveraging their IQ's into double figures.

"What part of property rights is it that you don't understand??? It's their property, it's their rules."


You're an American, right?

~~~~~

Ryanair had a policy of charging wheelchair users extra (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3449231.stm) for access. It was discriminatory and unfair, so people yelled and fought back. Sometimes 'rules' are badly thought out and unjustified.

Tesco's attitude to folding bikes is un-defendable, given its so-called green stance. Their corporate response to Mark's email was patronising, unjustified and arrogant.

Other supermarket chains allow folders in. If Tesco's don't, bike users will vote with their wallets.

Full Stop.

To add to this hilarious coroporate fubar, Tesco sell folding bikes. (http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-1808.aspx)


Just don't try and take it back to a store if it's faulty.

I hope somebody from this forum has the humour to email them this thread.

I did lol! It is quite an entertaining exchange at times.

No, but judging by your posts on this topic, some of them have trouble leveraging their IQ's into double figures.

What's up with the personal attacks? If you are going to make ridiculous statements comparing folding bikes and wheelchairs try backing them up with something other than bile.

Are folding bike users invalids who need their bikes at all times for basic mobility?

Now now Zeimas don't get nasty, I'm sure there are some users who are disabled on these forums, show them some respect. It doesn't matter if it's an analogy

I bring my bike everywhere in between commutes all over London. It means I avoid the congestion of the metro and get most places faster than any car, cab or bus. I have the freedom to enter 99% of properties. I'm actually very fit and the use of a folder is actually quite liberating rather than the means of 'basic mobility' you describe.

You can continue condescending rants with someone else. I've given my views on this thread more than enough.

Well said Snafu by the way. You summed it up very well. :thumb:

What's up with the personal attacks? If you are going to make ridiculous statements comparing folding bikes and wheelchairs try backing them up with something other than bile.

Personal attacks? After your comment above I'm finished trying to debate with you. I refuse to get drawn into anything but the issues in question. You obviously aren't very tolerant with views that differ from your own. Normally this is a very pleasant sub-forum. Perhaps you hail from another section of cyclists?

I'm out of this thread now.

Now now Zeimas don't get nasty, I'm sure there are some users who are disabled on these forums, show them some respect. It doesn't matter if it's an analogy

I bring my bike everywhere in between commutes all over London. It means I avoid the congestion of the metro and get most places faster than any car, cab or bus. I have the freedom to enter 99% of properties. I'm actually very fit and the use of a folder is actually quite liberating rather than the means of 'basic mobility' you describe.

You can continue condescending rants with someone else. I've given my views on this thread more than enough.

Well said Snafu by the way. You summed it up very well. :thumb:

Good for you that you like your bike. Comparing it to a wheelchair is completely disingenuous, and I'm sure you are intelligent enough to realize that.

You choose to travel by bike, your decision, your responsibility to deal with the fact that not everyone is bike friendly. People in wheelchairs have no choice, so accommodation must be made for them whenever possible.

Personal attacks? After your comment above I'm finished trying to debate with you. I refuse to get drawn into anything but the issues in question. You obviously aren't very tolerant with views that differ from your own. Normally this is a very pleasant sub-forum. Perhaps you hail from another section of cyclists?

I'm out of this thread now.

Yes, calling someone an idiot is a personal attack. I have my views and you have yours, of course, and people discuss those views on internet forums. Insulting me is totally unnecessary. Have I insulted anyone here? No, I've simply stated my views, as you have.

As I said I'm out of here! Have a good weekend what's left of it!

Wow! Left this thread for the weekend and look what happens!....

Right - couple of answers for people

Z - you are right, a shop can make any policy it likes and I can always shop elsewhere. However, the two closest supermarkets to me are Tescos, and both are a 15 minute walk, or 2 minute cycle ride (or on the way home from work). What I was attempting to get from my correspondence was the corporate company view to see if it tallied with the view of security at my local shop. It does, but for different reasons - security don't like my bike in case someone falls into it and injures themselves, head office don't like it because it is unhygienic. In my further correspondence, I attempted to explore the rational for this policy, but head office were extremely unwilling to do so. I felt that their policy was unjust and attempted to enter into discourse about it, but as you can see they weren't interested. Fair play, but Tube staff, Rail staff are able to work out the difference and I was interested why Supermarket staff can't.

I spend about £3,000 a year in supermarkets and I can vote with my feet and guess that I will do so.

Your point about bolt cutters is an interesting one and actually many thieves do go equippped with them. My mate had his bike nicked by a crim using bolt cutters. What they do is carry them in a big bag. They rest the bag on top of the bike and it has a hole in the bottom. They then use the cutters from inside the bag so you can't see them using them, through the hole and take the bike. I've seen CCTV footage of this - it took about 20 seconds before he was riding off with it and it was a sold secure silver lock. I have also seen one of the sketchy lads where I live with bolt cutters in the street.

Your point about locks is a good one - if you lock up your bike, it should always be locked with a good lock, a bad lock is a waste of time. My problem with a good lock? The weight. Not only does it have to be strong, but you also need something that will lock the front wheel as well - so you need a cable. Added to that is the fact that the lock doesn't easily fit to a MU SL, so I'd have to carry it loose. Why did I buy a MU SL? because it is light and I can carry it around. I put a lock that weighs a third of the bike on it and not only do I compromise the fold, but I also spend more time locking it up than folding it and carrying it AND I have to lug around the extra weight. I would also have to remove the seat and seat post every time to avoid the risk of that getting nicked and take off the speedo and lights.

I actually do have a Kryptonite NY3000, but have never needed to use it (although I will do I guess if I go to a Tesco!)

D - you asked why I can't put the bike in a bag and carry it round - I asked Tesco if that would be ok and they said no.

I'm sorry that this thread has got people upset - I thought it was interesting that the UK's largest retailer is happy to alienate a "green" customer (they give green points to customers that don't use bags) - and btw, there aren't cycle stands outside all of their stores! Of course they have the right to make up whatever policy they like, but I thought I would point out that their policy (in my eyes) sucks and that they haven't put much thought into why they have this policy.

Thanks for the well though out reply.

As for bolt cutters, of course thieves use them, they just usually don't lug around 25lbs 42" bolt cutters to steal bikes. There are just too many nice bikes locked with much easier to defeat inferior locks to make it worth their while. In any event, a 16mm shackle is too big for those cutters anyway.

As for carrying a lock, sure they are heavy, and no one really likes to carry one around, but they are just a fact of life in any city, as is the need to remove lights and a computer. None of this really takes much time or efforts, does it? As for the front wheel check out something like Pitlock locking skewers. Both my wife and I use them and have been very happy with them.

Don't expect a well reasoned response from Tesco; their policy is no bikes, and the moment they make an exception they are open to hearing from everyone who thinks they too should be allowed their bike in the shop, folder or not.

I take your point about locks - but the reason I bought a folding bike was so I could fold it and take it with me, having had wheels pinched in London, thankfully not a bike, it means I do not have to remove lights/computers, front wheels etc - it takes 10 seconds to hop of my Dahon fold it up and keep moving. To lock it up properly would take (a whole!) minute or so...

Interesting you should say about the pitlock skewers - I've actually got a set of those waiting at home to be put on - but unfortunately the Dahon has a non-standard front hub which means I can't use the pitlock skewer on the front.

Was a bit disappointed really in Tescos response - if they pay someone to be in customer service to explain their policies, you'd have thought that they could have come out with something a bit stronger than "we just don't allow them". I don't buy the "floodgates" point though - as I said, the Underground doesn't allow bikes on its deep surface lines, but does allow folders and this doesn't seem to be an issue.

I guess I think the point of folders is that you should be able to take them anywhere - other people have different ideas!

I take your point about locks - but the reason I bought a folding bike was so I could fold it and take it with me, having had wheels pinched in London, thankfully not a bike, it means I do not have to remove lights/computers, front wheels etc - it takes 10 seconds to hop of my Dahon fold it up and keep moving. To lock it up properly would take (a whole!) minute or so...

Interesting you should say about the pitlock skewers - I've actually got a set of those waiting at home to be put on - but unfortunately the Dahon has a non-standard front hub which means I can't use the pitlock skewer on the front.

Was a bit disappointed really in Tescos response - if they pay someone to be in customer service to explain their policies, you'd have thought that they could have come out with something a bit stronger than "we just don't allow them". I don't buy the "floodgates" point though - as I said, the Underground doesn't allow bikes on its deep surface lines, but does allow folders and this doesn't seem to be an issue.

I guess I think the point of folders is that you should be able to take them anywhere - other people have different ideas!

What is non-standard about the hub that you can't you a Pitlock on it?

What is non-standard about the hub that you can't you a Pitlock on it?

It's only 74 mm.

Thanks MROLI for mentioning that, as I am contemplating lockable skewers so I need to do more research now.

It's only 74 mm.

Thanks MROLI for mentioning that, as I am contemplating lockable skewers so I need to do more research now.

Contact Pitlock, they are very service orientated and perhaps can run some extra threading on a skewer for you.

Contact Pitlock, they are very service orientated and perhaps can run some extra threading on a skewer for you.

Ah, useful to know, thanks.